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12 Oct 2020 08:13:03
Ed2 I'd welcome your sage views on the new league and cup proposals and changes being put forward. Do you feel they are the correct thing to do and do you believe they will be voted through? I hear all the big six are in approval.

1jj

{Ed002's Note - Stephen Ross of the Miami Dolphins, has on several occasions requested a meeting with an extant group of sides considering the pan-European breakaway to discuss his proposals. They have no interest in such a discussion but having identified the source of much of the funding (and that raising a concern) will wish to discuss it between themselves again. This has dragged on for four years and nothing has happened - and I doubt it will. However, Ross with the help of Liverpool owners FSG organised a meeting of a number of clubs in Paris during January 2020 including Arsenal, Bayern Munich, PSG, Atletico, Manchester United, Juventus, Liverpool in order to discuss expanding the pre-season International Champions Cup to a much larger event where clubs would be members of the tournament through a debenture type system but need to commit to playing their first team in all games. Ajax, Chelsea, both Milan sides, Borussia Dortmund, Monaco, Marseille, Real Madrid and Spurs refused invitations to attend. Ross wants UEFA to formally recognise the tournament (there has been a discussion already) which would be a money spinner but will add many more first team games to the annual schedule. This is one driver that has led to the proposal arising commissioned report that the Liverpool owners had written by a third party in order to ensure certain income is allocated on the basis of more for the more successful sides and proposes reducing the size of the league to 18 (aligning with what UEFA and FIFA would like), scratching the League Cup and the Charity Shield. This is the larger plan for Liverpool to initially host International Champion Cup pre-season tournament run every year that would require clubs to commit playing full first team squads. This clashes with the views of FIFA. The reduction is the size of the league makes some sense but will be difficult for the Premier League to pass. Eventually the clubs will look to self-distribution of a number of games that could collapse the broadcaster deal and that would likely, in a few years, collapse the whole football pyramid in England and cut off money going to the EFL. The FA are looking at tweaking Home Grown and Club Developed rules which could hit one or two clubs hard - not least Liverpool. This all comes from the growth potential of Liverpool now flattening out – the owners would like to find a way to squeeze more out – and that is the reason that they have the support of Manchester United. It is one of a number of proposals kicking around - they come and go.}


1.) 12 Oct 2020 12:33:54
Thanks Ed2 as always for the detailed and brilliant reply. It does feel like a land grab to me and the timing/ message around the £250m to EFL seems cynical at best. Even though change is often scary to some I'm not sure the current proposals are the best way forward to all clubs and not just the elite few.

The part I like the least is the 'rule of 6' as clearly that means any future changes will get through without any real challenge and that could really damage football as we know it forever.

{Ed002's Note - It proposes nine not six.}


2.) 12 Oct 2020 13:48:09
Sorry the big six plus Everton, West Ham and Southampton I assume? Point being of they are the ones being favoured then presumably they are highly
Likely to agree to any future changes?

{Ed002's Note - I would not be thinking about that at this moment in time. Other sides may well not look to agree with the plan of the Liverpool owners.}


3.) 13 Oct 2020 13:07:16
ed002 I think there is far to much being put on the premier league by the whole of football. It is a business like every other the amount of greengrocers butchers and bakeries that have closed because of the big supermarkets all over the country and there is no call to take money of them. The average weekly wage uk is about £600 yet in league 2 it is over £2000 a week and the standard is awful, Am from Grimsby ed and the last few times I went to watch Grimsby play it was not much better than Sunday league football. Am past playing now ed but when I did play Sunday league Adam Buckley was playing for Grimsby in the championship and he use to come training with us he was not even in the top 5 players at training. I don't know of any country that has so many pro teams like the uk ed. I see that league 1 average weekly wage is over £4000 that's the problem ed all them clubs are paying way over the odds and that needs to stop not expect somebody else to help run your club.

