Liverpool Banter Archive September 25 2017

25 Sep 2017 23:09:20
Does mane stay next year and stick with the project or jump ship with couts.

I know it's a little early but it does seem players who shine at lfc tend to move on.

What's everyone's thoughts.

Bit early I know.

{Ed025's Note - he stays lee..

25 Sep 2017 23:16:37
Well that ended that then.

I'll go away and re-think another interest debate lol.

Something with centre backs in I reckon.

{Ed025's Note - or keepers..

25 Sep 2017 23:23:35
Hahahaha,

Cheers ed I've got a lot to think about, I'll post again next month.

26 Sep 2017 01:10:42
Was mane's a four year contract? There is no way he will leave next summer. Two, three years later, who knows? Way too soon to speculate.

26 Sep 2017 01:54:32
Mane may well want to leave if we don't get top4, but FSG and Klopp will not sell at any price. The Coutinho saga proved that, and Mane has stated that Klopp was the reason he joined LFC so cannot see him turning his back on Klopp so soon.

26 Sep 2017 03:35:45
Depends on the influence of his agent too.

26 Sep 2017 06:07:35
Depends on what we achieve this season! Another season of excuses and he has s stellar year, his agent will round the big clubs! Bayern and Real serious contender!

26 Sep 2017 06:58:41
We are bringing his besti Naby next season so he will stay.

26 Sep 2017 08:41:35
Why can't you add your thoughts without a snide remark, Harry? Its a pity because it devalues some of the validity in your points.

25 Sep 2017 20:45:59
Question for any or all of the eds or other posters. Curious what people think of Liverpool/ Klopp's defensive frailty. I have heard various theories, poor goalkeeper, need new centre backs, lack of a true defensive mid, philosophy is too attacking etc.

I looked up Klopp's record at Dortmund and Liverpool. In terms of goals against at Dortmund his teams ranked 2nd best his first year, 9th his 2nd and from then on 1st (won Bundesliga), 3rd (won Bundesliga again), 4th, 2nd and fell to 7th his final year.

at Liverpool their record defensively is 9th best first year (couldn't break out just his games so it's a Rodgers/ Klopp combo), then 5th best last year and 16th this year albeit a short sample so far.

His drop to 7th, after a very strong defensive record in his last Dortmund year and his liverpool record so far might mean ed002 is correct I think I remember the quote Klopp was "figured out" (hoping not to put words in ed002's mouth) or something to that effect.

Or is he still the guy with a pretty good defensive record at dortmund and he just needs to keep building the team.

Just curious what people think.

25 Sep 2017 21:09:46
I think you've got far too much time on your hands.

25 Sep 2017 21:15:37
He is a very good manager who took us to 2 cup finals in his first season and achieved champions league qualification in his second season. Obviously the defence still needs some work but we will get there. Clearly some people think that 2 years is enough time for Klopp to turn a club that hasn't won the league in 26 years and finished in the top 4 twice in 7 years into world beaters.

25 Sep 2017 21:23:42
Redal,

you would be correct, but hey got to fill the day somehow.

26 Sep 2017 01:26:54
I think klopp will get us there. We have steadily improved under him but it will be very difficult to improve on last seasons 4th place finish this year. Our rivals look very strong and have strengthened their teams well in the summer. Teams like spurs and arsenal will always be a threat and have a chance of ucl qualification. Chelsea have a strong squad.

I think if we had of gotten VVD and keita this summer we would have a much stronger chance. It's going to be hard and if you offered me fourth now it would be very hard to turn down. There are promising signs though. Palace watford Burnley and Leicester are all games we could have lost last year and I thought we showed brilliant character on Saturday to hold on. Although what Shakespeare was doing subbing the two players who can create something for vardy and co to get on the end of, I don't know.

I like the way klopp has mixed it up this season where we are not playing the high press constantly. Some games we have sat back and still won well. We are a bigger threat with cout's playing and I'm looking forward to the return of Mane, lallana and even Clyne. Especially lallana. I think he could be our most underrated player atm. Amazing when he is on form. Another win tomorrow will do wonders for the boys confidence. Mane to score for me and perhaps a first goal for AOC.

26 Sep 2017 01:31:40
I think he's struggling to sort the defence out, but he is also capable of adapting (e. g. towards the end of last season where we were decent) so give him time. In the PL you face all sorts and he is still learning.

My own view on the defence is it's partly personnel but partly system too. In some games the high press is working, but it tends to be against the better sides IMO where possession is more evenly distributed and they play less long balls. His major problem tends to come when we have lots of possession, we have pushed both fullbacks forward in attack, and the midfield steps up to press in middle of the pitch, leaving the CBs exposed if the opposition can play between the lines.

Mix that with CBs that struggle with pace and a weak GK who doesn't like to sweep and we look exposed way too often. At Dortmund by contrast he played with a true CDM who can provide the cover whereas Hendo likes to step up into tackles, and Can is still learning the position (and can switch off and not track runners) . Oh and of course on set pieces where we are just poor.

I would personally like to see him play more of a deep 2 man midfield and a 4-2-3-1, I think Can and Hendo can play double pivot and sit slightly deeper to dictate play going forward and provide defensive cover when we lose possession, allowing the FBs to create push forward to create width, with Mane and Salah as the inverted wingers, Coutinho at no.10 and a CF.

Alternative is to play 4-3-3 but tell our FBs their key responsibility is defence and to sit a bit deeper, and play Can in a true DM role like he seemed to do in the first half against Leicester. That would also Hendo and Coutinho to run the middle of the park further forward and release the front three.

Either way would work IMO but the other thing we absolutely need to fix is set pieces where we don't seem to be brave enough or organized enough in defence. We need to harden up quick and clear the ball first time, we are bullied far too often.

25 Sep 2017 22:40:58
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the acquisition of Hummels a big factor in that? Perhaps VVD could've been our Hummels.
A lot has been made of our defensive frailties of late but I do believe if he's given time Klopp will get it right. He's shown in his short time with us that he won't waste money on players that don't fit. If the right type of player isn't available he will make do with what he has until the right player is available. It's frustrating but I think it will stand us in good stead in the long run.
He's taken chances on the likes of Klavan and Karius but each cost less than £5mil. The pacey, ball playing, strong, leader, organiser type defender we need will cost a hell of a lot more so he needs to get it right and those players are few and far between at the moment.
We don't want stop gaps we've had that for years. Klopp should be applauded for having the patience and ambition to aim for the best players he can. Yes he's gone about it the wrong way and overstepped the mark but it's in the interest of getting the very best players to our club. I for one can forgive him for that.

