Liverpool Banter Archive December 04 2017

04 Dec 2017 22:13:02
I think Firminho has had a poor season so far and is the main reason we are only 4th in the league. He has been below average in most matches and is totally over rated on this site.

04 Dec 2017 22:41:42
12 goals and 4 assists in 24 games and he's accused of having a poor season and being overrated. Who exactly are you comparing him to?

04 Dec 2017 22:48:02
I hope that was sarcasm?

04 Dec 2017 23:18:12
"Controversy equalizes fools and wise men in the same way; and the fools know it. "

Oliver Wendell Holmes.

04 Dec 2017 23:33:35
24 games,12 goals, 4 assists I need to lay off the ale I can't remember half of that lot.

05 Dec 2017 00:00:08
I think the word is ‘troll’.

05 Dec 2017 00:17:44
Please god let that be a wind up.

05 Dec 2017 00:52:42
🎣🎣🎣.

05 Dec 2017 06:10:28
Firmino will take over the armband from Henderson once his English is polished up.

05 Dec 2017 06:24:35
post of the season lol.

05 Dec 2017 06:25:45
Think he is right, he is the reason we are fourth, if he wasnt we would probs be eighth.

05 Dec 2017 07:13:34
if it wasn't mark, I would say a fine piece of sarcasm.

05 Dec 2017 08:07:33
It's not sarcasm. Mark has NOTHING good to say about LFC, Klopp or his players. Like ND said, he is either a troll or MK's quote describes him perfectly. Or both.

05 Dec 2017 08:39:41
Sadly it's probably not sarcasm.

05 Dec 2017 09:13:03
Of course its bloody sarcasum. But if you read the posts and match reports on here you would think he had been our best player this season and we were challenging for the title. If Firminho has a very good game like agains't Brighton he is rightly given the plaudits but when he is average or below average like agains't Stoke nothing is said.

Some on here give him credit for everything. Salah has scored the goals but Firminho gets most of the credit because he makes space. Its just so over the top, MK says he is on the verge of world class. Complete and utter bollocks, he is miles away from world class.

I want to keep it balanced but it is just out of hand. When he plays well let's all say so. But in the second half agains't Seville he was shocking. Agains't Stoke the ball was bouncing off him a lot. They were putting us under pressure and he couldn't keep the ball.

The match report should have said for Firminho - didn't have his best game and didn't contribute in terms of the goals but worked hard as usual. Struggled for a period in the first half and he needs to work on holding the ball. But instead it says wasn't it brilliant he didn't try to walk in a goal. Do me a favour.

For the match reports everyone should be judged on that particular match. What is happening is people are trying to prove a point that Firminho is this or that. Its a long season and I have seen nothing yet that says over a whole season Firminho can play centre forward (every game) . Of course when PC is on top of his game and Salah is playing well the system all looks great. My worry is when that is not the case like v Man U, Spurs, City, Burnley etc. I hope Firminho is on an upward curve and I would expect him to be as he learns the position.

Lets not say world class
lets not say one of the best strikers in the world
lets not pretend he is in Kane or even Jesus level.
Lets say when he has a poor game and what he can improve on.

Also someone put a a post that Firminho is not at the level of Salah, PC or Mane and everyone marked it as a negative. I think its correct he is not quite at their level. PC has been our player of the year for 3 years in a row and Barcelona want him for North of £100m of course Firminho is not at his level. Remember he is not first choice for his country and sometimes not second choice.

Lets just have a more balanced, thoughtful views. Not try to justify what we have said previosly on this forum.

05 Dec 2017 09:57:58
I actually said he is "on the verge of world class at times". Nice paraphrasing though to try and back up your non existent point.

Some of his performances are close to, if not world class. Obviously other games he isn't as good, hence why i used the words at times. Though he wasn't bad at Stoke at all so i can only assume you didn't watch the game. I've only seen him play below his usual lofty standards in a handful of games this season. Most notably against United, City and Spurs. So no doubt he has to up his game against stronger opposition.

I don't need to pretend he is at Kane's level, because he is at Kane's level. He just does a different job. As for Jesus, you must be having a laugh. Great little player, but he is nowhere near as influential as Firmino. Jesus profits from the quality of others, whereas in our team others profit from the quality of Firmino.

