Liverpool Banter Archive December 11 2017

11 Dec 2017 23:47:43
My take on the weekend.
Its no good moaning about the line up, we battered them to be fair and on any given day we'd have scored 4, we didn't and you get those games so move on and at least we got a point.
Man utd got zero points as did Chelsea, Arsenal made no ground up either, so it could have been much better but seriously it isn't that bad.
The game, poor finishing did us more damage than the penalty, Mane obviously, plus by his standards he was poor, I personally thought Ox did ok, Solanke looked dropped into the wrong game and will learn from it, plus he had zero service due to so many behind the ball.
Lovren just why, its not so much the penalty as to me it looked dubious but to let the ball drift over your head is just soft again, Gomez looks strong, i really like him and it shows what commitment and hard work can do, it would have been easy to disappear off on loan, all credit to the lad.
Robertson will do ok once he's bedded in, he'll get games while Moreno is out so we'll see what he's about soon enough.
Subs were strange yet again, Salah was dangerous again and Mane was poor so take off Salah? He must have his reasons or is he just juggling personalities and keeping everyone happy? I dunno but it was a strange one, as was Danny Ings for me after so long out and to expect him to open them up when they were pretty solid, maybe the eds can shed light on if he's likely off on loan?
Henderson, he's definitely splitting opinion at the minute, me personally i like us better without but everyone has their own ideas.
Overall can't wait to see Gomez at cb, and id hope we can get back to 3 points with a strong line up against WBA
Merry xmas folks YNWA.

12 Dec 2017 03:04:08
Agree with most of your points. I personnaly think that even our u23 side could have bettered this everton team so no complains regarding rotation from my part.

It's not klopp's fault that Mane and Lovren did what they did. My only concern is his insistance with Mignolet (even Grabara is already better) and Lovren as the squad has better players in those positions. don't know many highly rated u23 defenders but they can't be worst than Lovren and Im not only judging by his performance against Everton.

The other thing I still don't understand is why Klopp picks Milner for CM, he can only play RB/ LB in our team. Then the back 4 can easily look like this : Milner (my pick would be TAA), Gomez, Klavan, Moreno.

Watching Robertson yesterday it's clear to see why Klopp doesn't pick him : he is too limited (not fast enough, can't dribble, can't cross precisely. ) . We clearly need fast fullbacks with offensive qualities as most of the time our ball possession surpasses 75%. And these days its very rare to see fullbacks with good defensive contributions. that's the reason why top managers just pick fullbacks with good attacking abilities (see what Guardiola did with City) . Moreno is very close to what Klopp wants (sadly he doesn't do enough in attacking positions) . However, he does very well to join the attack and recovers extremeley well.

I just wish Klopp doesn't complicate too much as that's the reason behind some wrong selections. But we also have to understand that the coaching staff spend hours of work to be able to select the team for every matches as it depends on many factors. It's very easy for us to name the starting eleven for which we don't even spend 5 minutes of our time.

Finally, I would like everyone to be cool abt the Coutinho situation. I strongly believe he will be still there atleast until end of this season. Even from an economic pov, his value can only increase during the WC so the club is in no hurry to sell. And please ignore the Salah to RM rumours. He will be here atleast for 3 to 4 seasons. We never sold any worldclass players this quick. May be Madrid will come with 300 milion in 3 years time and we still can have the same situation as Coutinho.

Anyway good to see that we can be 4th and still moan as it couldn't have been the case someyears ago.

12 Dec 2017 03:30:52
You are spot on with many points BXL Red especially Robertson and Milner. No complaints why Robertson would never play again! Milner should be at left back
If Moreno is out!
Keeping the left back in context, Do we maintain interest in Sessengon? He would fit in like a glue!

{Ed001's Note - why would you never play Robertson again? He can learn to improve his game and his problems defensively are fixable with intensive drilling. His weakness crossing can be fixed by coaching. I would stick with him as back up personally and try and work with him to make him better. He is very new to top flight football so he is going to be raw. At the start of the season Gomez and TAA were very shakey on the right, but both of them have improved. Moreno has come on in leaps and bounds. So long as Robertson maintains the right attitude I would say we should stick with him as Milner is no better and very similar in terms of weakness and strengths but slower and older.}

12 Dec 2017 03:49:46
Totally agree with ed001 on that, milner has played LB for us whereas Robertson has barely had chances.

Unless milner has improved that much in training which i doubt, Robertson has more of a chance to be better and we should stick to him if Moreno is out.

12 Dec 2017 03:59:49
I don’t know how, but my gut feeling, Klopp would look into buy a left back in the summer! If Everton and their bus taught us anything it’s full backs offering no width and no outlet for attack!

{Ed001's Note - Klopp is a coach, he can coach them to do that.}

12 Dec 2017 07:36:05
can a player be "not any worse" whilst also not being any better than another player? lol, can we just put a cat in a liverpool jersey to bring the change you all so crave and desire!?

12 Dec 2017 07:55:10
Spot on, Ed. OP, I agree with most of your points as well. I just wanted to add that Lovren did absolutely nothing wrong on the pen. I'll explain. Earlier in the game, there was a long ball that went towards Lewin and Lovren. It bounced and then Lewin tried to bump Lovren and win the ball off him. Lovren smartly got in front of him and Lewin shoved him in the back and a foul was called.

On the pen, I agree that he got caught underneath the ball and that can happen. The most important thing was he got back in position and was goal side of Lewin. What Lewin actually did was he tried the very same thing as he did earlier, jumped into Lovren to draw the contact with Lovren's arm up hence contacting his arms and then flew to the ground. That is why it is not a pen and Lovs did nothing wrong. Those giving him a hard time cos he is a usual suspect, should watch the play again cos I felt for him afterwards. The ref got conned, simply.

{Ed025's Note - you have to give it up you know guys, the whingeing on here by the kloppettes is getting cringesome, now im a klopp fan but his antics after the game were that of a 10 yr old girl who had her dolly taken away, you can live in a fantasy world as much as you want but that was a pen all day, 10 players out of the team are not allowed to use their hands and lovren did stupidly so he paid the price, did everton deserve anything from the game...no, but you shot yourselves in the foot and so now the whole world is against you, please show some class and stop acting like petulant children, the world does not revolve around liverpool FC and there is no conspiracy against you so its time to move on..