26 Sep 2017 13:00:54
Think Ed02 stated just the other day Hummels was already they're brought in by zorc for Thomas doll who was the manager at the time, I personally think klopps struggling with the defensive side of how he likes this team to play simply due to the extremely faster pace of premier league football but there is also some basic decision making errors by the players as well which is exacerbating the situation just my 2p's worth but it does make it an exciting team to watch, what was it involved in 34 goals last ten games lol, looking forward to tonight's game.

25 Sep 2017 18:35:02
message to klopp you don't have to keep explaining to the media the fact that karius is your champions league goalkeeper, in fact you don't have to say a word on the subject, I feel sorry for both karius and ward because it don't matter how well they play the are dumped for the next match, for a goalkeeper who is not fit for purpose, if this pattern carries on I predict that both karius and ward will look to leave as this situation is doing them no good at all, the day klopp bought karius he should have sold mignolet, what a mess this situation is and there is no need for it to be like this.

25 Sep 2017 19:59:07
Spot on, KK7. Klopp messed up the moment he gave Migs a 5 yr contract extension after another woeful season in 15/ 16. I said then that Klopp would regret it. He should have never given him a new contract and should have binned him and given Karius the shirt for the whole season. By now, we would have known if he was the solution or not. Now? We still don't know. People say Karius is crap. Really? The boy made two mistakes in 10 games and got binned not cos Klopp wanted to, but for fans who got on his back and hounded him off the team. Yet some think Migs who has been killing us for four years, made 5 mistakes in the last two games is better than Karius or even Ward who has shown that he is very talented. How in the heck is that even logical?

This farce of a GK situation is all Klopp's fault and Karius or Ward must be cutting themselves in the arm asking, "How in the hell is this guy benching me, for heaven's sake with all the errors he makes"? Klopp needs to end it now cos he will have a crisis of GK management on his hands as Migs will not stop making mistakes. That much we know.

25 Sep 2017 20:22:32
I seriously doubt any of our goalkeepers are self harming.
Drama queen stuff.

25 Sep 2017 20:26:01
Klopp loves Mignolet and everything is fair in love and war!

25 Sep 2017 20:45:22
I don't think Klopp reads this site. God I hope not anyway.

25 Sep 2017 21:44:30
Last season he put Karius in and he made a few mistakes, his nerves got the better of him and Klopp eventually had to take him out for his own good. Karius just didn't react well to being thrown in at the deep end. Mignolet reacted well and so stayed in for the rest of the season.

This season he is putting Karius in bit by bit to build his confidence. He signed him to be his number 1 and I still think that is his plan. He will be fully no.1 before too long.

25 Sep 2017 21:45:21
he should do, he might learn something.

25 Sep 2017 22:31:22
Karius is a bag of nerves. Migs albeit average, is 10x better than Karius.

25 Sep 2017 22:51:36
You really think the idiots on this site can teach Klopp anything about football. I include myself in that too by the way! None of us know what's being said and done behind the scenes in this or any other situation at the club so how can we possibly think we know better. That's without the fact that none of us manage elite level players for a living when Klopp has for the last 16 years.
This site is great for airing views and healthy (sometimes) debate about the game and team we all love but let's not kid ourselves that we are better equipped to manage the players than the man who sees, trains and talks to them every day.

25 Sep 2017 22:55:14
Fowler, Migs 10 times better than Karius? Are you smoking too much that Emirates stuff?

25 Sep 2017 22:57:19
"he should do, he might learn something"

Genuinely made me laugh out loud 😆.

26 Sep 2017 01:58:05
Well said Ings and things. ne'er a truer word.

26 Sep 2017 03:05:46
I have to agree with ings! It seems many people have chosen the wrong career path instead of being a coach.

26 Sep 2017 07:32:01
Ward better than both and should be given a run in the first team.

26 Sep 2017 09:54:06
ings, you don't need to be a expert or have qualifications to know the defence is awful, just a decent pair of eyes, klopp needs to take advice and seek help in sorting this situation out.

25 Sep 2017 13:17:09
I want to address the elephant in the room, in this case it’s the bulletproof vest that Klopp wears. Two years after he first arrived Klopp is still largely untouchable, amongst Liverpool fans at least. The defence isn’t his fault because, don’t forget, he did at least try and sign a defender; it’s not Klopp’s fault that he’s picking Migs, it’s because the media and those nasty fans are forcing him to do it; fail to win in four games, it’s because the players are letting Klopp down. Fundamentally team performance is the responsibility of the manager, if the team is underperforming then the manager is, as a minimum, partially at fault. So why does Klopp escape criticism? let's talk about that.

When we break down Klopp’s performance there are a number of things worthy of criticism. He’s got a poor record promoting youth, he’s fundamentally failed to address our defensive problems, his overall record is nothing to boast about and yet he is still adored. However, this post is not about criticising Klopp, we’re actually well placed to challenge for the title soon, maybe even this season. This post is about why fans afford Klopp a benefit of the doubt no other manager (with the exception of Dalglish) would receive.

Klopp was preceded by the most unpopular manager in Liverpool history, I won’t go into whether that was fair or not (Rodger’s Liverpool never performed as poorly as his predecessor’s for example) but his unpopularity is unquestionable. Klopp is everything Rodgers was not, he’s charismatic, passionate and 100% box office. Couple this with an excellent reputation from Germany and he was every Liverpool fans’ dream. After the disappointment of Rodgers final year Klopp was the messiah and we went head over heals emotionally investing in his potential success. This is the first part of why Klopp is given free ride, to admit his faults is to admit we were wrong to idolise him back at the start.

The second part is that Klopp is a bit of a tease, every time we start to doubt him he pulls out a performance which shows just how good Liverpool can be under his guidance, the most recent being the Arsenal game. These performances give us an excuse to discount the bad performances as aberrations that Klopp can’t possibly be responsible for, instead it’s because our players lack motivation against the lower teams (surely it’s Klopp’s job to ensure the players are in the right mind-set for every game? ), there’s a lack of leadership (isn’t Klopp supposed to be a leader? ) or the players are making mistakes (these are same players that Klopp has not replaced and routinely picks week in, week out) .

This is not a Klopp out post, I’m still more than happy he’s the manager, he’s transformed the atmosphere at the club, he’s got the best out of players that were previously considered deficient and, my god, when he gets it right we’re out of this world. This is more that our frustrations need to be channelled more healthily. With few exceptions, the squad has received excessive criticism this season, some of it toxic. A proportion of this criticism comes from dissatisfaction with team performance, this is Klopp’s responsibility. Let’s stop unloading on players for Klopp’s deficiencies, Klopp’s a big boy, he can take the pressure. Klopp has idol status which he hasn’t earned, a bit of humility might actually do him good.

