Liverpool Banter Archive September 20 2017

20 Sep 2017 22:29:14
Well done Chelsea, city, United an I hate to say it Everton for showing LFC how it's done. Cheers.

20 Sep 2017 23:43:59
Bar city none played EPL opponents?

21 Sep 2017 00:12:33
Can only beat what's in front of you.

21 Sep 2017 01:08:35
We would still have been kicked out if it was a lower league opponent anyways. The defense is a shambles, a kindergarten team would have scored against us while we tried our luck with speculative shots from outside the box.

21 Sep 2017 02:53:44
Everton should be beating Sunderland, they've been taking it easy the last few games in preparation.

21 Sep 2017 03:19:23
Burton, Doncaster and Nottingham Forrest hardly compare to Leicester 😂.

21 Sep 2017 06:47:21
Ah haaa, someone is showing their true allegiances now supporting other rival club's results.
Thanks for showing your true allegiance, now I know another poster to skim over going forward, muchos thanks indeed and yes the "truth hurts"!

21 Sep 2017 07:20:57
Did we not get beat by wolves Irish? Yes that truth is hurting take ya red tinted glasses off.

21 Sep 2017 08:05:12
Truthhurts is a blatant troll. Never posted before this last week and shows up with a name to wind people up, and constantly posts negative crap.

I've been ignoring since 'it' started posting. When you've been here 8 years, you can spot a 12 year old United fan in disguise from a mile off!

21 Sep 2017 08:05:56
Did we not beat Wolves in 1987 TH?
What season are you waffling on about mate?
You may need thicker skin young pup.
If you're in this for the long haul, you'll see worse results than that.
I believe it was Leicester who beat us most recently, a team who won the league 15 months ago.
When did we last win that again?

21 Sep 2017 08:26:02
It doesn't matter who they beat yesterday. The fact is they are in the competition while we are NOT! Does it even matter who their opposition was? If that's the case then we have a far far easier group in CL compared to Spurs!

21 Sep 2017 08:45:22
Yes we do Harry that's obvious but what's your point? The fact is it's much easier to beat Burton, Barnsley or Forest at home than it is to beat Leicester away. Especially in the league cup when you are trying to blood young inexperienced players and leaving out your whole first choice attack. Why is that so hard to understand? Some people on here will use any argument just to have a go at the club. If you really are Liverpool fans you should be embarrassed.

21 Sep 2017 09:04:45
Agreed MK and Ings.
WCD - it doesn't matter to me at all usually who beats us or who we beat, unless it's one extreme or the other.
If we beat Real Madrid, or lose to a lower division team, then my emotions or frustrations are like most, very up or down.
It obviously affecting our friendly troll though :)
There are a few United supporters who come on here and I have no issues with that.
It's the sad ones who I feel sorry for, who have who hide their true intentions because their own lives are so lonely that this is the only way for them to get a social high.
If they come on here and can at least banter with people they'd get more respect.
Or come for genuine football discussion, I appreciate all opinions and genuine posters but this one and one or two other are here for other purposes and have very very weak game.
Time to skim again :)

21 Sep 2017 13:12:53
No troll Mk supported lfc for 40 years so wind ya neck in. Irish do you really support Lfc check your school diary son we were beaten 2-1 this year in the fa cup.

20 Sep 2017 19:58:30
Ed01, what, if anything, would you change to get the results going for us again or would you let it continue as is and see if the players settle down better.

{Ed001's Note - I would give the midfield more defined roles. Make Can hold more and sit in front of the defence. Drop Mignolet and give Ward the rest of the season. Oh and not chop and change the back four.}

20 Sep 2017 20:06:04
It seems pretty simple to make those changes, it's not re-inventing the wheel 😀. It would be nice to see some stability in the team, a confident keeper gives confidence to the defenders in front of him, a more defensive minded mid supports when fbs get forward or to mop up second balls. Here's hoping he makes some changes as the attack looks great and will only get better, we just need to tighten up now at the back. Cheers for the reply.

20 Sep 2017 20:27:01
Totally agree about the back 4. Its plain daft to keep changing them, at the very least until they get a real understanding. Arnold, Matip, Lovren and Robertson for me. I appreciate that some might want Gomez in but i just don't think playing alongside any of our centre halves would do him any good. Meanwhile Klopp continues with his soccer suicide, as Ron says, 2 at the back and 8 running around after the ball.

20 Sep 2017 21:35:31
Hi Ed.
Would that be the reason why he is stalling on the new deal?

Maybe he doesn't want to be labled a dedicated holding midfielder as a career choice?

{Ed002's Note - Because he wants to move to Italy and wants a way out of his contract.}

21 Sep 2017 00:15:11
Drop Henderson and mignolet.

21 Sep 2017 07:19:11
Definitely shouldn't rotate the CBs at all when all fit unless out of form and the keeper situation is there for all to see - Karius/ Ward need to come in now.
I could understand slight rotation with the full backs do though baring in mind the amount of work they're asked to do and the ground they have to cover up and down the touchlines.
TAA only being 18 as well, we need to not overwork him as he needs to adjust to the rigors of a full senior league season over the next year or two I'd suggest.
As for the midfield, it's a mess in there.
If TAA eventually moves to that position as is expected of him by many, I wonder how he'd play with Keita.
We might not win many headers but it'd be an energetic midfield, that's for sure.
Not trying to get too far ahead, just daydreaming lol.

21 Sep 2017 09:57:57
Spot on, Ed. We need defined roles for the midfielders until we can play the way Klopp wants them to play. As for rotation, the back 5 need to get a rhythm together so the CB partnership (whichever it is) and the GK should stay the same till the Int'l break so they can get a rhythm. Rotating an FB here and there, won't be that bad.

The structure of the team has to change and be more defined roles-wise, to make sure everyone knows what their jobs are cos right now, it seems there is NO understanding nor communication among the players as their specific jobs hence, they look bewildered when a goal is conceded.

Check the LC firs goal to see why. Everyone rushes out to play offside BUT don't press the ball so Gomez who sees the danger tracks back BUT no one is there with him as we were too deep to play the offside to begin with. These are the issues we are having.

21 Sep 2017 10:48:27
Oh so you watched it again then and agree with me now on that goal?
You had a totally different view of it yesterday.
Not having a go at you, just asking.
Klopp by his quotes, seems to believe Gomez was at fault, unbelievable.
Though I am hoping that he spoke before seeing a replay.
Gomez could never be blamed for that goal in a million bloody years.

21 Sep 2017 13:55:11
Olisirh, Ed01 was the one who said it was not his fault so I did watch it again and with Ed01's ability to dissect things, he was correct. As for Klopp, it may be that he is saying that having not watched it again while calm as I thought so too when it happened. We are all human, after all.

21 Sep 2017 15:26:09
No Bingo, I pointed out that I believed it was the midfield's fault mate, you then jumped in and complained that i was wrong and aimed your gun at Joe Gomez. See both of our quotes below please and then tell me I'm wrong again:

"Wijnaldum was marking Okazaki at the corner, then when the ball was cleared he pushed up and out and completely lost Okazaki when technically the attack wasn't done, just in a second phase. Obviously we lost a couple of headers and Henderson was dancing on the edge of the box ball watching until the ball broke for the Japanese player, then he seemed to wake up again but it was too late and Klavan couldn't block the shot properly.
Again, in my opinion a failure to communicate either verbally or visually with each other in midfield is the main issue there. "

This is then your quote directed at me:

"OlIrish, your post is very good BUT disagree with the blame going to Hendo or any midfielder for the first goal. Watch it again. Grujic clears the ball with a good header then the whole team pushes up to play the offside. Everyone does BUT Gomez. He backpedals and keeps Morgan on side as Morgan wins the header. Now, with that happening, our boys are scampering back as our box is filled with umarked bodies. Okazaki even has the worst first touch for a striker on this ball and still manages to score. Why? Our boys were too late. Watch it again and you will see for yourself.

I will never blame Gomez for that as he is talented and needs to make mistakes so he will learn. Pretty sure he won't do that again. Apart from that, no issues with your post. "

So Bingo, clearly I was blaming the midfield, you aimed your fire at Gomez for not playing offside and you were corrected by the Editor.
It's ok to admit you're wrong sometimes mate.

20 Sep 2017
New image uploaded to the
Liverpool Player Sightings page entitled, Rooneys 6 points moves him above Everton

20 Sep 2017 19:07:36
Hi ed001
Whats your opinion about this bad run of of form we are in . is it players putting too much pressure on themselves or just not good enough. I think if we can get this bad run of form which we usually have in the second half of the season when there is lot more pressure sorted we can be good this season. YNWA.

{Ed001's Note - it just looks like early season struggles to me as the team is bedding in. I think it was Paisley that used to say it took 10 games to get a team playing as a team.}

21 Sep 2017 00:23:48
We rotate every game.

20 Sep 2017 19:18:27
Just back from my holiday, what have I missed?

I assume the shocking display against city is a distant memory and we are now back to our best. oh

Maybe I should jet off again.

20 Sep 2017 19:50:36
Please do.

20 Sep 2017 20:25:03
No, stay here as results are better with you here 👍.

20 Sep 2017 21:24:14
I feel like you are using me Ron.

20 Sep 2017 21:48:16
We're not using you! You are as important to us all as Ken Aguero's dirty pants.

Put that on your CV!

20 Sep 2017 17:39:28
There are a few too many people enjoying themselves saying I told you so about the Ox. This guy's first training session was just two weeks ago and, due to the heavy schedule, it's all been match prep and match recover since.

Klopp needs time to instil his philosophy on him, to get him playing his style. I'm still confident he'll prove his worth with us and we'll have another story like Lallana winning over the fans. The ox gets a pass from me till Christmas. By then I think the boo boys won't be so vocal.

