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18 Oct 2017 05:08:02
A few thoughts from the game

- Again a good balance to the side with a disciplined deep midfielder to screen the defence and another clean sheet with almost zero chances given away (not playing the best team but you can only play who's in front of you)
- I expected Klopp to rotate more but hats off for broadly sticking with his first team to build on the Man Utd performance. I expect the confidence boost of the 7 goals will be more important than had he saved legs for against Tottenham
- Salah excellent yet again, but so were rest of the front three, and Milner looked lively (might be a threat to Gini? )
- Can had a good game from deep, I think that's his best position to be honest
- Good play for the back 4 and nice for TAA to get minutes
- Solanke looks better than Sturridge
- nice for Ox to get on the scoresheet

Overall a great day and another step up the ladder of looking solid at the back while dangerous going forward. Let's hope we can beat Tottenham then I think we're in very good shape having played most of our top 6 rivals already.

SGRed

1.) 18 Oct 2017 07:30:33
Milner is a threat to Henderon and did more than what Hendo did all season! Can was the key. He starts the attack from the deep. Only player capable of putting a tackle when needed. He is so powerfully built that he skip pass players when charging forward. His only downfall is his discipline and awareness ( when to charge and when not to ) He will excell alongside a proper holding midfielder maybhe at Juventus.
Coutinho was simply excellent. His vision to pick Moreno, Salah, Milner, or any outfield player is what place him inside the elite!


2.) 18 Oct 2017 10:05:52
you're right about Milner sgred. he was fantastic, really really good, looked like the milner of old. Glad he plays for us. Another bonus from the rebirth of Alberto Moreno, another fantastic match for the lad, I think I said it before but he is becoming one of the top left backs in the premier league.


 

 

04 Oct 2017 18:33:49
Quick 2 questions for the Eds.

1) not trying to blame the defence for all ills but how much of our problems going forward may be related to trying too hard knowing we're always at risk of conceding? I've certainly played in a few teams before where a solid defence makes the whole team so confident because they know one chance is enough. likewise constantly thinking that any lost possession or missed opportunity could mean the game is lost seems to panic our attack? The confidence just seems to be seeing out of the forwards as the pressure increases.

To be fair I'll also ask a second question in the defence's defence.

2) How much of the current problems in defence are organizational and come from not defending as a team? Looking back at Burnley the lack of awareness tracking arfield was criminal, while against Newcastle it was clear Hendo went into a press that failed miserably because Shelvey was unmarked next to their player. Gini then failed to either press Shelvey or drop to follow Joselu, leaving plenty of time for Shelvey to hit the pass. Yes the CBs make fairly repetitive errors but the number of times the opposition has played through a half hearted or uncoordinated press from our midfield is scary. We never seem to have any real cover sitting deep, but then we don't seem to be cutting out the dangerous passes too well either?

Thanks.

SGRed

{Ed001's Note - they are impossible to quantify but they are all factors. Just like having a dodgy keeper behind the defence makes the defence jittery, it also will have an effect on the rest of the team. While I agree the press was not done well, the defenders should be reacting to that and dropping off when there is no pressure on the ball. If they do that, suddenly we don't concede from those straight balls. They also need to get closer together the moment we lose possession, they are too widely spaced.}


1.) 04 Oct 2017 19:36:31
Spot on, Ed and SG. The press in midfield, is not being done well right now even tho it was better vs LC. Also, players like Wiji are not doing it right now in midfield as he should have recognized the fact that Hendo Pressed hence should have dropped into the space in behind to cover for him.

The defence is there to bail the players in front of them out, just like the GK is there to bail the team out. None of that is being done right now hence, our defence is often a calamity. On the Shelvey pass for the goal, any CB partnership knows to either step up and play the offside or drop deep and deal with the through ball. Our CB's were incapable of doing either of these simple things. As a result, I feel for Klopp at times cos what else can he do? It just seems like our defenders cannot even execute the most basic of defensive duties at times.


 

 

24 Sep 2017 07:32:47
A few thoughts from the game

- scrappy most of the time but the battling from the boys in red was superb, we were happy to get stuck in at last and do the hard stuff, particularly Hendo who was outstanding
- just goes to show you don't need to play pretty football to win a match, Coutinho was excellent in the first half, as was Salah, taking your chances is everything
- also lovely Cameo from sturridge, nice to see an early sub and plenty of time to influence the game which he did
- on the negatives Lovren started really poorly but at least started to improve towards the end but remains a constant worry
- Migs did some really good things but again a few brain farts and we nearly lost the match, still needs to be replaced IMO
- Gomez struggled too but patience is in order as he's young and did some good stuff too
- midfield looked better with Can deep but Gini was anonymous in first half, we miss Lallana

Overall really happy with the three points and something to build on - being able to battle it out in a tough away game, and rebuilding confidence at the back is everything. A win was crucial but still no mean feat away at Leicester.

Well done last lads!

SGRed

1.) 24 Sep 2017 07:44:37
Someone needs to hypnotize Wijnaldum to think every game is played at Anfield. He was crap yesterday! I would play AOC / Grujic instead of Wijnaldum in away games!


2.) 24 Sep 2017 07:54:19
Oh my days have you heard yourself?


3.) 24 Sep 2017 08:35:36
Agree with your post globally, SG and I thought Gomez was solid at RB as he is not one. As for Wiji, he was not absent for the first half. He was absent for the whole game. Btw, this is coming from a huge Wiji fan.


