Liverpool Banter Archive November 30 2017

30 Nov 2017 18:24:29
Ed1 I read your match report mate from last night, just wandering who your midfield would be?

{Ed001's Note - I honestly do not know, maybe Can and Henderson sitting. Whoever it is, they need to play together regularly to build up a proper partnership.}

30 Nov 2017 18:52:28
Personally If we are going to continue with the 2 man midfield than it has to be Emre and wijnaldum. Hendo cannot play in a 2 and currently is miles off the pace. Emre and wijnaldum have worked well together in the past. Emre offers much than hendo in the 6 in my opinion. He carries the ball forward, plays incisive forward passes, breaks up the play and uses his physical presence effectively. Although he does have a tendency to drift for periods of games.

{Ed025's Note - now im waiting for you to make a case for wijnaldum SIB....i cant wait to hear this one mate..

30 Nov 2017 20:44:13
We need to get Lallana back fit as soon as possible. For me the midfield 3 would then be him, Can and Coutinho. In an ideal world we would strike a deal to bring in Kieta early in Jan with Coutinho then committing his future to us. However neither is going to happen.

30 Nov 2017 20:51:20
Can and Hendo sitting is the only viable option at the moment imo. Neither of them is good enough defensively to play "the pivot", or "the 6", or whatever you want to call it, by themselves. Can doesn't seem to ever spot danger and whilst Henderson does spot it sometimes and react, he's not a particularly effective tackler. And none of our other midfielders do any defending at all, inevitably leaving whomever out of Can or Hendo is picked to hold the fort themselves. Which neither of them can do. Did you see how many times Allen got free yesterday? He's Joe Allen. He's not actually good, yet he bamboozled Can basically with his ability to run around a lot. And of course Can got no help from Gini.

At least if there was Hendo and Can sitting, they'd help each other out and the third central midfielder could effectively be absolved of all notional defensive responsibility and focus on helping Firmino press.

We have to change something anyway, because none of our central midfielders are having a good season. Hendo's copped a lot of stick, but I don't see who's done any better than him. Can hasn't. Milner hasn't. Gini hasn't. Speaking of Gini, he's really frustrating me. He's got lots of ability, yet every other match he's totally invisible. It's not good enough at this level.

30 Nov 2017 20:52:58
Jayden, Can would be ruthlessly exposed with Lallana and Coutinho either side of him.

30 Nov 2017 20:23:19
Well Emre is our best midfielder and he works best with wijnaldum. Also wijnaldum does a lot of work that goes unnoticed, he's links the play and gets forward. I'll agree though that some of his performance this season have been very poor. Him and Emre carried us to the top 4 last season too.

{Ed025's Note - i think can is a good player and agree with your assessment of him SIB, but wijnaldum on the other hand is inconsistent and disappears in games to the point you dont know whether hes playing or not, we all have our favourites of course mate but i dont think he deserves even a place on the bench..

30 Nov 2017 21:03:03
Something red you're not wrong there mate. But our midfield is ruthlessly exposed when Henderson and Wijnaldum play next to Can as well.

30 Nov 2017 21:40:49
hendo sitting, can and gini / lallana providing the legs.

{Ed025's Note - hendo sitting is a great idea faith..on the bench of course..

30 Nov 2017 21:40:54
Ya very true ed025 I wouldn’t class wijnaldum as one of my favourites but he can be effective, although I’d agree with you that especially this season he has been extremely inconsistent and non existent in some matches. With keita and potentially Goretzka joining he’ll face stiffer competition to start regularly.

{Ed025's Note - i doubt he will be at the club if and when them 2 come mate..

30 Nov 2017 22:35:30
We'll need a big squad to compete in every competition. If Emre sadly leaves then we really can't afford to let wijnaldum go in my opinion.

30 Nov 2017 23:19:53
Have any of you Hendo haters ever actually watched what he does? You should, he gets through the work of 2 men in there and we miss him when he’s not in the side. He has his faults like everyone but he is an extremely good player and a great lad off the pitch too. Ed25 is just jealous because his team’s midfielders wouldn’t even make our U23 side.