{Ed002's Note - Certainly the owners of some clubs would like to see a salary cap introduced but it is difficult to implement at a player-level when we are so far down the line. Implementing it at club level can be done (e.g. no more than 60% of income can be spent on wages) but there is a problem doing that from country to country, where the likes of Portugal, a very much poorer nation, see far less revenue than say England. Porto are a very successful side but get less than a third of the revenue that a club like Liverpool gets. At the lower tiers of English football, it is hard to see how the professional game can be sustained - and this I have explained in detail before.}


4.) 13 Oct 2020 13:49:47
I think 60% should be put in for English teams Ed all that most of the owners of these teams are doing is gambling on getting up and wanting more money from the top of the game. I think ed if we pay more money to the lower leagues it would not sort the problem out they would just spend more trying to get up and drive the wages higher.

{Ed002's Note - There is guidance which is set at 70%.}


5.) 14 Oct 2020 08:31:08
Ed why would Southampton be included? No offense to them but I'd have thought that Leicester, Wolves or even Newcastle are 'bigger' clubs, no?

{Ed002's Note - It is nothing to do with "bigger" clubs. It is nonsense cooked up on behalf of Liverpool based on time in the PL. They very naively think it will bring support.}


6.) 14 Oct 2020 10:13:18
Aha okay thanks Ed002. Nonsense indeed. Even by that logic Newcastle and Villa have been in it more seasons than Southampton. I guess it doesn't matter though, since their proposal is presumably a complete non-starter.

{Ed002's Note - It may well be based on continuous time. The whjole thing is simply about the Liverpool owners and to some extent the Manchester United owners looking to squeeze more money out of their investment and to try and get the growth potential rising. They are getting close to the point where it makes sense to pull their money out of the club and re-invest it in a club with better growth potential.}


 

 

05 Oct 2020 16:58:09
Grujic is staying for now.

1jj

1.) 05 Oct 2020 17:02:22
Shame they had to be petty about a loan deal, now they will have to pay wages for a player they can't get a work permit for.


2.) 05 Oct 2020 18:32:42
So which non-HG player is leaving? Confused.


3.) 05 Oct 2020 18:55:33
Nobody. Unless there's some last minute activity.


4.) 05 Oct 2020 18:51:29
Maybe there is something I am not getting regarding Grujic's work permit. He was able to play in the Arsenal Carabao Cup game, what changes once the window closes. Is it because there is a potential for him to leave or he becomes an permanent employee at the closure of the window?

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool applied for a WP and were granted, or maybe only requested, 28 days. If he stays they need to go back and put a case for a WP. He wants out but it is proving difficult. Unless one non HG player leaves to day the club will not be able to register everyone,}


5.) 05 Oct 2020 17:19:31
Why could he play in the 2 Cup games?

{Ed002's Note - he has a 28 day WP.}


6.) 05 Oct 2020 19:03:43
How is it that Grujic can't get a WP eds?

{Ed002's Note - This has been done to death over the last couple of years. Liverpool could go back and request one under the exceptions rule but it would need to be accompanied by an apology.}


7.) 05 Oct 2020 19:15:22
Cheers Ed02!


8.) 05 Oct 2020 19:57:07
Who do we need to write the letter to ed2😉 I’ll do it! I saw enough in 2 games to make me think he’s good enough.


9.) 05 Oct 2020 21:38:53
I am guessing Gruijic will be the one to miss out on the pl team, what a waste of a talent until the next window. Poor lad has been horribly mishandled.


10.) 05 Oct 2020 22:06:31
Can Gruijic, still be loaned or sold to lower (Championship) clubs until 10/ 16?

{Ed002's Note - Yes, and to anywhere the window is still open.}


11.) 06 Oct 2020 10:10:18
I hope it doesn't go as bad as it did for Markovich, it's getting to that point.


 

 

14 May 2020 20:57:47
Love what Kane has done sponsoring Leyton Orients shirts for next season on behalf of three charities. For his faults surely we can all agree this was a great move by the man.

1jj

1.) 14 May 2020 22:55:41
Harry or Herbie?
anyways, that is cool. But what I want to know is, will Leyton Orient be sporting a pic of Kane on their shirts!?


2.) 14 May 2020 23:44:04
Brilliant touch.