25 Sep 2017 13:57:57
There's no way he has a bulletproof vest. Most of us can see his failings as coach/ manager, we just don't need to act like it's the end of the world when it isn't going to plan.

The dramatic over the top reactions to a couple of draws make for some difficult reading. Yes the defence isn't up to the standard we all want and yes Klopp is to blame for that but moaning and calling for Klopp out (which is certainly limited to a smaller percentage of the fan base) is nonsense.

We know from ed01 that Klopp knows we have problems at CB and GK and hopefully he will rectify them asap when the transfer windows roll around.

I think saying he is untouchable and bulletproof only applies to a tiny minority but that's expected when you have fandom and bias. We're a cracking team when we are on and frustratingly bad when not on and that's down to JK and I think most people see that.

25 Sep 2017 14:01:03
Contructive Criticism :)

25 Sep 2017 14:03:25
For me, you can pull out all the statistics, win percentages, goals conceded etc and it ultimately means nothing.

Klopp took a faltering team that looked liked slipping away into mid table mediocrity under Rodgers, and then took us to two cup finals in his first season. Something that hadn't happened at all under Rodgers. In his second season he got us back into the Champions league and before we lost our Mane man (excuse the pun) we were in a title challenge.

Now we are in his third season and if we are honest the only way to progress on last season is to win something or at least have a proper title challenge. If we just finish top 4 again though then at least we're not going backwards.

You can't judge Klopp against different managers stats. What Rodgers stats won't show you is that he had 5 arguably world class players when he took over in Reina, Carragher, Agger, Gerrard and Suarez. When he left we had arguably 1 left in Coutinho.

What Rodgers did, was progressively take us backwards from a cup winning team with a handful of top players on the up under Dalglish, to being mid table whipping boys. A 14 game winning run which ultimately was an anomaly in Rodgers tenure doesn't change that.

Klopp by contrast has gradually taken us forward. You can argue that Coutinho, Keita, Salah and Mane are world class. So Klopp is slowly building a team of top players again. Unlike his predecessor who sold top players and replaced them with average players.

I don't really care if Mane, Salah etc were Klopps choices. All i care about is the fact that Klopp is getting the best out of them. Another thing that Rodgers rarely managed.

Win percentages are irrelevant. Rodgers was competing for most of his time here against Harry Redknapps Spurs, Leicester were in the Championship, David Moyes's and LVG's United, Martinez's Everton, Chelsea were yo yo-ing in and out of mid table and Arsenal were still just also rans. The only consistently good team he faved was Man City. Not to mention that this was before TV money had the likes of Stoke and Palace paying £30m for individual players. The league is massively more competitive now and Klopp still has us competing more consistently than Rodgers.

Ultimately Putney, Klopp has made mistakes. The goal keeper situation is a shambles, and our centre back options are just not good enough. His tapping up saga of the summer was also embarrassing and Klopp did lose both finals and a semi final despite getting there. So it isn't all rosey. However, we are moving forward very clearly for anyone with the perspective to take a step back and as you say, we will start competing for titles again at this rate.

Klopp is not immune to criticism. There are just a lot of people backing him and willing to defend him from unjust criticism. He's been here just 2 years as of gameweek 8 this season. Look at how poor we were back then, to how scintillating we are now. That is all the evidence i need. By the start of next season he will have been here just about 3 years and for me, that is when all excuses dry up. You can't have 3 summer transfer windows and still be claiming the players weren't available. I still think we can challenge this year. But Klopp gave himself 4 years to win a league title, so hopefully he keeps that promise.

25 Sep 2017 13:50:51
sorry puteny i agree with all here the goalkeeper and defence need sorted, but im sick and tired of hearing about rodgers liverpool.
LOOK mate you can't compare the two sides rodgers side had two of the so called world class players, suarez and gerrard, this side does not it has potential world class stars but they are not world class yet and that 13/ 14 season was the season of suarez he carried that team on his soldiers he gave sturridge his best goal scoring season he ever had because people where that afraid of him.
For my thinking klopp does not have a bullet proof vest there is enough of ex players and fans out there calling for his head and criticising him more than they criticised roy hodgson probably the worst i've seen in my 44 years imo.
Now ill always support players managers of liverpool don't like criticising them and imo klopp knows his problems he admits them and i think all the changes he is making with the defence is because he is not happy and as always happens people are not performing how they train and he is still seeking the solution until he can get the players he wants in.

25 Sep 2017 14:30:08
Carrager agger and reina were never world class and mane and salah are not world class and not by a long way. Very good players but a long way from being woeld class.

25 Sep 2017 14:27:23
I understand that the manager takes some stick when the team don't win but I wouldn't say they haven't performed in those four games. We created the chances. It isn't an elephant in the room Putney because everyday for the last two weeks klopp has been getting stick on here. This is just needlessly stirring the pot again even though we won. Klopp comes across as a really nice guy when talking to the media and people find it hard to dislike him, even the vampires that are the British press! He has also achieved in his career so is given the due respect. I love this site and when liverpool were doing well this season it was a great place to come and chat about LFC. Liverpool haven't played that great in the last five games (not that bad either) and this site has become quite venomous. The three day debate about liverpool needing new attackers epitomises the rubbish that a lot of so called fans talk.

{Ed002's Note - You are still struggling to see beyond your rose tinted spectacles and your obsession with Klopp being "world class" - he isn't. Yes, quite a few years ago Klopp had a little success - and that is it. Nothing more.}

25 Sep 2017 14:52:10
Reina, Carragher and Agger were world class, and could argue Salah is now? Come on MK. Go get some sleep mate.

25 Sep 2017 14:59:41
Yes ed, he has done what very few managers have done and won the league. I didn't say he was world class but now you mention it, I think he is mate. It is nothing to do with red tinted glasses ed mate, we have created the chances in the games we didn't win. You cannot blame klopp for not tucking them away. If we scored even just a third of the chances we create we would be winning each game 7 2 at least. You have to admit ed02 that klopp's record against the top six teams is very very good, exemplary apart from the city match. He is working on a limited budget and therefore has had to take a punt on klavan karius etc but has also found bargains like matip and Robertson. He qualified for ucl with the thinnest squad out of the top six. Finished loads of points above utd who spent hundreds of millions last year. You make out that winning the league is nothing to shout about. I don't know all the ins and outs ed dude, all I can go on is what I see and I see us playing some of the best football I have seen from my team in a long long time. And let's not forget, dortmund winning the German league back then would be similar to someone like Aberdeen winning the Scottish prem and breaking the monopoly that Munich or celtic had on their respective leagues. Credit where it's due.

