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Drogie's rumours posts with other poster's replies to Drogie's rumours posts


09 Oct 2019 16:58:29
Hearing the club will not submit new plans for the Anfield Road end expansion until 2020, with a capacity of only 60,000 ( an additional 6,000 seats )

Yes there are restrictions with infrastructure and the housing around the ground, I still feel this is really disappointing.

We have a season ticket waiting list of over 25,000 and each Match day I always see dozens of fans waiting at the ticket office ( behind the kop ) only to be told games are a sell out.

We are one of the biggest clubs in the world but can't facilitate demand.


1.) 09 Oct 2019 18:22:48
Well it sounds like the 60,000 capacity is there for a reason and you are just looking for something to complain about. Unless you think the club should build a bigger ground somewhere else?

{Ed002's Note - This is old news and all options are being considered.}

2.) 09 Oct 2019 19:14:27
Complain? Are you for real?

I have a season ticket pal, I just feel sorry for all of you on here that can’t get tickets.

3.) 09 Oct 2019 19:25:04
Stadium size is not the only way to show you're a world class team. Don't forget that there's a human and environmental cost to these expansions as have been previously explained. So, unless you're looking for a brand new, shiny Maracana-sized stadium to underline our status, you should just wait to see what happens.

{Ed047's Note - believe it or not Arsenal have over 60,000 on the waiting list for a season ticket.

4.) 09 Oct 2019 19:44:03
I didn’t say it was, it was about being able to eat into the season ticket waiting list.

5.) 09 Oct 2019 20:06:31
ed002 the club has not said anything new have they after they said they was letting the old planning permission to run out. What was for over 4000 can't see them spending the extra money in new plans to add under 2000 seats. As for the infrastructure is there not talks ongoing about some old rail stations being reopened nearer the ground.

{Ed002's Note - There was an interview with The AP where it was explained that all options are open.}

6.) 10 Oct 2019 00:15:59
Ed 02
Sorry. I am in the states. Can you explain what those options are please?
Matt in FL.

7.) 10 Oct 2019 00:15:59
Ed 02
Sorry. I am in the states. Can you explain what those options are please?
Matt in FL.

{Ed002's Note - The owners have made it clear that any and all options are available for consideration. They have not renewed the planning permission because it made no financial sense - it took them a long tie to figure that out.}

8.) 10 Oct 2019 17:14:36
Would that include a new stadium ed02?

Thanks in advance.

{Ed002's Note - Yes, all options.}

9.) 10 Oct 2019 19:31:15
My understanding is it doesn't include a new stadium. The main issue being considered is redeveloping the Anfield Road end and the Kenny Daglish stand. This will take the capacity to 70,000. The Dalish stand would be very much like the main stand in size.

10.) 10 Oct 2019 20:14:35
Would it be fair to say the redevelopment of the main stand, was a mistake and going ahead with plans to build a new stadium away from Anfield, would have made better financial sense, in the long term?

Thanks for the reply.

{Ed002's Note - No. The cost of building a new stadium would be very significant - Spurs have spent something close to £1B and have been plunged in to debt. The income from an extra 6,000 to 10,000 season tickets is zip in the big scheme of things.}

11.) 11 Oct 2019 12:55:48
don't think most fans would want a new stadium but the redevelopment of Anfield road end and Sir Kenny Dalglish stand would be great. The big issue there would be the houses behind the SKD stand, the club would need to probably buy 3 full streets. That will come with a lot of trouble with people not wanting to sell up and then it will come to compulsory purchase order what all ways leaves a bitter taste. I would expect the club to win that fight though.

{Ed002's Note - The club cannot have a compulsory purchase order and already know what the limitations are at Anfield. The club are already less than popular with the locals and are not doing what was planned as it makes zero sense financially - as has been explained year in year out.}

12.) 11 Oct 2019 14:18:35
ED002 did they not get one for the main stand . And if they was to do the skd stand there is no way that could not be done without at least 3 streets being knocked down. I don’t know why they could not to get compulsory purchase order.

{Ed002's Note - That is not what the existing planning permission states. Liverpool cannot get a CPO - that would need to be the local authorities.}

13.) 11 Oct 2019 19:48:52
The redevelopment of the ground has been completed so far as very much part of a wider community regeneration plan, with the City Council as a key enabler and partner. I’d expect the Anfield Road End to get rebuilt, with additional corporate facilities probably, taking the capacity to somewhere between 60 - 65,000.
After that, any further development becomes difficult and, ironically, a regenerated community may be the very thing that prevents any further ground expansion.