20 Sep 2017 18:25:35
Many people on this site would rather be proven right than see Liverpool succeed.

20 Sep 2017 19:17:27
I would love to be proven wrong by the OX but I don't think it's going to happen.
Lallana was one of saints best players and captain when we signed him, it's very different.
I really just don't see how he improves out squad and only stops our promising young talent from getting a game.
Just my opinion and I have full faith in Klopp I just don't get the OX love in.

20 Sep 2017 19:29:40
Did any of you go to the Tranmere match in 2016. Manes first game.

No time needed there. Didn't need to learn anything.

Oxlade has 120 games experience in the prem. Comes from a champions league team. What does he possibly have to learn when crossing a ball? When taking on a man? When making a ten yard pass? He was and is awful. 4o million are you kidding me.

20 Sep 2017 19:52:26
Mane hadn't just spent 12 months playing left wing back in a team with no confidence, and the 5 years prior to that being used as a bit part player by an absolute imbecile of a manager.

Give the bloke a chance at least!

20 Sep 2017 20:06:43
Careful having an opinion on AOC as some on here can't see the wood for the trees.

20 Sep 2017 20:09:05
Top, the difference was Mane was brought in to play his natural game. AOC had been playing Wenger football for the last five years. He needs to unlearn that and then start playing Klopp football. It will take time but I'm confident well be impressed by the results.

20 Sep 2017 20:42:05
Never been a fan of OX BUT he is an LFC player now and will get m support. Those slating him should give over and move on.

20 Sep 2017 20:53:28
Bingo

Does that mean you could abuse players until they are signed by Liverpool. Lol! I remember you tore his undi and boxers for fun when he was at Arsenal! Lol
Now you realize the difference between having an opinion and supporting. They are totally different my dear friend!

20 Sep 2017 21:53:21
Do people not understand that under the right manager and with the right coaching methods players can actually improve?! We seem to have this football manager mentality where each player has their own score for each attribute that can't be changed. Just give the lad time to work with the team and coaching staff he said himself he's come here to improve. Let's not kill him before he even starts!

20 Sep 2017 22:09:58
I still can’t see that Oxlade can contribute anything meaningful to the team. He’s a very ordinary winger at best, his signing looks particularly stupid when you consider how awful our centre back options are and how weak we are in midfield.

20 Sep 2017 22:59:09
Like our defenders and keepers are improving with every training session and game under Klopps reign Ings. That what you mean.

21 Sep 2017 00:24:35
ACO is a player who has always been full of promise but never delivered on a regular basis. I think and he himself has admitted confidence is a big issue of his, now I'm not making excuses for someone like that he makes enough money blah blah blah etc etc etc but I do think klopp will manage to unlock something in him. Now I'm not expecting a mane but a very useful playe rlong term.

Klopp did him no favours playing him in a team like that if he is low on self esteem he'd be bette restarting against a team we'd hammer get him up and ready instead he set him up for a potential failure as has happened and eveyone on his back. Almost everything he tried failed but atleast he tried something in the opposition half the only other player to try was woodburn and our left back. Everyone else was happy with sideways passing.

21 Sep 2017 06:02:32
John

Why did he not go to a nidtable team where he would be given guarantee roles to reshape his career?

{Ed001's Note - because he wanted to play for Liverpool. He wanted to play for the team he supports.}

21 Sep 2017 12:02:02
Agreed Putney. Due to high number of games there cannot be as much training and the intensity of the training there is can't be that high surely.

I don't get fans who take pleasure in saying "see our new player is crap! told ya so" I bet you feel real rosey when you hit reply. Give the lad a chance it was his first start playing along side a few reserves among some first teamers. He is a quick skillful and strong little player who has a decent football brain. There are lapses in his game but give klopp a chance to develop him. Klopp is good but he's not uri geller!

20 Sep 2017 16:39:10
Stand, i missed your reply earlier.

I wasn't implying United are doing things wrong due to their squad age. I am a big advocate of having a blend of youth an experience which you have got perfect right now. You do things differently is all.

In 3-5 years when the likes of Micky, Mata, Fellaini, Ibra, Carrick, Valencia, Young, Herrera and the like are gone, you won't bring through any of your own players under Mourinho, or even sign young players to develop. Mourinho's idea of a young player is an already established 22/ 23 year old who costs £30-90m.

Therefore when all those players are gone, he'll want mega bucks to replace them. By contrast, we need to have a crop of cheaper younger players already coming through to take over so we don't have to scratch about for bargain basement stop gaps like Matip, Milner, Lambert and Klavan.

Genuine question; do you think Rashford will hang around playing as a winger when he is a better striker? He'll never get to play there though because Mou would rather pay Ibra massive money and pay £80m for Lukaku. I see Rashford going to Spurs or Arsenal in a few years time purely because he will be replaced by a big money signing for instant success.

I'm not for one second saying it doesn't work by the way. You'll be an elite club for a good few years doing that, but it is unsustainable (hence why Mourinho always leaves after a short spell as manager at every club without exception) . He never plans for a smooth transition into a next generation because he never plans on staying anywhere for very long! So when the time comes that a lot of players are too old, he will jump ship and leave a mess for someone else to come and fix. United have a revenue stream which practically makes their resources unlimited so they can afford to go through that cycle every 3-5 years, and Chelsea and City have investment money from over seas that we also cannot match.

Klopp has to plan for the future because we can't afford to buy our way out of a transition in 5 years time. Your transition takes a year with a good manager because of the cash you have. Our transition takes 27 years and counting because we're skint 😂

We need to have a constant conveyer of younger players from our own or other academies so that we can supplement the squad with them and only have to go big on a few players a year. United pay more wages and transfer fees for squad players than we can afford on players for the starting 11! We need the likes of Ward, Karius, Arnold, Gomez, Robertson, Grujic, Can, Woodburn, Kent, Origi, Solanke etc because probably only 4 of them will come good and then only 2 of them will stay with the club! We live in a different world.

United can afford to gut the team every few years and just pay for a new one. We can't. It's no criticism of the way you are doing it mate. It works and gets much quicker results than the way we are doing it, but it is also far more expensive and unless you have the cash, you have to do what Liverpool and Spurs are trying to do. You are not our model for success. Dortmund and Athletico Madrid are.

Hope i didn't offend you mate. I was just trying to explain to some of our fans why we have to have patience and do things differently to yourselves. The last time we had a manager (Rafa) who tried to compete with United and Chelsea financially the club almost went bust due to a wage bill and debts it could not finance. People have short memories and forget that very quickly though.

{Ed025's Note - good post that MK..

20 Sep 2017 17:33:41
Great post, MK.

20 Sep 2017 17:36:31
Liverpool were in trouble because of H&G and the interest they leveraged against the club. You do realise that Rafa had Lfcin the CL every season bar 1 and generating very substantial income due to the reasonable success he had in it?

20 Sep 2017 17:58:28
Excellent post and very true MK.

20 Sep 2017 18:18:29
Rover, Rafa had over 50 players on the wage bill at one stage. For his time he also spent a lot of money trying to play Chelsea and United at their own game. His squads were always bloated and largely full of average players because he didn't have the money he was spending. Rafa was as much to blame fir our financial predicament as H&G. He just got off with the fans because he loved the club and brought us relative success compared to the 15 which preferred him. It didn't work though and it was completely unsustainable for a club with our revenue stream.

We are not there yet. We can get there, but it takes time. We are 20 years at least behind Man Utd on the commercial side of things, and about 10 years behind Chelsea and Arsenal.

City are not at there yet either but that doesn't matter when you are owned by an oil oligarch with rich fiends to help you bypass FFP rules.

20 Sep 2017 18:37:20
*15 years preceding him* auto correct 😐.

20 Sep 2017 18:42:09
Mk. Liverpool gained there biggest profit circa £8 million in 07 (i think) . It took Lfc another 7 years to make another profit (£900,000). To my memory they also made a net £30 million profit in the next season only to be wiped out by £36 million interest because of H&G leverage. Liverpools wage bill was the 4th highest behind United, Chelsea and Arsenal. So it was in line with their standing at the time. You have clearly disregarded the revenue Rafa brought into the club with his CL success (circa £20 million a season) .

20 Sep 2017 18:26:26
Cracking post.

20 Sep 2017 19:07:11
Also Rafa signed 54 players in his time which is a lot but he sold or released 70 in the same time. So im not too sure where you are getting this squad of 50 from. In only 1 season (04/ 05) did he sign more players than he released (1 more) .

20 Sep 2017 20:05:35
No idea of the facts and figures so i won't dispute them. Whatever the books said, Rafa wasted a lot of money. Itandje, Cavalieri, Degen, Johnson, Pauletta, Skrtel, Plessis, Dossena, Aurelio, El Zhar, Babel, Leto, Keane, Riera, Pennant, N'Gog, Voronin, Cisse, Morientes, Bellamy, Aquilani etc.

Don't let a few financial statistics paper over that buddy. Can't argue with the official figures and Rafa did earn a lot of revenue through CL qualification and progression. But he also wasted a lot of it trying to sign too many players. Although he sold as many as he signed, most of his sales were at a massive loss, and you have to consider the wages and agent fees we must've blown on such a constant squad rebuilding every summer.

If the club actually broke even most years, fair play but those figures sound wrong to me, considering the club was running at a £1m a week deficit when FSG took over. And it is impossible to deny he wasted money, even if he was making as much back. Regarding the 50 man squad, i remember reading it on here once but no idea if it was from an Ed or another poster. But we apparently had over 50 players on first team squad salaries. So some of them were probably over paid youth prospects to be fair.

20 Sep 2017 20:41:04
Keep up the good work mk I am starting to really enjoy your work. Not quite Harry level but I take my hat off to you.

