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27 Apr 2018 08:37:11
Anyone else think that it's now fair to say that at the top level academy players will not get a chance. So to expect players like Kent, Ojo, Woodburn etc to get a fair crack of the whip at some point is wishful thinking. True there are some anomolies (Trent, Kane) but modern football comes with a demand for success. I for one do not expect 99% of our academy players to get a chance before being offloaded. I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing because if they're good enough they'll make it. But buying ready made quality is making top premier league teams academies null and void. What's the point?

Fenton

1.) 27 Apr 2018 09:16:22
It has been going like this at the highest level for a long time, sadly.

Hardly any of even the highest rated academy graduates tend to make it at the club they came through the system with. In our last 20 seasons, we've seen Sterling and that is it. Even he was signed at 15 so does it even count? Although most of the higher rated Players do tend to build a career elsewhere. Spearing, Ibe, Ince, Coady, Kelly, Gulacsi, Rossiter, Smith, Hammill, Wisdom, Robinson and Flanagan all look good enough for a strong level of football, but none have or will make it at Anfield long term unless we buy them back in the future. Sterling was the only one, and we sold him anyway.

Even out of the higher rated players, some don't even make it elsewhere. Adam Morgan is a prime example. Last I heard he got sacked by a non-league team and he was once dubbed the "new Fowler".

It has been going on for as long as I have been alive. You will get the rare exception such as the United class of '92 (Neville, Butt, Scholes, Giggs, Beckham), Liverpool's Spice boy era (Fowler, Redknapp, Macca, Gerrard, Carragher, Owen), or more recently the great Barcelona crop (Pedro, Messi, Iniesta, Pique, Alba) . Even some of them had to move elsewhere before they got their big move back to the side they started at though.

I guess my point is, this is not a new thing. There have been randomised exceptions in the last 30 years, but overall, very few players have broken through into the first team at the club they trained with as youth players.

The best top team in the Prem right now, contrary to media opinion, is actually Man United. Lingard, Rashford, McTominay and to some extent Pogba are all products of their academy who play regularly. Though keep in mind the embarrassing saga around Pogba being bought back for a world record fee 😂

The next best is probably Spurs who have Kane as their best player and Winks in and out.

Then probably Liverpool who have Arnold and Woodburn in and out (you can't include Gomez or Solanke because we signed them at 18/ 19) or Arsenal with Wilshere and Iwobi in and out.

Chelsea and City would rather spend on players who are already old enough to sign professional contracts (17+) . Which is a shame because they both have some brilliant players at youth level such as Foden and Hudson-Odoi who will probably never get a chance.

It is sad football has gone this way, but it has been gradually getting worse year on year, as the financial risks have increased.

{Ed001's Note - Redknapp was bought from Bournemouth, never came through the academy.}


2.) 27 Apr 2018 09:23:53
I think you're kinda contradicting yourself there by saying that it's wishful thinking that the academy players will get a chance, but if they're good enough they'll make it.

It's only natural that at the top level, competition for first team places is incredibly fierce so you have to be both extremely talented and hardworking to get in. Most unfortunately will not make the cut, but I think we are very fortunate that we have a manager like Klopp who clearly likes to develop players so our academy players should have a fair chance to prove themselves worthy of wearing the badge.

Liverpool traditionally has had talented players coming through the ranks of the academy, so hopefully that will continue.


3.) 27 Apr 2018 09:44:04
The wishful thinking comment was related to chances at Liverpool. When I say 'make it' I mean that they'll play football at a professional level. Just to clarify. I guess my larger point is that we spend 10's of millions of pounds a season on our academy. Which, as MK pointed out, has produced what once in the last 20 seasons (if you even count sterling) . Our academies at the top level still relevant for success and if not why have them? For historical and sentimental reasons? On the off chance you develop the next Messi? It may be controversial but my opinion is that academies at the top level are redundant and therefore top clubs should focus their money in other areas.

{Ed001's Note - is Trent not counting then?}


4.) 27 Apr 2018 09:50:53
At the moment Ed Trent counts but I would've said the same about Flanagan when he broke through 😊.

{Ed001's Note - not sure I would compare the two at all. Flanagan got his opportunity because we had injury problems. Trent was a planned opportunity because he deserved it.}


5.) 27 Apr 2018 10:01:05
Fair point! Would you say that Flanagan seized that opportunity though? at the time I believe even on here many thought he would be a mainstay.


6.) 27 Apr 2018 10:09:59
Some clubs can't financially sustain academies anymore and have got rid, but if everyone got rid we'd have no youngsters coming through. Even if we don't produce youngsters for our team, a lot of them will play for other clubs and we'll take other clubs youngsters in return. Gomez and Sterling weren't our academy's products and they're doing alright. We'd like more talent produced through the academy but if they're good enough, they'll make it.