 

 

20 Sep 2017 08:18:15
Hi eds wondering when it's time to start talking the system being the problem. One notable issue seems to be that we are employing three similar box to box style players in midfield and trying for a co-ordinated high press in defense, but unfortunately we are looking anything but co-ordinated in defence and a bit toothless in attack.

Should we be considering mixing it up a bit more and playing a clear deep defensive midfielder (Can), a box to box (Gini or Hendo) and an attacking no.10 (Coutinho or Lallana)? Or perhaps go with a two man midfield sitting deep and more of a 4-2-3-1. I'd really like to see us giving up on the high press if we don't win it back immediately on losing possession and going with more of a 4-1-4-1 shape like we used to defend? I can't help but think limiting the space between our midfield and back 4 could only do us good vs. what we have now, which is looking a bit like disorganised chaos, and with Coutinho, Mane, Salah, Firmino in the side I'm pretty sure we will still score plenty of goals. in fact you might argue we will do better for dropping deeper in defence leaving them more space to run into when we win it back?

The current run reminds me a bit of January last season, and it's noteworthy when we went through a similar dry patch upfront, we changed to a more defensive setup, ground out results through conceding far less, and it seemed to help rebuild the confidence of the whole team again to put together a good run towards the end of the season.

I for one wouldn't mind us being more pragmatic, specifically away from home, and hopefully grinding out a few more 1-0's until we can settle into something that looks a bit more like a team before stepping it up a gear again.

Interesting in your perspectives, eds and reds.

SGRed

{Ed001's Note - Klopp wants a deeper mid with Coutinho or Lallana in front, but we have been unable to play that due to Lallana's injury and Coutinho's sulking. We have got stuck with a midfield not of his choosing. Or rather, not his first choice.}


1.) 20 Sep 2017 08:38:31
Thanks for the info, Ed. Great to know.


2.) 20 Sep 2017 08:40:11
Who is the DM that Jurgen wants to play with? Lallana and Coutinho in advance so who is the DM? Hendo? Wijnaldum? Can? They don't have the discipline or the positional awareness I'm afraid.

We need a player like Mascherano or Didi and there does not seem to be anyone in the squad or Keita like that.
Those goals last night would not have happened with Mascherano sitting in front of the defenders. He would moo up the second ball from the corner and mop up the ball before Slimami turns with the ball. He would not be in front of the ball, he would always be between the ball and the defenders.

{Ed001's Note - Mascherano had no positional awareness or discipline. Mash never once sat in front of defenders, that was the problem with him. He was rash and would go walkabout in games but people loved him because he sprinted back, when it was his own fault for being so badly positioned that he had to throw himself into rash needless tackles.}


3.) 20 Sep 2017 08:59:46
Ok, that's fair enough, but Didi had those qualities and Masch would, more often than not, get back and make the challenge.

{Ed001's Note - Hamann I agree on, and Alonso. I do agree we are missing one of those, but there are not exactly a lot of them about. The only reason Stewart was kept on was because we couldn't find one to recruit so Klopp had a look to see if he could make standard. Unfortunately we also lost Lucas, which was not Klopp's choice but he understood Lucas's long service and that the lad deserved to make the choice for himself.}


4.) 20 Sep 2017 09:00:25
i think asking keita to sit as a DM would be a waste of his talents. just my opinion on the Keita portion Ron.


5.) 20 Sep 2017 09:18:28
Why did we offload Lucas if you were never going to bring an upgrade over him? What a dumb move that is proving now to be! I can't believe I am saying this!

You play any kind of system, you need good midfielders especially in that deeper role one that protect a piss poor defense who intends to play high line! It's no rocket science!

{Ed001's Note - because Lucas had a great offer of regular football and a fresh start. It is call gratitude giving someone like Lucas, who has served the club with all his heart despite being the target of boo boys, the choice.}


6.) 20 Sep 2017 09:29:43
Keita should be the one to play ahead of the holding player, IMO. As that will make great use of his talents.


7.) 20 Sep 2017 09:31:17
And he is doing brilliant for Lazio. We should have upgraded that position in the summer!

{Ed001's Note - with who? If there had been someone we would have gone and bought them, or at least tried. This is the problem, there just aren't a huge pool of ready players available for the positions we are short in.}


8.) 20 Sep 2017 09:43:02
Great post SGred.


9.) 20 Sep 2017 10:33:32
Cheers MK - think people get a little carried away by individual results sometimes, we have good players but we seem to expose ourselves too often I feel.

We don't need to create 80 chances over 3 games to be effective, it's stopping the two goals a game that's key to rebuilding confidence and that has a lot to do with how open we leave ourselves sometimes.


10.) 20 Sep 2017 10:33:53
Ed 001 Matic Ndidi Bayako.

{Ed001's Note - Matic wanted to go to United, Bakayoko wanted Chelsea and Ndidi was not for sale. Oh and Bakayoko and Ndidi are not holding midfielders either. Both are very similar to what we have, in terms of the way they play defence. They both want to get up and down the pitch, not sit and protect.}


11.) 21 Sep 2017 10:53:13
What exactly is Coutinho sulking about? Doesn't Coutinho like playing in the front of a midfield three?


 

 

18 Sep 2017 23:36:50
My 2c on striker and GK

Not a massive fan of rotating GKs but it's clear in my mind Klopp is easing Karius into no.1 and keeping Ward for when Migs eventually departs. I'm guessing he's being careful given the history on Karius but hopefully sorted by Jan, otherwise latest next summer.