20 Sep 2017 20:48:48
Can't comment on those nos., Rover BUT we do know this much: Rafa spent money and recruited over 70 players all together, most of which were average or simply poor. Simply having 50 players on the wage bill is damning in itself and is unacceptable. Rafa tried to play a game he was never going to win cos he had not enough cash to back it up. It tooke years for us to get out of that mess and we are just regaining our footing financially at this point BUT we lag behind the other rivals considerably. That is his fault and his only. No one else.

20 Sep 2017 20:58:04
Cheers Walter!

20 Sep 2017 21:51:08
Im no huge Rafa fan, but you can't ignore that he bought us some good players aswell. Alonso, Garcia, Reina, Agger, Bellamy, Aurelio, Kuyt, Arbeloa, Mascherano, Lucas, Maxi, Sterling.

21 Sep 2017 00:12:36
MK, no offence at all mate. I always enjoy your posts, I think your one of the better posters to be honest. I obviously mistook what you were getting at. And I agree, we clearly are on anther level to Liverpool. I hate when other people label us the same as City and Chelsea though, not that you did, just in general. Obviously city and Chelsea have cash from sugar daddy owners. We're different and we earn our cash.

I genuinly think both Rashford and Martial are special talents mate. And I think both will be at the club long term. I personally don't want Zlatan back, but in reality it's only 6 months, and it's an option if Lukaku is injured or needs resting, although I'd rather play one of Rashford or Martial through the middle if Lukaku is out.

The big difference with Jose is he is much better in the market that the last two fools. When you looks at the signings Moyes and LVG made, only Mata and Hererra were good signings really. Under Jose, we've had Bailly, Miki, Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, and then Zlatan on free and Lindelof. The squad is so much stronger this season. We have spent a lot but it's spent well imo.

I suppose the question is will Klopp be given that time to build a squad? People comment on Jose leaving clubs after 2/ 3 years, but at clubs like Madrid and Chelsea your out the door with no silverware. I think he'll stay longer at united. If Klopp is trophyless again this season how long will be be before the fans turn, or fsg decide enough is enough? Interesting times ahead anyway mate.

21 Sep 2017 03:33:00
No doubt Stoupid. Was just making the point that he did waste a lot. Not sure Bellamy and Aurelio can go on the good signing list though. One lasted a season and got moved on for fighting with team mates, and the other played about 5 games a season.

Cheers for the reply Stand. Yeah your money comes from your revenue stream so to my mind it's fair game until they make rules which stop it.

{Ed001's Note - second time round Bellers had a good spell.}

21 Sep 2017 12:03:03
Yeah good post mk. There is a strange pride I feel (even though I of course have had nothing to do with it except buy shirts etc) when I see a youth player making it in ghe first team. Especially when they are a success. It's all relative and scouting is key. We are getting keita for half the money utd paid for pogba and keita looks the better player to me (definitely a better dancer)

Regarding rashford (who I rate and would rather have at lfc than lukaku) I was told he is a manc and loves utd, he will probably out last Jose at utd. He should be playing up front though. It won't happen coz he doesn't weigh 20 stone, I don't think would go to spurs to play up front coz of a guy called harry kane, if they changed their formation, rashford kane and alli would be a hell of a front line.

20 Sep 2017 14:16:36
Thanks for the response yesterday Ed001. It was interesting watching the game yesterday with what was spoken about in mind. The players seem to be unable to take initiative and klopp looked exasperated that they weren't able to translate whatever his instructions were on to the pitch. Do you think the way forward is to simplify the game plan, giving players more defined roles? Or do you think we have the players at the club who are capable of playing with more in game intelligence and we'd be better off persisting with the current system in the long run?
Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - we clearly do not have players capable of figuring it out, which is why recruitment is key. The problem with giving players more defined roles is that it becomes potentially easier for the opposition to defend against. If you don't know which player will make a run, you have to prepare yourself for both eventualities, but if you know it is only one of the midfield who will break forward, you can shadow him closer, block off the runs or even man mark him if you set up correctly. It is a trade off. If we can find the right players, then recruit them and stick with Klopp's system. If we can't, then we will have to adapt and become more rigid.}

20 Sep 2017 14:39:22
Do you think we have many players at the club currently who could excel if we made the right additions? Lallana and firmino stand out to me, but is there any others who are struggling because of who's around them and would improve with more intelligent team mates? (Sorry I hope that makes sense) .

{Ed001's Note - Gomez I would say is defo one. I think the problem is that I would really be struggling to name another, possibly TAA though.}

20 Sep 2017 14:40:39
Does the recruitment staff need to be looked at again? Or would that just cause more issues?

{Ed001's Note - some parts of recruitment need overhauling defo.}

20 Sep 2017 15:00:48
Been saying for ages an outside face should have been brought in as sporting director to do a review of the whole recruitment dept.

20 Sep 2017 15:29:53
What would you do Ed mate?

{Ed001's Note - a sporting director would be a great start I agree. Someone to take charge of the whole recruitment process and ensure it is done correctly.}

20 Sep 2017 15:47:53
Would JK work with one? Thank's for your replies Ed.

{Ed001's Note - he did at both Mainz 05 and Dortmund.}

20 Sep 2017 16:11:50
We have a sporting director, question really is whether Edwards is up for the job or not.

20 Sep 2017 16:13:46
Hopefully someone within the club might suggest that option to him.

20 Sep 2017 16:17:13
Ed, Klopp showed that he could be rigid when need be as he switched the system last season to become more protective of the back four with Lucas Holding and Can helping when he is required. This led to us being more solid as we knew our forward line would score goals. Should that happen now with more define roles? Ed has said the pros and cons of doing that so it is not that easy.

Also, Ed is showing that coaching and management is not as black and white as people think and his first response proves that point. This is why I and many others, don't just come out to moan and moan as there is a lot of things to be understood behind the scenes when a coach makes a decision. Keep those response coming Ed as I am getting well-informed as to why things are the way it is and why Klopp does or not do, what he does or not do.

20 Sep 2017 16:17:13
Ed, Klopp showed that he could be rigid when need be as he switched the system last season to become more protective of the back four with Lucas Holding and Can helping when he is required. This led to us being more solid as we knew our forward line would score goals. Should that happen now with more define roles? Ed has said the pros and cons of doing that so it is not that easy.

Also, Ed is showing that coaching and management is not as black and white as people think and his first response proves that point. This is why I and many others, don't just come out to moan and moan as there is a lot of things to be understood behind the scenes when a coach makes a decision. Keep those response coming Ed as I am getting well-informed as to why things are the way it is and why Klopp does or not do, what he does or not do.

{Ed001's Note - cheers mate.}

20 Sep 2017 13:16:33
I thought we played ok last nite at times, but sadly lads we will concede goals every match playing the way we do. We play 433 with 8 attacking and 2 defending. It's fine when the other team is attacking us cause r 433 turns into a 451 and we look solid enuf, the problem is when we r attacking and lose the ball we only have 2 defenders at the back. Think we need to invest in a proper holding midfielder some 1 who likes defending and doesn't want to get forward in every attack. Klopp won't change formation so sadly until we get rite players this problem will continue.

20 Sep 2017 13:33:53
I did put up a post regarding System and players and how they should compliment each other. Our system demands certain type of players otherwise you will see the struggle.
If Klopp doesn't want to change the system then fair enough but he should man up and buy players who fit in! He should also drop players in need!

20 Sep 2017 13:52:31
To be fair Harry, he did try.

He wanted Keita and VVD. A midfielder with the power to get up and down for a full 90, and a centre back with the pace to play in a high line.

He didn't get them, but he tried. He is giving Henderson every chance to prove his fitness and adapt to a holding role. He's showing a bit of loyalty to our club captain. If you don't want us to show players loyalty, then you can't also expect the players to show the club any loyalty!

I have no doubt that if Henderson cannot stay fit and adapt to the role by the end of the season, he will probably be phased out next year.

Don't chastise a manager for having patience and faith in his players though. He doesn't have faith in Mignolet or Lovren before anyone tries that on, hence why he has tried to replace them both.

20 Sep 2017 15:01:41
Oh MK! You are making me emotional and that bad guy 😄. I give it you over this one! It's not that I don't like him MK. I do!

20 Sep 2017 16:30:50
Klopp has a clear idea of what he wants and what players he wants to fill it as in the way he went after Salah (I know 3rd choice BUT who cares right now), Mane, Naby and VVD. These are the core players he wanted and wants to fill in the jigsaw. He got all globally BUT VVD which he will clearly go for again. Also, Lallana's injury is NOT helping right now as our midfield 2/ 3 are too similar in nature. Lallana offers diff. things that clearly, our team is lacking right now. We just have to keep the faith and stop this manager bashing cos it is not helping esp. when the Ed's have told us what Klopp is trying to do which I agree with and I'm ready to wait for him to come good. We ain't won the league in 27 years so what will waiting another 3 years hopefully, change?

20 Sep 2017 19:40:47
I'm sorry lads, I like Klopp too but if you haven't got the players to play the system and the transfer window is shut then you have to change the system.
You don't say, "ah well, I tried and sabotaged my own efforts, so we'll play this way and forget the results".

A managers job is to get the best results out of the players at his disposal and if that means not defending with a high line then that's what you do!

20 Sep 2017 20:58:01
But we don't defend deep either as we are not good defensively under pressure, Ron. You have to look at the nuances involved as context matters. Teams who defend deep normally have players back to protect the defence. Klopp does not play that way and never has, like it or not. Can't teach an old dog new tricks. Not saying I like that but just saying it is not as cut and dry as you think. Ed01 has said as much based on the info he has given.

20 Sep 2017 21:19:42
A good manager can adapt to his circumstances.

If you're saying Klopp can't do that then I'm afraid you're saying he's not a good manager.
You have to be versatile, managing teams is not painting by numbers, you have to be clever enough to work out solutions to your problems.