{Ed002's Note - He is far, far from world class. I am not sure of the relevance of games against the top six, but it is rather more than that which determines success. How is his record against Rodgers? He is not working on a "limited budget" - he is simply not good enough. I have no idea what you mean by "thinnest squad". I am not sure where I have said that "winning the league is nothing to shout about". As I said Klopp is not "world class", a decent manager - but that is it. The man has been acting like a clown. He is a liar and his attempts at cheating failed - leaving him subject to ridicule by at least those members of the press close to Liverpool that he briefed back in April. He has achieved nothing for years - except to excel at unprofessionalism and embarrassing Liverpool Football Club.}

25 Sep 2017 15:01:38
Klopps success at Dortmund was not fluke. He built a team around a very strong spine of Weidenfeller, Hummels, Subotic Bender and Gundogan.
Unfortunately, he seems to think that his current crop of LFC goalkeepers and defenders especially the CBs are better than they actually are.
I do think he's now realised this after this season's poor defensive start and it will be addressed in the next couple of transfer windows.
The attacking pieces of the jigsaw are in place - now for the defensive pieces to come in.
Many will say that you build a team around the defence but I do genuinely think that Klopp has held the belief that the current defence is good enough when we can clearly see form the outside that it is not.

{Ed002's Note - And he should have the Mane and Coutinho money to spend on sorting the defence out.}

25 Sep 2017 15:02:23
Whichever way you look at it klopp was the manager who signed mane salah and wijnaldum. If he isn't getting the credit for that then you can't point at klavan caulker and karius and say klopp dropped the ball there.

{Ed002's Note - You really don't get it do you?}

25 Sep 2017 15:04:07
Very funny to see regular posters using Rodgers to make Klopp look good.

Come on guys. why can't we move on?

Do we still need to berate Rodgers to make Klopp look good?

Lets focus or refocus here to talk about Klopp and provide his plus and minus and not go back to Rodgers again and again.

Cheers.

25 Sep 2017 15:07:48
Ken, that's nothing more than a more attempt to change the subject.

My point is clear. Rodgers started off with a good foundation and left a poor foundation. Klopp started off with a poor foundation and if he was sacked tomorrow any new coach would have a good foundation.

For me, the measure of a good manager is leaving a club in a better position than you found it in.

It really is irrelevant what you define as world class or not. Though i completely respect your right to disagree which is why i very intentionally used the phrase "arguably world class". I did not once state my opinion as a forgone conclusion, specifically because i know how much peoples opinions vary on what constitutes being a world class player.

25 Sep 2017 15:07:49
For me His failings are, his transfer windows. Terrible.
And the whole too late substitution thing.
Sort them out and trophies will follow.

25 Sep 2017 15:14:54
I agree mk. Carra reina and agger were world class at their peak. Especially reina. Salah will get there imo. Mane coutinio and firmino are all either world class or on the way to becoming world class. I understand my opinion on this is not taken seriously but ce la vie.

25 Sep 2017 15:18:33
Supporters in general are too quick to praise or criticise.

After a win we have world class players and after a loss we are terrible and the whole lot needs changing.

Once we have some more perspective we should get a more balanced view.

Personally think our defence is substandard but I appreciate the difficulties in getting in the right personnel.

I would be delighted to see Karius or award given an extend d run.

I still think Klopp is the best coach we could have and he gets much mor right than he gets wrong.

25 Sep 2017 15:24:33
superred whatever he has achieved is long time back. Kloop can't even get his basic right. he is still trying to fit square pegs in round holes just like Br.

25 Sep 2017 15:31:52
Of course he has a limited budget compared to our rivals. City chelsea and utd. Even arsenal. We are more in the spurs bracket when it comes to money. That is not a rash claim, it's bleeding obvious. We don't have as much money as those four and can't compare with the wages they offer.

What is it I don't get ed? Sorry if I'm being dense, perhaps you can enlighten me? Either klopp gets the credit for signing mane and salah etc and the blame for signing klavan caulker etc or he doesn't get the credit for signing mane etc and doesn't take the blame for signing klavan etc. It can't be both can it?

Surely his record against the top six is of some relevance. He has lost once in 13/ 14 games against Jose conte guardiola etc that is not a fluke, that is a very classy record.

{Ed002's Note - Well the first thing you don't get is the money. Klopp has not been working to a limited budget - he has chosen how to spend the money (unwisely in many cases) - and the comparisons to other sides is absolutely pointless.

The second thing you don't get is that Klopp takes credit that he identified the likes of Klaven, Caulker, Matip and Karius. Mane can be credited as one of Sven Mislintat's findings that Klopp returned to after moving to Liverpool. Salah was third choice and identified by the Liverpool scouting team because Klopp was unable to persuade (after an illegal approach) his first choice to make the move. The record is of no relevance - where sides end up and what they achieve is what will be remembered.}

25 Sep 2017 15:42:36
Really didn't want to get sucked into a debate on those players, Stand.

My definition of world class is being in the top 10 at what you do in the world. Agree or disagree, but that is how i quantify it. It's a subjective term, so get over it.

Reina, love him or hate him was easily in the top 10 keepers in the world for me. Even 5 years on he is still playing for title challenging sides in top flights across Europe.

Agger, about when Rodgers joined rejected an offer from Barcelona. He was probably one of the best ball playing centre backs in world football, despite his injury troubles. I personally don't think there was anyone better when he was fit. Just a shame that was only 20 games a season.

Carragher was a leader. A defensive organiser. In my opinion, he was still in the top 5 at what he did in the world the day he retired and i wish he'd given us one more season. He was right up there with Puyol, Terry and co at what he did. You only need to look at how our defence capitulated without him to see how good he was. He was a dying breed of player.

Gerrard, I'm not even going to reply to. Really?

Suarez is still in the top 5 players in the world, period. Forget at what he does, he is up there with Ronaldo and Messi at times.

Salah and Mane as far as goal scoring wide forwards come, are both right up there. They are the best in the Premier League for me alongside Sanchez and Hazard. Nobody else gets near those 4 in my opinion. Both our wide men are good for 15 goals a season historically, and I'll bet they hit over 20 each this year in all competitions. In fact Mane is probably in the top 5 players in the whole Prem. Aside from Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Aubameyang, Lewandiwski or Griezmann I'm not swapping either of them for anyone else in the game.

Coutinho? Really? We just turned down a £120m + bid for him. If he isn't world class then Man Utd don't have a world class player because he'd walk into your team with a broken leg.

As for Keita, people are calling him the best player in Germany at 22 years old so if you want to debate whether he is world class go ahead. From what i have seen he easily goes into the top 10 box to box players in the world, so that makes him world class with my criteria.