3.) 15 May 2020 01:07:15
Well he claims it, but it was really Erikson.
(Joking) be nice to see more of this from the players at the top.


4.) 15 May 2020 08:16:12
He is claiming all of Orient’s goals now though.
But, yes, nice of him that move.


 

 

07 Dec 2019 09:08:17
Ed2 Klopp has said we might get a striker in Jan if Brewster goes on loan. My question is about Gabriel Barbosa. I know he struggled in Italy hence current loan but he has a good goals record in South America recently and said he'd like to join Liverpool. How good is he in your opinion and could he join us?

1jj

{Ed002's Note - There would be a serious concern about how he would settle and Liverpool have shown no interest in him.}


1.) 07 Dec 2019 09:48:54
I’d like to join Liverpool also.


2.) 07 Dec 2019 09:48:08
Thanks Ed for quick reply.


3.) 07 Dec 2019 10:52:30
Ed002, I was just going to ask about Gabigol, but I see you already addressed that. How about this young Brazilian striker, Evanilson? I read he might be an option for Liverpool, and that his contract at Fluminese will expire in a few months, and they are desperate to sell because of their financial situation. I have no idea how true any of this is. Mind commenting on this, Ed?

{Ed002's Note - I know nothing of him I am afraid. Has he played for the first team? He could not become HG so it makes little sense.}


4.) 08 Dec 2019 04:00:51
Zlatan is available.


5.) 08 Dec 2019 10:22:17
Klopp didn’t say we might get a striker in Jan if Brewster go’s?


 

 

12 Jun 2019 20:16:19
Opening fixture next season we are away to Burnley and City Monday nighty away to wolves (according to leak - let's see if true tomorrow haha! )

1jj

1.) 12 Jun 2019 20:36:41
The leak also showed that we're being covered by BT Sport at 5:30pm. Even though BT Sport have only got the Saturday Lunchtime games.

Take of that what you will, but I see that leak as BS.


2.) 13 Jun 2019 10:43:24
Home to Norwich so yeah the 'leak' was bull.


 

 

 

1jj's banter posts with other poster's replies to 1jj's banter posts

 

19 Apr 2021 17:02:54
Liverpool's master plan? At last minute we pull out whilst other big five set up ESL - then we win more league titles then ManU and more Champions league titles than Real Madrid!

1jj

1.) 19 Apr 2021 17:19:11
I hope you've read the tarrow cards correctly 1jj.


2.) 19 Apr 2021 17:53:32
W/ o having top players and playing in a second rate competition w/ o fan/ people interested much in it? EPL w/ o it's top 5/ 6 clubs in the league will turn in to scottish league, Rangers and Celtic might even be invited that's how bad the league will turn. All money Ratings will be sucked up by ESL.

{Ed002's Note - I have explained elsewhere about the Britsh league option.}


3.) 19 Apr 2021 18:34:29
Just found it on European pages ed2 mate, incase if everyone is interested to see here we go

{Ed002's Note - It is something like this right now:

There are several counter-proposals to the proposed pan-European breakaway that have been backed by UEFA to try and save their own skin. The first proposal was to rename and change the format of the UEFA Champions League to make it an elite closed-shop pan-European league with a fixed number of teams – and these would be the same teams every year and be based on past winners of the Champions League and European Cup and a few (not specified) more. It would then require the restructuring of the Europa League and the introduction of a lower-tier European competition again (which is happening regardless) . Although they have yet to flesh out the detail and there is now a major concern that the impetus for this is not coming from Europe, although one major Football Association has given their support and discussions have also been held with the leading clubs from England (Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal) . The American backer, Stephen Ross of the Miami Dolphins, has on several occasions requested a meeting with an extant group of sides considering the pan-European breakaway to discuss his proposals. They have no interest in such a discussion but having identified the source of much of the funding (and that raising a concern) will wish to discuss it between themselves again. This has dragged on for three years and nothing has happened - and I doubt it will. Ross with the help of Liverpool owners FSG organised a meeting of a number of clubs in Paris during January 2020 including Arsenal, Bayern Munich, PSG, Atletico, Manchester United, Juventus, Liverpool in order to discuss expanding the pre-season International Champions Cup to a much larger event where clubs would be members of the tournament through a debenture type system but need to commit to playing their first team in all games. Ajax, Chelsea, both Milan sides, Borussia Dortmund, Monaco, Marseille, Real Madrid and Spurs refused invitations to attend. Ross wants UEFA to formally recognise the tournament (there has been a discussion already) which would be a money spinner but will add many more first team games to the annual schedule.

