Liverpool Banter Archive July 15 2016

15 Jul 2016 20:16:01
Hi Eds and heads

With the preseason under way and the transfer window well and truly opened. What 1 possibly 2 players would ye buy to improve our first team?

I know we have a shed load of players still to move and I have a sneaky feeling Coutinho may leave who would you buy to replace him.

Keep up the good work lads

YWNA.

15 Jul 2016 20:23:46
Wouldn't directly replace him, I'd buy another winger, but more pace, firmino has the number 10 role nailed down for me.

15 Jul 2016 21:09:23
I wouldn't replace him. I think we already have with Mane.

Klopp likes a 3 to play in behind a striker. Mane has already been playing these friendlies on the left side (coincidence that that's where Couts plays? ) . Firmino has shone in the centre of this trio. Kent and Woodburn have looked promising also but let's not forget we have Ojo, Lallana and Milner to return from international duty who can all play in the wide areas, plus Grujic, Brannagan and Ejaria who are capable in the no.10 role. Markovic hasn't been sold yet either!

Unless we manage to shift Milner, Markovic and Lallana, I don't think we need to sign anyone in these areas.

Mane, Firmino and Grujic would suit me just fine as the first choice trio with Ojo, Brannagan, Ejaria, Woodburn, Arnold and Kent covering for injuries. As I argued further down with the centre back situation, why have over paid squad players earning money for keeping the bench warm?

Doubt we will manage to move on Lallana and Milner though. For a start Klopp likes them both and for seconds, nobody else is foolish enough to pay them £250k a week between them!

15 Jul 2016 21:32:49
A world class left back (don't know who)

15 Jul 2016 21:51:27
Competent left back would suit me.

15 Jul 2016 22:15:58
MK, surely we can't rely on youth that much? I know what you'll say, "Class of 92." but surely you got to ease them in with experience ahead of them?
After all you won't win anything with kids;)

15 Jul 2016 22:55:14
In terms of non-academy attackers that still leaves Sturridge, Origi, Ings, Firmino, Mane, Grujic and at least one of Milner or Lallana.

7 or 8 players for 3 or 4 positions, with no Europe. Hardly throwing the kids in at the deep end ;)

15 Jul 2016 23:26:08
Mane played the first game on the right and the second on the left, I think you're reading too much into it MK.

16 Jul 2016 01:15:05
He did play on the right against tranmere.

16 Jul 2016 03:55:54
Fencey, if firmino is no. 10 then wat about coutinho.

16 Jul 2016 05:01:43
Don't see Grujic as a forward at all, he was surely bought as a midfielder.
We will keep Coutinho, playing him, Firmino and Mane behind a striker. Lallana, Milner and Ojo are obviously our first choice backups, complemented by the youngsters when required.

I see a midfield duo of Can and Hendo, with Grujic pushing both for a place. Or coming in to add a touch more physicality against that type of opposition.

16 Jul 2016 09:04:41
I thought I wasn't going mad then Fencey, Mane was on the right for the Tranmere game wasn't he?

16 Jul 2016 09:06:33
Damo, if Grujic is a back up he will lose his permit.

He has almost always played either on the right or as a number 10. He can play a deeper role, but he won't be second fiddle to Hendo and Can. He is coming here to get significant game time.

16 Jul 2016 09:56:31
Any move for Coutinho should be blocked and he should be offered a new contract to put him in his rightful place which is among the clubs highest earners. A lot can change in one year. Look at De Gea.

Right now all we need is a left back to seriously challenge that top four.

Messing that up by selling one of our best players for a third year in a row is a seriously dumb move. One I hope Klopp and FSG are not dumb enough to make. Smart move I think would be a new contract. If he rejects a major pay rise then we sell next year. But he won't.

16 Jul 2016 12:32:42
Leek coutinho hasn't played at number 10 all season, he plays on the left. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him to leave, but if he does, we don't need another cam.

16 Jul 2016 12:28:21
I don't care if Grujic gets game or not, you have to ask the manager of promising game assurance. Without Coutinho and his creativity the club wouldn't move an inch from 8th place. From Alonso to Suarez, The club has learned something.

16 Jul 2016 12:22:05
8th place or beyond if people think we are good to go without Coutinho or a player as good as he. Someone has to link the Dead creative modified to Sturridge it Origi and I am not sure who are people backing here to do.