30 Nov 2017 18:43:23
Ed01, again regarding midfield have you any idea why zmilner keeps getting game time. I really don’t see what he brings to the team, what are your thoughts on him and who should be getting those sub appearances if you also think he’s not suitable.

{Ed001's Note - Milner gets time because he has a good attitude and is paid a ridiculous amount of money, too much to just be sat on the sidelines not being used.

He brings lots of energy, but it is usually misdirected and he does not work back well, which means whichever part of the midfield he plays in is completely open to being countered. He is a headless chicken, runs around a lot, a hell of a lot, but it is aimless and usually he just clutters up the spaces other players want to use. I wouldn't even have him in the squad to be honest.

As for who should get the appearances, depends on the situation but it makes no sense to buy Robertson and then not put him on the bench, at the very least. Now we have Lallana back and needing time to get back his sharpness, there should be no need for Milner.}

30 Nov 2017 22:15:17
Did we have a few SC's to celebrate last night Ed?

{Ed025's Note - no barry we only beat west ham mate and they are a joke, if i was drinking it would be to drown my sorrows at the appointment of the new manager..

01 Dec 2017 03:28:20
As it stands, Everton's midfielders dream of playing well enough that they might challenge for a spot on our bench. So can completely understand Ed25 being obsessed about who is on it.

{Ed025's Note - none of our lot would make your bench phil thats true but i am far from obsessed i can assure you, the trouble with a lot liverpool fans is they live in a fantasy world where all their players are world beaters and no one should dare criticize them, its time to wake up and smell the coffee mate and realize that the majority of your team are decidedly average, im sorry and i know that the truth will hurt but like superman i dont tell lies..

01 Dec 2017 07:01:39
Nailed it Ed025 😄😄. The irony is the listen you cautiously while they take their vent at me! 😄😄😄.

{Ed025's Note - your my punch bag it seems harry, unless you say everything in the garden is rosy you are made a pariah and should be banished from the kingdom, i try to be honest and will always applaud players who are talented whoever they play for like i have been about salah ,mane and couts, but i tell it like it is and will not bow to the red tinted brigade who dont like to hear that some of the team are not up to the level of teams who expect to challenge mate..

01 Dec 2017 07:44:42
Agree with Ed025. LFC have a fantastic front 3 in Mane, Firmino and Salah. Gomez and TAA are also imo on the verge of something special. Next season we have another brilliant player in Keita joining. But that's about it when it comes to top class players at LFC.
Our defense is average compared to other top teams while our midfield is soft and lacks balance. Just a hunch of B2B mids running around like headless chickens.
Mane, Salah, Firmino, Keita, Gomez, TAA, OX and other young ones like Solanke and Woodburn aside, our entire first team can be improved on.

01 Dec 2017 07:47:23
i don't understand fascination with hendo. does what he does allright, but he a above average english midfielder. i think keita next year will show us what a midfielder needs to be. he might make hendo look good but when you shall compare the two, you's know how basic hendo's game is. he does that well granted but is no out of this world allmighty midfielder . sorry. i don't see him being better than either can or gini, so for me its can and gini, with lallana/ ox in front and then the front three.

01 Dec 2017 07:47:23
i don't understand fascination with hendo. does what he does allright, but he a above average english midfielder. i think keita next year will show us what a midfielder needs to be. he might make hendo look good but when you shall compare the two, you's know how basic hendo's game is. he does that well granted but is no out of this world allmighty midfielder . sorry. i don't see him being better than either can or gini, so for me its can and gini, with lallana/ ox in front and then the front three.

01 Dec 2017 09:51:45
Spot on Ed25. Shame you’re a blue really.

{Ed025's Note - im thinking the same thing smp..