{Ed001's Note - Jose Mourinho just moulds the team to the exact same template he always uses, he is a very good manager. Brian Clough didn't adapt either, he built the team the way he wanted it to operate. It really depends on the circumstances Ron.}

20 Sep 2017 21:57:02
But Klopp has, so far, failed to mould his players to play in his system. Either that or his system is not suited to the English game.

I just can't work out why he doesn't protect the back line. He even said in his PC that he's "sick" of conceding these goals. So why not do something about it. Every outsider looking in can see it, it's as though Klopp is blind to it.

Even his signings baffle me. I know he wanted a winger and I know Salah is doing well, but why not look at the biggest weaknesses first? Did we need Oxlade Chamberlain? No, we needed a new keeper and new defenders or a defensive midfielder.

20 Sep 2017 12:33:58
Is ot just me or wasnt klopp not really interested to win last night. The changes suggested he wasnt concerned aboutwinning. Blamed the defenders because fans are allready blaming them for everything. can't come out and say bot really interested in a small trophy can he?

20 Sep 2017 13:02:04
trophy is a trophy and this cup was our only realistic chance of silverware. We will not win the Pl or Cl, so Fa cup is the only other hope left for us. another good reason to like this cup is because kids get a chance to play in them, now they won't play at all.

20 Sep 2017 14:13:28
Crazy horse, so your suggestion then is don't play the kids in the cup; Play the first choice players so that we can stay in the cup and give the kids a chance?

Just accept that we played a fair few young players, a couple of new players, a couple of players returning from injury, and then padded the rest of the team out with squad players. We were giving them a chance to stake a claim in the first team and aside from Ward and arguably Robertson they didn't do it. I did see enough from Gomez, Solanke and Woodburn to look forward to them progressing under Klopp though. I also thought Chamberlain looked okay at times in between playing terribly, but he was trying way too hard to impress; attempting things not natural to his normal game and over hitting passes, crosses and shots because he wasn't calm enough. It'll happen for him too though once he is comfortable in the side and Klopp has had a few months to get him back firing.

20 Sep 2017 14:39:56
I want tony pulis as manager or defensive coach at least we will think defence 1st, it seems it's impossible too fix problem.

20 Sep 2017 16:38:12
Hailstones, then forget about us scoring the amount of goals we do and the fluid football we play cos Pulis will have Mane and Salah playing as extra FB's like he has Mclean and Phillips doing.

As for the OP, you can't have it both ways. You say you want us to stay in the Cup and say we should have played our starters. Had we done that, won the game and our starters look jaded on Sat, you would be complaining as asking why Klopp did not field a diff. team. You say the kids should get a chance and when they do and they lose a game, you still complain. Make up your mind, mate.

20 Sep 2017 18:20:18
Was just a joke meet chill ya beans would like him as defensive coach.

20 Sep 2017 20:58:58
With you on the def. coach tip, Hail.

21 Sep 2017 10:56:28
Yeah, I always hate losing but I feel for the kids as this was obviously going to be their platform. Was a tough game to start with. Midfield like butter.

20 Sep 2017 11:45:09
Ward is a no brainer to play at the weekend.
Classy at his feet, kicked long when he had too. Players seemed to trust passing back to him.
Came and caught 2/ 3 corners, which is massive seeing as we can't defend them. Then 1 catch, on the 18 yard box?! He had about as much right to catch that as I do to slap my mum. It was outrageous.
He's About our only gk with confidence and aerial ability.
Do it klopp, do it.

20 Sep 2017 12:23:01
Hopefully klopp isn't completely dumb.

20 Sep 2017 13:15:32
Ward did everything he was called upon to do competently and effectively. I just feel sorry for him having to be behind a defence containing Klavan.

20 Sep 2017 14:09:55
He should play. but he won't.

20 Sep 2017 14:25:14
Last keeper to come that far and collect the ball ( most of the time ) was brucie. showing my age now.

20 Sep 2017 16:04:07
Mignolet will play.

20 Sep 2017 16:42:55
Ward is still inexperienced at this level so people need to chill out. Even Karius is still unproven. However, Migs should be benched as he is clearly inferior to the other two.

20 Sep 2017 17:23:03
Ward looks good, Mignolet isn't exactly setting the world on fire, keep him in. As many have mentioned the constant rotation in defence has not helped them - pick a back 5 and stick with it. Preferably one with a competent keeper.

20 Sep 2017 18:33:02
I agree, Seano and Klopp has messed this up, big time. He does not rate Migs BUT keeps playing him The rotation thingy is a shambles. Migs is crap so he should be benched and never recalled regardless of the mistakes Ward or Karius makes as they have more margin to improve as they are both better than Migs, clearly while Migs is who and what he is, a failure.

20 Sep 2017 11:35:58
Partly to change the subject and partly because of an interesting post on Huddersfield Academy yesterday I wanted to talk about youth development. I think youth development is fundamentally flawed at the big clubs, putting aside the damage done to smaller academies by hoovering up all their talent (see Huddersfield) it is more efficient for a rich club to pay for a player than for them to develop one. Academies take years to train a player and their output has a poor record. If you look at the big 6 clubs there are only 11 home trained players (this includes Solanke who was trained at Chelsea) in their first team squads. Of those 11 only 2 are established first 11 player (Kane and Rashford), 4 are hoping to establish themselves (Iwobi, Winks, TAA and Solanke), 3 are hanging on by their fingernails (Wilshire, Lingard and Flanagan) and the last two are just pups starting out (Walker-Peters and Woodburn) .

If you look at our players nationally we have a terrible reputation, in terms of our talent pool we should be on a par with Italy, France and Spain (Germany’s is an order bigger) but these countries are outperforming us, why? I believe it’s because the clubs in those countries can’t afford to fix all their problems with money and are therefore forced to utilise their youth players. Furthermore countries like Holland and Portugal are outperforming us, despite having much smaller talent pools, probably because they are ‘selling’ leagues; they have fully established youth development programmes and their best talent is continually stripped meaning there are plenty of opportunities for their youths to prove themselves. It’s similar in South America, with a one way flow of talent across the atlantic there are always opportunities for talented and determined young players.

In England there are two problems, the youth players don’t have the same route to the first team at the big clubs and, those who are so talented that they force their way through, often struggle from ‘too much, too soon’ syndrome and lack the work ethic that marks out the truly great players. If you compare Kane or Rashford to Wilshire the former two both got their opportunities by good fortune (failure of Solgado and an injury crisis respectively) as opposed to Wilshire who was told he was destined for the top from age 16.

Whilst it is always great to see a home-grown player break into the first team it has become such a rare occurrence and the current system is so damaging, that I think it should end. Essentially I wouldn’t want young talent playing at a big club until around 21. What advantage would this have? All the young talent in the country would move to smaller clubs where there is a route to the first team. As they couldn’t move till they were older they’d serve full apprenticeships rather than sit on a bench somewhere else. Furthermore they wouldn’t receive ridiculous wages early on robbing them of their desire to improve. The Championship is a very competitive league and it’s standards are probably similar or higher to a lot of the minor leagues around Europe, it should be utilised as a breeding ground for talent.

I think a rule along the lines of ‘Players must be 21 or older on the date of the first PL game of the season to be eligible to play in the PL. Players who were registered at clubs who have been promoted from the Championship in the last three seasons are exempt’. Such a system would hold back the u-21s who are of a sufficient quality and desire but those players would still make it, just a couple of years later. What do people think, ridiculous or could it work?

20 Sep 2017 12:11:50
Whilst i more or less agree with your post Putney, having an age cap i feel would also restrict a players ability to learn. Do you not thnk a young 18-19 year old training with the likes of Ronalso, Ibra, Coutinho etc would help develop their game? I would mi=uch rather learn as much as i can from these types of players.

20 Sep 2017 12:39:05
That's an interest point stuie and one I hadn't considered. My gut feeling is that's a nice to have but not as important as good coaching. How many of those players you mentioned were training with greats themselves when they were teenagers?

{Ed001's Note - the best players were not coached to be great, the Bests etc. Coaching hones what is there. I would say we need to find a way to bring back more impromptu fun games of football for children. When I was growing up, you could have anything from 3 kids up to 50 or 60 on any scrap of ground we could find. Now there are cars everywhere, kids are too afraid to kick a ball around in the streets.}

20 Sep 2017 12:56:26
The countries whose youths seem more progressive and ahead in most parts in my mind are germany, holland and spain (leave south american teams out of this convo) all have one thing i can think of in common obviously extreme players like asencio in spain go straight towards their first team but all these leagues are set up so their second teams which are mainly u23 players all play in lower division leagues against senior sides (in spain they are called b and c sides, germanys 2nd (II) and in holland they are called jong. just so you can see what i mean) . What this does in my opinion is gets them used to playing against adults for the want of a better word helps get used to the physicality of the game.

{Ed001's Note - more to the point, at least in Spain from what I saw anyway, there is lots of space for kids to kick a ball about and they usually are out playing, not stuck indoors.}

20 Sep 2017 12:59:01
I agree that things have changed ed, but I doubt they'll go back to how they were. I think there's still loads of talent in England, I just don't think it's being managed correctly. In a better system Wilshire, Barkley and Sterling would be world class. Instead they're wasted talents.

20 Sep 2017 14:36:27
I think its bigger than just a football issue in UK, though that side of it could be far improved upon.

To me part of it is society and government related, for example I live across from a park that I grew up playing football in junior and youth leagues as well as just kicking a ball about with my mates, for years now the council have stopped maintaining the park and it doesn't even have goalposts any more - I see this replicated all around.

21 Sep 2017 10:54:39
Agree with the Ed on this one. I coach youth football. now I'm no expert and only have level 1 and I don't claim to be a brilliant coach. But my philosophy is on encouraging them to play with passion, enjoyment and without fear of trying something.