7.) 27 Apr 2018 10:17:17
Once we are 2-0/ 3-0 up that's the time klopp needs to start giving our academy boys 1/ 2 a run and see how they cope.


8.) 27 Apr 2018 10:25:44
Understand what your saying Bardzo but the very top clubs rarely in my opinion produce top top talent. So they should scrap academies. For example Hazard, Silva, Vidal, Lewandowski, Pastore, Sanchez and many more top quality players barely see a top side until they've done the business elsewhere. It's all well and good giving Woodburn 15 mins to see how he copes but long term that's not sustainable.


9.) 27 Apr 2018 10:51:59
Cheers Ed, didn't know that about Redknapp! That is just one less player to come through in the last 30 years then.

I am hoping that Trent and Woodburn both go on to become regulars and buck the trend. Curtis Jones seems to be held in very high regards too.

Question Ed001, do you think (in your opinion) that Ojo, Kent or Wilson can come back and be part of the squad next season? They were once a fantastic front 3 for the u21's, but it looks like the ship has sailed to me. Wilson maybe has an outside shot I suppose.

{Ed001's Note - I would think only Wilson has a chance, but he needs to put in more effort tracking back and pressing to really stand a chance.}


10.) 27 Apr 2018 11:25:09
You could say the same about trent. Would he have got the chance he had this year if Clyne was fit? I prefer trent all day but hindsight is a great thing.

People say clubs would rather buy an established player over an academy kid but established players don't sprout out of the ground at 24. If the academy kids have to step down a level and fight their way back up them that's fine and probably good for them and the game. So much effort is being made by the fa to sort out our national team that I think more youngsters are going to be making it at the top level more and more.


11.) 27 Apr 2018 18:33:11
TAA, has made the full back position his own, he is the best we have right now,
he will probably stay there for another season before moving into midfield,
its unreal to see how Klopp gave him his chance, and now TAA and Salah are forming a great partnership down the right hand side,
at 19 yrs of age, he is giving Salah great support, he is going to be a great great player for us,
young players get their chance, and they sometimes make it .


12.) 27 Apr 2018 21:00:29
Salah, Trent already got chances last season and Klopp already wanted him to play more even last season. He would have gotten his chances regardless of whether Clyne was fit or not. The boy has earned it and frankly, he is the FB Clyne wishes he was.


 

 

23 Apr 2018 09:14:31
Hi everyone hope all is well! Travelling through Southeast Asia for 3 months at the moment. I will be in Siem Reap, Cambodia for the game tomorrow. I was wondering if anyone knows where any Liverpool fans congregate to watch the game. Or any good bars for the game in general! Realize it's a long shot but any advice would be greatly appreciated. Don't want to be stuck in a bar where the game isn't of interest to anyone 😅.

Fenton

1.) 23 Apr 2018 09:32:44
I have no idea where people meet, but enjoy the travelling.


2.) 23 Apr 2018 09:44:43
There's a street mate called 'pub street' with pubs there that'll definitely air the game. Check out temple club if its still open. Have a good time mate.


3.) 23 Apr 2018 10:52:30
Cheers Guys! Thanks for the advice Salah I'll be there at 2am for the game with my shirt on supporting the boys! Tonight I'll dream of Kiev 😉.


4.) 23 Apr 2018 15:17:50
Definitely Pub Street. Enjoy the trip, Angkor Wat is beautiful.


5.) 23 Apr 2018 15:46:24
Pub Street is where it’s at in Siam Reap.


6.) 23 Apr 2018 22:05:11
Man, I’m jealous. Angkor Wat is amazing. We hired a private guide for 10 dollars for the day and he took us round all the temples and stopped at his favourite places to eat on the way round. I’m sure you’ve been told, but if you can, try and get there for sunrise. It’s like nothing else I’ve seen, so beautiful. Anyway, I stayed in a place called Hak’s House. I was lucky that I got to watch it there but ask one of the tuk tuk drivers otherwise, they know everything you need to know. Have an awesome time man!


 

 

11 Dec 2017 15:14:43
Really think Andy Robertson had a solid game against Everton, offers the same as Moreno going forward but more positionally and defensively aware. Should start.

Fenton

1.) 11 Dec 2017 16:00:14
Work in progress. I thought his crossing was poor, especially when under no pressure and his cross just sailed over everyone’s heads.


2.) 11 Dec 2017 15:36:13
Neither good nor bad for me. He had little to do defensively, so it's hard to assess that part of his game. Going forward, he linked up around the box well enough, varied his runs a bit more than previously (he's used to staying right out on the touchline and whipping crosses, which showed up in his first couple of games for us) and skinned Rooney a couple of times in the first half, but he didn't deliver any threatening crosses.