However, UEFA are still also considering a variant proposal that would see some places in the CL fixed (probably to previous winners) and then see it supplemented by Champions and second place sides each season. This complicates matters again as it means the re-introduction of a third competition or the significant restructuring of the EL. The plan being put to clubs is a summer/ preseason tournament that will evolve into a parallel league, and of course eventually into a complete breakaway for these clubs. As a first step to all of this, UEFA have negotiated minor changes that will see the four entrants from England, Germany, Spain and Italy enter the existing Champions’ League group stages without any qualification beyond their National League position (so no entry to qualifying rounds) . This has been agreed by the European Club Association but UEFA did not want to discuss it with the separate group of “elite” sides discussing the Pan European League (and that “elite” group includes three English sides) as they are aware they will get no more than a shrug and no long-term support - and that is where we are now.

The new UEFA plans, which would come into force in 2024, state that the 32-team Champions League for the 2024/ 25 season would be chosen based on UEFAs domestic club rankings from the period between the 2020/ 21 and 2023/ 24 seasons, effectively shutting out clubs who are not doing well prior to 2024. What it does is make an early start for a breakaway (pre 2024) very unlikely. Timing wise, two very prominent clubs wanted it to happen as soon as possible (2021 was the most recently proposed date) and they have the support of a third club - but most are looking at 2023 to 2025 being a good option. A few clubs are looking at 2025 to 2028 and I suspect that could end up as the reality. Changes to this proposal (which would see the expansion to 36 sides and other minor changes are being voted on April 19. Some clubs want leverage, and this is the likely reason for the announcement today.

Right now, of the 21 clubs involved in the “elite” club discussions, two have said they will not be in any breakaway league and three have said they may not compete. That will likely change by the time anything eventually happens and talks will continue. The primary UEFA plans, which would come into force in 2024, state that the 32-team Champions League for the 2024/ 25 season would be chosen based on UEFAs domestic club rankings from the period between the 2020/ 21 and 2023/ 24 seasons, effectively shutting out clubs who are not doing well prior to 2024. What it does is make an early start for the Elite to move on (pre 2024) very unlikely. Timing wise, two very prominent clubs wanted it to happen as soon as possible (2021 was the most recently proposed date) and they have the support of a third club - but most are looking at 2023 to 2025 being a good option. A few clubs are looking at 2025 to 2028 and I suspect that could end up as the reality. They will meet later this week to consider what UEFA have sais and some clubs are involved in this latest proposal.

The other major counter proposal is a Chinese proposal from the Dalian Wanda Group proposes to open up the lucrative Chinese and Far Eastern media markets by extending the league to include Chinese and South American clubs. This has yet to be discussed by the "elite" sides as a group although the proposals have been presented to a number of them already on an individual basis. The proposals are very broad-based and lack detail - their selling point is significant additional income for the "elite". The general feeling from informal discussions over cocktails is that the "elite" would not want it on a league basis but could be open to including other sides in some sort of expanded World Club – and that is where FIFA would come in. The C.V. will have done for this for now.

Liverpool has failed in attempt to disrupt the English game to support an expanded Club World Cup on a debenture basis. The FA have tried to work a proposal that would see a smaller Premier League and introduce a Premier League 2 - the idea being with fewer Premier League games the higher-profile sides would be able to compete in any reshaped European competition whilst maintaining a their position in England - this appeals to some clubs (e. g. Chelsea) and allows The FA to keep control. Liverpool and Manchester United were involved in discussions but turned against it wanting more control themselves - and that led Liverpool to say they will form their own breakaway league. Attempts at a compromise solution have fallen apart. This was Project Big Foot and is about FSG wanting more money, and that is to some extent what is behind this and why JP Morgan have been roped in.