14.) 11 Oct 2019 16:54:50
yes I know the local authorities have to get it ed but if they put in planning for the SKD stand and it got granted, that is the only way they would get all the houses, And then I do believe it would go that way not that I like CPO. have seen people near me have there house taken from them with CPO'S I think if they are used the owners should get more than the value of the house rather than less. And with the money in clubs now with what they pay players for one weeks wages over paying for the house near by would be go good way to go about it. I would guess the house at the back of the ground would be about the £100k mark giving an extra 25% would not be a great deal to the clubs but I would mean a lot to the home owners ed. I think in the 4 streets there is about 80 houses so about £8m for all the house an extra £2m on top with what they are paying to get the ground up to 70k with what an 70k stadium would cost to build.

{Ed002's Note - Sorry I am losing track - you say you know it would be the authorities but previously said it would be the club. Nobody has suggested three roads will go. The club has already pissed off and lied about their involvement with the local residents. The club suffers from being arrogant, uncaring and showing no respect to other clubs or individuals - perhaps they will look to force more people from their homes.}

15.) 11 Oct 2019 22:33:51
sorry ed about the 3 roads I meant 4 rows of house for it to have the same height as the main stand would need that for light not to be an issue. And as for the CPO the club would need the planning from local authorities and wants they have that if they get it then it will end up going the CPO route what the club will know will probably have to go that way to get all the houses need for the build. But as most of the time nowadays ed its the money that talks. Like I said before ed if the club wants that stand doing I do think paying over the odds for the houses would be the best way for the club to deal with the issue not that I have heard of any talk of the Sir Kenny Dalglish stand being done I was just pointing out that I see the being a bit off if it ever happens.

{Ed002's Note - You seem to have little or no understanding of the plans that exist nor how the locals are already miffed with the club. You think Liverpool could bribe the council to get CPOs to make more locals homeless then you should be sharing those with the Echo and local community. Don’t worry, they are inner city folks who have little money and could probably be forced out by the club.}

16.) 11 Oct 2019 22:50:42
am not saying anything about the club Bribing the council am just saying that the normal folk normally get the S*** end off the stick. And as I understand it now there is no plans as they ran out. and it was the local authorities that said they was going to use CPO to get the last of the houses for the main stand.

17.) 14 Oct 2019 12:02:10
Am I right in thinking that any stadium with a capacity over 60,000 needs the correct infrastructure, i.e. a train line which is situated close to the ground. Getting to Anfield is not the easiest as its right in the middle of terraced streets. Even with the clearing of houses by the main stand, its still a nightmare to get in and out of. They have buses from the city centre taking fans. An extra 6,000 seats would add some income, but compared with the cost its not worth it? When the main stand was re developed, they change the entire corporate structure, which brings in far more money, as well as redevelopment of the area around the ground.

18.) 14 Oct 2019 12:22:02
Kirkdale station is pretty close.

19.) 27 Oct 2019 04:50:54
I get off at sand hills still a fair walk that.



16 Sep 2019 19:36:17
Robbo has knock and didn't train today.

If there's any doubts whatsoever over his fitness I'd rather not see him feature tomorrow night

Chelsea away is much more important imo.


1.) 17 Sep 2019 09:34:50
I think the days we put short term gain over long term goals a gone drogie or I hope so any way mate.

2.) 17 Sep 2019 15:40:29
I'd happily take a 3-0 loss and everyone leaving Naples fit and healthy in exchange for guaranteed 3 points this weekend.

We have bigger fish to fry this season than the Champions League.

3.) 17 Sep 2019 15:52:41
Champions League is our best bet for silverwhere. Klopp don't take league cup and FA cup to serious and no chance to win the league.

4.) 17 Sep 2019 16:04:43
I don't know why we need a loss tonight I would love a win tonight sets up the champions league great for us qualify from the group as soon as possible makes resting players later on easier. But is still want a win sunday think its a massive week for us could make getting through the groups stages a lot less stressful not like last season when it went to the end.

5.) 17 Sep 2019 17:52:11
We need to win to keep momentum grino but I just think if robbo has a niggle not worth risking him when a rest now could stop a potential stint on the sidelines.