I'm not suggesting I'm ever going to coach the next England star but even at the basic level I coach at, I've seen a marked improvement in the way they play. What I am now introducing to them is that best for the team mentality so they don't sulk when they have to play in defence 😉.

20 Sep 2017 11:05:59
So funny reading all the comments like 'when are our fringe players going to get any playing time now', they got playing time last night and they lost or did everybody miss that? Or should we have played a full strength team first round and then the fringe players after that?

20 Sep 2017 11:24:58
My issue wasn't the team picked, the first half they played well and did themselves proud it was the premature substitute of countho that annoyed me, granted woodburn was the best player the second half but Coutinho is somebody regardless of how absent he may be can score a goal form noWhere, they made a positive change and ours was reactive in the end.

20 Sep 2017 11:30:23
Exactly mate. Klopp can't win.

20 Sep 2017 11:32:44
Considering you had the likes of Coutinho, Gomez (most want first choice) , Robertson, Ward (your best keeper) , Henderson, Gini, The OX (£40m signing) , and Leicester also played fringe players, I think your fellow fans were hoping for better to be honest.

20 Sep 2017 11:49:09
Cant believe myself agreeing with a united supporter.

20 Sep 2017 11:56:37
Thank you stand, Leicester former champions also played with Iborra (15m) and gray (20m bid turned down this summer) (many would argue should be first choice) Chilwell, dragovic ( their best cb) Albrighton, Ndidi (15m) and slimani (25-30m) and I'm sure the Leicester fans would also have been disappointed to be beaten with this team had they lost to us. Or am I missing this? Next point please.

20 Sep 2017 11:58:16
Johnbarnes you're unhappy with the substitution but feel his replacement was the best player, you can see coutinhos still not ready can't you?

20 Sep 2017 18:47:24
Indeed, Klopp can't win. People always like to be geniuses after the fact. Cou was prolly already earmarked to play 45 mins as he clearly can't play 90 right now BUT clearly, that is too difficult to understand to the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" people on here. Always got something to moan about. It's getting boring now. Give over.

20 Sep 2017 11:04:32
Id like to have a say abouut the goalkeeper situation, Im not going to bash anyone just give my humble opinion based on what i've read over the past few weeks, seen and my own experiences. From what i've read and seems to be the general consensus, Mignolet is being fazed out and its a two horse race so surely the sooner it happens the better for the club and the players, from the limited playing time i've seen I feel both are better than Mignolet. Now here is where my experiences and preferences come into my thinking, Back in the early 80's when i was 14 i started playing mens football as a centerback the position was actually called a sweeper back then. i recall the goalkeeper at the time whok i known from the local GAA side taking me aside and telling me if he calls for the ball in the air to get out of the way as he would wipe me out aswell as any forward to get the ball, low and behold i had a brain fart went for a header after he called and the next thing i knew he was picking me off the ground telling me to listen better. Now from that day forward i learned the lessen and always preferred a keeper that commands his area and for that reason from what limited game time i've seen i prefer Ward for the goalkeeper spot but Klopp needs to get it sorted as in the #1 position sooner rather than later.
sorry for the story but gets across the point i think.

20 Sep 2017 11:16:50
Just that one move when he came out to the edge of the box to claim the cross was enough for me. At least he had the bottle to do it.

He couldn't do anything about the goals but I think he's a better option than minger or Klopps love child.

Give him a run .

20 Sep 2017 11:23:08
Sweeper was usually in behind the two CBs if not mistaken but none the less I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of part of a goalkeeper's role.
He simply has to command his area and be on his toes when an attack is developing or be caught flat footed for a snap shot or whatever comes his way. There's literally inches in the difference from becoming a world class goalkeeper and just a normal one.
You are more likely to react quicker if on your toes to be able to command your area, quicker on your feet.
It's one of my biggest critisms of Mignolet. He's flat footed a lot of the time. Ward came to the edge of his area last night to claim a ball lofted in and it was a delight to behold - a Liverpool keeper dominate his box.
Mignolet can't/ won't do it. He did once to be fair against Burnley but my heart was in my mouth when he did as he doesn't show confidence. When Ward came to claim last night, I had no fears. Says it all sadly.

20 Sep 2017 11:39:06
I think there's an assumption that migs is being phased out. Rightly or wrongly the evidence is that he is first choice at the club.

{Ed001's Note - he is being phased out. It is not an assumption. If things had gone according to plan, he would have been phased out last season.}

20 Sep 2017 12:45:58
I know that was the plan ed, do you think it still is? Klopp had been pretty adament that Migs is number one and the others will play in the cups. Of course Migs is always in danger of being dropped but that's different to being phased out.

{Ed001's Note - he still plans to get rid of Migs. What Klopp says publicly, like all managers, is irrelevant and best ignored.}

20 Sep 2017 13:00:37
Got it, think we're just arguing semantics.

{Ed001's Note - probably.}

20 Sep 2017 18:53:55
Ed, Inknew that he was getting the chop gradually as soon as he gut punished and dropped for the Arsenal game. Now when Klopp said that he is using Karius for the CL to get him game time, I was then sure that Migs is a goner and it is only a matter of time before Karius takes the gloves. He and Ward are clearly better GK's than him and Klopp knows that so he is doing things bay steps. Now for thos saying Ward is better than Karius (as Migs ia a non factor), let's see what happens cos regardless of what one thinks, they are both inexperienced at the PL level. Time will tell BUT remember that Klopp signed Karius, not Ward and he will give Karius every oppo to win the job. Managers often do that in these situations.

20 Sep 2017 09:25:02
Being scottish i find it truly disappointing klavan isn't eligible to play for england.

20 Sep 2017 09:40:52
Who would he replace? Lol!

20 Sep 2017 11:10:04
He's good enough to captain Scotland though :)

20 Sep 2017 11:18:24
he'd walk into the Scottish team tho!

20 Sep 2017 08:41:40
I get that we are going through a bad patch and it is really upsetting/ frustrating. What i don't get is people being so quick to turn on Klopp/ players/ other fans etc. This happened last January when we lost Mane so i am not sure why people are acting so surprised.

This is why i said we shouldn't drop Salah. Without a proper goal threat, teams just see us off until we make a mistake or get tired. I thought Klopp realised this and that was why he signed Salah. With Mane banned there is no way he should've been dropped. Suicidal decision in my opinion, but clearly he wanted to give Grujic and Woodburn a chance. That game will have been excellent for their development. So although Klopps decision was risky, you have to accept he has done it with a long term vision in mind.

If you people can't accept that young players make mistakes, then maybe you should stop asking for them to get chances, or stop complaining when a player like Suso ends up at AC Milan because we didn't have enough patience. Obviously, Klopp hasn't prioritised this competition.

We will come through this patch just like we came through January. So just chill. Every team has a bad spell in every season. Let's just hope this is ours out the way early!

In my opinion we've only really had one bad game and that was the Burnley one where we've drawn 1-1 having had 35 shots. The 5-0 loss to City was down to a red card, the 2-2 draw with Sevilla was a decent result against a good side, and the defeat yesterday wad clearly down to Klopp not prioritising the competition. Even the Burnley draw, we may look back on as a decent point because so far they are taking point off all the big boys.

We've had a tough 10 days. City away, Sevilla in the CL, a resolute Burnley, and then an away trip to Leicester in a cup Klopp didn't really want to be in.

It will pick back up. Mane is nearly back, Salah will play again this weekend, and Klopp and the kids will have learned a lot from these games. Sometimes you have to lose a few to learn.

20 Sep 2017 08:57:08
You are delude MK but that's fine under this circumstance. You are yet again drifting away nicely from the actual issue!

20 Sep 2017 09:05:58
Personally i think you are just making excuses. Who said Klopp didn't want to be in this competition? Is he that arrogant that he doesn't want to be in a competition when he hasn't won a trophy in ages or have LFC?
I could flip your theory on its head and say we have had 1 good result all season (against Arsenal) . Now that we are out of this cup, where do all the fringe players get their game time now? Wait until January and hope we get an easy draw in the FA Cup, nearly 4 months away? Anyway, we are out of the easiest chance we have this season of winning a trophy, it was good enough for Man Utd, semmingly not good enough for Klopp tho.

20 Sep 2017 09:14:19
I am in love with Irish rover 😎😎😎 posta these days ha ha.

20 Sep 2017 09:28:13
What is deluded about MK's post? You may disagree and I know perspective is now extinct among our fans BUT MK diagnosed the situation perfectly. The only thing I would add is that we should have crushed Sevilla and beaten Burnley had we taken our chances BUT at least, the chances are being created. Our issues at the back are obvious so no need relitigating that BUT to me, there is positivity to be taken from this situation even tho the frustration is clearly palpable.

Irish, no one knows if he prioritized the EFL Cup or not so we can't say. Also, you saying we've had one good result all season is patently false. Did the Hoff bashing no longer count? How are we in the CL proper w/ o that victory? Did the CP win (a team who has won at Anfield 3 times in a row) no longer count? Look, you are free to have your opinion BUT you are not free to have your own facts.

20 Sep 2017 09:30:09
Have to agree with the Irish Rover mainly here, sorry.
But all is far from lost, we'll come good again.
It has already been a bit of a roller-coaster and not even xmas yet.

20 Sep 2017 09:38:00
Bingo who said it was a fact, learn to read the posts man. MK argued that we have only really one bad result (against Burnley), so rolling over against City, drawing with Watford, getting beat by Leicester are ok results? So by the same analogy Arsenal is our only good result this season. Its nonsense.

20 Sep 2017 09:41:09
Harry I'm not deluded. I'm a realist. I'm also able to see the wood through the trees unlike most on here who have tunnel vision and memories like goldfish.