16 Jul 2016 13:23:31
GoT = doubter 🙄.

15 Jul 2016 17:38:06
Hi eds, just been reading it's the same injury for both Sakho and Gomez (Achilles Tendinopathy) with recovery time of up to 6 months, with that kind of timeframe in bed would any if you expect us to possibly spring for another cb? I'd personally wait it out in the hope Lovren and Matip stay out of harms way with Lucas as cover!

{Ed002's Note - Nobody has suggested that they will be out for six months. If Klipperty decides to buy another player rather than use the players available to him it shows how little confidence he has in the likes of Lucas and Wilson. We'll see.}

15 Jul 2016 17:55:24
Gomez has been out for a long time and hadn't even started full training if i'm not mistaken. Is the best idea really to throw the kid straight back into the premier league? Not so sure.

15 Jul 2016 17:57:11
Apologies, it's not that anyones suggested 6 months mate that was my own Google research on the reported injury! Ha.

{Ed002's Note - Ok.}

15 Jul 2016 18:21:06
Ed, do you mean Wisdom?

{Ed002's Note - Yep.}

15 Jul 2016 18:38:01
Lucas and wisdom are both not good enough. Lucas has been a great servant I may add. Sign jonathan tah and our defence will be extremely solid. Sakho, Matip, Gomez and Tah would be a brillant set of centre backs. Not including lovren cause IMO he is nowhere near the level required.

15 Jul 2016 18:36:50
I thought so Ed002, do you think he may stay at the club then?

{Ed002's Note - If the club need cover and nothing else, he should stay for now.}

15 Jul 2016 19:00:19
Sakho I agree with you mate our problem as been defence for many years, let's try and address our problems.

15 Jul 2016 19:02:39
Wisdom isn't good enough but somehow Gomez is? Sorry neither have showed enough to be considered 'good enough'. It's about giving chances and seeing who takes them. We have seen time and time again players given chances that didn't deserve it over players that did, that needs to change. Wisdom deserves his shot just as much as Gomez because they are both at the same level, in fact wisdom has more experience. Gomez played 8 games and if you remember, he started playing poorly before he got injured. Good talent and it's a shame to see him injured again but only the people in training can really judge who's good enough when we haven't seen either play centre back in the premier league. Plus who knows, maybe this is the start of a seriously injury prone Gomez. I hope not as I would have liked to see him get his chances, and no doubt prove himself but this is the reality. People kept banging on about illori for no reason and he was below average.

15 Jul 2016 19:12:49
Cheers for the reply Ed002.

Sakhoisboss, Lucas played at centre back in some huge games last year.

As for Wisdom, he has never had a proper shot at centre back, even by his loan clubs.

I think Wisdom is easily good enough to make it here even if it is only as a back up.

15 Jul 2016 19:36:53
I'm not convinced by Wisdom, he's not the tallest around and his ability is marred by the fact he is too liable to lapses of concentration.

15 Jul 2016 19:54:33
MK. Do you believe there is enough room to develop two young centre backs into the first team on a regular (ish) basis? Or do you think that one could/ would slow the other persons development and chances for first team football.

Cheers bud.

15 Jul 2016 20:19:15
You don't think Llori will get a chance ed? He looked ok the other night against that too team 😆.

{Ed001's Note - we don't have a player called Llori. We have an Ilori, perhaps he might get a chance....}

15 Jul 2016 20:57:41
That right there though is, in my opinion, the biggest problem with the premier league today. Wisdom is 6ft1 and rarely ever loses a header. So why is his height an issue? Carragher was the same height. Puyol was shorter.

Hansen was 6ft2 and Lawro was 6ft, yet they played in a far more physical era and were the best centre back partnership in English football history.

Wisdom's height has wrongly held him back. Pulis and Neil both ignored him as a centre back because he wasn't 6ft3+. Rodgers has to accept the blame there for agreeing to send him to play under such poor managers. I have never seen anything to suggest he has concentration lapses though. His greatest weakness is his tackling as he can be very rash. His temper flares, which has seen him sent off for violent conduct at youth levels in the past. He is a born leader though who has captained club and country right through the ages. If he can be more composed in the tackle he will be a Premier league defender one day. For us or someone else.

In response to the second question, why can't Gomez and Wisdom both get chances? I see absolutely no point in more than 3 senior centre backs.

We should have two first choice players (Lovren and Matip), a senior competitor to push the starters (Sakho), with young hungry back up players who will work their socks off to get game time (Gomez and Wisdom/ Brewitt) . I have loved the likes of Toure, Kyriakgos etc. They played with passion. But seriously? We need a guy on massive wages who is happy to do nothing to earn them until an injury crisis forces them to?