On strikers, Firmino has been outstanding. Yes he's a different option to Lukaku, but with Mane and Salah able to play in behind, he's been the fulcrum to our play and making chances for those around him left, right and centre. He also hasn't missed too many chances himself, the real issue has actually been how many Salah has missed, or Gini, Can, Coutinho etc. but then also look at how many Salah has scored or made before criticising. he's sensational. Frankly we don't need to change things there. What we do need though is someone in the last 30mins to unlock a packed defence with a presence in the box. the answer is obvious and it's Solanke, we just need Klopp to get the substation on earlier and drop Firmino deeper into a no.10 position earlier IMO. My actual worry is Sturridge though, he plays a similar game to firmino dropping deeper all the time to get on the ball, but while he's slightly more clinical, he's less effective on the ball or pressing defensively. Not sure what the long term plan is with Sturridge but hopefully he hits form soon.

SGRed

1.) 19 Sep 2017 00:20:30
Sturridge has not been given enough time but when he has he has not been all that impressive. I hope this is just getting the rust off but if not then I fear his time is over. I agree all you said. Bobby to me critical to this offense and like another point out the net gain of goals is zero even if u bring in a top striker because a top striker will likely not create what Bobby does.


2.) 19 Sep 2017 00:48:10
Good critical post SGRED. I'd have to agree with everything you've said mate. I think you're right about the gk situation. With sturridge, he was here long before klopp and was the poster boy when the German arrived, I think he has been fair with Danny but unfortunately, Danny doesn't always have the work rate that klopp demands. Dannys attitude has impressed me, when it could've been easy to hand in a transfer request and move on the guy chose to stay and fight for his place against the odds. He is a useful player to have in the squad as he offers the option of 442. Wouldn't be surprised if we switched to that formation in the latter stages of cup games or ucl, the way we did at the end of last season when we simply had to win. It is a more cautious formation. I dunno, it's an idea. He is a great impact sub too, I don't buy this "he has lost it" his sort of skill is something you're born with.

{Ed001's Note - the same Danny that chased back 50 yards to win the ball back against Burnley when the midfield had once again gone missing does not have the work rate? It is nothing to do with work rate that Klopp doesn't use him, it is the injuries and the fact that Firmino plays so well there.}


3.) 19 Sep 2017 06:15:40
We had another poor transfer window and we are getting exactly what we deserve.

Defence is still a mess and the majority of goals scored against us are from defensive errors rather than attacking excellence.

Until we sort the defence out we aren't going to challenge.


4.) 19 Sep 2017 06:20:25
I feel though Firmino create chance we need a clinical finisher. So far best finisher we have is Mane. But Mane is play on wings as half striker half midfielder. Been watching Jean-Eric Maxim Choupo-Moting, not saying he is extremely good but I feel he is right mould of physical finisher we need. Next is Gabiadini.

{Ed001's Note - seriously? You have not watched either much then have you! Choupo-Moting could barely score in the Bundesliga and Gabbiadini could barely even get a game in Serie A. Both are not good enough to replace Sturridge on the bench, let alone to improve our first team.}


5.) 19 Sep 2017 06:48:57
Lavers, it's not just the defence though.
They can't be blamed for the gaping holes in front of them in midfield can they?!
No protection there at times, so they're overwhelmed at points in matches.
The midfield needs work too.
There's 3 of them there in the middle of midfield, where do they go to leave such holes?!
It's like there's no communication there.
"You go, I'll sit".
"I'll go forward, you stay back"?
It's like they speak different languages or don't communicate, last time I checked Henderson, Wijnaldum and Can all can speak English :)

{Ed001's Note - so why on earth do you want to open up more gaps by playing a striker up top, instead of Firmino, meaning someone will have to drop out from midfield and you lose Firmino's pressing from the front!}


6.) 19 Sep 2017 07:01:03
Never mentioned Firmino or the forwards here.
That was in a completely separate thread from yesterday that was put to bed yesterday?!


7.) 19 Sep 2017 07:11:38
Drop one of the midfielder preferably Henderson and play a natural holding player. Numbers looks the same but the midfiled and defense become more stable. So there is absolutely no chance of any error in communicaton!
Ed01, you got to prioritize the article on midfileders mate.

{Ed001's Note - so we need two players just to sort out an attack that is already doing well?}


8.) 19 Sep 2017 07:15:13
I'll answer your question though of course, apologies for the staggered response but I'm at work.
I'm suggesting that an out and out Striker is more useful in games such as Saturday's.
Not against the bigger, better teams.
There are more goalmouth scrambles against Burnleys than against Uniteds of this league so a poacher would be there to gobble up a goal or two in those games.
Top goalscorers tend to score multiple braces or hattricks against the lesser teams.
Firminio is highly unlikely to do that, not saying he's a worse or better player than Javier Fernandez/ Lewandowski/ Ian Rush for example, but they are more likely to take the chances presented to them in these games to finish teams off with deep lying midfields or defences or both.
They won't stop Burnley as an example scoring, heck they might even score two against us if we play a poacher but we might win 3-2 with a goal or two coming from the goalmouth scramble panic that happens in these games more often than not. Think Solanke hitting the bar from 3 or 4 yards out. Would a top poacher have missed that? Rush for example? Not knocking Solanke, he's just turned 20 and is learning his trade. He could be amazing. I'm talking proven poachers.
I can't believe I've gone back to this discussion again lol.
I'll be sacked at this rate.

