Liverpool Banter 3

20 Apr 2026 20:14:35
Hi guys and Ed's I was just wondering why everywhere I look on social media people say Kevin be bruyne is the best midfielder to grace the prem what do you think?

I think he's one of the most overrated of all time a top player no doubt but he's not even top ten for me I just don't get why people rate him so highly? So many better players for me vieira Keane scholes Gerrard Essien makelele I honestly could list a load more or am I missing something and he's the Premier League goat?

{Ed025's Note - hes right up there for me QOSR..

20 Apr 2026 20:37:23
I think Roy Keane said he was cus he didn't want to say it was Gerrard, and people are latching on to that, but, if fairness, he's very very close! He's right up their.

20 Apr 2026 21:06:12
Must just be me. I thought he had a good period at City for what, like 7/8 years? But he was in an expensively assembled squad with the best players in the world, the likes of Gerrards, Scholes never flopped when they were younger, and longevity wise blitz him.

Pretty sure Gerrard was hitting 20+ goals for a few seasons. I also think David Silva was better, as was Yaya Toure, but wasn’t around as long, but like I said maybe I’m wrong.

{Ed025's Note - Silva was a great player as well, both miles and miles above Gerrard for me, but thats just an opinion of course..

20 Apr 2026 21:12:18
Watching KDB in his prime live was an experience.

First time I watched him, I watched very closely, and you take your eye off him for a few seconds, and all of a sudden he just pops up in space where there was no space to receive the ball.

He was not quick, but it was like he was teleporting around the pitch with how he was reading the game, because he just seemed a few steps ahead.



Stevie G, on the other hand, looked like he would run through a brick wall to win.

Guy was a born winner.

20 Apr 2026 21:07:34
And I know you said right up there Ed but number 1? Loads of people seem to think it's not even a debate

{Ed025's Note - its just how you see things QOSR, you have battlers and you have ballers...im a ballers guy myself and love to see flair so the likes of Scholes, Lampard and miserable arse are down the list for me mate..

20 Apr 2026 21:52:16
A Premier League great, should have a winners medal, or 2, to be even a part of the conversation.

{Ed025's Note - i dont think it was all his fault he never Ritchie, he played in some very poor sides at times mate..

20 Apr 2026 21:56:43
KDB was a great midfielder, but give me Keane, Gerrard or Vieira any day of the week.

{Ed025's Note - there should maybe be 2 categories Ecogsi, one for grafters and one for ballers...you are obviously a grafter guy mate..

20 Apr 2026 21:57:15
There have been so many, and there's a lot of recency bias.

It's hard to judge because of the various criteria, longevity, durability, pure skill, goals scored.

If you're asking about "baller" quality, then I don't think you'll find many with the skill level of Paul Gascoigne.

{Ed025's Note - he certainly makes the list Ron..

20 Apr 2026 22:03:37
Ed025, Gerrard was a baller and a battler, you need to take your bright blue national health specs off, you don't like Gerrard because of things you've supposedly heard about him, he was a supreme athlete and footballer, be worth about 150 mill plus in todays market

{Ed025's Note - i dont like him only because he is a tosser Strom, but taking personality out of it he was a grafter who excelled in mainly poor sides, scored quite a few goals as well so is right up there in the grafter category mate..

20 Apr 2026 23:58:15
Gerrard and KDB were unique players with more individual star quality than any other midfielder to have played in the PL. I think Gerrard was better, but KDB isn't far off.
The Yaya Toure shout is wild - he was nowhere near the level of those two. He could score a hat-trick yet somehow be outplayed by Joe Allen in the same game.

21 Apr 2026 00:38:45
Yaya Toure was an absolute beast. He's a bit of a p****, but can't fault his footballing ability. He can do everything and is one of the most complete midfielders I've seen.

But in all honesty, we have been blessed to witness some really great midfielders in the PL.

We have not even discussed players like Alonso, Essien, Ballack, Mash, Carrick, Fabregas, etc. Maybe not the best midfielders, but all truly good players in their own right.