But he's only 4 games into his LFC career and is clearly having to adapt his game. He should get a run of games in the next couple of weeks and we'll get a better chance to assess him.


3.) 11 Dec 2017 15:38:55
I actually thought he didn't have a great game, he looks like he only has one trick in the final third and that's a back post cross. I really like the lad and was glad we signed him but I think he needs a bit more work on the training ground. He is better than Moreno at the back but Moreno is the better attacking player.


4.) 11 Dec 2017 15:57:20
I loved his debut but thought his delivery was a bit poor against Everton. One of Solankes problems was I can’t remember a decent ball into the box he could attack with his head from either side.


5.) 11 Dec 2017 16:50:20
I disagree Superred I thought he linked up with Milner and Mane around the box really well though his crossing did leave something to improve but agree that Coutinho tried to do it all himself when he came on you can hardly blame Robertson for that!


6.) 11 Dec 2017 17:21:06
That's right. I was watching how he contain Lennon on right. There was moment that Lennon nearly went past him but Robertson stuck doggedly to task and the ball hit corner flag and was cleared by him.


7.) 11 Dec 2017 17:29:29
Disagree with the "offers the same as Moreno going forward". I counted a number of very wayward crosses yesterday. Do think he adds more solidity in defending, but I think Moreno (this season's vintage, anyway) is closer to what we need than Robertson.


8.) 11 Dec 2017 17:28:40
Coutinho doesn’t trust Robertson and I can understand why! How crossings were awful against a team that had no pace at all! I am afraid the boy won’t get many chances while phil is at the club! In fact I don’t remember our last left back who could beat his man!


9.) 11 Dec 2017 17:49:54
On a positive note we don’t have Milner cutting back onto his right foot every time this season.


10.) 11 Dec 2017 19:01:58
Spot on, Zed. There is no way that Robbo offers as much going forward as Moreno. No way. Moreno is well ahead of Robbo in that dept. and has better end product than him. Why? He has 3/ 4 assists this season. Also, Moreno has more variation in his crosses as he can ping one across goal now, cut the ball back the second time, and hang one up the 3rd time hence the defence does not know what he will do. Robbo has good shape on his crosses BUT does not seem to look for anyone in particular so it just sails over or accross goal with no one in sight. He has a lot to learn before he can dislodge Moreno esp. in the attacking dept.


11.) 11 Dec 2017 19:04:04
The relationship between Coutinho and Robertson should have no bearing on whether Robertson starts long-term. As Coutinho is off in January/ Summer. Think the lad will work hard for the club and see a little bit of Steve Finnan in him!


12.) 12 Dec 2017 08:12:58
Agreed, Fenton. He just needs to up his game and with Klopp's coaching and the right attitude, he will get there. Look at what Klopp has done with Moreno.


 

 

11 May 2015 13:08:58
Eds any chance of Sidney Sam or Kevin Prince Boateng. or insight into that situation at Schalke! Crazy stuff both players seemed to have a lot of quality at one point.

Fenton

{Ed002's Note - it is going to be a really long summer if I am going to be asked this nonsense.}


1.) 11 May 2015 19:28:17
Ed any chance of some deadwood as we haven't got as much money as everyone else and the referees are all against us. Sack Rodgers!


 

 

02 Jan 2015 15:16:13
Anyone else think retiring the no.8 jersey would be best. couldn't stand watching any mediocre players try and fill the shirt.

Fenton

1.) Fenton I think that is only appropriate after a death to former player. seems a bit extreme tbh. he is not dead, just trying something different and he'll be back in a few years in a coaching/directory role. YNWA


2.) It is not just done when some one dies pele if your old enough to know who he was had his number 10 retired and he is alive it has been done many times for great players who retired I think it is the best way to show Stevie G how much he means to LFC


3.) Well no not really. they could of said that about kenny and the number 7 shirt. suarez was handed the number 7 shirt.


4.) No way. Stevie is only arguably the best player to have worn the shirt in the premier league era.

Fowler, Carragher, Suarez and Alonso aren't exactly too far behind him.

We haven't retired numbers for Barnes, Souness, Rush, Dalglish, Liddell, Hansen, Clemence, Nicol, Keegan, Yeats, Smith, Hughes, Callaghan, Neal etc.

You can't just retire numbers for every great player we have. We'll have to start on the Alphabet otherwise!

I agree with the first reply. You do that if somebody dies. There might well be a few anomalies where it's happened (Pele etc) but look at the Brazil national team. They're so caught up with History and "we are Brazil, we should play attacking football" that they're just an international version of Liverpool thinking they're automatically deserving of winning trophies.