{Ed001's Note - would a top poacher be happy to only play against the Burnleys for one. No, he wouldn't, so we are going to be left with an average (at best) one, who would not be an improvement. So why would you bother? Secondly, the issue was not that we couldn't score, we did score, the issue was the chances we gave away were such poor defending. Keep a clean sheet and that game is a win, as they would never have had anything to hold onto once we scored our first and they have to come out a little. We do not need to mess with the attack. It works. The defence is our problem.}


9.) 19 Sep 2017 07:35:55
Look I agree we should keep a clean sheet against Burnleys of this league but we both know this is not happening with this defence and midfield so we need to use our stength - attack.
We should be able to outscore them.
To only score one goal against Burnley is embarrassing.
We should aim to blow these teams away, no disrespect to Burnley but that's the truth and we shouldn't aim lower.
We could have gotten Hernandez in the summer for example, he'd have been able to start about 12 or 13 home league matches alone and about 10 away matches that we'd be expected to win and would be chasing goals as usual.
He'd also be able to come off the bench in others if say we're a goal behind at the Emirates with 20 or 30 minutes to go.
He'd have gotten plenty of minutes.
Solanke could come on to replace him (a poacher) if starting or come on with him if we need something different in a game like the one I mentioned (losing at the Emirates with half an hour left) so his development is halted.
That's all he's getting currently anyway.
There's no end to this debate and no proven winner as Klopp didn't buy a poacher and is unlikely to until the summer.
But just to finish, we should be hammering Burnley, we might have done with a proven goalscorer upfront. We didn't, we scraped a draw in the end, so what's the harm in trying something new next time?
Look at the reverse fixture last season, we absolutely dominated them like I have never seen a game dominated before and lost 1-0.
You literally couldn't make it up.
So this is not new territory for us, we regularly struggle to put games to bed. You surely can admit that. So why not try to end it like we did with Hoffenheim at home? Nice and early, put to bed and nobody even cares that they scored twice.

{Ed025's Note - thats the problem kev, what gives liverpool the right to be hammering burnley?, are you that aloof that you think burnley should not really be able to grace the same field as the mighty liverpool? maybe its not just the supporters but the players as well and thats why your record against the lesser lights is so poor, it makes you sound very shallow and shows massive disrespect to other teams and that might explain why your popularity among other supporters is so low mate..


10.) 19 Sep 2017 08:21:29
Burnley this season have already beaten Chelsea away, drawn with Spurs away, and now drawn with us away. So should we be blowing them away?

I'm not getting back into the striker debate with you, but Ed025 has a very good point. It is arrogance of the highest order to believe we have a divine right to smash teams like Burnley. We should be beating them on paper, but the Premier League is tough and there are very rarely any easy games. You can play so well that it looks easy, but nobody in this league rolls over week in week out like in Spain or France. That is why all the best managers want to be here. To challenge themselves. I'm convinced it is also why some of the best players in the world don't want to be here. Messi and Neymar are self indulged brats who wouldn't be able to cope with having to put in a bit of hard work every single week. They enjoy strolling to victory for a very large pay check. Even players who could cope like Suarez, Bale, Ronaldo etc still whinged and whined to go to Spain where 32 games a season were absolute bankers, and they only had to put in maximum effort in about league 3-6 games a season.

The Prem is unforgiving though mate. We'll lose or draw again at some point and you will have to come to terms with that. The finances are much more evenly split in England so we are getting to the stage where there won't be any average teams and it'll get even harder. I can see someone winning the league with less than 80 points in the near future.


11.) 19 Sep 2017 08:42:24
I agree on the GK situation it seems to be how Klopp does it. He eases people in instead of throwing them in at the deep end. He tried that with Karius initially and look how that worked out. Trent has a blinder against The Hoff then is rested. Woodburn is consistently on the bench but rarely gets on causing people to question Klopp. Then he plays for Wales and everyone's sees why. You have to ease these kids in or you could ruin them. Klopp knows the players better than we do so I'll leave that to him.


12.) 19 Sep 2017 08:45:46
You talk all day about the need of a leader and character in the dressing room and on the pitch and then you also want us to be very nice and polite to the likes of Burnley's and Watford and drop 2 points at home and wave the hands across!

If yo are so happy with 1 point against Burnley and Watford why there is a discussion on this?

By that logic we have no divine right to beat Leicester today or on Saturday. Let's all be happy now!


13.) 19 Sep 2017 08:48:16
Leave everything to Klopp! Why do we even have a discussion!


14.) 19 Sep 2017 08:53:03
There's no easy games in the prem, That's what makes it exciting,
Any team not on top of their game can be beaten by by any other team,

Defensive errors will get punished in this league,

So the more mistakes a team make
The more goals they will concede.

Its Stating the obvious I know but I would try to sign 2 centre halves and a RB as well,


15.) 19 Sep 2017 09:12:33
My posts are not being put up because I pointed out some valid points on a recent reply to a comment of mine, so I'm bowing out of this. Good luck tonight lads, but what's the point in playing if we feel like we have no right to win? We can't draw because the cup doesn't allow it so why not ring Leicester and tell them we'll no show so that they can win - makes sense based on the argument put to me above. Unbelievable!

{Ed001's Note - don't talk soft and grow up. Ed025 is not about to answer your posts aimed at him. You have not posted a single valid point yet on this thread, just your obsession with fixing the only bit of our team that is working because you expected a win against Burnley. It seems to have escaped your attention that we did score and that our loss was down to not stopping them scoring, not because we were unable to score. I would be glad if you did stop banging on though, as it is a nonsense argument that smacks of spoilt children throwing their toys out of the pram after not getting their way. Boohoo we didn't win every game so four games in we want to change everything. It is ridiculous and I have no interest in this discussion at all. Please do not bother to reply to me, I do not want to waste any more time with this.}


16.) 19 Sep 2017 09:14:11
Personally think we would have lost both matches last year. Slight improvements in our attack going forward so I'd rather we didn't sacrifice that part of our play. It's a long time to the window though so I'd imagine klopp will try a few things (which will keep us scratching our heads) to shore up the defence. It's our job to be patient where possible. As for sturridge, I'd love if he stayed up top a little more and made runs through the defence instead of coming deep so often and allowing teams to get behind the ball. Perhaps his lack of laziness and attempting to be part of the play is where he's struggling. I also think firmino is fantastic but I'd love to see him deeper causing chaos with his vision and movement. He's doing a great job leading the line as it is but perhaps if there was a striker with better movement ahead- we could get the best out of him.