{Ed025's Note - Ngolo Kante?..

21 Apr 2026 00:45:12
Yaya Toure was ridiculous that season, he hit around the twenty mark, but KDB does him on longevity in terms of pure talent. Yaya was insane, go watch some of his goals.

21 Apr 2026 02:45:37
KDB is a top top player, but calling him number 1 is a bit much in my book, and likely an opinion only shared amongst those who spend most of their time on Snapchat. Where exactly he ranks depends on what you're looking for, I suppose. If you want a leader who can really command a game, you take Keane or Souness, a physically dominant box to box midfielder; Viera or Toure, a creative passer, you take Scholes or KDB, high goal output, Lampard or Dalglish, but if you want all of the above, you take Gerrard.

😉

Have to say I'm very partial to a bit of Matt Le Tissier though.

21 Apr 2026 04:09:45
Chewy, Souness wasn't factored into my opinion as I only mentioned PL. If it's all-time, that is a much bigger debate.
Keane, Vieira, Scholes, Lampard, etc., were all outstanding players, but imo Gerrard and KDB were a lot better.
Matt Le Tissier was excellent, but his lack of real honours rules him out entirely, even though he had plenty of opportunities to move to bigger clubs.


Yaya Toure was a can-crusher. He could easily overpower lesser midfields, and had great technique on the ball, but against equally capable midfields, he was a liability. He showed some defensive ability at Barca, but even then his ability on the ball at CB and DM was far more important to their team.

20 Apr 2026 23:13:58
Ed025, Gerrard is one of the best players ever at Liverpool, a team that's has won the league 20 times the European cup 6 times, imagine the talented players who have played for us over tg3 years n Gerrard is in the everybody's top 5, Madrid, Chelsea (when they had mourinho ) even whiskey nose wanted him at united and yet you don't think he is top drawer.we are never ever going to agree on this one

{Ed025's Note - im not saying he was not a good player Strom..he obviously was, he stood out in a team that was not as good as him and thats why he never won a league title and never really did it at international level, he carried Liverpool for a number of years and i get the adulation i really do mate, maybe its because im a blue but ihe just not one of my favourite players..

21 Apr 2026 07:32:02
Can't believe I forgot about Kante Ed. He's right up there for me as well. A bit less attacking than Toure but he has a much better attitude and personality and works twice as hard. I still think Toure is more skillful but I'd rather have Kante in my team.

Makes me think of all those midfielders who are good but are from "smaller" clubs too. Players like Dembele, Modric, and Cahill who won't be in the conversation just because they didn't play for a "big club"

{Ed025's Note - Kante was an excellent player Drac and one of the best i have seen mate..

21 Apr 2026 08:10:29
We could do with a Kante now! And a KDB, and a SG... and a JK to fix this mess.

21 Apr 2026 09:48:02
Jimjim, funny you mentioned that cos even Rio (Ferdinand) said that KDB is nowhere near Gerrard on KDB's best day. Just saying.

As for KDB being the best all-time midfielder in the PL history, that's not a thing, I'm sorry. Gerrard, Viera, Kante, Keane, Silva, Yaya, Lampard, Scholes, Alonso (me, personally)? Nah, not for me and I'm a KDB fanboy, btw.



And the biggest complement I can play to SG is that none of those mids I mentioned could ever achieve what SG did, individually and collectively, had any of them played in the LFC teams SG played in.

Proof? Paul Scholes admitted that openly and still does.

21 Apr 2026 10:29:08
Would KDB or Silva have been able to handle the Prem in the 90s and early 2000s with Gerrard, Kean, Scholes, Viera. I don't think so. I don't think they would have been protected by the way refereeing has gone in today's football.

21 Apr 2026 10:57:26
Don't forget about Paolo Wanchope and Juninho. 😁

21 Apr 2026 11:04:22
Mascherano was so good, it's a shame we couldn't keep hold of him.
A defensive midfielder who was rock solid, so much so, he became a centre back.