01 Dec 2017 10:31:15
Absolutely Ed025. And why would we pretend / lie. They claim I am fascinated to other clubs players lol. I was the only one pleading this page to treat Coutinho fairly! I am blunt mate why I see things many on this page wouldn’t want to see! If someone is good no matter what color he wears he is good. Simple!

{Ed025's Note - im with you harry mate..

04 Dec 2017 09:00:55
Our best setup for a high press has been a Hendo, Gini and Lallana who work well as a team to squeeze the life out of the opposition

If sitting a little deeper I’d go with Can and Hendo in more of a 4-2-3-1 to provide a bit more cover to the back four, then use Lallana or Coutinho further forward.

30 Nov 2017 16:26:46
Hi Ed is there a match review for last nights game, did a search and couldn’t find one?

{Ed001's Note - yes mate if you can't see it on here then you can always try football news views as that is where they are posted. The link for yesterday's game is HERE

30 Nov 2017 17:54:54
Cheers mate, did a search on “match reviews”, it brought everything except last nights one so wasn’t sure if you’d had a chance to complete. Thanks again for the tip and link.

{Ed001's Note - no worries mate, thought it was the easiest way as you will know for sure if I have forgotten then. I have spent most of the day bouncing around singing "Mo Mo, Mo Mo Mo Mo, Mo Mo Mo Mo, Mo Mo Mo Mo Salah!" so it would be easy to forget. I do feel sorry for my neighbours, they must think I am a lunatic.}

30 Nov 2017 19:24:19
Can't blame you, Ed01. He is simply amazing and the funny thing is, we are only scratching the surface of his ability.

30 Nov 2017 18:49:17
Ed you said last week salah is going the right way towards becoming your fave player. Is he yet or are you resisting the urge to have a fave.

{Ed001's Note - he will need to be here a couple of seasons at least.}

30 Nov 2017 19:09:45
You sure it has nothing to do with all the stuffed animals you have ed001?

{Ed001's Note - I am not sure they would be considered strange here mate.}

30 Nov 2017 22:09:21
Ed01 did you notice the lack of celebration from some of the players when Salah scored the volley to make it 2-0. I didn't notice first of all but just watched the highlights back and only 2 players who celebrated with him that I could see were Mane and Moreno (who came from a distance to jump on his back) . He ran past a couple of players across the goal who just stood there.

{Ed001's Note - I didn't notice. I am too busy celebrating myself to be honest. It is probably meaningless but it is something I will try and remember to look out for in future.}

01 Dec 2017 07:46:32
Someone said Salah has always been a LFC fan but I'm worried about recent comments coming from his camp. Looks like the player harbours a desire to move to Real in the near future. Very worrying if true. That's why one should never get attached to football players. Support the club, not the player.

{Ed025's Note - fair point mate..

30 Nov 2017 16:09:32
Joe Gomez was very good last night
Can see a big future that hopefully stops us spending some money!

30 Nov 2017 17:20:51
He is learning slowly but surely and that can only be a good thing. I feel next season that Klopp may be ready to have him play CB constantly BUT for now, he is playing well and learning quickly in a back 3 or at RB. There is no knowledge lost if you are constantly on the pitch.

30 Nov 2017 17:42:00
He has always been good when played. Not exactly surprising is it?
The question is when Klopp will bring him back into his preferred position. Probably in 2-3 seasons so I am happy to see Joe learn the nuances of defending from the wider positions as it did the likes of Carra, Alderweireld and Vertonghen a world of good.

30 Nov 2017 09:39:08
Some people are moaning that we gave Stoke 2 or 3 chances to score? We had about 8. Stoke are good going forward anyway. That isn't their problem. Their issues are at the back and we exploited that to perfection, whilst keeping the ball out of our own net by hook or by crook.

The media darlings from Old Trafford drew this exact fixture 2-2. Stoke is not an easy place to go, let alone at 0 degree temperatures in the middle of a hectic fixture pile up.