Rover that is your own prerogative mate. If you want to dramatize everything because you don't want to view things with any perspective, then sure. Do it. Arsenal was our best result, agreed.

We drew 3-3 with Watford and two of their goals get disallowed on another day. Still came away with a point away from home. We the smashed Hoffenheim 6-3 home and away; this is a team who hadn't lost at home in over a year. We've ground out a result against Palace who parked the bus. Something we struggle against historically. Then we demolished Arsenal in the best performance from a Premier league team all season, only for the media to spin it all on a bad Arsenal performance. We were all over City before a sucker punch goal and a red card turned the game on it's head. We were all over Sevilla but they nicked a couple of goals and we missed a penalty. We were all over Burnley but we were let down by a combination of a defensive error from an 18 year old, a penalty not given, and a collective brain fart in front of goal. Then we have gone away to Leicester with basically Henderson, Wijnaldum, plus people returning from injury, kids, and squad players. Even still we were the better team for an hour until Okazaki came on and changed the game.

If you want to put a negative gloss on everything, cool. You do that. But be sure to come and admit you were wrong when Klopp gets it all to click and we go on a decent run of form.

We haven't played a single game yet with Mane, Firmino, Coutinho, Salah and Lallana on the pitch together. When we get that front 5 out there all fit and on form, i don't see any reason why we can't go 10-15 games unbeaten and take some good teams to the cleaners in the process.

It's all over reaction and doom/ gloom on here right now and you all just look silly. We've only lost twice and both defeats had reasons. One a red card (so sell Mane yeah? ), and one us playing a team with no cohesion to give people game time (so sell Solanke, Gomez, Woodburn and Grujic? ) . That isn't excuses, it's a fact. So you are all pretty much crying over a draw against Sevilla and a draw against Burnley, where we easily played well enough to win had a few penalties gone our way and been scored.

I'm not an optimist or a pessimist. I'm a realist who would rather look at things constructively, instead of just smiling or crying. The glass isn't half full or half empty. The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

Get over it, princess.

20 Sep 2017 09:50:14
The premier league is our target and should always be our main priority.
All the teams playing in the cup compitition play weakened teams.
Our style of play will always give teams chances or half chances against us.
I can see why he played that team, the fact that some of them will not see a full game till January is down to themselves and the luck of the draw.
We do have a soft belly at this moment, but i do believe we will soon get back on track.

20 Sep 2017 09:51:19
I actually said bad game, not bad result. Anything less than a win i consider a bad result.

I'm not going to judge us on results only after 6 weeks with lots of strenuating circumstances ie. Coutinho sulk, Lallana injury, Mane suspension, Arnold/ Gomez (god forbid) daring to be young players trying to break through.

You have no patience so you whinge. Go support Man United, Chelsea or Real Madrid if you want everything handed to you on a plate which cost £700-£900m.

20 Sep 2017 10:18:50
MK
We used this cup competitions as an excuse to recruit infinite players over the summer. We need squad depth! We need squad depth was the main slogan on this page. If you don't give a duck about the FA and league why Buy?

The reality is we would love to win any trophy atm! Now since we are out we need to find some ways to defend it! That is what you are doing my friend!
The last trophy we won was a league cup under Kenny!

Nothing wrong in trying to drift away from the actual issue that's caused our exit but let's be real and understand why are loosing games rather than everything is a glitch and we will be fine in 72 hours!
There is a definite reason for our poor form and if you are aware of it kindly pass to other who aren't!

20 Sep 2017 10:37:08
Oh dear me. We are a few games in and we are using the "if we had a few penalties gone our way" excuse? Really? We are 9 games in and failed to win more than half, you at clutching at straws sugar pie. Out of 1 of the 3 trophies we could have won and the easiest one at that. So you just keep beating your optimistic drum sweet cheeks. I think i am the one who is a realist. What is you ambition for this season then? let's put a wager on it, £100 to the charity of Ed001's choice and a grovelling apology? Put your money where you mouth is honey bunch.

{Ed001's Note - what if he doesn't have a £100? Or, like me, he just doesn't gamble?}

20 Sep 2017 10:37:08
Sorry, but the results and performances against Watford, Burnley, Man City, Sevilla and Leicester were simply not good enough. I honestly cannot see where our next points will come from in the league? Next two games are away and then a home game against a Man United team who are clearly better and more well organised. I can see us losing all three games on current form.

20 Sep 2017 10:38:38
Great Post MK, I can also see what Klopp is trying to do mate. When it all comes together we will be the ones enjoying watching our team winning games consistently, playing free flowing attacking football. Non of this playing 6 at the back hoping to get a breakthrough with a deflected corner or free kick.
Klopp is trying to develop players but the pressure to do so against teams who can go out and buy finished articles for every position is enormous.
I believe in supporting our team, Manager and players. I just do not expect every player in the squad to be world class.

20 Sep 2017 10:48:46
Harry the reason for our poor form (in terms of results) is down to individual errors. From the attackers in front of goal, from the midfielders in passing the ball, the defenders and keeper making mistakes, all compounded by some poor substitutions from Klopp. Of course there are reasons to our bad form. But losing your minds and slagging everyone off does nothing.

You cannot legislate for individual errors. You just have to support the team. If you all get on their backs, the pressure will just create more errors.

If you screwed up at work and somebody broadcast it all over the world and called for you to be sacked, you wouldn't like it would you?

When did we all become fans and not supporters?

20 Sep 2017 11:02:21
I have a 9 month old son mate so forgive me for putting food on the table instead of trying to prove anything to you. I don't need to get out my manhood in some sort of manliness contest with you to prove anything.

I've never gambled more than a tenner because my priorities are in the right place, thank you very much. Although fair play to you for suggesting it goes to a charity. Credit where it's due and all that.

20 Sep 2017 11:06:25
To answer your question, my ambition is a title challenge and a trophy.

My expectations is top 4 and a decent run in the Champions league, such as last 16 or last 8.

If we don't finish top 4 and qualify from our CL group I'll send you a grovelling apology.

20 Sep 2017 11:11:16
Harry are you trying to suggest the reason we bought players for squad depth was so we could have a good crack at fa and league cup? You make some random points a lot of the time. Did you forget the champions league buddy?

20 Sep 2017 11:16:14
More to the relaity there MK. This individual errors has become a routine from some time MK and supported are getting sick of watching it weekly. It's not me alone who is frustrated! Have you stepped outside this page lately.
No one is calling for his head but he is replaponsibke dkr a large part of the issue and he should be held accountable for it.
Everyone wants the team to progress and win trophies even the most negative supporters. That's why they are supporters. We are all like the same bunch of children's on match day. Make no mistake the support is true and the support is always there for the team but repeating the same mistakes over and over again will have serious consequences mate!

We need to change something, we can't let this go on and on and on!

20 Sep 2017 11:23:15
Thats fair enough MK and Ed001 (although i find it hard to believe Ed001 hasn't got £100, maybe nothing smaller than £100😉) . Money is hard to come by, i understand.

So apart from that, what are youe expectations for the season MK. 15 game unbeaten run and all that?

{Ed001's Note - I wish mate, not all advertisers pay their dues though mate.}

20 Sep 2017 11:23:19
We aren't good enough to compete in Europe. The humping by City showed that. We can't beat top sides and struggle against Leicester, Watford and Burnley, it doesn't exactly bode well for the rest of the season does it?

20 Sep 2017 19:14:21
Dennis, the City loss proves none of what you said esp. with a red card to boot. Enough with the constant projections as they have no basis in fact and the City result proves absolutely nothing. What happens afterwards over time, does. Also, had we smashed Seville like we ought to have done, would you be saying that? NO! Even if we did beat City and Seville, it would not have proved a thing other than we won a home CL game and beat City again at the Emptyhad, as if we've never done that before.

20 Sep 2017 08:15:11
This is to both eds and who ever has the info.
How did BD defend why klopp was in charge I didn't watch them much so would be interested to know.
Thanks.

{Ed001's Note - he had Subotic and Hummels as a pair and they worked well together. It must be remembered he has not been able to sign the defender he targeted for us, whereas he got Subotic for them. Plus the Bundesliga is not the same intensity, so you are not really comparing like for like.}

20 Sep 2017 08:41:26
It's a false compariso, Longthing. He created Hummels at BD and Subotic at Mainz before he took him to BD. Klopp is building something here BUT some of the things preventing more progress on the pitch is out of his control (Cou's saga, Lallana's injury, VVD issue) cos he knows where the issues are and is trying to fix them. As long as he knows what they are and is trying to fix them, I'm okay cos at least, he's not deluded.

20 Sep 2017 09:01:08
I wonder if he spots the same gaping hole in front of our back 4?

20 Sep 2017 09:06:38
if i recall right he also had bendar infront of his centre backs not the best player but a job player who knew his job and carried it out.

{Ed001's Note - correct.}

20 Sep 2017 09:31:49
That is true, Insane. But he later tweaked it in 2011 with Sahin playing the DLP role where they won the league and Sahin was player of the year, and got his move to Real. There is no set way Klopp plays regarding the holding role as he has played with and w/ o one. Will he go back to it? Maybe as he played Can in the #6 role vs Burnley.

20 Sep 2017 07:38:43
People are asking why we bought AOC an the only reason I can think we paid such a ridiculous price for Mr average is that klopp panicked to appease people for his failure to bring in Nk an Vvd this season. Pressure is on klopp an his coaching staff now that one cup comp blown.

20 Sep 2017 07:50:14
Don't be so silly mate.
He's a good player.
One game and he's judged already eh?
This isn't FIFA on your PS 4 mate!
Good things don't happen within a couple of weeks in the real world mate or didn't you know that?!
Are you the best worker on your team on your first few days on the job, if so you're incredible mate and you should aim higher?!
He has a 5 year contract no?!
Not saying he's a world beater but your rant about the lad and Klopp is just petty.