Therefore i would say all those players are ARGUABLY world class. Because i just made a realistic argument for them, whether you agree or not. You are entitled to disagree, but why not grow up and have a debate instead of just trying to wind me up with insulting replies?

If your definition of world class is limited to literally just Messi and Ronaldo, that is totally fine. But why not just humbly disagree and explain why, instead of being a troll.

25 Sep 2017 15:52:21
I'll wager, there's not a set of fans in the Premiere League who wouldn't want Jurgen Klopp as their Manager.
We're so lucky, and honoured to have him.
Long many he remain at LFC.

{Ed002's Note - You are joking I assume. With his track record I am sure the other fans hope he stays at Liverpool a long time as well.}

25 Sep 2017 16:02:29
Ok cheers for clearing that up. I guess ultimately he has the final say on transfers though doesn't he? . Personally I think his attacking signings have been very good and his defencive ones have been pretty poor. One week I think matip is the worst defender we have had for a long time then the next week he looks like one of the best we have had for a long time. Consistency.

I think how much we have spent compared to chelski city utd is relevant when we are comparing liverpool to those teams. If you are not sure what I mean about lfc qualifying for ucl with a thin squad then look at our bench last season.

Klopp HAS given youngsters their chance of course. Look at taa and gomes who are becoming regulars and woodburn.

World class is a hard term to define and I have taken stick for how low I set the bar for that term. Fair enough. I saw someone saying the top 22 players in the world (I think that is a little too elitist but) klopp must be in the top 22 managers in the world surely?

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool are not going to buy a player that Klopp does not want. It could potentially be that a player could be sold regardless of what he wants - particularly if the player really wants out. This is a matter for the club but I am aware of two recent approaches that have been made about transfers directly to FSG as the clubs in question did not want to deal with LFC itself.

Previously you were speaking about Klopp was working on a limited budget and now you want to compare expenditure. It is not relevant.

Liverpool used 23 different players in the Premier League last season and Chelsea used 24 - it is hardly much different.

I am not sure that I had said anything about Klopp and youngsters.

There are a handful of "world class" managers and that is generally determined by success at the highest level. Whatever way you look at it, even with 22 managers Klopp would likely not feature right now.}

25 Sep 2017 16:13:45
He's a good coach and I'm happy he is here but he certainly isn't bullet proof - he clearly gets criticism for his lack of sorting the defence and if it continues it'll eventually be his downfall just like any other coach.

Bottom line is we are in CL and playing better football than we were before he arrived, with potential to get much better. It's not making him bullet proof to give him the chance to see if he can continue to improve the team from here. bottom line is clubs rotate their coaches way too often IMO and I suspect given time Klopp will learn and figure things out with time.

We don't need any Klopp out rubbish every time there are a couple of defeats.

25 Sep 2017 16:23:24
Klopp is a good manager, yes we have an awesome attack and he deserves a lot of credit for that, however, we have an awful defense and poor goal keepers so he also must accept the blame for that. He has had more than enough windows to improve the defense and plenty of money made available but he hasn't made the improvements which must be seen as a huge flaw.
Yes he got us to two finals but lost both, a great start to last season but then an al, out disastrous capitulation and we just scrapped into 4th.
The concern is with the shocking start this season, no window open, will he be grace enough or clever enough to change he tactics to try and offer more support to a "shot to pieces" defense, if he doesn't we will concede a lot more goals hoping that the attack can get 3 or 4 every game to make up for the defensive frailties.
Jose (who I really don't like ) has shown he's a world class manager. He's inherited a very poor Utd team and won two cups last season playing the football he needed to play "to get results". He looked at the problems in his squad and has done a good job buying in the quality the club needed. With the exception of Pogmas fee the other players are all well within our budget.
Nobody remembers the great games or attacking football teams played they remember who won the cups and titles, winning ugly gets you 3 points, the same as winning with flair.

25 Sep 2017 15:57:00
Ed1, idea for a future podcast, me versus MK on Rodgers' legacy.

{Ed001's Note - I can't imagine anything I would less rather hear about. More excuses for his failings. Yawn.}

25 Sep 2017 16:46:56
I'd rather not debate about Rodgers either. I've only even referenced him in my reply because you brought him up Putney.

Although fair play to him, as his comments regarding Klopp this morning were very professional and kind.

25 Sep 2017 17:05:06
It pains me to say but some reds fans are so fickle and naive it's unbelievable. Got to trust in Klopp as I think he will get it right in the next year or two. Imagine we didn't have Klopp, wouldn't be as good as we are now.

25 Sep 2017 16:55:38
Sorry ed02 I wasn't aiming the youngsters quote at you mate, it was the original post I think that said youngsters don't get a chance under klopp.

I know the squad numbers isn't that different dude but the quality in the fringes of the squad last year was nowhere near as strong as chelsea.

I agree the tapping up thing was embarrassing but more than that, it cost us possibly the most important player of the window in VVD. I doubt we are the only team that is guilty of it although I am aware that is no excuse. I didn't start this thread to say klopp is world class, I responded as I don't think he deserves to be shot down every day. World class or not he is a very good manager and we play some really nice football under him. I think we will see the best of klopp's liverpool when we have keita and Vvd. I would add a top GK to that and then expect us to seriously challenge on all fronts.

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool are far from the only team that gets involved in tapping up but Klopp has taken it to new extremes costing the club reputation, money and a great deal of embarrassment. A complaint still sits on file with the Premier League in addition to the letters written by other sides to Liverpool (three at least in the past 14 months). I have explained all of this before. You are correct that Liverpool are playing well from an attacking perspective. The jury remains out on Keita somewhat but I would not hold your breath for van Dijk. The club formally withdrew all interest in him.}

25 Sep 2017 17:26:54
Top manager, perfect for us wer lucky to have him. If only he was better in the transfer seen as he's never actually bought a decent player HIMSELF while buying a load of donkeys for LFC so far. He insists on not giving youth a try and keeps being the only manager who's a bit dodgy regarding transfers. I think he needs to get a grip, he's only had a LITTLE success! 😉😉😉.

25 Sep 2017 17:51:48
I thought the owners would go for Carlo ancelotti but then they signed klopp.

{Ed002's Note - That was because of what Klopp told them.}

25 Sep 2017 17:53:45
Oh Ed1, you're just scared I'd blow your mind and make you doubt everything you believe in ;-)

MK, I didn't mention Rodgers to compare his record to Klopp's, like you I think it's a pointless exercise. I was making the point that, after Rodgers, fans were so grateful for Klopp that they lost their sense of perspective.

P. S. For the record, where your analysis on Rodgers goes wrong is that you think he took over a decent squad. Everything changes when you understand that it was anything but ;)

{Ed001's Note - mind? No one has ever accused me of having one of them before!}

25 Sep 2017 18:16:43
Back to the original post : Roy Hodgson was the most unpopular manager in Liverpools history, not Brendan.