12 Dec 2017 08:34:45
As I said to my mate at work, I didn't think it was a penalty, but the rest of the world disagrees, so im probably wrong.

12 Dec 2017 12:56:22
When you see it from the refs angle it's nailed on. Move on.

12 Dec 2017 12:45:33
Everton played for the penalty. Ròoney said he had been practicing pens all week. Even when they went down 1.0 they still played the same way. Fat Sam knew that forcing mistakes from our defence is pretty easy and one long ball into the box and have your forward against lovren who always dives in to a challenge when no need clueless. It was a pen, soft yes, played for deffo. Good luck watching the bitters playing alehouse football every week, Ed25.The game was awful and liverpool should have won but to be fair to the Everton fans they have had nothing to cheer this season. I just don't want to see teams rewarded in playing that way. It's killing the game to be honest.
Happy Xmas Ed25 all the best mate.

{Ed025's Note - the thing that gets me yso is that mourinho played the same way against you but the pundits seen it as a defensive master class, of course i dont want to see us playing that way but in our position its a case of needs must, the way i see it liverpool blew it by not playing their strongest side (a tad disrespectful) and by not taking their chances, anyway good luck for the rest of the season and all the best to you and your family for the holiday mate..

12 Dec 2017 12:50:12
Ed25, you may be a bluenose but your head's screwed on right.

{Ed025's Note - as with every supporter there is a tinge of tinted spectacles where im concerned putney but i do try to see both sides, liverpool are miles ahead of everton in terms of ability and yes we did park the bus to get a result but at times needs must, we would have been mullered if we had tried to play expansive football against you so maybe its a compliment to you that we had to resort to hoofball and backs to the wall defending, you never know by the time we play in the cup we might have our formation sorted and players back from injury so there is a possibility we could have 22% of posession mate..

12 Dec 2017 13:20:07
I thought Klopps comments were pretty tame compared to some managers I’ve heard, with some even storming out of an interview after a match. Heat of the moment after the game, it happens. At least he shows a bit of passion. And why should these sky interviewers get an easy ride? Yes it was a penalty, a soft one at that. Seen them given and not.

You talk about whinging and whining Ed25, you should have tuned into Talk Sport yesterday, pathetic media sortsc, crying over Klppps comments rather than focus on the match discussion.

{Ed025's Note - thats fair comment drogie, these so called pundits love a story without it pertaining to the actual match, dont let the actual truth get in the way of a good story is their motto mate..

12 Dec 2017 16:42:24
Alrite Ed025 I thought Everton got what they came for on Sunday and no one can argue with that. Everton got a couple of breaks but that is football and what every team needs when not playing well. Liverpool had nearly 20 minutes to win the game and didn't create any half decent chances in the last 20 minutes. It was hardly last ditch defending.

When Liverpool are only one goal up after 60 minutes more often that not the match will finish a draw. Our biggest problem is game management.

All the best and Happy Christmas.

{Ed025's Note - it was certainly 2 points dropped as far as liverpool are concerned mark, the position everton are in it was always going to be a war of attrition on our part as expected, to be honest though as you say considering all the possession you had you never created that many chances and i cant remember pickford making any saves, but as they say mate...its a funny old game..

12 Dec 2017 17:42:07
Totally agree with Ed025 on this.

Definite penalty
Should have played strongest team for the derby.
Klopp needs to reign it in once the final whistle blows. The result will not change.

12 Dec 2017 18:05:30
Ed25, I could not be bothered who we dropped points to as the points dropped are the same amount regardless of who you play so I'm not hung up on whether it was Everton or not. Your lot was not that special. Also, Big Scam said a soft penalty does not exist. Good. I will keep that quote in mind when the same happens to him. Cheers, mate.

{Ed025's Note - it does make a difference when you live in the city brover bragging rights and all that but i know what you mean, sam was saying a penalty is a penalty and thats very true we all get some for and some against us but thats football, time to move on i think mate until the next installment..

11 Dec 2017 20:06:33{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Liverpool v Everton - A Liverpool Perspective

11 Dec 2017 20:28:01
Perfect review ed!

11 Dec 2017 20:43:26
It’s so nice to see someone saying exactly what I was thinking about the pen! Lovren has 2 arms, one on each side. Where is he supposed to put them when someone jumps into him like that? If he gets them out of the way the 2 bodies clash and he could risk serious injury! I would also add though Ed the speed in which the ref pointed to the spot was ridiculous. He was pointing to the spot almost before Tom Daley had hit the ground! He couldn’t wait to give it. I also agree about the amount of times that happens in a game. The Salah one you mentioned and also Solanke in the build up to the Mane chance. When bodies come together you naturally put your arm up to protect yourself. It’s a world away from a straight arm push in the back. Calvert-Lewin was shameful though but he got away with it so you could say well done. I hope his team mates aren’t giving him too many pats on the back though he’ll be flying around all over the place!

11 Dec 2017 20:57:42
Feel klopp needs to be better with his subs timing and players on/ off one area he lacks in yesterday clear we need a goal so should of seen counts and bobby come on for dom/ milner on at least 60mins get the goal then take Salah off but he sub Salah and ox off arguably are best attackers of the day. Subs are vital part of the game he needs to be better.

11 Dec 2017 21:10:08
So true about gomez, he's starting to look so classy. Everything just seems easy for him, very rarely is he gotten the better of by an attacker, his passing out is accurate, his attacking is visibly improving every game. Best of all for me is that he is still seriously fast but he so rarely has to use his pace because of his good positioning.

11 Dec 2017 21:10:55
Great review eds,

Having had time to think about the match, I have a feeling Klopp expected a war in midfield and put out a combative squad to deal with it, Can in for Ox would be our dogs of war midfield, maybe Can was under the weather but Ox is a unit anyway.

On a other note is Klaven the best buy of the season, does exactly what it says on the tin, 4 mill and for me our best CB (Gomez not in the mix yet)

11 Dec 2017 21:36:29
Totally agree with your view on the penalty, what annoyed me more than the result was having to listen to Danny Murphy and Alan Shearer talking nonsense about the decision and Klopp's team selection.

11 Dec 2017 23:10:59
Spot on Ed01.

11 Dec 2017 20:41:12
Spot on ed01. We should've won the match easily but form goes out the window in a derby for me, so it could've been a lot worse if that dodgy penalty was a winner.