If the proposal for a breakaway goes ahead, there is every likelihood that the big money from television, sponsorship etc. would go with a breakaway league. It would completely rupture the operations of UEFA and I would expect it would require national associations like the FA to restructure their leagues. Nobody wants this but it is the eventual consequence I would expect. Initially it could be that there is a single 16 team league with 2 or 3 EPL teams making the initial plunge. If I had to speculate, I would think (1) you might eventually see something like five or six EPL teams leave for two-tier pan European league - but it won't be based on the UEFA rankings; (2) the Premier League would be disbanded as an organisation; (3) the FA would restructure in to two 20 team divisions with lower leagues regionalised as they were many years ago; (4) FIFA would ban all players from the breakaway teams from International football - perhaps rescinding that position to stop FIFA breaking up as well - they don't want further issues but the troubles are not going to go away. I could also see many teams lose their professional status. I would think we are probably 10 years away from any significant move at this time. UEFA would exclude all of the teams from their competitions.

I hold a reasonably strong view in terms of the need to restructure football in Europe in any case. For me an eventual a breakaway pan-European league would force the restructuring of many of the national leagues, possibly resulting in a British league with perhaps only a couple of professional tiers and then regionalised amateur leagues below that. Financially I do not see that so many pro sides can be sustained within the sport which, like it or not, will see more and more money going in to the highest levels of the game. Governments will ensure that grassroots sport get funding but everything in the middle (Southern, Northern, Conference, Division 2, Scottish Divisions 1-3, League of Wales will not get the funding needed to continue on any sort of professional basis. For me, clubs should already recognise this and put their efforts in to getting there finances in order to see if they can make it to a British professional league that will need to flourish without perhaps six sides that have eventually gone down the pan-European route - and have gone for good (it would be two or perhaps three initially) . Clubs like Accrington Stanley will need to carry on as amateurs or face extinction (yet again) . Recently Hartlepool has been struggling - again it needs to adapt. The mighty Third Lanark have started their long journey back to the top - it can be done.

The game has changed significantly and will continue to do so whether the Liverpool supporters like it or not. Football at the highest level is big business and attracts the sponsorship it does because the sponsors wish to tap into the disposable income of the fans and ride the back of the advertising that flows naturally from the success some clubs achieve. Long gone are the days of the cloth-capped, hobnailed-booted, chimney sweep making his way, rattle in hand, to cheer on his team at Anfield on a Saturday afternoon. I have explained that there will be changes, probably within the next 10 to 12 years, which will force the restructuring of all of the leagues in Europe and likely do away with the likes of UEFA. You will have the opportunity to see the likes of Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus and the other major European sides play in week-on-week regular competition at The Emirates, St James Park, Stamford Bridge or wherever. Fans of the sides who take the plunge will have the opportunity to visit cities such as Milan, Barcelona, Munich, etc. every couple of weeks to watch their team play. If you want to don your cloth cap, have a pint of wallop with your chums before going off to the local match through the grim, wet and cobbled streets of the Northwest of England where there is smog, dead and dying pit ponies laying on the street and only chips and fried curry to eat., perhaps one of the sides from the suburbs will have survived so you can go and watch them?

It was thought that a possible option might have resulted from a potential landmark decision that UEFA were to make in June or July 2017 - and that could facilitate the ownership of lower-tier sides by the more senior sides and then work as a feeder club. However – the need to make that decision was avoided.

The ramifications will be that clubs are kicked out of domestic, UEFA and FIFA competition - and this is just another option that is on the table for now. Nothing will happen overnight and there are huge legal issues that would need to be addressed before the UEFA proposed changes for 2024 which they will further amend and vote on tomorrow) . There will be a push by some clubs to make the Champions League a closed shop to some extent (but not completely) and this will be used to leverage they situation with UEFA. In reality some clubs just want leverage. The “elite” sides will meet later this week after one side requested it today (April 18). That might be more telling.