17.) 19 Sep 2017 09:41:58
I actually pointed out all that you mentioned in the posts that were not put up, but that's fine. Sure sure! I'll bow out as I don't see the point continuing. Was quite happy to debate with anyone but pointless when it goes to name calling and pigeon holing me as you have also done.
That's your prerogative to go low but it's not for me.

{Ed001's Note - oh whatever. There was no debate. It was a knee jerk reaction with no basis in reality from you and a few others that seem to live in a fantasy world where Liverpool have to rip up everything when they don't win a game. I really do not care if you like the truth or not, if you want to call it name calling and pigeon holing, fine, but that is just because you do not like the honest truth. You are making a knee jerk reaction and it is ridiculous. You talk about having pointed out things, but all you have done is regurgitate the same things in each and every post. It was nonsense when you started and it is just tired nonsense now.}


18.) 19 Sep 2017 09:49:46
Harry what the hell does having no leadership have to do with the fans learning to suck up a defeat and move on?

You do worry me at times buddy 😂

You are again missing the point though. Nobody is saying we shouldn't want to, and even target winning every single game. Every team should do that.

The point is, that you shouldn't start whinging and crying over a handful of games, start demanding a new manager, or to replace the striker for having an apparently off day, whilst he was on the left wing. You also shouldn't assume "we should be smashing Burnley". They are a Prem team who have already taken 3 major scalps this season. They will undoubtedly claim a few more before the season is out, and people just need to accept that Sturridge (6)and Coutinho (7) wasted a lot of chances that could've made it a demolition, and that we will go again. Our failure to score more had nothing to do with Firmino, or the system we played.

The season is so young that Newcastle and Huddersfield are European qualification places and Everton are in the relegation zone. There is no need to panic.


19.) 19 Sep 2017 10:03:06
Personally I think every time we concede a soft goal we sacrifice part of our attack. Basically it means our attack then needs to score more goals to achieve our targets. Take the Watford game? You don't think our attack would have appreciated us defending better at the death? You don't think our attackers would appreciate not having to score 3 away goals to get a point?

Secondly, take Man Utd. Do they look more threatening from midfield this season? Are they creating more chances?
Answer - YES.
Reason - They signed Matic and employed him as a holding midfielder. This allows Pogba or Mata or their wing backs to get forward without always worrying about the solidity at the back.

Thirdly - why should we be smashing Burnley? Because we have more resources? By that reasoning we'd be happy to be smashed by Chelsea or Man Utd then because they have more resources?
We should be aiming to win every game, but the reality is you have to earn the right to win a game, there are no forgone conclusions.


20.) 19 Sep 2017 10:47:36
It may be nonsense, it may be the truth. I am entitled to my opinion though.
I didn't regurgitate anything that was taken on board, most of what I said was misunderstood/ misread or selectively understood/ read. I am happy to debate with anyone including LFC or non LFC fans but I draw the line at when I'm pigeon holed as a certain type of personality or fan. Nobody knows each other here so it's just arrogant to do so. There are some people here who there is no talking to. Set in their ways, that's fine, nothing wrong with that in my eyes, but no need to get personal is there?! It's pathetic, name calling wins no debates. I'm not saying who, people can judge for themselves and see for themselves. No basis in reality? Mate, we have played 4 games this season in the league where the game didn't exactly go to plan did it? I won't name them as you know already what games. I could say you haven't given a reasonable argument based on reality either. Did we beat Watford? Did we beat Burnley? Did we even come close against City? Sure we beat Arsenal and that was a fantastic result and performance, but that was serviced by our style suiting that game and that's my argument. Horses for courses but most of you don't want to see that. You want to see, "oh let's change our whole tactic in a knee jerk reaction to a draw with Burnley. " That is not the case. Horses for courses. It's fine, persevere with the deep lying forward against the lower teams, we'll probably win most. But when a team is set up well to defend we'll not win as easy or at all. My simple argument is that we'll give ourselves a better chance to win these games if we try to keep a man in or around their box. That's not exactly guaranteeing goals obviously but statistically speaking, gives us a better chance to score more against what are considered (on paper/ by fans/ pundits/ experts) to be a lesser team, giving us a better chance to win. We can't keep clean sheets, so we may as well play to our strengths. Anyway, I'm done. I was done with this last night but was asked again above my reasons for a slight tweak of the system in certain games. I don't hold grudges and understanding someone's tone from posts/ texts is impossible and can be misunderstood easily, but what can't be misunderstood is the childish pigeon holing without warrant. If you think that's soft, that's your pointo of view, doesn't make it right. Usually someone who has no argument resorts to that type of behaviour, it's a simple psychological behaviour that is well known. I'll leave it at that.
Good luck.


21.) 19 Sep 2017 10:49:05
Irish kev. your posts are embarrassing mate, we have no divine right to beat the Burnley's of the league I hate that talk. If that was the case the game shouldn't go ahead they should just forfeit it? Saves everyone's time and money then? What about fa cup upsets that have happened? Should they not have happened because the so called bigger team has a divine right to win? It's what makes football so special. and especially the premier league! We all take the piss out of the SPL as it was a 2 horse race before the demise of Rangers. Would you rather a league like that? No, nor me!
Your arguments have no substance and you need to grow up a bit.