11 Dec 2017 20:58:45
Another cracking read Ed. I'm a massive fan of Klopp but I think the selection was the key factor in us not winning. We dominated possession and were by far the better team. We know with our keeper and defence we have to score more than 1 goal to win a game. In our squad we have probably the most in form and firing front 4 in world football. Unfortunately 50% of that attacking force was left on the bench. A draw isn't the worst result but with the way Everton set up if the 4 had started Then I honestly believe we would have blown them out of the water by half time. That's my 2 pence worth anyway 👍.

{Ed001's Note - Firmino is struggling with tiredness, as we have seen a couple of times this season, and Coutinho is not putting the work in off the ball. I fail to see the issue with resting Firmino and leaving Coutinho out in a game that usually requires fight and graft over skill.}

11 Dec 2017 21:23:53
Good review again Ed1. Who is Tris Burke?

{Ed001's Note - great question.....}

12 Dec 2017 01:06:56
Hi Ed1.

Agree mostly except one or two points.

You have rightly pointed out Mane's mistake but it was the turning point as it had a huge bearing on the match. Thought you will mention his drama when fouled and also had his leg very high at one point but there was no contact. Looks he has not learnt from earlier incident.


Robertson is doing just fine. Once Coutinho came he tried to do all whenever he had ball in this game and in previous game. He does not trust Rob even when he is in good position and it was very visible.

Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - I don't believe Mane's miss was a turning point. The turning point was them getting to an hour still into the game and that was when Allardyce started to get them to push on a bit more.

Robertson I don't trust either. He offers nothing but wasted crossing opportunities. Every ball goes nowhere near a forward. It doesn't matter how much time he has to cross he never once picks out a forward. That has to change.}

12 Dec 2017 01:47:23
Good review Ed.

Also noticed Hendo ran the show so effectively in first half, they switch Rooney to cut out all his supply. I think that made the our play a lot less decisive in possession and we were not moving it as smoothly through the gears which made us easier to defend against.

My subs would have been Can or Gini for Milner and Firmino on for Solanke. If he wanted Coutinho on then Mane off. Easy in hindsight but we needed to add a cutting edge to score the second and put the game to bed, not take off Salah and Ox.

12 Dec 2017 06:06:41
" Who is Tris Burke? "

He's like Kaizer Sozé 😉.

12 Dec 2017 08:08:11
Spot on, Ed with your analysis as we had enough to win the game. I agree that the the lineup is a red herring and the media hacks focused on that cos well, you can't really focus on anything else cos we were in full control of the game and Klopp has been rotating to good effect in the last 10 games (7 wins and 3 draws) so what else can you bash him for?

However, I would like to talk about the Lovs pen issue. I agree that he should never get caught underneath the ball b4 it got to Lewin BUT you will agree that that type of thing can happen at times in games as it did with Gomez when Lanzini scored for WH. The thing is that tho that happened, Lovren made up for that and got goal side of Lewin and shut down any lanes for him to turn into.

The thing is that Lewin jumped into Lovren, drew the contact and flew to the ground and the ref got conned. I know people say that he should never have been in that position. I don't buy that as things like this happen all the time and the fact that he should not have been in that position does not negate the fact that Lewin dived and conned the ref. Your take?

12 Dec 2017 08:12:59
As I said I wouldn't have given it as a penalty but that is irrelevant as Calvert-Lewin should never have been in a position to throw himself onto the floor.

12 Dec 2017 08:40:50
Only thing I'd disagree with here is the comment that Solanke and Ox are not first team regulars. Solanke sure, but Ox has started 4 out of the last 6 including both of the biggest fixtures there (Chelsea and Everton) . He started slow but I think he now needs considering as an a regular, first choice, unsurprising pick in any game.

12 Dec 2017 08:43:47
Also the Hendo comments were perfect. He gets stick for no other reason than he is not Steven Gerrard.

12 Dec 2017 18:09:23
Hijkle, there lies the main problem that Hendo is suffering from. IMO, it has nothing to do with his ability or "leadership". It is cos he is not SG, as dishonest at that might be.

11 Dec 2017 19:08:42
I have to post this because it's really annoying me. Klopp will buy no one in January and I wish supporter's would stop saying we will sort it out in January. If Klopp buys a decent not even a world class CB in January I will donate € 100.00 to Ed01's favourite charity.

11 Dec 2017 19:31:08
any chance you can use this crystal ball you have to tell us how are season will go. FA Cup, CL, Prem?

11 Dec 2017 19:31:08
I haven’t heard anyone saying we will sort it in Jan and it’s not Klopp that buys players it’s the club. I’m sure he will have a list of targets in Jan, whether the club can and will buy them is anyone’s guess.

11 Dec 2017 19:53:17
Gotta remember the big thing will be not the club wanting to buy a player but that the player's club will want to sell mid season.

11 Dec 2017 20:33:52
Great. Make it out to Macmillan nurses. It will be a good start to the charity cup fund :)
(Vvd is coming )

12 Dec 2017 08:10:02
OP, is it possible that you wait till the TW in Jan is over before drawing that conclusion?

11 Dec 2017 18:18:42
Well done Salah. African player of the year. BBC.

11 Dec 2017 18:48:40
Great achievement for him and Klopp and his team mates should get credit for that as well. Now, this may explain why Mane has been so selfish as of late. He was in contention with Salah for this award and prolly tried to outdo him vs Spartak and Everton. If this is the case, I hope this ends here and both can move on cos our strength up top is our unselfishness. Once that is eroded, we are screwed and Klopp will not tolerate any of that nonsense.

11 Dec 2017 20:55:25
This was the first thing I thought when he didn't pass in front of goal v Everton. I turned to my mate and said do you think Mane is jealous of the accolades that Salah is getting, because he definitely should have passed to him. My mate said maybe he is.

11 Dec 2017 17:07:20
I don't think Mane was at fault yesterday for not passing it but he was at fault for not hitting the target and scoring it. How many times do players refuse to take the easier option and go for glory themselves. When a player scores no one cares if someone was in a better position. It wasn't long ago we were moaning about the chances Salah was missing. If Mane was doing this on a regular basis then I think he would rightly deserve the flack but I reckon this will make him a better player and his brilliance will be winning matches again.