6.) 17 Sep 2019 18:52:50
That's negative even for Walter, 2 of cities 3 CBs are injured and even with their massive squad depth you would think that would be a tough situation to come through without dropping points. I think we have every chance this season.

7.) 18 Sep 2019 09:31:05
Den82 agreed they have Thier problems but they will be just behind or just in front by January. Once January comes they will buy who they need to win the league.

8.) 19 Sep 2019 03:07:41
I hope they are in front so we can chase them down the 4 times we have been in front at Xmas hasn't exactly been great for us at the end of the season let's try reeling them in might be more successful that way for us to be at the top at Xmas and not win the league once is painful seeing that stat every year just with another year added every time it happens I don't know if I can take another season where we are top at Xmas and not win the league in May.



14 Apr 2019 20:34:52
Evening Ed001.

First of all, what a result today!

Away from the match, just want to pick up on the discussion regarding Clyne. You were spot on regarding him not being injured. Mate of mine who I sit next to at the match, knows a bloke who works with the phsyio team. He was saying that Clyne was caught smoking marijuana and partying whilst away in Ghana and the club actually spoke to the FA regarding this and the only reason he played against United was because of the lack of cover at RB.

He was also saying how worried the club was regarding Brewster's injury, especially when the leg was infected, hampering his comeback.

Brewster is very very highly rated at the club and have said that before his injury, was ahead of Owen ( at the same age ) in terms of terms of ability.

Good to see him back and scoring with the 23's along with the Ox and Gomez. I think the club will resist bringing them back early and wait until next season.


1.) 14 Apr 2019 21:29:46
If Brewster is ahead of Owen ability wise at that age i'll be a very very happy man because in todays market that's a £150 million player.

2.) 14 Apr 2019 21:34:15
Ahh he was stoned the whole time, explains his performances over the last few years.

3.) 14 Apr 2019 22:27:05
Second hand tittle tattle Drogie, which may or may not be right.
You shouldn’t have posted that imo.

4.) 14 Apr 2019 23:23:00
Second hand title tattle? And what make you so sure mate?

5.) 14 Apr 2019 23:51:58
It's a rumour site. so why not post a rumour?

6.) 15 Apr 2019 00:56:26
I know it's a rumour page but I'm a relative of Clyne please don't slander his name by bringing drugs into it he injured his back playing how shall I say extra curricular activities lol 1000% fact but don't drag he's name through dirt he loves the club and the badge he played for just know that


7.) 15 Apr 2019 00:58:36
Surely everything is second hand here, everyone’s heard it from someone.

8.) 15 Apr 2019 01:48:40
Drogie - are you tslking about the period of his (Clyne) so called back injury?

If so I heard the same thing at the time. In fact I remember a rumor of that kind was flying around on social media, but never paid much attention to it.

9.) 15 Apr 2019 06:42:40
You probably shouldn’t post something that could destroy a man’s career unless you have actual proof.

{Ed001's Note - it wouldn't destroy his career. It is not seen as career-defining, let alone destroying. Numerous players each season get caught with marijuana in their systems. It was not marijuana that caused Clyne to be dropped, it was his lifestyle. The guy may claim to care about Liverpool or football in general, but the only thing he gives a toss about is living the high life.}

10.) 15 Apr 2019 07:40:20
Those of you that read my posts will know that I never post a rumour, in fact it’s probbly my first!

I was given the info by a good friend of mine that I sit next to at the match, I’m not one for spreading cr*p.

Sorry if I’ve offended anyone, but the club are finished with Clyne.

11.) 15 Apr 2019 19:22:28
Ed01 already addressed the Clyne issue months when many moaned as to why he was not being picked. Ed01 said at the time that he was "not living the lifestyle of a professional footballer" and if anything the OP posted is true then that was what Ed01 may have been referring to.

IMO and regardless of his alleged lifestyle, he is light years behind Trent, Milner and even Hendo at RB and for me, Klopp did the right thing by getting shot of him cos he was no good enuff. Now if you add his "lifestyle" to the equation then it was a no-brainer.