22.) 19 sep 2017 11:06:23
mate, nobody said we have a divine right to win against anybody.
do you read posts or just skim them? skim i bet.
i have said time and time again that we'd give ourselves a better chance of winning if we played with a striker on certain occasions. where in that do you see "we have a divine right to beat everybody? "
why are you posting with no debate or argument of your own, only slagging off my opinion blindly?
very constructive you were there if you're a kid mate yeah.
thanks and good bye.


23.) 19 Sep 2017 11:28:47
Kev, direct quote:

"We should be able to outscore them.
To only score one goal against Burnley is embarrassing. "

Your use of the term 'embarrassing' makes you come across as a little bit entitled mate. I'm not trying to get at you. But that does suggest you believe hat Burnley have no right to challenge us. Ron hits that point perfectly; if we should be blowing away Burnley based on stature/ resources, you cannot really moan that City blew us away as by the same logic, it would've been embarrassing for City to lose or draw to a team with about 10% of their budget. You also can't expect us to finish in the top 4 because on paper, we are about 6th or 7th based on resources.

Your choice of words was perhaps just poor. I am prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt as you don't generally come across as an arrogant poster. But your comments and lingering anger over the result does infer that you believe we have some kind of right to beat these teams massively. Like you say though, text can easily be misinterpreted.


24.) 19 Sep 2017 11:57:40
Olirish, I propose you just let this whole hing go as we are not getting anywhere here.


25.) 19 Sep 2017 11:47:19
Ed regarding sturridge, you are right of course about firmino being too good to drop hence ds not getting many games but I remember reading an article in the summer where klopp said he didn't want to turn sturridge into a winger who runs so many yards per match. So that only leaves one spot where, like you say Bobby is getting the nod. I was impressed with dannys tracking back however against Burnley. Do you think we will switch to 442 at all this year?

{Ed001's Note - it will depend on injury and form mate. I am sure we will have to at some point though, to get people into the side. It wasn't far off it against Burnley as Couts was playing on the left more often than not with Firmino playing off Studger for large periods.}


26.) 19 Sep 2017 12:34:00
It's your opinion mate, I respect it as always but like I said before, that is simply not the case.
Are you saying you didn't expect to beat that team on Saturday then?
We should be able to outscore Burnley, oh dear lord this is becoming a very silly discussion now.
If you don't think we should beat a team considered to be of a lesser quality than us by the general public, then what did you watch the match for?
To see us lose or draw?
I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt, thank you for that.
Do you think we should win tonight or on Saturday?
Do you think we should win a PL match ever again in the future?
Not will we win, do you think we should win one in the future?
That's now what the discussion has come down to.
My wording of how I think if we play to our capabilities, we should beat Burnley with the squad we have.
How many Burnley players would make our first 11?
Not many, that is why I feel we should beat them more often than not.
If Saturday's result was a once in a month thing, it'd be fine by me. but it's almost on a weekly basis.
Look at our form from Jan to March/ April - did I moan then? Nope! Am I moaning now? Nope! I'm saying Burnley should have been put to the sword on Saturday but we lacked some ambition, not all ambition but some.
We are never going to agree on the Striker thing and that's fine by me but when I am pigeon holed with "Liverpool fans who are disliked by most other clubs", that's when I front up and will stand up for myself. Only some of my posts got through even though I never got personal with anyone in retaliation. I made valid points in my defence. It's ridiculous, but I won't hold a grudge as I know how it is here.
I'll go along with it but don't go personal and assume you know my motives when you couldn't possibly do. Not you personally MK, but in a general way to nobody specific.
I am happy to put this to bed again but the Welsh guy wants to argue for the sake of arguing now too.
Jump on the bandwagon.
If you disagree with an editor on here in a passionate debate, your post might not go up. This is what happened to me earlier, so what's the point?! There was no swearing or personal attacks, just a valid defence of myself but it wasn't allowed. If you don't agree with everything said by big brother, you're written off and slagged off as I was above. So I'm done with this convo now MK. Sorry!


27.) 19 Sep 2017 12:53:37
To just elaborate on my quote "To only score one goal against Burnley is embarrassing. " What I didn't add to that (and that is my own fault) is that it should be embarrassing for the players who have taken 35 shots and only scored once against a team who are expected to finish mid table to lower table - their own fans would probably snap your hand off if you offered them mid table status now. I have no real complaints about Sevilla. We were poor in the second half, I don't begrudge them their equaliser but I'd have hope/ expected us to win prior to that game too as we are a superior set of players in my eyes. I'm quite possibly wrong on that and maybe we're showing our true level, I don't know. You have hopes and aspirations for your team but expectancy is never too high in my head, I don't ever expect us to win a trophy at the start of a season but I hope we do. I do however expect us to win a single match against Burnley at home, maybe away from home I'd be okay with a hard fought draw but I don't think it's arrogance at all to expect your team who have aspirations to get a top 4 place to beat Burnley at home and I'm pretty sure an extremely high percentage of level headed fans (not just Liverpool fans) would think the same.
I am 100% done now. Apologies about the ridiculously long and apparently regurgitated posts, clearly I'm the only one who does that lol.
I didn't even want this debate. I thought it was bloody over yesterday, wow lol!
MK Scouser, you're a gent and I have no problem debating with you as I can see you're pretty level headed but just as stubborn as myself haha, which is all good with me.
Sayōnara.