11 Dec 2017 18:14:20
If I was Klopp I would be furious with him. Make that pass and everyone calls him a genius for having the courage to rotate in a big game and still getting the win. As it is it didn’t happen, Salah missed an open net with his header, and Lovren needlessly gave the opposition player an opportunity to look for a pen, and now Klopps getting a pelters for things he could in no way shape or form control. That team put out was good enough to win, should of won and should be ashamed that they let down Klopps trust in them. All this said, it happens and we move on. We are on the up and will get better. Bored of pointing out the failings in our team currently as we all know what they are, just hope they get sorted in the next 7-8 months.

11 Dec 2017 18:14:42
Congrats to Mo salah on his African Player of the Year. Beat Mane into Second place with Naby Keita also placing in the top 5.

11 Dec 2017 18:45:52
Congrats to Salah.

1. There is a time when you take it and when you pass it to someone who is in a better position and what Mane did was very unintelligent to take that shot.

2. He should stop some theatrics that he did when he was fouled. Yes, he was fouled by Everton player and he received a card for that but the way Mane was turning on the ground, I would have given an yellow for him as well.

Cheers.

11 Dec 2017 18:51:39
Mane was greedy. He should passed to any of the three players waiting. Maybe if you are 3 or 4 up and the game is out of sight but at 1-0 it was not the time. He should have put the team first before personal glory.

11 Dec 2017 18:55:49
That could explain why Mane was being selfish as he was priolly trying to win the award by upstaging Salah. Hope all is done now if so and we can move on cos Mane has never been known to be selfish until now at LFC. Do your job and we win. The day that stops happening then we are in trouble and Klopp can't control any of that on the touchline during games.

Jayden, I agree with you on the Mane issue to some extent. In that position, if you don't square it, YOU'D BETTER SCORE cos if you don't, this is what happens and you will get the blame. He put himself in that position and is getting the business as he should cos our front line is great cos of it's unselfish attitude. Cou, Bobbie or Salah would have squared that ball. All in all, we live, learn and move on to WBA which will be another tough nut to crack.

11 Dec 2017 19:27:24
Gents I'm not saying what he did was right. Personally I believe he should have passed it as well but he took the gamble (as a lot of forwards would have) and it didn't come off. Some of our players are mercifully defended after years of mistakes and below average performaces. Over the last year and a half Mane has been one of if not our best player. Hopefully he's learnt the error of his way.

12 Dec 2017 08:11:58
Spot on, Jay. Mane has been great for us and his mess-up will never change that fact. Hopefully, he learns from this and we can move on as he is a great player and I would not swap him for anyone else in the PL.

11 Dec 2017 13:21:03
On a positive note. These days everyone loses their minds when we draw a game :-)

11 Dec 2017 13:34:19
Which is the sign of an ambitious fan! I am not happy with a draw nor I am satisfied to be an Arsenal!

11 Dec 2017 13:41:15
I see what you did there, Fitzy. Seems things are starting to change and we currently go into games expecting to win and that is down to the mentality that Klopp is instilling into the boys. There are times when it does not work BUT we know we are capable of winning games. Consistency is what we are trying to master now, slowly but surely, we'll get there.

11 Dec 2017 13:44:11
Or the sign of progress. To your point nobody is satisfied with the result, but there is a way to express yourself in a way where you don't come across as bashing the team, and people who accept the draw as a draw and are not complaining as much as you.

11 Dec 2017 14:07:21
Waqas a tean needs bashing if they deserve it. Yes it is more positive sign that we as fans are not happy with a draw. the most disapointing thing for me is firstly playing much better than our opposition and not getting the desired result and repeating that same mistake every 4-5 games. secondly fans being happy getting a point at home to a piss poor team and losing the perfect oppurtunity to gain some extra points on our rivals when they all dropped points. I feel a lot of Lfc fans have got use to the mediocracy and are happy just not to lose the game.

11 Dec 2017 14:14:20
Fitzy, the problem is that the draws are coming too often, yes we are improving, but a million miles away from winning the Premiership .

11 Dec 2017 14:31:01
Again nobody is satisfied with it! not complaining doesn't mean satisfaction, it means not complaining.

11 Dec 2017 14:33:26
we are not a million miles from a title. we are a cb and gk away from a challenge. Everyone is miles off city and I think we are the 2nd best side in the league.

I feel mane is living in salah shadow, last year he would have passed and we would have won the game easy. Klopp has learned from last season and he has rested key players, I think we will have a strong 2nd half of the season and make ucl again.

11 Dec 2017 14:43:10
i am enjoying seeing klavan play well, he looks one of the best cbs in the league atm.

11 Dec 2017 14:57:11
........deleted...............

{Ed002's Note - I am just about at the point of removing you from the web site with your persistant attacks on other posters - it needs to end immediately.}

11 Dec 2017 15:38:19
Fitzy - we have 6 draws now this season and that's just in the PL. That's the worst Everton side I have witnessed at Anfield in years and we should have breezed past them.
You just can't legislate for errors like that. I feel that if we don't find a replacement for Lovren in January then his mistakes will cost us in the PL and also the CL.
How many more mistakes will Klopp allow him to get away with before he sees what everyone else is seeing,

11 Dec 2017 19:02:41
Hi Supermane.

I think he sees it tbh. I also believe he decided last summer that what he had could get him back into the CL places. There were a few players he wanted that would bring his squad to a level of really challanging for the PL and CL. He didn't get them and so decided to wait rather than spending money on a player (s) going onto 5 year contracts that were not all that much better than he already had. Like it or not most top players don't yet see Liverpool as re established as a top European side. So we can't get them. When one comes along that could go to the top clubs but wants to come to Liverpool/ Klopp he will save his budget and wait for them (Keita, VVD) and take the flack in the mean time.
I've said it on here a few times. After 3 Summer transfer windows it will be Klopps team and all can judge him then. We can't buy a new team in a couple of windows like some of those we compete with. He must be patient and so should we, But he is getting there.

The start of the season was distrupted significantly. They are now on track. We will finish 2nd and won't fear anyone in the CL. Progress overall. YNWA.