I really don't know what your problem is with Liverpool, Klopp, Firmino and clearly me (who you seem to screenshot every post for future evidence), but it's getting a bit said mate. Everybody here knows your OP wasn't sarcasm so don't back down from your foolish POV just because the only thumbs up your post got came from yourself. You made your bed, so lie in it. Nobody will take you seriously ever again after this.

05 Dec 2017 10:16:30
Of course it was sarcasm I have never once said he is not a good player. (of course until this) . I would rather have Owen, Fowler, Suarez, Torries as my centre forward. I think Firminho has to improve parts of his game.

Klopp should have bought some defenders - no brainer

Liverpool I love them as much as anybody else but I get frustrated with people going over the top about individual players and/ or happy to settle for a challenge for fourth. Above all like some people on here I am worried that in 5 years time we won't have improved and we will be still challenging for fourth. We are 14 points of the top and it really pees me off.

Can looks worls class when he is on top of his game, as do many many players. Mane, PC, Salah. There is only one world class player in the Prem and its the GK at ManUre.

05 Dec 2017 10:20:55
This is where we disagree 100%. You say its all down to Firminho I say it only works when 2 out of Mane, PC, Salah are playing well. You can leave as much space as you want but the other players need to exploit the space.

I just think Mane, Salah and PC as a front 3 score the same goals with or without Firminho. I think he is our 4th best player where as you think he is the best.

05 Dec 2017 11:39:57
Hazard, Kante, Salah, Firmino (yes he is on edges that Griezmann even said . ) Sanchez, Kane Just few others that you could mentioned as world class as De hea isn’t the only one in the premier league mate to be fair.

05 Dec 2017 12:03:08
@mark. “Firminho” doesn’t even play for Liverpool, you’ve gone out of your way to watch him closely enough but failed to spell his name properly constantly.

05 Dec 2017 13:16:56
Actually i think Mane, Salah and Coutinho are all just as good as Firmino. However, Firmino is one of the best in the world at what he does and is vital to our system. His role is so specialist that i think he'd be the hardest to replace of the 4.

He also gets unfairly judged on his goal return when that is not why he is in the team. Any goals scored by him are a bonus. He is a false 9. The whole point of that role is that they drop out to try and pull a centre back with them and create a gap for someone else to exploit. Then you add to that his intelligent and effective pressing and he is the main weapon of our attack. De Bruyne doesn't score all of City's goals but he is still almost universally accepted as being their best player.

Football is a team game, and there are very few better team players in the world than Bobby. The fact he has been scoring goals is just a bonus as far as I'm concerned. The gaps his movement creates opens up the space that Mane, Salah and Coutinho have all exploited. They work as a unit and Firmino seems to get less plaudits than the other despite being the second highest scorer of our amazing quartet, and having the second most assists.

He is a great player, capable of world class things, who needs to find just a little bit more consistency to become one of Europe's elite. Nobody is saying he is at the same level as Messi/ Ronaldo. However it is a very legitimate argument to suggest he is our most important player. You are entitled to disagree, but the way you went about it was extreme to say the least.

It came across as deliberately controversial. He clearly hasn't had a bad season when he has scored double figures by the start of December. We are literally not even half way into the season.

05 Dec 2017 13:28:36
I appreciate what firmino offers to the team but I chuckled the other day when someone said he's like a replacement for suarez. Once continho is sold, firmino should drop to midfield and the money should be spent on another goalscorer, with solanke as backup and sturridge sold. Im glad we have mane and salah but it would be nice to have another one of their quality. i've personally never pictured firmino as a striker so when you guys are comparing him to kane, jesus, I don't really see the point. We had this same argument when klopp first joined playing midfielders in attacking roles. Now we've seemed to correct most of that and soon it will be time to play firmino in a more natural position.

05 Dec 2017 14:40:51
Wombat - world class means to me they get into a world 11 or second 11. I take the point on Kante but none of the others. The rest of the list would all need to improve. Kane would be closest for me. Maybe Toby Alderwiereld, or Azpilicueta. From our side Mane has the best chance to reach world class IMO.

I have watched Neymar a few times recently and that guy is definitely world class.