West Ham got Tevez and Mash over to the Prem on the dodgiest deal ever lol.

21 Apr 2026 09:40:53
Ed025, Gerrard couldn't help that our team wasn't good enough but he definitely was, if he went to Madrid etc n won multiple leagues n euro cups would that make him a better player or just a player who won more, look at all these poor players who have won titles in United, Chelsea n even Madrid eras

{Ed025's Note - he wanted a move Strom, unfortunately forces outside of the football club forced him to stay mate, maybe if he had moved and won a lot more it may have elevated his profile...but who knows?..

21 Apr 2026 12:48:38
Kante was absolutely unreal, at his best, having him in your team was like having an extra player on the pitch. I'm a massive fan of Modric, but his best years were not in the Premier League, obviously that goes for Xabi too, though peak Liverpool Xabi is still one of my favorite players of all time, even though he still had yet to reach his absolute prime.

21 Apr 2026 13:50:15
You guys are forgetting Dennis Bergkamp. As good as KDB, for me.

{Ed025's Note - a great player ArAy..

20 Apr 2026 19:28:54
Ed025
Woodman outshone your favourite keeper yesterday, I thought he did great considering the occasion.
Your prediction of the Reds winning one and losing one was bang on last week, hope you got some money on it at the bookies

{Ed025's Note - one of our lads had 2-1 to the reds and VVD last goal at 180/1 Hughesy, we got £905 back for a fiver and shared it 4 ways...£225 each mate, Woodman had nothing to do really bar nearly messing up with Virgil but we were very passive and never tested him..

20 Apr 2026 20:26:13
I would be disappointed in everton ed25 if I was an Everton supporter. Liverpool where there for the taking, bar 1st 25mins when Everton looked sharp going forward and should've been ahead I never really felt Everton going to score. When Everton did score and double whammy for lfc losing keeper which put us onto 3rd choice I thought they would kick on and steamroller us but never materlised.

A bit of huff and puff but nothing really worth talking about. Both teams poor I thought but glad from lfc point of view we didn't fold.
What was your opinion on game?

{Ed025's Note - pretty similar actually Digger, both teams were a bit passive and basically our midfield never showed up mate, Garner and KDH never really showed up for us and McNeil was a waste of space, i thought Beto did well but when he was replaced by Barry it was the end of any scoring for us...he is the worst player i think i have ever seen, the reds were decent i thought and Gravy was better than recently and so was Mo, i thought a draw would have been a fair result but thats just the way the cookie crumbles i suppose my old mate..

20 Apr 2026 21:45:27
Every team needs a Barry Ed025 😁

{Ed025's Note - one would hope not Barry...especially if he is your centre forward mate.. :)

20 Apr 2026 21:49:34
Barry's ability is quite a shout ed025 considering some of the tat you've had at Everton in recent years!

{Ed025's Note - your right Avit, but this fella is about as bad as it gets mate, he has nothing...couldn,t trap a bag of cement, lazy, awkward, no positional sense and as weak as a kitten,he makes Neil Maupay look like Messi..

20 Apr 2026 23:20:47
Yous have managed to unearth some real stinkers over the years. Kone but not forgotten.

{Ed025's Note - haven,t we just Flidby, im convinced our scouts just look at clips on you tube and dont actually watch these players mate, i know all teams make mistakes with players but my god we are certainly top of that league..

20 Apr 2026 19:09:18
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Everton v Liverpool - A Quick Liverpool Perspective

20 Apr 2026 19:58:17
Can't argue with any of that, Crystal ball time, but how do you see Isak working out long term? Obviously brilliant at Newcastle, but something tells me he's not right for us.
Hard to judge with the injury and fitness problems so far and would gladly be proved wrong!

20 Apr 2026 19:52:29
Any idea ed why he is leaving the substitutions this late.

Starting Isak against psg felt like a weird move, if you're worried you'd only get a max 45 out of the lad bring him on at 75 mins rather than starting him. That is if extra time was a worry, bringing in a player clearly lack match sharpness, wreaked of him trying to be overly smart.