Klopp inherited a side that had little attacking intent and very poor organisation and team spirit. He transformed that team in no time. He had a choice when he arrived. Focus on the rubbish defence or the rubbish attack. He's not a miracle worker, he's a good hard working manager, so he had to choose. He chose well. You can't win games if you're not scoring goals and you can't get the fans on side and excited if you aren't attacking.
I think we can safely say, Liverpool is one of the most attacking and entertaining teams in the league again. You could not say this during Rodgers last season.

Now Klopp has to sort the defence out without jeopardising his attacking. It won't take much, it'll be a slight tweak, maybe one signing, but it also won't be instantaneous. That's the thing about change, you can take a sledge hammer to crack a walnut and cause collateral damage, or you can look for gradual incremental improvement.

We will be awful at defending for the next 10 games plus.
Better just accept that and get over it. The changes will be subtle.

25 Sep 2017 18:07:32
Interesting questions for ed002. Can klopp eventually become world class? Also do you consider any manager in the premier league world class right now?

{Ed002's Note - I would personally ignore the concept of "world class" - there are those out there who "rank" managers and if you look at the "world rankings" no doubt Klopp will be there somewhere in the 30s or 40s.

If you look at the latest FIFA awards for coaches the three finalists were Zidane (1), Conte (2) and Allegri (3) with the unranked contenders (the shortlist if you will) - in alphabetical order: Ancelotti, Enrique, Guardiola, Jardim. Loew, Mourinho, Pochettino, Simeone and Tite.

Klopp was in the list five seasons ago when at Dortmund. If he starts winning things then he can get back in to this list.}

25 Sep 2017 18:26:34
a very good post Ron, however that means our goal difference will either be +1 or minus and also the stress levels will go through the roof.

25 Sep 2017 18:55:06
I try not to pay too much attention to those FIFA awards but I would argue that Jardim achieved more than Conte in 2017.
Klopp made the 10 man shortlist in 2016.

25 Sep 2017 18:58:00
I have to say I ageee with eds 2, klopp is a nice guy but his record at Liverpool isn't that great. I don't want him out but at the same time I'm realistic. He's not really cutting the mustard and seems to struggle to learn from his mistakes. Didn't Carlo say we needed to spend loads of money etc and klopp said he could win things with the current squad eds? I want to give him time but he MUST deal with the defence and goal keeper as a matter of urgency or risk losing his job. Fingers crossed he deals with it. Cheers.

{Ed002's Note - Yes that is what CA and JK told the club when discussing the role. But for CA it was not so much an interview as a fishing trip to test the waters.

In simple terms Klopp needs to bring in the expertise to improve the defensive players and get them working as a cohesive unit. Klopp doesn't see that - but the club needs to take matters in to their own hands here and force it. They also need to make provision for moving players on who don't want to be at the club.}

25 Sep 2017 19:17:42
good answer ed. Its good to know your opinion isn't set in stone even though that is what you lead fans to believe regarding klopp. Since managers rank can change on a season basis, as a fan I believe klopp is on his way to being top class with each season and that's enough for fans to believe he is world class. we should really only judge a manager once his reign is over at a club.

At the richer clubs, klopp would have been sacked by now but at liverpool the owners are more patient as they're not expecting instant sucsess. This was always going to be a slow building process for liverpool and for once it seems we have the right manager to do it.

{Ed002's Note - The owners are expecting success - they have thrown enormous amounts of money at a club that is not winning things. Klopp isn't there to screw around for a few years and then move on - he is there to win - as he promised.}

25 Sep 2017 19:28:23
It unbelievable this whilst a no its a banter page and everybody wants to express there views a find it hard to take in that 2 and a half years after he left people are still talking or comparing brendan why?
Rodgers is in the past, so should be forgotting as he never really achieved anything at the club.
Klopp well let's just say ed02 is right he isn't proving to be world class, altho its still early in his career here and things can change! Has he inproved us yes, are we looking more capable of winning trophies since he took over yes, but he certainly is NOT world class. And comparing him with rodgers is just plain daft seen as both have never achieved anything at our great club.
My opinion is I believe klopp can go on to prove himself here but he has already failed in promises he has made to the owners and dealings in transfers.
Now i ain't one for criticising players, managers or owners. So i truly hope in a year or twos time that am coming on here over joyed with what klopp has achieved, but for now am with ed02 while he is a decent manager he has a lot to prove before we can put him in the bracket of world class managers. Only time will tell but please stop this comparing klopp with rodgers.

25 Sep 2017 19:48:52
So what is the criteria for being a world class manager? Is it winning trophies? Neither Guardiola or Pochettino have won anything with their current clubs so I guess they are not world class. Is it making the 10 man FIFA shortlist? Klopp was on that list 12 months ago, so I was he was world class then but not now? Or is it simply something that cannot be measured and it's up to each individual to decide for themselves who is world class and who is not? I'm going for the third option.

25 Sep 2017 20:03:26
See the Manc is back on our page trying tout stirr it up. Where was he last year.

25 Sep 2017 20:18:00
H8utd let it go pal hopfully at end of season we will have the last laugh pal, there's never a truer saying than he who laughs last laughs longest.

25 Sep 2017 20:35:14
Happiness is watching Ed02 taking the center stage ☺️☺️☺️. He blows the good old super aliens back to school days. what a sight 😎😎🤦‍♂️.

25 Sep 2017 22:00:51
PR great post, as Ed2 alluded there are lemmings on here that would happily follow Klopp over a cliff. I would like to ask those deciples whether they will be cursing Klopp and jumping on the bandwagon in 6-12 months time when those of us who can see the obvious are left wondering why it took so long for the owner to figure it out.
Klopp will not deliver what he promised, "titles" after 3 years because he does not learn from his mistakes and will not change or adapt as required.
The fact that Mignolet, Moreno, Klavan and Loveren are still being selected tells you all you need to know, anyone making excuses for those selections is delusio.
Liverpool fans of a certain age cannot have the wool pulled over their eyes simply because we know what world class is, we've seen it in the flesh. It may sound condescending to the younger generation but it's simply experience of what is right and what is not working, I suspect Stand-United may be a similar vintage MU supporter as he tells it how it is and doesn't try to BS, if I'm correct then he will have experienced what we are going through now. Show me a supporter of any club that would take Klopp over Mourinho and I'll show you a supporter who is happy with 1 good performance in every 3 games and a rollercoaster ride over winning titles and trophies year on year. Queue the rose tinted goggle abuse, I don't care, the evidence is clear and not one supporter can honestly say we will contend this season.