11 Dec 2017 19:48:39
So Supermane, do you think we should ditch Mane for his mistake? Or Salah for his? They were to blame for that yesterday just as much as Lovren. Mane probably more so. I’m not Lovren’s biggest fan but he was unlucky with that yesterday. The kid’s stepped in front of him and slowed to get contact before Tom Daleying it with a triple Pike and nailed the landing!

11 Dec 2017 20:55:16
Ings
Lovren clumsily barged towards CL, raised his hands and put those hands on his back giving him an excuse to go down - an experienced international defender should know better
Call him clumsy at best incompetent at worst
Is this Lovrens first mistake
Have you forgotten Spurs
Penalty v Hoffenheim
He is a disaster waiting to happen.

11 Dec 2017 12:56:57
FC Porto on the CL draw. Not bad at all.

This end of the competition there are certainly no easy games but there are some easier than others and Porto falls into that pot.

Long wait until February now for the 1st tie, let's make sure we firm up a league position between now and then over a busy festive period 🤙🏼.

11 Dec 2017 13:44:38
With you there, NK. Full focus should be on the PL for now ans we are picking up points of late with 17 taken out of 21 since the Spurs disaster. That shows our ability to bounce back and credit to Klopp and his squad for getting it done. A long way to go but there is more hope now than after the Spurs game. An unfortunate draw vs Everton changes none of these facts, all of which are positives.

11 Dec 2017 14:50:54
I keep forgetting keita is coming next year. what a team we will have.

11 Dec 2017 15:25:00
......

{Ed002's Note - I think you posted this against the wrong thread.}

11 Dec 2017 11:18:36
Good morning chaps.

Just like to say thanks for the selection Ed002.

I feel I have more weight on my shoulders making sure I don't let you down than I have in my current job! I promise not to let you down in defence!

Oh and I do have welsh heritage, partly because I'm welsh ;)

Come on Redmen cheer up.

Merry Christmas to all Ed's and Reds! Enjoy the holidays.

{Ed002's Note - Thanks.}

11 Dec 2017 13:09:19
I will try not to embarrass you to much on the day smplfc :)

11 Dec 2017 14:16:20
big ups my welsh bois out there, put the welsh pirlo sorry Joe Allen to shame out there.

11 Dec 2017 17:00:05
Come on Welshmen.

11 Dec 2017 12:12:22
Yesterday was the first match I’ve seen in a while after being away and, whilst the result was disappointing, it was a fascinating match.

Hindsight makes us all seem like geniuses but there was an air of hubris in Klopp’s team selection. I’ve long believed that Klopp has a level of arrogance in him, a belief that his ideas are better than everyone else’s (see his reaction to being told in the post match interview that the interviewer and pundits agreed with the penalty decision), his team selection reflected that. Liverpool’s recent (excellent) form convinced Klopp that he could pick any team and things would be fine. It’s easy to question Milner’s selection but the bigger question is Solanke. Solanke has tremendous good will at the moment but a lot of fans have expectations of the player which aren’t really justified by anything he’s in done in a red shirt so far. Yesterday he was ineffective, he wasn’t creating anything himself and he wasn’t making space for our other players. This was a real problem as Allardyce’s team was doing exactly what was expected, they played deep with great discipline and Solanke wasn’t capable of troubling them. For all our domination of play Salah’s goal was the only time we put Pickford under pressure, he had an easy day at the office.

As for Allardyce he set up exactly as we all expected and he was rewarded with a point for it, why he doesn’t get more respect for being so good at what he does I’ll never know. The penalty was Everton’s only chance to score but when a game plan is built around taking limited chances then you have to give the away team credit. A lot of people are making excuses about that penalty but it was the correct decision to give, it doesn’t matter if the lad went down easy or not, it matters what Lovren did and his actions gave Calvert-Lewin an excuse to go down. If the penalty hadn’t been given it would have been a case of Lovren getting away with it rather than the correct result.

As for the rest of the team I thought Gomez had an excellent game, the limited defending he had to do was excellent and his play going forward was dynamic. At the start of the season fans were excited by TAA but Gomez is leagues ahead of his rival at the moment. I was surprised to see people having a go Henderson, he had an good game, what his detractors fail to understand is that he’s doing the job that Klopp wants him to do rather than the one fans want. He is there to recycle possession and he is hugely reliable in that role. He’s got the ability to burst forward or to go for the killer pass but that’s not his job. I was pleased to see Ings get a run out, it will be interesting to see if that was a ‘putting him in the shop window’ exercise or whether Klopp is bringing him into the first team, on paper he's the perfect understudy to Bobby.

What we mustn’t forget is that we’ve been excellent since the Spurs game, we’re unbeaten, we’ve dragged ourselves up the table and, on current form, we’re the best of the rest after City. As I alluded to above, I do have some problems with Klopp but I do believe that when he gets it right Liverpool are sensational, sadly yesterday wasn’t one of those times.

11 Dec 2017 12:31:53
if mane had passed when he had 3 players free, we go in 2-0 up and kloppps line up never gets questioned, his only mistake was bringing off salah imo.

11 Dec 2017 12:40:25
Putney, you are using the very same hindsight reasoning you are criticizing. Klopp has been rotating for weeks now and it has worked and the results bear that out. So if that is the case, my question for you is was he arrogant when he was doing this rotation thing then or was he arrogant now cos both of those cannot be true at the same time?

Also, all managers are arrogant even those who haven't won a sausage to their name. Pep, Mou make Klopp like a choir boy in the arrogance dept. as they apologize for nothing BUT when Klopp seems arrogant, some start getting triggered and insecure. There was NO arrogance in his selection as he picked the team he knew was fresh and ready to give 100% in the game as it was a rivalry game and you cannot keep fielding the same team during this busy period as Conte has realized after his loss vs WH. So if Conte was moaning about tiredness, by that standard, Klopp was right to rotate so as to mitigate against that, right or do the rules change cos it is Klopp?

Also, Had Everton battered us then your point would be valid. They did not so it is not. We were on top from start to finish and would have been out of sight had mane not done a boo-boo. The lineup had nothing to do with Mane having a boo boo. The lineup had nothing to do with a ref getting conned by a diving player. Those for me, were the two facts that influenced the game. Not the lineup or any arrogance (or lack thereof, IMO) .

11 Dec 2017 12:42:07
Putney, it may seem churlish after your excellent post but I never thought I would see the words "Henderson" and "burst" in the same paragraph.