{Ed001's Note - he leaves the subs late because he doesn't trust them.}

20 Apr 2026 20:03:25
I wouldn't judge him so soon. The team is playing a way they don't like. They're not playing for this manager. Give him a season under a different manager and that goes for everyone. A man manger. A people person.

20 Apr 2026 19:52:50
Sent too soon, great review ED

{Ed001's Note - thank you.}

20 Apr 2026 20:57:05
In my opinion, Wirtz is playing poorly because he's out of position. Like Bobby under Roger's. Enter Klopp, he uses him correctly, and he becomes world class. I think Alonso would get a tune out of Wirtz in the Prem.

20 Apr 2026 22:42:50
Ed01, surely you must be joking with that "he doesn't trust them? " No wonder the players don't want to break a sweat, they don't trust him either.
Nunez for his lack of ability had desire and sheer determination but he also did not trust the manager and stopped trying.

21 Apr 2026 04:48:57
Good review, although I don't see how you can manage rewatching our games this season, even on the odd occasion we win.
It seems much of the club that has been built up since Klopp took over is deteriorating, whether by Slot or Edwards... We soon will just have a collection of overpaid players with little connection to the club...

Couple of points -
Wirtz - there are concerns, but his ability doesn't look in doubt.

However, he's a little slow as u mentioned - perhaps waiting for movement, and he needs to strengthen more. A little too easily bullied at times, much like us.
Ingamoa - you've been a bit critical at times, how far do you think he can go? He obviously has talent, personally think he needs to work harder out of possession.

Can't believe it is likely Slot remains next season, my enthusiasm for watching us dismisses each game.

{Ed001's Note - Ngumoho lacks pace and power, he needs to build himself up and get an end product as flashy stepovers won't get him far. Added to that, he has a lot to work on defensively. I am not convinced by him yet, he has so much he needs to do and I am wary of players that jump ship for money at such a young age.}

21 Apr 2026 06:50:33
Highlight of the review called out 100% correctly - where Macca was supposed to be...

21 Apr 2026 08:17:40
I agree ED01. Every time I see him playing I'm just not that impressed. I mentioned on a live chat that I just don't see what he provides, runs a bit and shakes his leg a lot but otherwise nothing. That said he scored about 5 minutes after I posted it! But in general that's his lot in reality.

Those clamouring for RN instead of Gakpo are totally wide of the mark imo. I like Gakpo he offers so much more than Rio. I don't see it with him. Yet.

{Ed001's Note - we might be the only ones that see it that way though!}

21 Apr 2026 09:40:11
I'm pretty excited seeing Slot playing Wirtz at right back next season when Dom is out injured.

21 Apr 2026 09:50:23
{Ed001's Note - he leaves the subs late because he doesn't trust them.}

hence, he makes subs to try not to lose the game. Or he empties the bench when we need to get an equalizer when behind at the end of the game as a kind of Hail Mary gamble right, Ed01?

{Ed001's Note - exactly.}

20 Apr 2026 18:28:28
Well done to Diaz who wins the title with Bayern. Had a look at some stats and comparing Europe's top 5 leagues for points per game/ matches played. Premier League teams not even in top 6. We are 27th. Shows how competitive the league really is. Although out of 96 teams both Wolves and Burnley in bottom 5.

20 Apr 2026 18:45:46
Was the league not very competitive when us and City were going toe to toe for 97/98 points etc.

I thought back then Klopp's team were mentality monsters, but it must have been teams were rolling over for us.

20 Apr 2026 18:50:09
The leagues a shambles at the moment, anyone who thinks otherwise needs their head checked. there's so much anti-football it should be called the Haram League. With all drama on the pitch these days they should just turn it into a reality tv show.

20 Apr 2026 19:24:33
Proof that shooting fish in a barrel is easy.

Well done, Diaz. 👍

20 Apr 2026 19:27:44
My point being that the top of the list was the sides who dominated their leagues all the time. At least over here it is a bit more competitive from the middle teams.