 

 

19 Apr 2021 16:52:58
The new big six? Within five years we will be moaning about their dominance and so it goes on lol.

Leicester
West Han
Everton
Villa
Wolves
Leeds.

1jj

 

 

19 Apr 2021 09:35:47
One way for Everton to win the league!

1jj

1.) 19 Apr 2021 09:43:19
If this breakaway league goes ahead, I’d rather follow Everton. What they’re planning on doing will ruin football as we know it. I hope if it does how ahead it fails miserably, I for one won’t be following it.


2.) 19 Apr 2021 09:44:38
up the blues. finally Ed025 smiles.


 

 

04 Apr 2021 12:08:58
Hobson's choice. Guaranteed top four place or 5th place and CL final but could lose and miss out on top four. No other options in this choice!

Which would you choose?

1jj

1.) 04 Apr 2021 12:24:49
Football is about winning trophies not finishing 4th.


2.) 04 Apr 2021 12:30:46
1jj great question mate and I think most will say CL final as it’s everything to gain but also the most to lose. Winning the CL is still one of the hardest things to do in football hence why we have only won it 6 times and some great clubs and sides far less or even not at all. I think if we want to challenge for the league next season then we need to do it without Europa League football next season as it’s far too much or a disturbance even if we play the reserves. On paper I’d still say getting top 4 is far easier than wining the CL. Beating Villa, Leeds, Newcastle, Utd, Saints, wba, Burnley and Palace sounds far more likely than Real, Chelsea/ Porto and Possibly City, Bayern or PSG in a final. But the way the season is going who would bet against us losing to the teams in the league and beating the top teams in Europe.


3.) 04 Apr 2021 12:43:18
Jimmy, tell that to De Gea and Willian who literally said that they preferred to make the top 4 rather than win an FA. Cup before Utd played Chelsea in the 17/ 18 final.


4.) 04 Apr 2021 12:43:30
CL final of course but playing Europa or god forbid the new conference league would be very very painful.


5.) 04 Apr 2021 14:22:28
anyone still celebrating the league cup king Kenny won.


6.) 04 Apr 2021 18:14:32
Football is also about having the money to keep the club where they want to be and the chance of buying players. So if its a choice of top 4 or just a CL final with no guarantee of winning then I would take top 4. At least we would get another CL run next season for sure.


 

 

08 Mar 2021 08:51:29
Ed 2 hope you are well. Quick question. Most PL fans see the Europa league as a hindrance to achieving better league results. Considering Liverpool's current financial situation can we afford to miss out for a season if that happened?

Thanks.

1jj

{Ed002's Note - Most clubs are happy to have the opportunity to play in European competition which brings income and the opportunity to play against different teams. Should Liverpool feel this is beneath them like many of the fans do, they can simply withdraw if they want. Financially, it would not be a disaster for the club.}


 

 

 

1jj's rumour replies

 

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03 Apr 2021 18:30:47
Surely we don’t want a CF that scores goals - that would ruin our ability to score goals?!

1jj

 

 

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03 Feb 2021 19:27:40
He is out tonight but don’t know for how long.

1jj

 

 

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08 Dec 2020 16:07:57
Another Pogba.

1jj

 

 

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13 Nov 2020 18:50:09
He is unlikely to play again this season.

1jj

 

 

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15 Oct 2020 10:00:42
ED2 I think it's wrong what Liverpool, ManU and Parry attempted. Am I right in thinking ManCity, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea backed it?

1jj

{Ed002's Note - One of those clubs gave it support.}


 

 

 

1jj's banter replies

 

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19 Apr 2021 16:40:15
Watford.

1jj

 

 

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11 Apr 2021 13:04:58
Best for liverpool is West Ham and ManU win.

1jj

 

 

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03 Apr 2021 23:20:31
Jaydee that badly backfired didn’t it.

1jj

 

 

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03 Apr 2021 23:19:43
I thought he looked rather dashing in a 1930s sort of way.

1jj

 

 

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24 Mar 2021 19:01:00
Keane. Diouf. Carroll. 10 years domination right there!

1jj