Instead of having 3 senior players, one experienced cover in their mid 30's and then a young player, why not have 3 senior players and 2 young lads? If Wisdom isn't deemed good enough, let Brewitt have the chance.

Will they both get chances? Well Sakho is made of glass and Matip will be away for a month in the ACON. Plus the fact they can both play as either full back. If they can't get cup games at least I'd argue that Klopp is lacking in a fundamental area of management.

If we are in need of a centre back, I'm with Ed002. Utilise the guys at the club who have never had a chance and stop wasting money and wages. I remember when we took Wisdom from Bradford and he was seen as a future captain of England. Yet a succession of managers lacking in coaching qualities with regards to youth academy players (Rafa, Roy then Rodgers), have wrecked his career thus far. I don't think he'll ever get to the level he should have now, but he at least deserves a chance. If he won't get that here though, he should be allowed to move on as Ibe was. Then maybe we can sign Gareth McAuley to sit on the bench and play cup games for £60k a week! Woohoo.

15 Jul 2016 21:50:47
No offence peeps but Wisdom hardly played for West Bromwich or Norwich on loan, surely that's something to go by.

15 Jul 2016 21:54:25
All cool. Appreciate the response. 👍.

15 Jul 2016 22:45:06
Buy, buy, buy. That's all I hear. A player breaks a nail, he needs replacing. What is with some fans and just signing players for next to no reason? Have people learned nothing from the former regime with BR just buying players with no idea what to do with them? This is how we got Allan, Ilori, Awoniyi, Adekanye, Manquillo, Coates, Caulker and the list goes on. We currently have a squad of 38 players yet people want more players to come in. Get a grip! Gomez or Sahko who will out for six and four weeks respectively, do NOT need to be replaced. We will use who we have and Basta. Mighty reds, your post makes no sense. because aweful managers like Neil and the god aweful Tony Pulis, didn't pick Wisdom means absolutely nothing since they play football that even those in the 16th century would laugh at.

15 Jul 2016 23:50:32
If Gomez has a 'Tendinopathy', then it means the condition is degenerative and will have to be managed, I presume, for his entire career. He must have had trouble with his achilles in the past because a tendinopathy is a later stage of the injury, way beyond the normal inflammatory condition of an injury. He's pretty young to be suffering wear and tear already, I hope the kids going to be ok. Maybe that Square Tomato guy can give us an update.

16 Jul 2016 00:15:54
Sturridge got left out for Sterling, Rooney and Lallana be Roy Hodgson.

Since when did we judge our players based on the opinions of managers who play boring, defensive, and archaic football? Pulis also picks McClean ahead of Berahino purely because McClean is a thug!

Alex Neil played Jerome, Mbokani, Tettey etc ahead of Hoolahan (who is their most gifted player by far), just because he is under 6ft and not lightning fast.

I really couldn't care less what Pulis, Hodgson, Neil etc think about our players. They are all clueless which is why they have never won anything despite each of them spending a small fortune and/ or having multiple chances at the top of the game. When Mark Hughes can take over your team and make it better, you know you are doing something wrong! Tony Clueless.

16 Jul 2016 00:56:30
I agree with mk here. Both Gomez and wisdom deserve a shot at some point. None have proven themselves at the highest level yet and none have proven they can't make it so having 3 senior CB and two hungry young CB is great. At least one should prosper if managed correctly, plus they are both English which is positive in my opinion and there are not many good English players left, so let's develop some.

16 Jul 2016 01:20:17
I think we all know Wisdom and Ilori aren't good enough.

16 Jul 2016 04:29:57
Tendinopathy is fairly common for athletes like hendos injury. He'll need rest and rehab.

16 Jul 2016 06:21:24
I don't think Wisdom is good enough in all honesty and it would be better for the lad, as well as for us, if he was moved on. To say Lucas is not good enough is crazy talk though especially when he is by far the best defensive midfielder we have at the club. If we let Lucas go we will regret it as we have no-one to step into his shoes. Stewart has certainly done well and Chivarella looks to have a promising future but for right now, this season, Lucas would be better kept than sold. He has a lot to offer, is a great ambassador for the club and is a perfect role model for the younger players breaking through. Selling him will achieve what exactly?

16 Jul 2016 09:34:46
@MK I think you make a good point and you clearly feel strongly about it.

I however, would prefer to see Lucas cover the role for now as he has shown last season that he can do it capably - Wisdom hasn't yet for whatever reason listed and so he'd be behind Lucad for me in the pecking order.