{Ed001's Note - see that is the problem with text, one simple section can set a tone in someone's mind and make you sound completely different to what you intended. That one sentence did make you come across as extremely arrogant and entitled. Now it all sounds totally different and the whole conversation takes a different route.}


28.) 19 Sep 2017 12:58:49
Cheers for the reply ed01. I love the interchange in our team, when it works it is fantastic and must be very very hard to defend against as the opposition don't know for sure where the runs are coming from. It's frustrating when the midfield don't get it right though but I think we will come good in the end.

{Ed001's Note - if we could get a better balance in midfield it would make a huge difference. That is becoming a major problem to rank alongside the centre of defence and goalie. Hopefully putting Couts in there improves things as the other two will have to be more selective in their forward runs.}


29.) 19 Sep 2017 13:04:11
For those questioning the attack and calling for new faces in the attacking line up. The front three alone have scored 12 goals in seven games. That is all you need to know. We are scoring, it isn't a problem. Mo salah is actually on course to score near thirty goals this season. I doubt he will reach 30 but his goal to game ratio atm suggests he will. That tells me he is on form. End of argument.


30.) 19 Sep 2017 13:38:39
That's fair enough Ed001. But maybe if you're now aware of this, you can lighten up on me a bit like MK said, give me the benefit of the doubt.
Certainly not trying to bust anybody's you know what's.
I do write these novels with best intentions but as I said earlier, I'm at "work" so sometimes they're a little rushed and I can't put everything into it. I'm conscious of how long they are too so try to minimise as much as possible and hope that anyone reading takes them the way they're intended. I was an arrogant kid but I'm nearly 40, those days are long gone! Stubborn? Sure. Arrogant - I couldn't be now even if I wanted to be.
Good day one and all!
Glad we cleared up that mess a little.

{Ed001's Note - sorry I meant to apologise in my initial reply mate, I should have asked you to clarify it as I know it happens to me a lot when I am rushing through answering posts and miss bits out trying to rush. So I am sorry I was hard on you, I should have made sure as it is unlike you.}


31.) 19 Sep 2017 14:39:57
No worries brother.
No need for apologies at all.
Catch ya later.


32.) 19 Sep 2017 08:22:02
Just to clarify my previous post (I typo'd) . Solanke's progress would *not be halted as he only gets a few minutes here and there anyway.
I'm a pretty level headed fan actually, I'll give props to other clubs when due but Burnley are a lower half team realistically.
If you're telling me you don't expect to see a win for Liverpool when these two teams play currently (not necessarily forever, as things change) then you're either pulling my leg or on a wind up.
Liverpool's squad on paper is far superior to Burnley's. We're favourites to beat the Burnleys of the league every single time we play them and there's a reason for that.
All due respect mate, you don't know me or my personality so please don't pigeon - hole me generally or you're acting aloof towards me aren't you?! It's not very nice to suggest that about anybody. I'm an individual Liverpool FC supporter who thinks for myself not as a collective and I'm never disrespectful to any other club/ team, but I am optimistic and why shouldn't I be can you tell me?
Why shouldn't I expect my team to beat lower to mid table teams? We finished 4th last season and supposedly have improved over the summer. If you're telling me to not be optimistic and to hope/ expect to beat teams down the league from a season that finished 6 league matches ago, then I don't know what to tell you. It's a small team mentality and how do you expect to win any games without belief and optimism? Do you think Klopp goes into the dressing room and says "boys, I know we can't expect to beat Burnley today, but just do your best. " Seriously? Did I maybe just take you up wrong? It's early in the morning, I haven't had my coffee yet and so I might well have done. But I would never presume to label anyone the way I seemed to have been labelled above. This might be your site to edit and that's fine but if you label all your patrons here and pigeon hole or name call as I have seen previously without me provoking you (I was in a conversation with a=someone else if not mistaken? ), then this is not what I want to pass my time and I'm quite happy going forward for you to just ignore my posts or just flick on by them. If you have an issue with my opinion, that's fine, but don't label or pigeon hole me with LFC fans generally please. I respected you on all previous correspondence, I'd just ask for the same in return. There I took the bait and bit. I just don't see the reason for the labelling/ pigeon holing. I'm not a delusional LFC fan who ever thinks we'll win the league each season but I'm optimistic and hope we can beat the Burnleys of the league (again, to re-iterate - I mean the lower to mid table teams) .
Good luck!

{Ed025's Note - for one its not my site kev, and for two you are missing the point mate, my problem is that you are being aloof and disrespectful to a team like burnley who are the lifeblood of the league, its your terminology with statements like "we should batter burnley" that gets me, who the bloody hell are liverpool to treat teams like that, show some decorum and respect for gods sake and realize that it was actually burnley that battered you last season and your downfall was against the teams like them that cost you dear, i think i might be wasting my time so i will leave it with just one word...sigh..


33.) 19 Sep 2017 08:30:00
ED025, You want us to be happy with 2 points dropped against a team who will yet again fight in the relegation battle mate? I am sorry but with that mindset we wouldn't win anything anytime soon! The bare minimum target you set is not to drop points at HOME! No disrespect to Burnley but are we just playing for fun or we really mean to challenge the title.

We dres against Watford and I thought all other top teams would also drew against Watford. City spanked half a dozen on Saturday!

{Ed025's Note - im not saying you should be happy harry you are missing the point, its about respect for other teams, their players and supporters, who died and made liverpool a club who can treat others like something they should scrape off their shoe?, thats one of the main reasons why you cant win the league because you expect to steamroller teams like burnley, and why other teams fans are delighted you dont mate..