20 Sep 2017 08:33:35
He's not a good player. He is average at best and certainly not good enough for Liverpool. Why we bought him I'll never know. he would not get in to any other top 6 team. the gooners must be devastated. or not.

And before you say "He needs time" He's 25 and not improved since he was 19.

I would rather give the likes of Woodbury, Kent, Ojo game time at least they have age on their side.

20 Sep 2017 08:44:23
Spot on, Olirish. Truth, there is NO truth to your post. Just filled with bitter ramblings and conspiracy theories which have no basis in fact. Was I an Ox fan? NO. Am I a fan now? Yes as he now plays for LFC and will have my support. Can't say the same for you, clearly. If you want him gone, buy the club, sack Klopp and get a manager in who will do that for you. Till then, keep calm and support the team as we are in a sticky patch right now.

20 Sep 2017 08:45:55
He is a very ordinary footballer and I have seen nothing in his time at Arsenal to think that he is worth £35m. And considering how weak we are through the middle (both in defence and midfield), it is a luxury signing.

20 Sep 2017 08:46:32
Mate, change the team you support then maybe.
He plays for Liverpool now whether you like it or not and will for the foreseeable future so either get over it and move on or change allegiance I would suggest or better still, quit being a whiner.
My hair fell out 15 years ago, now that's something to whine about :)

20 Sep 2017 09:02:15
Supporting the team and having an opinion are two different things Bingo. Waro supports the club in thick and thin but he has no opinion on FSG.
AOC is ridiculously average and that's my opinion on the player. He will have my support when he steps on the pitch! Cut the bull mate!

20 Sep 2017 09:11:04
the origonal post is random bs sorry but if what you said is true he would have bought 2 central defenders to appease fans, i agree with Klopp in this point you just don't buy players for the sake of it. just making up things you think are right to satisfy how you feel think is stupid and reeks of other reasons (hey look a conspiracy theory)

20 Sep 2017 11:15:22
Honestly quite a disgusting post. You genuinly believe the board wanted to pay £35 million pounds on a player just to appease the fans? Mr Average? he has played a handful of games for us and the abuse is already out of control. At times like this i wonder why i even bother supporting liverpool because what do we even stand for anymore. Best fans in the world? Total rubbish.

20 Sep 2017 07:09:42
Not to go into a big breakdown of last night's game but it's not all doom and gloom.
We played very good stuff in the first half but just didn't find the net.
The goals from Leicester if you look at them, I do have to point the fingers at the midfield again for the first.
Wijnaldum was marking Okazaki at the corner, then when the ball was cleared he pushed up and out and completely lost Okazaki when technically the attack wasn't done, just in a second phase. Obviously we lost a couple of headers and Henderson was dancing on the edge of the box ball watching until the ball broke for the Japanese player, then he seemed to wake up again but it was too late and Klavan couldn't block the shot properly.
Again, in my opinion a failure to communicate either verbally or visually with each other in midfield is the main issue there.
The second goal was right out of the top drawer (obviously we could and should have defended it a bit better (Grujic was a little weak in the tackle but was on a yellow) . Where were the other 2 midfielders though?
Both of them were over on the far side of the pitch where the throw in/ move originated from and were slow to get back in.
Grujic who was employed as probably the most attacking of the 3 and who was on a yellow was left back alone with the defence (at least he got back into that position unlike his two more experienced partners in that midfield) .
We had enough half chances to score one or maybe two in the game but it's just not falling for us right now.
That will change.
Still fancy us to win there on Saturday.
Is it okay to be optimistic? :)

{Ed025's Note - of course it is kev, all teams have sticky periods and its not as bleak as some would have us think, the lack of squad depth was a concern but liverpools first 11 are a match for any team mate..

20 Sep 2017 07:39:19
Liverpool's front 5 or 6 might be a match for anyone, maybe not the back 4 or 5 though lol.

20 Sep 2017 07:41:51
You say we played 'very good stuff' and I know that means we had good possession, had chances, dominated the game etc. But 3 goals in eighty shots over the last week! There is an eye watering stat.

20 Sep 2017 07:43:57
Not our centre defence or midfield. We were the weakest in the top four and won’t make it again at this rate.

20 Sep 2017 07:56:59
Yeah Statto, I agree, it's a frightening stat.
If maybe we took less shots from 30 to 35 yards (hit and hopes), that stat might not be so bad.
How many times did we try it on Saturday?
I lost count.
Sometimes it's all that was on though as we didn't have bodies in the box I noticed.
This is why I made a suggestion yesterday on how to possibly fix this but was shouted down lol.
And I'll just leave that one as it is before I open that can of worms again because we can't ever tweak our system haha!
Relax, I'm kidding.

20 Sep 2017 08:26:20
The long range shots are necessary though when teams such as Burnley pack all but one of their players into the box. Because, as we also found out, breaking through that many players in such a confined space is difficult.

20 Sep 2017 08:50:25
Slowdog76, I we weren't so poor in defence and giving away soft goals, we wouldn't give teams the opportunity to park the bus. There is a blueprint to beating us that all teams now follow and it is patently obvious that we lack the personnel and ability to stop it.

20 Sep 2017 08:56:02
OlIrish, your post is very good BUT disagree with the blame going to Hendo or any midfielder for the first goal. Watch it again. Grujic clears the ball with a good header then the whole team pushes up to play the offside. Everyone does BUT Gomez. He backpedals and keeps Morgan on side as Morgan wins the header. Now, with that happening, our boys are scampering back as our box is filled with umarked bodies. Okazaki even has the worst first touch for a striker on this ball and still manages to score. Why? Our boys were too late. Watch it again and you will see for yourself.

I will never blame Gomez for that as he is talented and needs to make mistakes so he will learn. Pretty sure he won't do that again. Apart from that, no issues with your post.

{Ed001's Note - to be fair, I would say that you could also blame the rest of the team for not marking, as Gomez was the only one who was actually defending. If you watch, he stays with his man, as most defenders are taught in the basics, stay goalside. The rest just run off upfield. I would say that the blame is more for those assuming the defending was done and looking to move onto the attack too soon. Sometimes you have to realise that the second phase is defending and there is no pressure on the ball, so you cannot look to play offside. When there is pressure on the ball, you can look to play it, but you never do that without it. Again basics of defending.}

20 Sep 2017 09:01:16
If a ball can fit through for a shot, why not for a pass?
It's the same size gap isn't it?
I'm not being funny, feel free to educate me on your idea behind it.
The goals don't move, but players can in attacking positions so surely it's easier to get a ball through a crowded box to a player moving into space than ballooning it ovver the bar or hitting a static defender no?

20 Sep 2017 09:20:41
Bingo, I think you need to watch that goal again if you can mate.
All you have to do is watch both Wijnaldum and Henderson, Wihjnaldum especially and tell me what exactly he did to assist the defence in a defensive moment. He just ran blindly up the left side. Take a look mate.

20 Sep 2017 09:45:18
Ed, I know that the point you make is true as indeed we did not pressure the ball there BUT if Gomez runs out with the rest of the team, every LC player is offside, right? Gomez stayed goal side and by the same token, kept the whole LC players onside. I know it is not that cut and dry as it shows. Just my take, I guess.

{Ed001's Note - they can play a through ball to one of the midfielders running onto it if everyone moves out. The point is that he was the only player doing the correct thing, yet somehow he is the one that is being singled out as to blame. He is the only one of that back four to come out of the game with any credit imo.}

20 Sep 2017 11:39:07
"First goal we don't push up together, you can say it one time or 1000 times"

This is actually a quote from Klopp from after the match last night and it has me worried that he is blaming Gomez directly.

It's simply ludicrous and an easy scapegoat if so. Shouldn't blame the young lad when his midfield of experienced internationals deserted their posts far to aggressively.

The blood attack from Leicester had only just moved to just outside the box. He's beginning to worry me because if he's playing for offside that close to goal, we will concede countless goals in the future from similar situations as we're very poor with second ball wins I have noticed.

It's poor from Klopp if blaming the kid for that publicly.
And it's poor from him to ask his defence to try to play for offside so close to their goal when it's a matter of inches in these decisions and one touch is all it takes to score from there.

{Ed001's Note - more to the point, if there is no pressure on the ball you do not play offside. That is worrying if he has not spotted that it was not the time to play offside.}

20 Sep 2017 12:16:06
lets just hope it was him frustrated without seeing a replay (which is poor professionalism if you ask me) . And let's hope Gomez doesn't see that quote as his confidence will seep away next back there.
He looks the part to me, I want him starting now at CB, looks like Dejan will be back in on Saturday.

20 Sep 2017 07:29:28
I was kidding mate with that last sentence as you probably know mate. Just checking with the doom mongers lol!

20 Sep 2017 06:19:10
Ed001 wondered what your view on our midfield is. I'm surprised how much we seem to miss Lallana last season each of the three seemed to have a clearly defined role so far this season they all seem to be doing the same and getting into each other's way.
I would like to see a dedicated DM to protect the back 4 and allow the other 2 to play their more natural game, we however have no proper DM
Hopefully we will see PC in midfield more as he gets back to fitness to give us more variety in there.

{Ed001's Note - I think the same, the players seem to be getting in each other's way and not yet gelling. However it is still early days, that kind of thing comes with time. The more they play together, the more they will grow to understand what the other players are trying to do. Personally though, I would like to see more clearly defined roles, as I am not convinced the players have the intelligence to work it out for themselves. Can holding, for instance, while the other two in there can play as a pair.}

20 Sep 2017 06:44:34
Hendo and Wij are in terrible form at the moment.

20 Sep 2017 06:58:54
But we don't play with a DM! Nor the window is opened to buy one! So we stay where we are! Loosing Can will be a crime next season!