05 Dec 2017 14:48:43
Firmino was out on his feet V Seville, cos of his very high work rate, it was Klopp who didn't sub him who made the error,
and no player is as good as Jesus, sure, that man can walk on water .

04 Dec 2017 18:10:26
Footballer plays well and then wanted by Real Madrid shock!

C'mon reds, we have just gotten over the summer Couts (was never going to be allowed to leave) nonsense and we're already on to the next load of news sites trying to drum up click bait revenue BS. Do we ever learn?

Salah will not be sold in Jan. He has only just arrived. Is clearly enjoying his football. Plus, it makes no sense commercially or for any other reason to sell one of your star players mid season.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

{Ed002's Note - Nobody has suggested anytring about being sold in January.}

04 Dec 2017 18:29:04
If the posts from earlier were meaning summer then my point is why worry about it now? We are barely half way through the season.

It's not good for people's blood pressure :)

My advice is to enjoy their undoubted talent whilst they are here. I believe we have one of the most exciting attacking line ups currently in world football - worry about next summer, next summer.

I'm going to focus on winning Weds and then the derby.

{Ed002's Note - it is simply a case of the player having his agent explore opportunities given that they are looking at brining in two wide players. Madrid has not made any approach to Liverpool.}

04 Dec 2017 18:39:43
I think fans have a mystic feeling that players join for life. It's almost better in some ways we don't hear about what's going on in the background!

04 Dec 2017 18:41:21
Seems like we are in agreement then ED2 as not really anything happening beyond the normal football goings on.

Thanks for the inside info - much appreciated.

04 Dec 2017 19:09:07
Players' agents do this all the time and it means absolutely nothing. It is the nature of the beast called professional football. Pretty sure Salah and his agent know that LFC will NOT be selling to anyone any time soon so there is nothing to see here. Those hyper-ventilating need to calm down and enjoy Salah while he's here.

{Ed002's Note - I am sorry, players do not do this all of the time.}

04 Dec 2017 19:36:11
I would suggest LFC will not take anything less than £80 mill for Salad with season he had.

Baz.

04 Dec 2017 19:48:45
Depends on the seasoning Baz, Caesar salad then maybe.

04 Dec 2017 20:38:35
No supporter is under any illusion that when a player joins a new club it is for life but the least us mere mortals can expect is that the new signing can give us a good 2-3 years before moving on.

05 Dec 2017 00:20:40
Haha love it Ron!

05 Dec 2017 00:35:04
@Baz give me the recipe for that £80 million salad please.

05 Dec 2017 06:30:12
Am i right in saying he would be the first player in history from Egypt to ever play for real Madrid?

05 Dec 2017 07:17:22
that salad must reduce your bodyfat under 5% otherwise not worth the money, moce on and look for a replacement.

05 Dec 2017 08:37:17
That 80m salad will be worth 100m next year, better to not eat it yet.

05 Dec 2017 15:03:49
Baz, not sure where you are eating mate, but its def out of my league,
Joes cafe is good enough for me .

04 Dec 2017 15:40:11
For all those panicking the side is going to collapse with Salah, Coutinho, Can etc. leaving

Transfer history last summer was Lucas and Sakho leaving, both with very different reasons but aside from that no-one else of note

Previous year was a massive clean out but frankly a whole bunch of players we haven't missed - Benteke, Allen, Balo, Skrtel, Ibe

I think the one thing Klopp has gotten really right since joining is not selling our best players so while Coutinho looks set, I can't see him suddenly selling Salah as well.

04 Dec 2017 16:29:49
Fingers crossed Grobs! Keep this team together and we could win some major silverware very soon!

04 Dec 2017 17:21:10
Not far away MK still we require the right additions in the right places. The world and his wife knows we need a CB and a change to our number 1. I would perhaps suggest another midfielder should PC and EC depart with only Keita arriving. Would love Asensio personally but that won't happen.

04 Dec 2017 21:15:50
Mk a think soon as this team wins something (hopefully the far cup this year) then the mindsets will change from nearly men to winners. By that a mean if we had won the league cup 2 seasons ago, a think we would of won the europa league aswell and then that dip in form at xmas last season wouldn't of happened, all ifs and buts a know.
All teams just need that first bit of silverware then it usually kickstarts then in to winning more, and our team is capable of winning every competition we enter.