34.) 19 Sep 2017 09:23:41
Spot on, Ed25 and great post, MK. Burnley have NEVER conceded a hammering since they came back up last season and we all know why so for some people to keep thinking we should be hammering them or any other lesser team is the reason for the pathetic, OTT reactions when that does not happen. The arrogance and hubris on here is deafening. LFC ain't all that and have not been for years, I'll have some of you know here so get off your high horses cos we are no longer a force and this, since over two decades now.

There are no easy games in the PL and that much is clear and cos City beat Watford 6-0 does not mean we will either. Football is NOT an exact science even if many want it to be. Every game and it's context is different.

Our attack is fine and has always been fine since Klopp arrived. That is NOT the issue for the upteeth time. The issue is us continuing to make mistakes at the back or us not putting teams away of late. Sometimes, you won't score goals and there your defence and GK have to bail out the attack and that is where we are struggling. So again, all these "top striker" crap is nonsense and a rabbit hole that leads nowhere.

{Ed025's Note - im glad that at least some of you get the point bingo..


35.) 19 Sep 2017 19:38:53
I've only seen this response now.
You have taken me completely the wrong way.
I'm not going into it again but I can tell you that you've completely misunderstood my previous post.

{Ed025's Note - lets just move on kev..


 

 

 

SGRed's rumour replies

 

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17 Oct 2017 11:34:10
I'm sure we'll be back in for VVD if he's available, doubt we'll buy anyone else though if he's not. Don't see any keepers in Jan, we already have three.

SGRed

{Ed002's Note - What do you mean by "back in"?


 

 

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14 Oct 2017 02:42:48
Good post and very true but I also think the CBs aren’t helped by having

- no CDM shielding the back 4
- FBs who are either error prone/ very attack minded or still learning their craft
- GKs who still have questions over them

I’m sure if they had Azpilicueta alongside them, De Gea behind them and Matic in front it would be a very different looking pair. Klopp needs to revisit how he sets up the balance of the defence rather than just the CB pair.

For starters I think we should play Karius in goal, Robertson and Gomez at FB, Matip and Lovren at CB and Can as shielding CDM.

SGRed

 

 

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04 Oct 2017 01:22:20
No bitterness, just reality - why should the schedule be set to make it easier for any one club over another. no excuses, same for both teams, let's just get on with it and smash the mancs or we only have ourselves to blame.

SGRed

 

 

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18 Sep 2017 22:42:57
I'm pretty sure we'll be asking to speak to him and if Southampton refuse then we will back down and look elsewhere before trying again in the summer. We'll be playing a very straight bat on this one.

SGRed

 

 

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11 Sep 2017 12:58:13
Precautionary I believe.

If you get the chance to look at the highlights on LFC TV, take a look at Yan Dhandas curl on that free kick that was just saved. wow. Nice goal from free play too, looking very useful and we have a lot of talent in young attacking players at the moment with him, Woodburn, Ojo, Wilson, Brewster etc.

Also think Matty Virtue is a name we could hearing more of before too long. He's playing great football in a box to box role, might be due a shot in cup game alongside Grujic.

SGRed

 

 

 

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17 Oct 2017 11:38:57
Ron Keague?

SGRed

 

 

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16 Oct 2017 10:52:15
Agree Ed and I made this point back end of last season - the way we shifted to a more conservative game plan when we starting leaking results in Jan was a clear indication klopp can adapt and I don’t understand people that think we have no plan B

I for one was very happy with the Man Utd game - not because of the draw but for the balance we showed in the game. Only one side ever really had a good chance of winning and if we can do that more often, over the course of a season we’ll be in good shape

Klopp will hopefully never lose his swashbuckling touch but to be able to control that game at times too is critical to challenging against the best.

SGRed

 

 

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16 Oct 2017 10:46:15
You mean as in ‘pin the tail on the . ’?

Just kidding mate - we love you really.

SGRed

 

 

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15 Oct 2017 10:45:45
Maybe I set the bar a little low Ed25 but compared to previous games where our midfield has been bypassed way too easily, way too often, I felt we had complete control of the park this time and pressed well when we lost possession.

Yes I agree we could still get more attacking threat from them but Gini seemed far more up for carrying the ball forward than previous games, Can got into the box more etc. and against Mourinho you will naturally have to make a lot of sideways passes while you probe for an opening. It’s when we do it when there’s space all over the park that drives me nuts.

I’m also not saying it’s the best performance ever but it’s a base to start from and I’d rather we didn’t look so porous first, then worked out how we get the best out of a top attack second. I’m sure given time we’ll get back into the scoring habit, and if we’re doing so with clean sheets we’ll race up the table.

SGRed

{Ed025's Note - if you dominate a game like yesterday SG then you have to make it count, too much pussy footing around in midfield and a misfiring attack means you will lose ground for me mate, united are 10 points ahead and its not because they are great its because they are clinical in finishing teams off..


 

 

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14 Oct 2017 18:06:56
Overall I’ll take that. Decent performances from everyone in the pitch, especially midfield with Hendo, Gini and Can doing a good job of running the show.

In the bigger context a loss would have been tough on the confidence, but a point against Man Utd and a clean sheet with some decent defending is something to take forward and hopefully the goals start going in again soon.

Shocked at just how unadventurous Mourinho was. surely they had a bit more guts to give it a try than that?

SGRed

{Ed025's Note - the midfield were awful for me SG continually passing sideways and backward, the movement was not quick enough which made it easy for united to stifle most of the attacks mate..