25 Sep 2017 22:51:24
Back to PutneyRed's original post.

How did you address the elephant in the room?

Did you say "hello Mr Jumbo"?

25 Sep 2017 22:58:38
Show some respect for your dad mate 🙄.

25 Sep 2017 23:14:44
Nice one Ron
R. E. S. P. E. C. T find out what it means to me 😝.

25 Sep 2017 11:02:03
I sent in a post last week about "pundits" but it wasn't published. I think that I forgot to mention Garth Crook who is probably the worst of the lot. In his team of the week today he has Mignolet in goal and made the comment that Liverpool didn't deserve to win. He is wrong on both counts. Another thing I spotted in the match was that there was no comment about the free-kick leading up to the first goal and a booking for Matip. Vardy hooked his foot around Matip and then fell. This constitutes a dive and both decisions regarding the free-kick should have been reversed. But Vardy is one of the players who gets away with things. In my opinion he is just a face looking for a slap!

25 Sep 2017 11:29:01
I'm so mad at Mignolet for not cleaning Vardy out on that Penalty decision. If he wants to kick that, he should've put the ball into Row Z, and Vardy into the floor. Grobelaar would have gone in face first, held the ball, and still broken the attackers knees.

Vardy was playing dirty games all day, and Mignolet had a chance at check mate, but bottled it.

Disgusting though when you think that 3 of our defenders got booked. Matip for getting kicked for a blatant dive, Lovren for getting hip thrown at a corner, and Gomez for getting elbowed in the face! Meanwhile Vardy got away with countless late tackles, dives, at least 2 counts of dangerous play, and deliberately bashing into Moreno off the ball after leaving studs on him! Vardy is lucky Moreno is made of tougher stuff than most, because if he'd gone down holding his face, it could've been different.

I second what Ron said. I hope Leicester go down and take Vardy with them.

25 Sep 2017 11:32:34
Couldn't agree more, Ben. Don't know Crooks that much but if he indeed said what you say he said, then I'm okay not knowing who he is as his love in for Mings is creepy and saying that we did not deserve the win after dominating scoring three goals on the road, is just bizarre.

I do agree that Vardy is just DF. The dive he did to draw the foul on Matip is the same type dive he did multiple times when LC won the title to get penalties and the only ref he did not fool was John Moss vs WH who saw throuh his crap an booked him a second time hence, sending him off.

Also, his two late challenges on Moreno should have been enough for two bookings and a red already BUT we all know how crap Taylor was so no point talking too much about that.

25 Sep 2017 11:36:36
Matip would never ever beat vardy on pace! If not that incident he was always going to get a penalty

Remember Sturridge dive against UTD to get vidic sent off😄😄. Those biased rose tinted glass. Move on mate. We won and who cares about rest!

25 Sep 2017 11:48:27
Good stuff harry, should rename yourself the contrarian.

Taylor had an absolute mare but I'm sure we'll get a game where most of the calls go our way. Swings and roundabouts lads.

25 Sep 2017 11:49:17
Harry you just be a United fan to remember something like that! Vidic hasn't played at United for years and i don't ever remember Sturridge diving. I remember a debate about it once when his trailing heel was clearly clipped, and all the sofa experts who have never been able to run quicker than 5mph lost their minds due to a complete lack of understanding about how easy it is to be tripped at speed. But that is about it.

Suarez certainly did dive though, and we all lambasted him for it as he constantly embarrassed the club. So why should we let Vardy off for embarrassing Leicester? They want to improve their status in European football, yet they continue to sign brutes, and employ violent and barbaric tactics. It's no wonder players like Mahrez and Kante want to leave. They're just a bunch of thugs.

25 Sep 2017 12:45:29
Thing is, pundits are entitled to their opinion and lots of times it's framed to be more controversial so it creates debate.
It would be easy to have De Gea in goal every week, but they have to keep themselves (mildly) interesting.

25 Sep 2017 13:15:04
Crooks fails to make himself interesting each and every week Ron, he's a total embarrassment.

25 Sep 2017 14:14:31
Ron he could've picked Lossl? He kept a clean sheet and made a few saves. Mignolet made a couple of easy saves but gave away stupid corners trying to make them camera worthy, gifted the opposition 2 goals, gave away a penalty which i could've saved etc. The only thing which was unusually above average about his performance was his kicking. Aside from that it was the worst goal keeping performance I've seen since god knows when. Oh yeah, since Mignolet played against Man City!

Crooks has clearly just heard Mignolet saved a penalty to keep it at 2-3 and put him in just because of that.

25 Sep 2017 14:17:42
Diving, whether people like it or not, remains part of the game. the way vardy throws himself around to leave something on a player and attempt to con the officials is what irritates me personally.

25 Sep 2017 13:54:19
sorry ron i don't think most pundits do have an opinion of their own i think they tread the company line just like when the controversy with neville and arsenaltv his answer was my bosses sky are loving me now there name is all over the place.

25 Sep 2017 20:09:19
Ron you do know that Sly pundits are given a script on what they should say about what team, manager or player, right? So NO, pundits do not have an opinion for the most part as they say some of the dumbest things that beggar belief. Ron, you would make a brilliant pundit except you are given a script of what narrative to peddle and then, you would be just like them at Sky, at least.

26 Sep 2017 15:41:38
Ok so the BBC want Mignolet in goal.

I really can't see what the BBC's agenda is with our goalkeeping situation. 😄.

25 Sep 2017 08:08:49
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new player profile about, Joel Matip

25 Sep 2017 08:33:47
Good write up Ed.

{Ed001's Note - thank you Lj.}

25 Sep 2017 08:50:08
A good brief Ed01.

Jurgen Klopp moved to sign Joel Matip on a free transfer after taking the time to look over his defensive options at Liverpool!

Oh yes and he decided it bring in someone who is slower than a tortoise to play in high line defensive system and he followed up with another master stroke by signing Klavan who is slower than rotation of Earth! 😎😎😎.

25 Sep 2017 09:03:01
Another quality write up ed. good stuff mate

Harry, ever thought of coaching professionally? Such a mind is wasted only posting on these pages 😂.

{Ed001's Note - thanks RB and Harry too.}

25 Sep 2017 09:09:52
Good review Ed.

Harry just to let you know mate the earth rotates at about 900-1000mph.

I mean Klavan get's very fairly criticised on here, but i think you're setting the bar a bit high there. Usain Bolt can't even get to 5% of that speed!

{Ed001's Note - thank you MKS.}

25 Sep 2017 09:20:16
Neatly written Ed001. The worrying part is that Klopp's primary target to partner Matip seems to have the same attributes of being very good on the ball but strolling around when it comes to defending. The only thing VVD has got on Matip is his physical prowess onset pieces. We are going to need one heck of a CDm if VVD and Matip are our Cbs next season.