{Ed001's Note - I have already posted in this thread that it was not about a drugs test. It was his party lifestyle. He acts like one of those spoilt rich kids who have too much money and never had to earn it as they were born with a silver spoon in their mouths. Klopp wants professionals who train hard and not turn up to training after snatching 20 minutes kip following a night out partying.}

12.) 16 Apr 2019 12:42:38
With you all the way on that one, Ed. Regardless of his issues (of which there are many, clearly) he is a dreadful player and I'm thankful he is no longer here and we will get rid come this summer.

{Ed001's Note - the sad thing is that he was a dreadful player because of his own attitude. He had the ability to be more than good enough.}

13.) 17 Apr 2019 23:25:06
Clyne will always be an important footnote in Joe Gomez and Trent Alexander-Arnolds careers.



02 Mar 2019 22:35:09
Echo is reporting the Ox is expected to feature for the under-23s over the coming week.


1.) 03 Mar 2019 00:01:28
yes, read that, great news, and he is really liked by all the staff, players and fans, so its a huge lift,
I have a good feeling about this return from injury,
he is really good for the club .

2.) 03 Mar 2019 04:19:05
Could be extremely helpful to inject some energy into midfield as we go into the final run-in.

3.) 03 Mar 2019 05:56:46
He’s built like a horse that lad.

4.) 03 Mar 2019 11:22:57
I think it's important we don't place too many expectations on him for this season at least. Coming back from a horrible injury often has many set backs. I would expect him to suffer little niggles and strains a lot as he's trying to get back to full fitness.

Next season I'm sure he will be back to his best.

5.) 03 Mar 2019 14:37:50
Surely if you’re gunna say that, he’s built like an ox?

6.) 04 Mar 2019 07:58:45
He’d better be careful then. another leg injury and they might shoot him.

{Ed025's Note - nice one marshy..

7.) 04 Mar 2019 16:14:46
If anyone in the team were built like a horse shouldn't it be Mane?

{Ed025's Note - love it 67..



14 Jan 2019 07:49:02
Morning Ed002.

Was thinking, if Salah and his representatives are / have been attempting to engineer a move away, are the owners and those running the club not aware of this? Surely they must be, I'd be astonished if they weren't

If so, are they making provisions to replace him in the Summer? One can say the summer is a long way off but replacing someone like Salah will require some work. As we all know if a player wants to leave and there is an opportunity they will.



{Ed002's Note - I am not aware of Salah doing anything specific, and his representative can speak to whomever they wish - it is no different from another players agent talking with Liverpool, Arsenal or anything else. I am not aware of any club looking to buy Salah in the summer at this time - it was seemingly a begging activity which would see Salah's future opportunities removed if Real Madrid were to buy the forwards they are looking at. Right now, I would not worry too much.}

1.) 14 Jan 2019 08:17:25
Thanks Ed002.

2.) 14 Jan 2019 11:48:17
Seriously Edd 002, an extremely well balanced answer, to a much too frequently and unoriganal question.

{Ed002's Note - It is simply the situation as I understand it right now.}

3.) 14 Jan 2019 18:53:32
Hey Dorgie, how did you manage to get 3 thumbs down for saying Thank You!

Gosh there are some lemons on here.

4.) 14 Jan 2019 19:31:31
If we analyse the way a thank you is delivered, we can start to ascertain why people may deliver a 'thumbs down'.

In years gone by, it was accepted that a nod, a tip of ones bowler hat or, as people expressed themselves more liberally, even a wink would be enough to acknowledge appreciation.

As times passed, expressing gratitude, evolved into a verbal exchange using the words 'thank you', which became shortened to 'thanks' or 'cheers'.

However, in this digital age, things developed further, with people going all out in expressing their appreciation. Phrases like 'Totes amazing', or wholly over the top comments meant that simply 'thanks' was of a bygone age.

So there we have it, I suspect the thumbs down was a result of vegan millenials passing by on their digital device and not recognising this more traditional way of expressing gratitude.

If you have read this far, then you a totes amazing and a far more superior being than me. I hereby tip my hat to you. Thanks.

That should have covered everything and everyone there.

5.) 14 Jan 2019 20:03:33
Boobybf post of the week.

6.) 14 Jan 2019 21:53:32
Grazi Mille.


do jeh, daw- dyeh

Danke sehr.
Khop Khun Mak Kha.

7.) 15 Jan 2019 01:33:56
Great reply BobbyF!

8.) 15 Jan 2019 12:58:37
Drogie - taking it to new and more cultural levels! I am impressed.