Also, i don't see how Mignolet was apparently lucky not to see red. Yes it was an awful mistake which on another day could have cost us a goal, but Diouf was surrounded by defenders. Gomez was easily getting back goal side or at least close enough to make a challenge.

Even if you do think we rode our luck, Vincent Kompany has somehow cheated a red card twice in the last couple of weeks against Leicester and now Southampton. So why is it when another big club get's lucky we say "you need a bit of luck" and when it's us people say "we shouldn't be relying on luck"! Hypocrisy.

You make your own luck in football.

30 Nov 2017 10:02:23
Decent points there, but there are too many people who are more interested in how amazing everyone else is and how awful we are than anything else. If it doesn't fall into that world view, it doesn't compute to them.

30 Nov 2017 10:22:57
Diouf pokes it in with his next touch. It definitely should have been a red. It was reckless and poor keeping again could have cost us the game. Great result though if mane and Solanke had netted those one on ones it could have been over at half time. The options we now have in the final third should keep us scoring through this tough period of fixture pile up and I think we’ll be top 4 by Xmas.

30 Nov 2017 10:47:06
Redwillis, the rules have been changed. It was a definite yellow card. I explained the new rule in my reply to the thread below if you're interested.

It was an absolutely unquestionable yellow card though (unless you think Mignolet's one footed, studs down, mistimed tackle can be interpreted as violent conduct) .

30 Nov 2017 11:16:08
could have cost us but didn't. I like to think that Mignolet saved us a goal really.!

30 Nov 2017 11:29:24
MK the real question is why did migs even come for it when we had 2 defenders there, he did the exact same vs spurs except kane put that away, he hasn't learnt from his mistakes, in fact he's still making the exact same ones hoping for different results? insanity.

if migs stays and diouf pokes it then migs can save it and there's no crys for a red. he created that situation just like ed001 talks about he causes panick with his terrible decision making.

30 Nov 2017 12:28:22
TBH it was more the period after the foul, he seemed to lose his composure and sent nerves through our defence, he became rash at corners and it took him a while to settle down again, its a common theme with him.

30 Nov 2017 12:38:56
I agree it was a reckless decision and Mignolet is a poor keeper. I'm not defending his ability. I'm defending that one isolated scenario. People can thumbs down all they like. But the rules are rules and by the letter of the new laws, Mignolet only deserved a yellow card.

People are just refusing to accept that they didn't know the rules. Not knowing the rules so recently after they were changed can be forgiven, but once you've had it explained to you, continuing to ignore it to fit your own agenda is just childish ignorance. I've not even been rude about it up to now, just tried to be informative. Clearly people are happy to anonymously disagree instead of actually debate with me on this. Though it is pretty impossible to debate it when it is as clear as day once you read the new ruling that the ref got it spot on.

30 Nov 2017 13:41:06
Mk the rules are if it is a penalty to avoid 'double' punishment - e. g pen and a red card.
A tackle outside the box being last man is still a red card, deliberately or mistimed!

30 Nov 2017 15:03:36
I didn’t thumbs down anything. I’m not one of those guys. If hacking someone down when they’re about to score an open goal isn’t a red card then the rules are abit rubbish imo 😄 if it’s a penalty then at least they still get a good scoring chance but a free kick and a yellow card for what was certain to be a goal is just a pi** take really. It was just completely reckless again from migs and it could have cost us a goal or a player and I can’t for the life of me understand why he still gets games. Tbf to him he made a few good confident punches early on but as Lancaster said after that moment of madness he went back to his old indecisive nervy Self again.

{Ed001's Note - it was 100% a red card, there is no argument to be had.}

30 Nov 2017 15:22:32
The letter of the law directly states inside the penalty box you only receive a caution, to stop the "triple jeopardy", being Red card, penalty and the suspension. In this case as was outside the box, being the last man then its a red, bit of luck for us there!

(quote)
“where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offender is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball”.