11 Dec 2017 12:50:11
I don't believe Klopp is in anyway responsible for yesterday's result. The team he picked blew Everton away, and other than scoring more and conceding a ridiculous penalty that was an absolute walk in the park.
There are players at the club who need replacing to take us to the next level. I'm not klopps biggest fan, not by a long way but his players decisions are costing him severly.

11 Dec 2017 13:09:42
I think the decision to play dominic solanke was the most logical. He is a tall target man. When you play a deep lying defence you need a target man to aim crosses at. Solanke played well and showed good touches but the crosses into him weren't great. The midfield was a problem for me. I love Henderson and he played well. Milner didn't offer much and Oxlade is ok but I would not trust him to be the creative force in the midfield. Countinho should have been given that role and Can in for Milner but it's Klopp's decision and maybe he just wanted to rest players to keep them fresh. I agree you should not be doing this against your rivals though.

11 Dec 2017 13:14:47
" I don't believe Klopp is in anyway responsible for yesterday's result. "

Sorry, you're wrong, the manager is responsible for all the results, that's his main responsibility.

11 Dec 2017 13:16:35
Hi all, thanks for all your responses. To expand on your points.

I didn't mention the Mane chance as I think it's less relevent than most people are making out. If he'd passed it was by no means a guaranteed goal. I prefer to talk about what did happen rather than what might have happened.

As for whether Klopp was responsible for the result I have no doubt he was. The selection was wrong, the set up was wrong and the substitutions we wrong. If we'd got a result of would have been in spite of Klopp's plan rather than because of it.

11 Dec 2017 13:28:06
Brover, to respond to you directly. My hindsight quip was just banter, Klopp's selection was questioned heavily before the game and the result showed that questioning was justified. Klopp wasn't arrogant to rotate, he was arrogant in who he chose to rotate. Allardyce would have been delighted to see Solanke brought in and, whilst I know he can't play every match, we sorely missed Coutinho's threat from deep.

I believe your wrong about Pep and Mourinho, I think their self belief is born out by their trophy cabinets, Klopp can't say the same. When I get time I'll write a post about Klopp and how sometimes's he's his own worst enemy.

Your also wrong that we were on top all match. We had all the possession but that's a different thing. Football's about scoring goals and we had few opportunities to do that. On balance we were better than Everton but we didn't batter them.

11 Dec 2017 14:29:04
Thank you for your response, Putney. First of all, Cou had a knock and was not fit to start that game so there is that. You may think the selection was wrong BUT I disagree cos as I mentioned, Conte moaned about his boys being tired during their loss to WH so is it not rotation that could mitigate against all that? Also, Klopp has been rotating for weeks and to great success so again, was he right for rotating when it worked or was he wrong when on the odd case now, it did not? You did not answer that question which I don't mind as logically, both those statements cannot be right at the same time.

As for the arrogance thing, you may be right on one level BUT like it or not, Klopp has won trophies in his career against all odds, beating Bayern to win leagues and Cups and his way of playing got him the reputation he deserves. No one gave him a damn thing. He earned it from scratch. Klopp had the likes of Arsenal, Bayern, Real (rumours) and the great Man Utd wanting him and he rejected all of them including Fergie. You don't get those clubs after you if you do not have the resume and trophies to boot. You cannot belittle his resume just to make your argument sound better. That is unfair.

Those managers you mentioned respect him a whole lot (you should hear how Pep talks about Klopp) as he is the one who has beaten each of them the most. So why can he not be arrogant and believe in his methods cos they have actually worked for his career? My issue is that you claim he is arrogant and I disagree and shown why.

Pep and Mou have have rarely apologized for a things they say to the media no matter how ridiculous it is BUT Klopp does apologize cos he is an honorable man and has no grudges with anyone (listen to Ralph Honigstien who has chronicled Klopp's career) . Do not conflate that with him not being arrogant as every manager to some extent, is. Love your post, Putney. keep them coming.

11 Dec 2017 14:35:24
in my opinion, Kloppy was arrogant in that he made six changes to the line up,
there were as we all know two Derbies yesterday, how many changes did the other three managers make, he changed our midfield way too much, Big Sam must have been smiling when he saw our team selection,
Kloppy, makes far too many basic errors,
yes I fully understand rotating players, keeping the team fresh, I saw a stat that says Kloppy has made the most changes in the Prem,
not being from England, I think that he does not realise how important winning the Derby means to the fans,
for me Kloppy will not win us the League, he will get us as high as third place, that's all .

11 Dec 2017 15:47:15
Nailed it in one redhead.

11 Dec 2017 19:12:09
Happy, Klopp made it a policy to rotate during this busy period and it has worked. The mistake you are making is that you are too hung up on The derby and what it means to the fans which I sense, you are prolly implying that he did not play his best team cos he looked past Everton. Klopp has feasted on Everton since he arrived here and he is not about to risk the team's future this season to prove a point that he cares about this or that game.

Klopp expects to win every game regardless of the team he put out. It may look wierd to the fans BUT to him in the end, beating Everton and not making top 4 will do us no good. The team he put out was good enough to win and created enough chances to win as Everton were dire. Mane fluffed his lines and the ref got conned itno giving a poor excuse of a penalty. The lineup did not influence any of those facts so it is just a false narrative in my book. Mane squares the ball, 2-0 and the penalty is a none issue. Do the job and we are home and dry. Mane did not do that so here we are. Cheers, mate.

11 Dec 2017 11:17:21
Hi Ed001, has a match review been uploaded yet? Also, cheers for the match selection!
i think the penalty decision was right, albeit a soft one, but whether or not it was a penalty I don't think is the issue. Lovren should not even be giving he ref the option of awarding a penalty, you just cannot put your hands on a player in the box like that. I think the ref didn't have the best view, but seeing a raised hand convinced him. As for Mane, yes, it was a stupid decision not to cross, but those saying the draw was his fault is ridiculous. What about Gomez's header, yes was a difficult;t one, but it was a chance. Salah's header, which, for me, he should have put away all day.
We can't just analyse single players and blame them, the whole team had enough to kill the game but couldn't, we all knew how Sam would set up and he always sets teams up to not concede (hence why Pickford is now my fantasy GK! ) . I think Klopp got the team selection wrong from the off and the team failed to take their chances, you just don't bench a player who has just scored a hat trick in the previous game!