{Ed001's Note - thank you IB. VVD has more pace and strength as well. He may not be any more aware, but he reacts to danger much more quickly and covers the ground much quicker, plus he doesn't get physically bullied like Matip can. Far from ideal, but he is a major step up from Matip.}

25 Sep 2017 10:40:41
A good write up but I also think you've been a bit harsh on Matip at times. I agree players ghosting off his shoulder has been an issue at times but I wouldn't say any more so than any other CB. it's the strikers job to do this and no CB in any team is perfect at stopping this, Matip could do with being a bit more alert though.

What does concern me a bit is his pace when getting back, agree he looks like he's lacking a yard or two but then again he does also seem much better at dealing with pace than Klavan and Lovren, he stands players up much better in one-on-ones rather than diving in, so it's not that often he gets rounded IMO.

I still think he has plenty of potential, and part of fixing the problem is having a decent partner to help provide support in a crisis, and a proper deep midfielder to provide real cover, and I personally would like to see a very slightly deeper line and playing more through the midfield to prevent our defence from getting so exposed at times.

{Ed001's Note - he is the one who is stranding his teammates, not the other way around. He has hung both Gomez and TAA out to dry on a consistent basis, providing neither youngster with any cover at all, he also does the same with his centre back partner. Matip simply can't defend. As for standing players up, he is as bad as Lovren for trying to nick it high. The difference is that Matip is not strong enough to get round them or through them the way Lovren does, so often ends up just waving a foot aimlessly at the ball from behind the forward. While that may look less obviously bad, it is just as bad.

His only good performances have come when Liverpool dominate and he has no defending to do.

At 26 he should be coming into his peak, not talking about plenty of potential!}

25 Sep 2017 11:16:24
I think when Matip finds himself in a defensive challenge he gets the job done probably 6 or 7 times in 10.

My problem is that as Ed001 has alluded to, he seems to deliberately avoid having to challenge for the ball. He gets close enough to the ball to look like he's trying but without actually impacting anything. I don't think he actually wants to defend most of the time.

He is strong as an ox running with the ball, but can be almost be blown out the way by an attacker. It's bizarre. He just lacks any quantity of aggression in my opinion. I wonder if his ankle operation has anything to do with it. Is he scared? Does he not trust the pin in his ankle to be strong enough? Or perhaps it just genuinely hasn't healed properly?

I find it so hard to believe not a 6ft5 man mountain can just naturally be scared of a challenge to the extent where he deliberately positions himself where he doesn't have to make them. He needs to be replaced though unless he can sort out his lack of fight. It's frightening.

A tale of two RR's. Rolls Royce on the ball, Reliant Robin off it.

25 Sep 2017 12:49:06
😂 @ WCD and the rotation of the earth.

Do you need to be quick to play in a high defensive line? In my opinion if you can anticipate and read the game you should be able to intercept most threats. My beef with Matip is he seems happiest when he's facing his own goal.

25 Sep 2017 12:52:49
Fact. is he is just another list of poor poor players we have.

Though the Ed says he is good on the ball but the fact remains that he does not know the timing or Position.

They are so bad and when we loose the ball all hell breaks loose.

Cheers.

25 Sep 2017 14:11:53
why we sold lucas and kept the likes of klavan boggles my mind.

25 Sep 2017 17:30:14
Damn MK! You're an encyclopedia.

25 Sep 2017 00:22:16
Hi ed001 wonder if you knew what the view from the club is of Curtis jones? I've seen him play bits and pieces this season and he looks to be a talent.

{Ed001's Note - I don't know mate, I would have to ask.}

25 Sep 2017 07:20:04
Ed there teasing the arsenal fans saying they had a win in the champions league. Haha.

{Ed001's Note - ?}

25 Sep 2017 07:24:49
Wrong thread ed. Was ment to post on your match review.

{Ed001's Note - I realised that afterwards and amended the report to fix my error. I wasn't teasing, just getting old and prone to mistakes!}

25 Sep 2017 08:09:53
Ok thanks for the reply ed maybe mk can help I know he watches some of the academy games.

25 Sep 2017 08:43:54
RedWillis, he is a pretty quick attacker with a good eye for goal. Very tough to take the ball off him when he gets going. I've heard he is very highly rated. Jones, Dhanda and McAuley are all highly rated actually and depending on who you speak to, you'll get a different opinion on who is the best of the 3. Personally i think Jones is as he's the best on the ball of the 3 for me. They are all excellent in front of goal though.

These lads are very exciting. Gerrard has fallen on his feet to inherit an u18's team with so much attacking quality. The only issue they may have is where to go next. With Kent, Wilson, Brewster, Ojo, Solanke and Woodburn all ahead of them and barely older, they could struggle to keep progressing. It is unbelievable how much attacking talent we seem to be churning out in recent years. Although the likes of Ibe, Sterling, Solanke, Sinclair, Canos and Ojo were poached from other academies to be fair.

Would love to here from AG on Curtis Jones though. His view of the academy seems to have more inside knowledge than he let's on 😉.

25 Sep 2017 09:23:43
Thanks mk. From what I've seen of him he looks terrific on the ball. Good technique. Fingers crossed that he keeps developing well. Scouser too which is nice to see. I'm v excited about Brewster he looks to be a great talent. I worry for Kent, Ojo and Wilson they all have a lot of talent this is a big season for them all. Fingers crossed Kent and Ojo make an impact on loan and Wilson keeps banging them for the u23's and gets a couple of chances in the first team but with salah and mane doing so well it will be hard to get starts for us.

25 Sep 2017 10:46:57
Welcome mate. I also worry for the 3 you mentioned. I see them all ending up in the Premier League, just not necessarily with us.

25 Sep 2017 10:57:51
For me I think CJ looks really good but still young and some way to go. Camacho in a similar bucket, think he'll be excellent in time. The young LB has also had some good games (think Adam Lewis converting there from midfield? )

Of those in the u23s I'd say Woodburn, Wilson are the obvious ones but Dhanda looks to be seriously stepping up (like a young Lallana type player but potentially better goal scoring/ set piece ability) and Brewster looks very exciting too. Brewster feels like he could be a young Sturridge type player given time, good on the ball, quick feet and short backlift, and pace to get in behind. Probably another couple of years away though.

The one that seems to be under the radar but playing really well is Matty Virtue. A real box to box player but a goal threat and has turned a few games recently with his energy in midfield and threat going forward. Another year and may be a threat to first team football.

Think we have lots of talent in attack coming through.