05 Dec 2017 07:07:49
Madrid could be willing to go all out for him if they don't get their coveted primary targets, one of which i feel pretty sure they won't get.
LFC would be in a name your price situation with madrid, they don't really do their transfers like barca, they usually pay what is required to be paid (and quite a lot of it comes upfront) . It is very tough in that scenario, LFC could be looking to make 100 millions in profit on a player they just bought in last year, business wise it is an unbelievable opportunity.
And if we sell couts and salah both, we are about to get too many million in sales. would it dent the team? yeah ofcourse, but all those people who sit on the tables that matter, know this would be a huge money pot LFC sit on and make things financially viable. Also it enables owners to invest in more players since its commercially very reaping. so we would be giving a lot of players a opportunity to play at big stage, make it big and then sell them on profit, all in while winning maybe some trophies.
In longer run we need money from club to sustain, 250 million from two player sales is an unbelievable opportunity! personally as fan of the club ( and not some random players) i think it would absolutely insane no to sell.
It might create a sellers club image but i don't see what the big deal is with it. I really just want LFC to be the big club it is and it has been, forever.

I know the sentiment then we won't win nothing ever etc etc. As a fan i just support LFC and i won't be supporting any one else win or loose. But I do want the club to be financially viable in coming years, when some rotten big economies of this world are going to meltdown.

04 Dec 2017 14:42:44
what the hell is klopp playing at celebrating Liverpool goals and upsetting rival managers and silly pundits, how dare he show emotions on the touchline, its not like other managers do it is it. this is a far more serious issue than getting rid of diving and cheating, what a world we are living in when a manager gets blasted for enjoying his sides goals.

04 Dec 2017 14:58:39
Stop sarcasm. Klopp over do it, it's plain and simple. Especially the English managers are extremely hurt, we know how sensitive they are. Klopp should know he is on English soil and he must respect the norms here. An occasional fist pump like Moyes is ok but not Klopp's beating of chest gnashing of his teeth, this is no no.

{Ed025's Note - i like his passion and the way he wears his heart on sleeve brudder, plus it winds mourinho up which is great..

04 Dec 2017 15:19:13
I'm all for anything that winds Maureen up Ed.

{Ed025's Note - me too barry..

04 Dec 2017 16:09:06
Didn't hear anyone moaning when Jose ran along the touchline and ended up on his knees. some people seriously need to get a grip.

I don't think Klopp is perfect but you've got to love his passion.

04 Dec 2017 16:43:14
Man we need some better rumors to discuss if the talking point of the day is how animated Klopp gets and the offence other managers take to him. Go out and beat us then if you wanna shut him up, keep scoring, keep winning, keep riling up Mourinho! YNWA.

04 Dec 2017 17:14:14
"he is on english soil and must respect the norms here". that would be restrained england where in 1966 we started a pitch invasion before we'd actually won the world cup right?

04 Dec 2017 18:07:33
What a load of rubbish! It’s nuce to see someone who actually cares that much. There’s enough players about who don’t really care and are just there to pick up the ££££ take the passion out of the game and what are you left with? Robots! Give us more Mr Klopp!

04 Dec 2017 19:25:50
The haters got to hate. In the U. S there's a saying that matches this faux outrage by the biased media and the anti Klopp hacks, "If you're mad, BEAT HIM and stop being a whiney, triggered snowflake".

05 Dec 2017 04:46:35
Didnt conte run around like a chook with it's head cut off and jump into the dugout in celebration of chelsea's equalizer? Mourinho has slid on his knees in celebration of a goal staight across the touch line and onto the field. Personally I think conte is crazier than klopp with his antics.

04 Dec 2017 15:43:31
Ed025, Klopp need to learn English manners. He should learn from Moyes who is perfect gentleman.

{Ed025's Note - yeah im sure he could learn a lot from moyes mate, like how to lose gracefully and taking a knife to a gun fight..

04 Dec 2017 15:48:23
You must be happy with the win at the weekend Ed? His team's play horrible football but Big Sam does get results.