30 Nov 2017 16:25:49
Your interpretation of the rules are being wrongly applied to this scenario it was a clear red card as per the law. We must be the only fans in the world who hope one of their players is banned 😂.

30 Nov 2017 16:50:28
Mignolet being sent off and banned for 3 games could have done us a favour which could have been used to our advantage for the remainder of the season by having Karius or Ward play in goal. Instead he will continue to start every premier league game and continue to cost us goals and dropped points for the remainder of the season.

30 Nov 2017 16:57:19
Mk get over it lad and stop trying to gloss it, you really need to read the rules agen. It was a definite red card! or it should of been we and migs got lucky.

30 Nov 2017 17:11:14
Thank you Dean W! I was going to try and find the exact wording myself but you've saved me the time.

In that case, i admit it is arguably a red card. Still only arguably as Gomez was right on top of Diouf, but as Gomez was behind when the challenge came in, it's fair to say Mignolet should be considered to be the last man. In which case, a red card seems the right action.

I'm quite happy to be wrong as long as somebody can back it up and educate me! Apologies to all. I remembered reading about the rule change, but i didn't remember anything about the penalty box being mentioned! That makes sense though i guess!

30 Nov 2017 17:35:46
MK, I agree with certain points in your posts however, you are missing one thing. Ref. decisions are based on what their interpretation at that moment. At that moment, another ref would have given a red based on his interpretation and NO ONE not even you, would have been able to make any bones about it. To me, it was a straight red and would have had no problem with it. I know that the rules are what they are and you are correct BUT again, the rules are based on the refs' interpretations which gives them a lot of room to maneuver. It is this fact that allows the ref to not give a red to Kompany BUT at the same time, the same ref could give a red to Migs. It's really that simple, IMO.

30 Nov 2017 17:36:22
Well done mk takes a proper fella to come out and first admit then apologise when they are wrong, well played lad.

30 Nov 2017 18:41:10
Everyone gets it wrong mate. Just got to be man enough to back down when someone proves you wrong. I've just remembered the new rule wrong, clearly! I already look like a muppet so there is no point compounding it now 😂.

30 Nov 2017 22:28:53
Mk we all no your no muppet mate you thought you was right and stood by your decision, atleast you didn't try to turn things around or deny or blame other people or twist things so respect fella!

30 Nov 2017 09:13:49
Question for indian buzzer and harry. how do you stay so positive after a 0-3 win?

30 Nov 2017 09:42:01
Harry likes to watch vids of kovacic to cheer himself up tbh.

30 Nov 2017 09:46:21
I expect Indian to reply on behalf of both of us! 😁😁.

30 Nov 2017 09:52:51
Scary

Ofcourse I do mate. In fact I watch many Croatians,
Modric, Rakitic. Comic, Koavavic, Hilallalovic and many more. I love Central midfielders. I am so obsessed with that role I asked one of the editor to write articles about them! I playe little bit of footy myself and I play in that position. The thing you don’t watch any football other than Liverpool doesn't surprise me. Unfortunately I do why I know all those names!

30 Nov 2017 10:23:09
i don't watch any other football? erm yes i do mate, and i was only bantering with you about kovacic.

But seeing as you reeling off your playing career, allow me. I mostly watch my son play, He's a left winger and had played 10 games this season has 19 goals 15 assists.

30 Nov 2017 10:50:56
How old is your son Houser?

30 Nov 2017 11:17:12
10 year old mate.

30 Nov 2017 11:32:29
19 goals and 15 assists would earn him a place in the academy.

30 Nov 2017 12:10:27
i have no idea about that harry, its only his second year playing football. but i don't want him in an accademy yet anyway, at this age they just recycle players every season, plus he had trails last year at fleetwood town only been playing for 6 months at the time but in the 15 min game he got a goal and assist but was told he was too small to be signed. yet i look at messi, modroc, evra ashley cole and wonder what they are thinking.

30 Nov 2017 12:48:13
Harry - lots, in fact most of us watch other teams. We just make decisions based on more than people's nationalities, and have better things to do with our spare time then masturbating over our opposition.