{Ed001's Note - not yet, just doing it now, it is a difficult one to do mate.}

11 Dec 2017 11:46:39
Cheers Ed, looking forward to reading your thoughts on the game.

11 Dec 2017 12:42:42
Thanks, Ed. I would like your opinion on the penalty incident as well.

{Ed001's Note - it will be there.}

11 Dec 2017 14:44:34
Stuie, the Ref had a very good view of the Pen incident, what he saw was the Everton player taking a touch of the ball, but the ball going away from the goal,
then he saw Lovren being sucked into making a challenge that he did not have to make, Everton were only going to score from a Pen, their player suckered Lovren,
yes it was a soft Pen, but I would say that Lovren took the worst option, and he will never live that down .

{Ed001's Note - Lovren never made a challenge.}

11 Dec 2017 16:27:00
I disagree Happy, from the viewing angle the ref had, i think he just saw Lovren raise a hand to the attackers back and then seen him fall. But like i said, it is not the sole reason we drew the game in my opinion.

11 Dec 2017 19:17:07
Happy, Lovren did not make a challenge as Lewin jumped into him to draw the contact so how can you blame him for what he did not do? Mind you, Lewin did the exact same thing earlier in the game BUT Lovren got in front of him and ended up shoving him in the back. The "Can't lay a hand on the back" is a non issue as there is no rule saying you cannot make contact with a striker in the box as that happens all the time. Jesus got contacted vs Utd and flopped the same way Lewin did in the box and the ref ignored him. By that logic, Jesus should have had a penalty, right? Lovren had his hands up, Lewin jumped into him and conned the ref. That is it, IMO.

11 Dec 2017 10:29:02
Klopp dropped the ball yesterday making too many changes. As for Lovern the less said the better. Anyway here's to the Champions league draw.

11 Dec 2017 12:44:41
Klopp has been making changes for weeks now and it has worked. BUT let's throw all out the window cos we did not win a game where we dominated cos of those many changes as the team was fresh. Scapegoating is becoming a boring exercise and frankly, we learn nothing from it.

11 Dec 2017 10:49:13
It's just sad how Salah gave us the chance to get 3 points against Chelsea and Everton on his own but the rest of squad failed to maintain it.

11 Dec 2017 12:48:29
Still moaning, I guess.

11 Dec 2017 12:57:09
In fairness, Salah also had several opportunities yesterday where he could have passed for a better opportunity or done much better with his shots and got them wildly wrong. Mane was the most obvious poor decision to take on the shot, but he wasnt the only one. All our forwards might need reminding that the team success is more important than person goal records.

11 Dec 2017 09:28:42
If you missed the live chat where Ed001 and Ed002 chose the posters who are going to play in a charity football match with Ed001 and Ed002 as the team managers, then the text of it is on this Charity team pick page.

11 Dec 2017 10:00:39
Missed it last night, but this is thread is hilarious.

Oh and don't worry Ed001, I'm also not much of a drinker so I'll hopefully balance things out with the raver. My training starts tonight! Nice and easy to begin with. I'll be making 5m shuttles runs to the fridge every half hour, slowly increasing over the next 6 months until i can get it down to every 30 seconds. I'll be fit as a flea!

11 Dec 2017 10:39:09
#ED2floralarmy.

11 Dec 2017 11:02:31
You're going down Benny. I may act like I'm not taking this seriously, but i literally started so dieting the day you suggested this 😂

I kid you not, i bought fresh fruit on Saturday for the first time in over a year. Normally i won't touch it unless it's in a tin with syrup 😂.

{Ed001's Note - speaking of fresh, you need to make sure the ice in your drink is always fresh MKS, none of that frozen rubbish.}

11 Dec 2017 11:42:13
I envy you guys. I'm sure you guys will enjoy it. Don't forget to share with us here. Maybe some photos and such.

{Ed001's Note - the plan is to stream it mate.}

11 Dec 2017 11:47:03
Benny can you post who plays what position and their strength and weaknesses. Would aid with the pre-match banter!

11 Dec 2017 12:24:12
Would love to see how on paper we like up against each other ( withe the strengths and weakness’s) also maybe we get get the charity link up for payment and other users to donate.

11 Dec 2017 13:16:47
I've actually collected the snow as it fell, and compacted it into little cubes in my freezer Ed. So fresh that it was created by mother nature!

I've even hoovered a shared my car for the first time in 6 months. Got to keep that respiratory system healthy!

Regarding the sex, don't worry about that. My son was born 11 months ago and he now sleeps in between us in the bed. Plus i saw a photo online that said "girls who will have twins in 2018" and her name was on it, so we're on a sex ban anyway. I'm not normally superstitious, but i can't be doing with screaming twins, so I'm taking no risks.

11 Dec 2017 07:51:00
Regardless of decisions that went against us, unless klopp is attempting to intimidate future refs to think twice about what wrath they'll face from him, I really think the man should have taken the result with a little more grace. He's the manager of a great club. It's our job to lose the head and curse and complain and feel aggrieved. It's his to rise above it, control the emotions and inspire the team onto the next game. Personally, I thought it was a strange starting line up particularly with Milner and solanke and whilst it didn't work, it's still a draw when we could have fallen further behind united. Onwards to the next game.

11 Dec 2017 08:31:43
You would have preferred he shrugged, smiled and said que sera sera?

11 Dec 2017 09:21:09
Klopp is a great manager and I love his passion for the game, he takes no crap, didn't the rich man's Pullis ask City to stop celebrating, the guy is an idiot.

11 Dec 2017 09:29:42
No but in England if u show any sign of sour grapes the media hype it up an then sky get involved and the whole thing gets stained on the manager look wat happened too benitez when we nearly won the league, we got some negative results benitez got frustrated live on TV and the rest was history, never show your hand I say l.

11 Dec 2017 11:23:10
I'm all for passion, I just think a little restraint is in order. Mocking and challenging a sly reporter before marching off disrespectfully is another thing entirely. My point was that I wished he held himself up to a higher standard particularly when facing such a beast as sly sports news. I know it's difficult right after a match when emotions are high but as hailstones suggested with Benitez, sly will build it up and rerun the interview again and again much to the delight of our rivals. I'm fairly certain klopp has woken up this morning and thought that a wry grin and an icy glare when asked about the official, may have been enough.