{Ed025's Note - but its selling your soul to the devil barry, yes he gets results and he is now at the biggest club he has managed and will have money at his disposal so we will see if his style changes, you never know i might warm to him if he gets a result against the red men mate..

04 Dec 2017 11:30:18
January is starting to concern me greatly. Sturridge and Coutinho want to leave (albeit for very different reasons), Salah has opened up a shock possibility of himself leaving, and Can could well leave too unless we're prepared to lose him on a free. Add this to our desperate need for centre back and we could be in big trouble, in the worst case scenario.

I think I'd let Coutinho go as long as we can sign Lemar, Meyer, Brandt, Goretzka or Draxler. I'd also let Sturridge leave as Ings now looks fit to me (scored another brace for the u23's this weekend) . We need to focus our resources on a centre back and not get side-tracked on replacing Sturridge when we have Ings and Solanke still.

However I'd tell Can and Salah they are going nowhere until the summer at least. Even despite what is going on behind the scenes, they both still seem fully committed and i think we need them for now. We can't do a 1first team rebuild in January!

04 Dec 2017 11:48:58
Selling 4 first teamers? One has who scored most goals. One who is set to become a monster CM. One who is the best playmaker after iniesta and one who has the best record for goals scored! I like your confidence!

04 Dec 2017 12:04:21
It will be Can and Coutinho leaving in Jan imo MK. Although Barcelona are considering there options now that November has passed.

Ed001, who in your opinion is most likely to leave in Jan out of these mentioned please. Appreciate if you would rather not say.

{Ed001's Note - in January? I doubt any will be allowed to go.}

04 Dec 2017 12:09:36
Sorry MK. There are too many posts, so please excuse me to reply here. You shouted Richarlison. Yes I'm with you. He does look good.

I watched City and West Ham game last night. There are quite a number of good and decent players in West Ham squad. I like what I see in Antonio.

04 Dec 2017 12:16:23
I hope you're right Ed. We need to qualify for Europe and then next summer we can rebuild if necessary. January just isn't long enough and it is too disruptive!

04 Dec 2017 12:17:38
I'd be surprised if salah left, even in the coming summer. He is playing well and exploring his options, but no way we are going to sell him. Couts may well leave along with studge this Jan. As much as I love studge I think its the right move for him, as long as we can replace couts and get a CB I don't think there is a need to worry. Couts I understand his reasons to leave and if his behavior wasnt as stinky as it was at the end of summer and recently I would've had massive respect for the guy, but disgruntled employees do weird things and letting them go may well be the best thing for the team.

Even on the coutinho front I think we are probably keeping him till summer, I am sure one of the eds will correct me if I am wrong.

04 Dec 2017 12:31:22
MK mate, I don’t think we’ll be letting any of the names mentioned in January.

04 Dec 2017 12:33:07
Can't see salah going in Jan. Or even summer if Real get their first targets. But least with Real they will pay good money usually for who they want. We need to learn how to replace players quickly, seems part of modern game players wanting to eventually move away.

04 Dec 2017 12:43:34
I really like Richarlison, Haizan.

He has 5 goals and 4 assists in 15 games this season. For a 20 year old to come to a different continent to play for a perceived lesser team and help to elevate them to being top 6 contenders, is brilliant. Richarlison and Doucoure have been head and shoulders above the rest of what is otherwise a very average Watford team. Those two are a joy to watch.

04 Dec 2017 13:02:39
MKS, can’t see Can going, most likely a pre contract with Juve, (why would they pay for a player who is cup tied when they can wait for 6 months and get him with a hefty signing fee for Can)

Couts again can’t see him going in Jan, I think most likely will be an agreement that he gets his move in the summer to Barcelona (if they don’t move on as speculated)

Studge, will be hot property for the teams in a relegation battle, would be surprised if someone doesn’t try and bid at the very least. He could be the difference between staying up and going down if fit!

Salah I think is a player just looking at options, definitely not going in Jan unless a stupid bid is put in and the summer is a long way off.

As for Richarlison I want to give him a bit longer before we fully judge him, I remember Wigan had a player (Zaki? ) who was scoring for fun at the beginning of the season then couldn’t hit a barn door, us footie fans have a tendency to 'big up players' after a small amount of games.