16 Jul 2016 11:16:53
Hi Puzzled. I am not confident Wisdom will be good enough for us long term. But I do feel strongly about him at least getting a chance. If he fails, maybe we can sell him to Bournemouth for £15m next season ;)

16 Jul 2016 12:16:58
Ilori is a poor defender. It's not chance he wants, it's s love away from Liverpool he needs now.

15 Jul 2016 16:08:31
Just read burnley want to sign flannagan, anyone else heard or can confirm?

15 Jul 2016 17:36:51
I'd heard a similar rumour too.

15 Jul 2016 20:00:38
Hope not. Potential to be England's right back. Let alone a regular for us.

15 Jul 2016 21:17:05
And who gives a flyin . about England?

15 Jul 2016 14:19:57
Will we ever hear any information about the supposed "buy back clause" in the Ibe transfer? (Which i still believe is rubbish and completely unenforceable)

Do aspects of transfers such as that need to be reported to the FA/ PL/ UEFA in the same way that transfer fees do?

Or would it just be an agreement between the clubs, if it exists at all?

Cheers in advance.

{Ed002's Note - There is no need to inform UEFA.}

15 Jul 2016 14:38:27
Cheers Ed :)

Do you think that there is some sort of buy-back clause in Ibe's deal? And if so how would such a thing work in practice?

Cheers again, sorry for all the questions.

{Ed001's Note - buy back? It really depends on the contract. The usual is just to set a price that the selling club can buy back the player at a later date.}

15 Jul 2016 13:33:01
All this desire for a new CB due to short term injury, we are trying to offload not add!

One thing that popped into my head is the possibility of using Can as a makeshift CB if needs be?

CM seems to be the most overrun with players so seems to fix both problems, what are your thoughts ed's?

would you like to see how the current crop do at present, hopefully one of wisdom or Ilori can pull their finger out and actually show some talent.

{Ed002's Note - Or Lucas or even Wilson.}

15 Jul 2016 14:26:56
We have Lucas and Can as senior cover for CB, and also Brewitt.

If the management are in any way worried about Gomez or Sakho's recovery time, surely they would just look to keep one of Ilori or Wisdom as cover?

15 Jul 2016 14:44:54
I think lloyd Jones is still at the club as well, i don't see the need to purchase another 'back up centre back'

15 Jul 2016 17:42:38
Lucas as a centre back is a great shout, though he's not the tallest, his reading of the game is superb and he's one of the best tacklers at the club as well as being deceptively good in the air.

15 Jul 2016 12:26:48
Eds 2. What is the norm for a player who isn't wanted by the club eg ballo. but we can't sell. Will jurgen still want him involved with the squad etc or is it a case of train with the kids etc. Just curious as I can imagine someone knowing their not wanted could cause problems with team morale focus . Cheers.

{Ed002's Note - It is often the case that they won't train at all and if they do it will be separate to the squad.}

15 Jul 2016 12:57:53
Cheers eds2, as always, appreciated.

15 Jul 2016 10:37:26
Steven Roy caulker could do a job.

15 Jul 2016 08:55:58
In all honesty i don't think the injury to gomez will make much difference.

He was unlikely to get time in the position at the start of the season and providing neither lovren or matip get injured we should be fine. Even if they do, we still have lucas who performed admirably there. Also we have an academy for a reason.

Hopefully the injury isn't too long term and he'll be back a few games into the new season, there will be no need to sign another centre back, that is ridiculous.

15 Jul 2016 11:17:00
Ed002 is always banging on about Ilori being the best up and coming centre back in world football. I'd throw him in.

15 Jul 2016 12:37:03
He has been called up to the Olympic squad.

15 Jul 2016 00:35:06
Joe Gomez suffers Achilles injury. anyone got toures phone number? 😂😂😂.

15 Jul 2016 04:00:48
How bad?

15 Jul 2016 12:01:28
7 disagrees? i only said has anyone got toures number?

16 Jul 2016 10:53:47
How many people do you think Kolo gives his number to?
Hence the disagrees 😉.

15 Jul 2016 00:03:09
Anyone know how long Sakho and Gomez are injured for? They'll both miss the start of the season, but if it's a few weeks, surely at a game a week we could cope with just Matip and Lovren, with either Lucas or Ilori as cover.

If it's until Christmas for example, then I'd understand us buying or better still loaning another CB.

15 Jul 2016 14:27:24
Sahko 4 weeks, Gomez 6 weeks.