9.) 15 Jan 2019 17:47:19
Post of the week? This should be a mandatory read for anyone entering this site. brilliant bobby f. Oh and 'merci beaucoup'

10.) 15 Jan 2019 20:56:25
Gracias billynwa!

My new favourite poster.




Drogie's banter posts with other poster's replies to Drogie's banter posts


18 Nov 2019 18:58:11
Looks like Robbo and Salah could miss our trip to meet " South East London's "conman's Palace.

Rather they get the required rest than aggravate the injuries they are carrying - coming up to a very busy schedule!


1.) 18 Nov 2019 22:48:20
What makes you say that mate please? Are they both out then Ed001?

{Ed001's Note - they are doubts.}



05 Nov 2019 16:42:50
The club have made their decision regarding the fixture clash with the League cup.

We will field two squads on the same day, be interesting to see which competing Klopp prioritises.


1.) 05 Nov 2019 17:14:03
Had to check the calendar there in case it was 1st April. Any idea how the club will handle this Ed? Strong in one weak in the other or mixture for both?

2.) 05 Nov 2019 17:52:41
Absolutely crazy, will take some seriously good management to avoid losing both and not upsetting the squad with who goes where, not to mention backroom staff, doctors physio etc.

3.) 05 Nov 2019 18:27:08
Which game will Klopp be on the sidelines for? i've never heard of such b####x before.

4.) 05 Nov 2019 19:04:01
Carra's said on Twitter that he's going to be at the Carabao Cup game to help out Alex Inglethorpe, so I assume that means kids will play Villa, whilst Klopp and Lijnders will be with the first team in the CWC.

I thought Klopp might leave Lijnders behind to manage the Carabao cup team.

5.) 05 Nov 2019 19:33:51
Sky Sports pundit Carragher cheekily tweeted: 'Yes! I've been asked to assist Alex Inglethorpe with the team! '.

But Carragher later admitted he wouldn't be joining the backroom staff for the day.

6.) 05 Nov 2019 23:24:32
Personally think Lijnders should stay for the Aston Villa game with our 1st eleven and the team that faced Arsenal in the last round of the League Cup should travel for the first match of the CWC. Aston Villa away is tough and sending out our kids is not giving us the best shot, plus the side that faced Arsenal in the last round of the League Cup are capable of beating any of the sides we could meet in the semis of the CWC.



03 Nov 2019 11:05:40
Great win yesterday but this high line we keep playing is consistently letting teams get in behind us.


1.) 03 Nov 2019 11:36:15
That’s the incentive though, isn’t it, to draw the opponents out?
Although I still think that Joe Gomez is the better choice as CB partner to VVD if you’re playing that way.
Lovren looks under pressure when he’s pulled over to cover his FB.
The high line condenses the play in the opponents half too, the best place to play.
I love it personally, the Liverpool sides I grew up watching played on the half way line as offside.
It’s rarely an opponent can go a full game without conceding under that pressure.
And the great thing now is that the goals are being shared around the team more, Henderson last week and Robbo this with crucial goals.

2.) 03 Nov 2019 13:21:39
OP, I respectfully disagree. We've been playing this way for almost 2 years now and it has been successful for a high majority of the time so not sure why we should change anything. Can we make it better? Of course and that goes for everything in life in general BUT IMO, we improve it instead of scrapping it. Also a lot of teams are being caught offside with our current system and with one of the best sweeper-Keeper on the planet with Allison, it is fine, IMO. But like I said, we can always improve it.

As for Lovs, he is decent (not great) when defending at the FB position and in fact, rarely will you find CB's who can defend out wide properly w/ o them being former FB's so. And also, Gomez might be better in this area but is is off form right now hence, not being picked. If he wants to play, he needs to do a Matip and fight for his chance. If not, he won't play. That's the way footie t this level works, I'm afraid.

3.) 03 Nov 2019 14:52 :26
Good point juicer about the goals being spread about. I think I heard our last 10 prem goals have come from 9 different scorers with Milner, gini, hendo, robbo, Trent, lallana, matip, Hoever all getting goals lately in addition to our front 3 and origi.



01 Nov 2019 16:33:10
Looking forward to the match this weekend.

I hope we smash Villa and wipe the smile off of those two horrible characters faces - Christian Purslow and Paul Tyrrell. Villains of Anfield.