30 Nov 2017 18:11:56
Harry, I have been watching Croatians since 1995 (they gained independence as well as many other teams and players. Many other LFC fans do that as we are football fans first and foremost. I am/ used to be a fan of Milan, PSV, Bayern, BVB, OM, RM, all since the 90's, apart from LFC. IMO what no LFC fan I know does do, is fantasize over other teams' and our direct rivals' players and use such whierd fantasizing, to bash our own players. There lies the diff. and to that you my friend, are a unique breed.

30 Nov 2017 01:29:27
I'd like to point you all to my last loan update where I predicted a 3-0 win.
I also predicted we will 4 in a row which will see us win the group and move 4th in the league.
1 down 3 to go, next up Brighton away, I'm going 2-0.
Very organised defensively but not to much going forward, we will need the fab 4 to help unpick this team as they are not going to attack us. I say start the big guns and hopefully be in a position to sub them after an hour.

30 Nov 2017 04:31:07
Organised defensively?
If it was another side getting those chances, they would have put 3-4 past us and we would have had a repeat of the Sevilla game. Mignolet and our CBs remain below par as usual and will cost us valuable points over the course of the season (kinda expected when they are terrible footballers in the first place) .
WE will beat Brighton comfortably like u said though. Coutinho needs to do his thing from midfield and our front 3 if in form will tear them a new one. We just need our back 5 to avoid any brain farts during the game.

30 Nov 2017 05:08:00
I think carra meant that Brighton were organised defensively, not us.

30 Nov 2017 07:22:50
Thanks shayan, yes I meant Brighton. My local team so I've seen them play quite a few times this season.
Although a newly promoted side they will be tough to break down.

30 Nov 2017 07:58:58
Oh yeah Carra. Sorry about that. Like u said, the front 4 will need to be firing on all cylinders to tear them apart. No more slender lead 1-0 leads as we are pretty sure to drop points from that position. We need to steamroll Brighton.

30 Nov 2017 08:05:16
IB, the defence is not that much a problem right now, IMO. The midfield is the issue now as they are not helping the defence at the moment. Allen had two of Stokes best chances. How do you think that happened? Could it be that it was cos Can was often caught up the pitch leaving Wiji isolated against runners from deep like Allen? The same issues happened vs Chelsea BUT go ahead and blame the defence who like it or not, dealt with Stoke's hoofball very well as well as their set pieces.

30 Nov 2017 08:51:33
BRover, not one is absolving our porous midfield of any blame for our defensive woes. Yes, the defense tends to get exposed more often than not but they do not cover themselves in glory by making more than acceptable individual errors. Im not talking only about last night, its an observation over the last few seasons.
The solution would be to buy Cbs who fit better into Klopp's system and do not buckle under pressure, and also sign a CDM who protects his defense.

30 Nov 2017 18:21:57
Currently, the defence is not the issue as it is keeping clean sheets of late tho, amidst hairy moments. The midfield is a bigger issue now. We will have to agree to disagree BUT constantly bashing a defence that is trying it's best and have succeeded in shutting out the opposition, is counter productive cos again, it is a secondary issue right now.

29 Nov 2017 23:41:19
Mo Salah. Yeh but can he do it on a Cold Wednesday night in Stoke?

30 Nov 2017 04:01:01
it would appear so! brilliant of the bench!

30 Nov 2017 04:32:57
The Pharoah of Anfield could do it anywhere! He would score in the Sahara desert in extreme temperatures if we built a stadium there. He is that good.

30 Nov 2017 08:54:52
This sounds silly but is anyone curious for just how good this guy is going to be on next year's fifa haha. Dreading it tbh. 95 pace and what 85/ 87 shooting. Jesus.

30 Nov 2017 09:56:30
TopBusiness only downside and the reason I don't use him is because he has a two star weakfoot ;) hopefully that gets pushed to 3.