{Ed001's Note - he did not march off disrespectfully, he apologised to the reporter in full before he left the interview.}

11 Dec 2017 12:10:51
Was he not being facetious, with his final words? As he apologised to the studio and turned to the reporter and offered the same apology and left while the reporter was saying something? If I'm wrong, totally my bad. And if his apology was sincere then I've been a little harsh.

{Ed001's Note - he was apologising sincerely, he knew he had allowed himself to be pushed into saying the wrong thing.}

11 Dec 2017 12:20:14
Yeah I watched it back there ed. you are right, he was genuine at the end like you said, probably realised he got pushed. My mistake. Cue-genuine apology. Sorry!

{Ed001's Note - no worries, I am sure they didn't edit the interview on TV to make it clear.}

11 Dec 2017 03:49:55
To the Ed's, or anyone else really, my issue with the pen wasn't that it was given (thought it was soft but I don't know enough about the sport to say it was/ wasn't there) but with the positioning of the ref.

I used to umpire Aussie rules football, and the benefit of having two or more central decisions makers means that it's easier to get into a side-on position to be better able to make that decision. To me the ref was largely guessing as to how much force Lovren used because he was behind play.

My question is has there ever been discussion about adding an extra ref (I think another 2 linesman would be great as well)? It seems to be something that would be easy to implement and I don't see it having a detrimental effect on the game, but see a lot of upsides. How feasible do you think this would be?

And thanks for all the hard work you all do. It helps an uneducated Australian understand the game a little better, have a merry Christmas too.

{Ed001's Note - not that I am aware of, though I have always said that extra linesmen would be a big help myself. The extra ref would probably help as well. Anything to make decision making instantaneous rather than having to refer it to videos, imo.

There will always be grey areas to argue over and they should not be removed from the game. But we should make it as easy as possible for the referee.}

11 Dec 2017 07:43:40
I believe what you are saying, Ed. However, there are extra refs on the goal line in the CL and the Serie A BUT thy seem to either have no input, get overruled by the center ref or are just there to see if the ball crossed the line and have no broader powers. Which is it, in your opinion?

{Ed001's Note - they are pointless because they are not in a position to see anything of any importance. If they are side on they have a much better view and can have more input.}

11 Dec 2017 08:05:29
I play hockey and they have two refs communicating by headset, one in each half. Whoevers half it is in is responsible for the call, but can take guidance from the other of they are not sure. Seems to work well if the refs are open to take advice and give it.

11 Dec 2017 09:33:34
Firmane we had the same! It means that the refs are in a better position to make a judgment if it’s a quick counter.


Would that be something that could work Ja the future?

11 Dec 2017 12:09:34
Why not an extra field ref? Other sports make use of it quite well. These are older guys expected to keep up with prime athletes on a full pitch.

10 Dec 2017 23:58:06
Here we are again, a meme. One step forward one step back. We are definitely a team in progression but that is fully based on our attack, I don’t think we have ever really improved defensively but that wasn’t the problem today. My take on the match is that I’d have preferred for us to start with our strongest team and bring off certain players when we could afford to, but I wasn’t totally against the rotation and it’s worked since we started. Even today it worked but for mane and lovren (even though it was a soft pen) . I think if we were to cut out half of our individual errors we might just have a very good defensive record but we have too many error prone players.

A lot of people wanted to point some blame at Klopp, I think in terms of the starting 11 it was strong enough to beat Everton and we showed that, we should have been 2 or 3 goals up by the time they scored. In terms of game management I’d agree, Klopp is very very weak in this area, and what proves this is how many times we’ve won games from losing position or drawn games from a winning position since he has taken over. The subs were as usual, very poor and badly timed. But that team should have won easily. And it’s definitly not on Klopps preparation or tactics as to why we dropped points.

Main culprit for dropping points for me was mane today. We go 2-0 up and I think mentally they would try a lot less harder and we would have gone on to score more instead mane was selfish, and didn’t even hit the target. It’s good to be selfish sometimes but I think there’s something else in why mane wants to take opportunities by himself. I’m not sure he likes the fact that Salah is the main man now and not him. It’s probably hocus pocus BS but it’s possible. Either way poor decision that I knew would cost us and it did. Lovren mistake was a soft pen, he should have just stood him up more and not put his hands on him, but Craig pawson is always giving that against us, he always gives big decisions against us.

In terms of the table nothing much changes, Chelsea and Utd both lost and we’re a point closer but should be 3 points behind united in second. Arsenal still a point behind us. City have all but secured the league today and deservedly so. Prefer them to win it than the scum.

11 Dec 2017 00:19:58
The midfield lacked creativity! We won 7-0 twice while Henderson on the bench.

11 Dec 2017 08:01:07
Love your post, Kman. We were winning that game and the subs were put in to rest Salah cos we would need him vs the bus parking WBA so the subs don't bother me.

RedEka, your post makes no sense. Hendo's job is not to create so what does he have to do with us not being creative? We were on top of them all game and Hendo made more passes than the whole Everton team combined. They parked the bus and so what were you expecting. WH parked the bus vs Chelsea and there sideways passing all day by Chelsea. Are their midfielders now crap as a result? We moved the ball around and found space in behind at times and had Mane not been a jerk, it's 2-0 and game over. What has Hendo or Klopp got to do with Mane being a jerk? You Hendo bashers need to take the season off cos you are becoming desperate and redundant by the minute.

11 Dec 2017 09:20:41
Well. if Klopp thinks an English midfield of Milner Hendo Ox is our creative axis, he is in deep trouble.

11 Dec 2017 09:47:07
And we won 5-1 with Henderson in the team last week, Eka. Did you forget that, or deliberately omit it because it didn't suit your point?

The Henderson obsession is really sad. Is he going into some posters houses and sleeping with their mothers or something?

11 Dec 2017 10:03:21
Til the 70th minute it was one of the most one sided Mersey derbys if not derbys in general. I think everton put 5 or more passes together twice at that stage. We created enough chances to have at least 3 goals at this stage without them threatening once.
If the penalty hadn't have happened we would be raving about rotation working and we were unlucky not to batter them and so on.
I don't think now that one individual error cost us we can suddenly say the whole team was awful?