1.) 01 Nov 2019 19:40:26
What did they do?

2.) 01 Nov 2019 21:00:01
Purslow was almost as bad a CEO as Parry, although he did at least help oust Tom and George.

Never heard of Tyrrell.

{Ed001's Note - Tyrrell was head of press at the time and compared fans with the Khmer Rouge and other things. Guy is a complete pos and it is unbelievable that he is still working in football.}

3.) 01 Nov 2019 21:02:07
It’s a long story mate, it was around the time of gillet and hicks ownership - not a good time for the club at all.

4.) 01 Nov 2019 23:01:07
Not arsed about either of these characters cos we have moved on from them for the better. All I care about is that we get the three points.



28 Oct 2019 21:28:17
There are reports circling that Matip could be out for up to six weeks, any of the Ed's heard anything?

It's not been officially stated by the club I hasten t add.


{Ed002's Note - I would be led by the Press Release and typically they come out on Tuesdays. If one of the other Eds wishes to give an update they are welcome. Rarely will a club blurt out "six weeks out" or anything like that.}

1.) 28 Oct 2019 21:42:56
Ok cheers ed002.

Doesn’t sound good though.

{Ed002's Note - The club typically prove a Press Release on Tuesday which is reasonably well informed - but it is driven by by the need for swelling to disappear before injuries can be properly assessed. Stick to what the club say and that should be right most of the time. Try not to concern yourself about it and get some rest overnight.}

2.) 28 Oct 2019 22:34:13
Klopp did say Gomez was back just at the right time and will be playing plenty games in the next few weeks. Would be a blow if Matip is out.

3.) 28 Oct 2019 23:14:59
It will be a big miss were Matip to be out that long. Lovs and Gomez are going to have to step up big time were that to be the case.

4.) 29 Oct 2019 00:25:40
This is a tremendous opportunity for Gomez to win his spot back.

5.) 28 Oct 2019 21:56:30
I’ll certainly try Ed002, just as long I can stop the missus snoring.

6.) 29 Oct 2019 11:54:27
Gomez looks shot of confidence. Hopefully 180 minutes of good performances against Arsenal and Villa will get him back to the standard we have seen prior just in time for the City game. Lovren has been decent when called upon but I would much prefer young Joe to be at the back with VVD if Matip is out.

7.) 29 Oct 2019 12:48:05
I hope we get the good joe back and make that spot his own again! If he doesn’t I can see klopp going for lovern or fab as a partner with vvd’
Here’s hoping JG comes back even better!

{Ed047's Note - can’t think for a minute he won’t jay

8.) 29 Oct 2019 23:53:53
If matip were to have a spell on the sidelines it's great that we can have Gomez or even lovren waiting to step in. And with the bar set so high both players will know they need to give a consistent top level showing. Nice to see we have strength in reserve in important positions, like losing our world class keeper for 2 months saw his understudy come in and keep a high level of performance.

9.) 30 Oct 2019 08:39:01
I think of a few years ago, how much we lacked quality players to step in when needed, now look. We're laughing either way, nothing to worry about.




Drogie's rumour replies


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04 Nov 2019 19:35:04
Don’t tempt me Ed002 😜.




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04 Nov 2019 17:24:25
“Travelling between now and Christmas “

Are you Father Christmas when not being Ed002?


{Ed002's Note - If you can afford it I can be anybody you want.}



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02 Nov 2019 07:17:31
I personally think we need to keep Brewster, especially with the fixtures coming think and fast between now and the end of the season.




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26 Oct 2019 08:13:26
Mbappe will be in the stands on Sunday.




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24 Oct 2019 18:01:00
Ox that is 😂😂.





Drogie's banter replies


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17 Nov 2019 21:09:02
Agree, Ox needs mins but not the rest of the team.
As much as I disliked Fergie, he made sure his players weren’t involved in certain Internationals, Ryan Giggs in particular was withdrawn.




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17 Nov 2019 21:06:10
Mane, Salah - amazing.
Bobby is the player that brings it all together.




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13 Nov 2019 07:38:26
His foot is in a protective boot so it doesn’t look great.




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11 Nov 2019 07:37:41
Agree with you Grino, when Hendo want off, City certainly had more space.




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09 Nov 2019 17:50:40
Too many draws under Rafa, the season we should have won -11 in total and too many draws last season.