This is exactly why it will be a blessing when Gerrard leaves. Too much of the fan base think he is bigger than the club and some sort of god amongst men.

I don't remember people saying we should retire the 23 number when Carragher called time on his career and he was far more deserving of such a notion. He could easily have gone to the MLS to get a final pay day, but he chose to retire when he thought he was a hindrance, never held us to ransom over contracts, didn't need death threats to stay loyal for his entire career and never went missing on the pitch. There is a reason we sing "we all dream of a team of Carraghers". I wouldn't even retire the number for him though because again, Liverpool FC > Carragher or Gerrard.

If Gerrard had died, fair enough. He's only going across the pond!


5.) Stupid idea. We don't have to retire a great squad number to show our appreciation for him. I'm pretty sure 150k a week and voted 1st or 2nd best player ever to play for us is appreciation enough. I'd quite like to save it for a youngster who is coming through like Rossiter, if he proves he is worthy of a valuable squad number.


6.) Come on fella get a grip, he is a player(been excellent agreed) for our great club, nobody is bigger than the club, we move on


7.) Albeydered , as you clearly have a few years on me I will forgive you for not using your goggles when reading my earlier post. lol. It was only what I thought about retiring the number, never said it is what happens. so let me give you a hand getting you down from your soapbox and i'll see that you get back in time for supper at the home. mmmm. ps . isn't pele the guy that played for brazil?? oh well I don't think I remember him. lol.


8.) 02 Jan 2015 17:34:48
Not strictly true Adam, loads on here called for 23 to be retired, if I remember there were far more posts on the subject, too.


9.) Tom, crackin' place Coatbridge. Great people.


10.) Fair enough Dave. I can't remember them but I know you wouldn't lie.


11.) It is davie, depending which day you are here. lol. everyone drinks buckfast for fun.


 

 

 

Fenton's rumour replies

 

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12 Dec 2017 12:41:42
Indian in todays market mate that's the price you're going to have to pay unfortunately. I'm not saying I think he's worth that much but I think he's our best option out there if Coutinho leaves! Regarding his form, I trust Klopp to get the best out of any player so that doesn't worry me.

Fenton

 

 

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12 Dec 2017 10:08:34
I really think Lemar is the ideal signing to replace Coutinho. Comfortable out on the left where Klopp likes to deploy Coutinho. If Salah is going to stay more central like the last few games then Mane can go back on the right where he looked more lethal last year than he has on the left this year! Genuinely believe this signing would help the team immeasurably.

Fenton

 

 

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11 Jan 2015 21:47:06
Just want to comment on what a story it is, brick layer to premier league goalscorer. albeit for QPR but surely the lad deserves a chance, not saying for Liverpool but just a decent club that guarantees premier league security because there's no doubting his talent.

Fenton

 

 

 

Fenton's banter replies

 

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10 Jun 2018 07:52:29
Also would love more opinion Ed. Always a fun lunchtime read (in Asia)

Fenton

{Ed001's Note - oh cheers mate, I will start adding more opinion then.}


 

 

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27 Apr 2018 10:25:44
Understand what your saying Bardzo but the very top clubs rarely in my opinion produce top top talent. So they should scrap academies. For example Hazard, Silva, Vidal, Lewandowski, Pastore, Sanchez and many more top quality players barely see a top side until they've done the business elsewhere. It's all well and good giving Woodburn 15 mins to see how he copes but long term that's not sustainable.

Fenton

 

 

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27 Apr 2018 10:01:05
Fair point! Would you say that Flanagan seized that opportunity though? at the time I believe even on here many thought he would be a mainstay.

Fenton

 

 

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27 Apr 2018 09:50:53
At the moment Ed Trent counts but I would've said the same about Flanagan when he broke through 😊.

Fenton

{Ed001's Note - not sure I would compare the two at all. Flanagan got his opportunity because we had injury problems. Trent was a planned opportunity because he deserved it.}


 

 

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27 Apr 2018 09:44:04
The wishful thinking comment was related to chances at Liverpool. When I say 'make it' I mean that they'll play football at a professional level. Just to clarify. I guess my larger point is that we spend 10's of millions of pounds a season on our academy. Which, as MK pointed out, has produced what once in the last 20 seasons (if you even count sterling) . Our academies at the top level still relevant for success and if not why have them? For historical and sentimental reasons? On the off chance you develop the next Messi? It may be controversial but my opinion is that academies at the top level are redundant and therefore top clubs should focus their money in other areas.

Fenton

{Ed001's Note - is Trent not counting then?}