04 Dec 2017 13:32:38
I think coutinho may throw another strop come January 1st if Barcelona are indeed looking elsewhere. If he does, a few weeks in the reserves might put things into perspective instead of pandering to him. His behaviour is very disappointing to say the least and while I respect the club's stance- not sure it's helping us at all. If we're "sending a message", that's well and good but the message was made in summer transfer window. Perhaps if coutinho was left out of the Brazil team for a few matches it might sway his thinking. He might show the world exactly how good he is and his value at that. Come June the club could have benefitted from his talent and be in a far better position. As it is, it's a sorry state of affairs altogether and can't be helping morale in any way.

04 Dec 2017 14:43:28
I think Sturridge will go on loan with a view to buy in Jan. After all which team in their right mind are going to pay a biggish transfer fee and wage on him without some reassurances that he can play back to back games let alone half a season or more.

04 Dec 2017 15:10:33
Ok ed thanks for reply mate. Interesting you say that as I thought for sure that Couts and Can woukd be leaving mate hence why our interest in the likes of Lemar and possibly Draxler.

04 Dec 2017 16:03:00
Barcelona will play the game and pay what we want for Coutinho, I don’t think Kathryn have all of these options we kee hearing about. Sturridge won’t go because we pay him more than anyone else will, nobody could afford him. Can may go and fair play to him that’s our bad for letting that happen. I see Barcelona pussyfooting around anc PSG or someone else coming in with the money required or a better offer and taking him. I don’t understand the worry, the slightest murmur and too many fans get buck wild crazy.

04 Dec 2017 17:33:52
I can’t believe we are talking about salah possibly leaving. Everyone was talking about mane going when he had his rich vein of form but that’s tailed off.

04 Dec 2017 18:05:25
If Saalah keeps on scoring, which he will, then we are going to attract interest from big clubs Like Real Madrid, we just have to stop the silly goals that we concede, and score plenty to keep hold of him.

04 Dec 2017 19:32:39
Spot on, Ed. Nobody is leaving LFC in Jan, IMO. Who in his right mind would weaken his own team midseason by at least 3/ 4 players? People need to stop pouring gasoline on pretty much an issue where LFC hold all the cards and will NOT be selling Salah now, in the summer or even after next season. The Ed's have said repeatedly that agents looking at options for their clients is nothing new BUT still, people are panicking at the disco for literally no reason. Get a grip and enjoy the games cos you may not have noticed, we are only 2 points behind City in points gained over the past 6 games.

04 Dec 2017 10:11:13
Instead of us being happy and in good moods that we are showing some good form and getting back amongst the top4, we are down in the dumps because Salah has asked his agent to enquire about Madrid possibilies. let's not jump the gun. Im sure agents are sniffing and touting around all the time. It doesn't mean he is going! And if and when he does leave we replace and move on.

Ed I take it this came about after the latest Sharkopod as it wasnt mentioned mate?

{Ed002's Note - Yes.}

04 Dec 2017 19:39:44
Spot on, Kloppsreds. With all the positivity going on at the club, some will still have something to be terrified about. This issue is a nothing burger as agents and even clubs do this all the time. Good heavens, calm down guys.

04 Dec 2017 00:48:15
Eds, with the talk of an exodus from Spurs due to the wage structure, do you think we will make an enquiry and offer improved wages to get the signature of Toby Alderweireld?

I know he was of interest to LFC before he went to Spurs, but now he's proven he can do it in the Prem, it seems a no-brainer to at least enquire if he'd be interested.

{Ed002's Note - No.}

04 Dec 2017 08:08:51
If Alderweireld goes it’ll be to Barca, Real Madrid or one of the oil teams.

04 Dec 2017 08:49:05
I've heard Pepe is a big fan of him and city will make a move if he doesn't sign next summer.

04 Dec 2017 09:22:10
Why are Barcelona and real always seen as the big 2? Is it the attendances, wages, tv coverage? It's not like the league is anything special. Surely there's only one thing that separates them from the big premier league teams, the weather! ☺.

04 Dec 2017 14:45:45
Burkey just have a look at their trophy cabinets the last 20-30 years and the Calibre of player who have put on their shirts. For the majority of footballers real and Barcelona are the holy grail.