20 Sep 2017 07:03:14
With Lallana, you know when you pass him the ball it sticks and is not coming straight back.
He has great control and retains possession well.

20 Sep 2017 08:16:33
Really not trying to be a smart ass Ed but Hendo, Can and Wini played toget her last season. How can they have completely forgotten everything from a couple of months ago.

{Ed001's Note - how often did they play as a 3 together? Hendo missed most of the second half of the season.}

20 Sep 2017 06:15:49
Cheer up guys. Got a gut feel the worst is over. We will be on upward trajectory. Ings could actually be that 25-30 goal fox in box we looking for. Also i think Coutinho would be better on bench for moment. Leave playmaking to Firmino. Get lallana to replace Hendo in midfield with Can and Wij supporting, we will be up there.

20 Sep 2017 06:20:31
Is Ings going on my list of saviours? Lol.

20 Sep 2017 06:28:03
Ings need to first prove fitness before attempting to break the goal scoring records. I have high hopes on the lad!

20 Sep 2017 08:18:18
Yeah but hope Klopp gives him the chance.

20 Sep 2017 08:18:51
Hang on, Can, Wiji and Lallana in midfield, Firmino play along with Ings up front? So there is only one place left for either Mane, Salah and Coutinho? 3 of our best players.

Nah mate. Give your head a wobble.

20 Sep 2017 10:47:07
Nah we can play them all, the defence is awful so just don't play with one. Do we even need a keeper either come to think of it :)

20 Sep 2017 05:50:44
We should have been out of sight at half time lads.

What really frustrates me was that Leicester were truly woeful.

Even more worrying is that once again we are failing to score whilst leaking at the back. Robertson put in 3 brilliant whipped in crosses and no one put those bodies on th one to get to those balls.

We looked toothless when PC went off.

20 Sep 2017 08:52:07
I didn't think we were that great in the first half to be totally honest. I mean yes we had a lot of possession, yes they created nothing, yes we were the better team - but it was a similar story of final balls, of when it really mattered, it coming to nothing. I think our cohesion in the final third has been somewhat lacking and we need to sort it out - no good having tons of possession if we keep making the wrong choices at the crucial times.

20 Sep 2017 09:09:59
Seano, for the team we put out, I think we played e=well in the first half. Cou had to come off as that may have been the plan to get him sharp and that is where LC got bolder as they could not live with him pulling the strings in midfield. All in all, not too bothered about it apart from the fact that we need to be more clinical in front of goal as the chances were there.

20 Sep 2017 02:03:20
think we've all been banned from posting. Don't blame the edds, can only imagine the doomsday drivel these pages have been bombarded with.

{Ed001's Note - we had a few server issues I think. No idea what it was causing the problems but I gave up and went to bed while it was being fixed.}

20 Sep 2017 00:06:12
Sitting with the father and brother in law watching the match and we had a discussion about the players more than the game after the match, just thought id share the comments, bash away if you want its just our opinions which we agreed with in most cases:

Danny Ward: Even although he conceded 2 goals I don't think you could blame him, he seen the first shot late and the second goal was an excellent goal placed beyond him. On one occasion when had to commanded his box better than Karius or Mignolet has been seen to do and comfortable on both feet with clearances and distribution. Deserves more chances on what little I've seen of him.

John Flannagan: Going to get some stick for this butimo he shouldn't be seen in a competitive game for the club again he's fourth choice at best at right back, I know he has good passion and heart likes a tackle but can't pass a ball, lacks pace and offered nothing forward.

Andrew Robertson: Only seen one mistake and it looked like he ducked under a header from the throw in that led to the second goal it was as if someone behind him called for him to leave it. Another good performance going forward and defends better than Moreno, DESERVES to be starting left back from this point onward imo.

Ragnar Klavan: what can I say back up to the backup enough said

Joe Gomez: made a mistake early on but recovered well and one well in the first half but Leicester where ineffective. Looked like a different player in second half don't really understand it, overall for all the people saying he should get a chance I just don't think he is ready, but what he has going for him is that the other options aresadly looking a sad bunch

Jordan Henderson: I might take some stick for this too, but I don't see what others see in Jordan, imo he's our most inneffectice midfeilder, stray passes, going to get someone injured with his hospital balls, demands touches just to give it back where it came from when the ball can be moved on quicker, players ghost past him as a team captain sorry i wouldn't even let him captain Ballymaynard

Gini Wjinaldum (sorry spelling) ; I like him but he's going through a bad period slows the game up makes good forward runs but anothre bad performance

Marko Grujic: I thought he wa having a good game in first half was good to see a Liverpool midfieler dominate in air, i know some will say its not important but i liked seeing it. IN frst half showed some good movement and touches, from the 60 minute on looked a bit lost has a bad tackle in him with his rashness but shows promise and was best of the tyhree tonight but that was not saying much

Phillipe Coutinho: Showed some of his skills in his 45 minute cameo and i understand the plan was that he would only get 45 minutes Leicester found it hard to handle him but most do

Dominic Solanke: I like his effort and willingness to work hard moves well shows some good signs needs more game time even if its in the u23 side i think he needs minutes

Alexander Oxlade Chamberlain: Im lost for words i don't know what to say it was his chance to make a mrk and flattered to deciev just don't know what to make of him

Substitutes
Ben Woodburn: few mistakes but clearly a skillfull kid whocan create and possibly turn a game, tried hard when he came on but we crowded each other in small areas making it harder for the creative types

Danny Ings: great to see the lad back deserves a change in luck looked busier than some who where on for the full game

sorry for the long post guys, keep up the good work Eds and others.

20 Sep 2017 05:03:27
Brilliant assessment! You should have added Klopp in the list as he is the one who picks the team and set up the tactics!

20 Sep 2017 05:09:06
Don't know how you can say Wijinaldum was bad when he was our best midfielder on the night - equally don't know how you can praise Grujic. I've been calling for Grujic to get games as I had hoped he could make the step up and perform - based on last night he is a long way off first team action. Slow, earratic passes, rash tackles, poor movement off the ball, he was one of our worst players yet you praise him - mad how people see different things. I was really disappointed in Grujic to be honest had hoped he would do much better and have some fire in his belly to prove himself - sadly he never seemed to really get going.

20 Sep 2017 06:49:31
I actually agree with the analysis. A bit harsh on Hendo but no doubt he had a poor game. Grujic and Gini good first half but both poor second and we lacked, and dissapppointing we lacked and major threat with Coutinho off the pitch and how our game play looked nervous and lacking in direction. but may also just have been them growing in confidence the longer we failed to score, and Liverpool starting to panic that we'd all seen this movie before, who knows?

Think Solanke will look a lot more effective with Mane and Salah around him! Would also like to see him play as second striker to Sturridge though, think they would play really well together.

20 Sep 2017 07:24:17
Grujic was the one player we all had three opinions on but i see the potential and i was writing it not the other two if you atch the Manchester teams successful chelsea etc they use a big lad to dominate in air ie matic, fellani etc, they attack the ball in the air and grujic won most if not all aerial duels, he has a good touch and shows a bit of a better footballing brain imo than the others last night. Gini, i mentioned what he done good last night but like henderson they both slowed the game down too much at times, i don't know if you realise it but our game is about speed and movement on turnovers but if you slow the game down like what happened all night last night defensive sides can set themselves which makes them hard to break down.

20 Sep 2017 08:54:59
Except Grujic didn't dominate in any way mate, he is physically big but he didn't really impose himself on that midfield - I hope he can fulfill the role you speak of but he didn't last night and, on that evidence, is some way off being given regular games to show that he is capable.

20 Sep 2017 09:17:27
The Ward love-in, needs to end. Sure, he was very good and clearly better than Migs (so is Karius) BUT he's only played one game and like Karius need way more than a Cup game here and there experience. Karius and Ward are better than Migs in almost every area BUT Klopp has screwed this up and refused to bin him, maybe he's doing it gradually, I don't know.

19 Sep 2017 22:11:11
Ed001 I'm interested to hear your thoughts on Henderson. Captain? leader? Quality? Etc. For me he hasn't had any of those for a while and might never have had. I can't keep saying the jury's out. He's had enough time to be the captain we all want.
Who would you have?

{Ed001's Note - I am not getting into this, people are on his back but seem to be forgetting how much football he has missed. You only have to look at Iborra, last season he was captain of Sevilla and his stats were good enough to make Leicester want to sign him, yet he was utterly abysmal last night on his return from injury. He was only out a few weeks! Henderson, like Coutinho, needs time on the pitch to play his way back to form. As for captaining, who the hell else is there? Who is there out there to buy that is a leader? I have watched hundreds of hours of football over the last season or two and can count on the fingers of one hand the number of genuine leaders I saw on the pitch.}

19 Sep 2017 22:01:13
Well it's about time klopp snapped infront of the camera about the defence! Ed01 is they're any player in the team u think we could try and convert to a cb? We need sumthn fast school boy errors all the time!

{Ed001's Note - no it is not. That would help nobody snapping. Glad you aren't my manager! A manager should never publicly criticise his staff, in any line of work. You take them aside and do it privately or you are a crap manager.

As for CBs, Gomez has played one game there and everyone is already criticising, this is why we ended up back with Mignolet. The fans do not deserve success the way they act.}

20 Sep 2017 08:56:58
I thought Gomez played well last night apart from the lapse that they managed to score from - he has good pace and strength and I reckon, with a consistent run of games, he'd really show his worth. Given how the other defenders have performed he surely deserves games to make the spot his own? Or will he be hounded out to the benches like Karius leaving us with the underwhelming Matip and Lovren?

{Ed001's Note - I don't agree he was the one who lapsed. He stayed with his man, continued to defend as the ball was not cleared properly and there was no pressure on the ball. That is what a defender should do.}