20 Apr 2026 19:29:03
Premier League is a horrendous watch.

They've ruined the game with these corrupt Refs, excessive VAR, corner obsessed tactics.

We over analyse everything, make the transfer window a soap opera, and drive the cost up on tickets or "make them simply unattainable" for real fans.

Also, on a personal preference, bring back slide tackling! Not everything is a flipping yellow card.

20 Apr 2026 19:32:00
With how our season's gone, it's very competitive with the bottom teams, mate.

20 Apr 2026 19:40:24
Indeed, Ron. I saw the Bayern v Madrid game and Diaz (tho, he scored the winner) had missed 3 clear chances beforehand.

Still has erratic end product in the games I've seen him play for Bayern this season.

That being said, Congrats to Lucho on the title win. Shooting fish in a barrel, for sure.

20 Apr 2026 19:55:36
In the PL, the last 5 years there have been 2 winners (City 80%).

Spain last 5 years 3 winners.

Germany last 5 years 2 winners (Bayern 80%).

Portugal last 5 years 3 winners.

Italy last 5 years 3 winners.

Must be a nightmare for fans watching those other one sided leagues.

20 Apr 2026 17:25:48
Bournemouth announce Leipzig manager Marco Rose will take over from Iraola in the summer. Wonder where Iraola will go if he doesn't return home.

20 Apr 2026 18:26:16
I meant former Leipzig manager.

20 Apr 2026 19:41:02
Keegan, it will be very interesting to see where Iraola will land next season.

21 Apr 2026 00:21:44
My ideal would be Alonso in with Slot, Hughes, and Edwards gone. Alonso gets a big say on transfers.

However, if Hughes and Edwards stay, and Alonso won't come because of that, then bring in Iraola.

20 Apr 2026 17:51:57
Evening all.

Lots of talk on here at the mo about ITK's getting grief about posting rumours.

The only little snippet of a rumour i ever posted was years ago about Brad Smith.

Small rumour in the big scheme of things but it did turn out to be true.

When i posted it i did wonder if it was true, would the circumstances change, were people interested? But i posted anyway as it was a Rumour site and without posters and ITK's there would be no forum. It's like a community. I have seen jokes, #£@# Taking, support for people, and of course the Ed's. None of which would exist without rumours.

You don't have to believe anything people post, but it does not mean you have the right to judge or critisize someone who posts rumours.

We have thefeilds, carra, VV, Window cleaner and Regular posters to numorous to mention. Just sit back and enjoy.

I do.

20 Apr 2026 18:39:27
Good post, Wiltshire, I fully agree. If you treat everything as a rumour, then you've no reason to get angry at someone if it doesn't materialize, and no reason to call someone out for it. We could all use a lil less anger in the world, even if it's just the world of Liverpool rumours.

20 Apr 2026 18:41:19
I love it when we get a rumour. Such a rest from all the other stuff that's become quite tiresome.

20 Apr 2026 19:42:53
Exactly, Rugby. I have no idea why people get so hung up on these things, to the point of getting angry at posters. It's a rumours page, is it not?

20 Apr 2026 17:32:50
Ed033 can we do a poll on.

Slot to stay

Slot to go

Don't mind

Thank you

{Ed033's Note -


Slot Poll

20 Apr 2026 17:39:06
Is this for if or when he loses to Palace on Saturday?

20 Apr 2026 17:46:57
After being a supporter of him getting time to change early on in the season, since about November, I have been wondering how on earth he has managed to keep his job.

20 Apr 2026 17:52:03
🤣 Another knee slapper from Florian. How does he come up with this stuff week in week out?! We're in the presence of comedy genius.

20 Apr 2026 18:29:16
We had a poll few weeks back. Forgot the % but hardly anyone wanted Slot to stay, apart from the obvious ones.

20 Apr 2026 18:37:53
A Slot troll. 😆 I'm probably full of "toxic positivity" as well, am I?

20 Apr 2026 18:43:53
Toxic positivity, forced optimism, false hope, denial, delusion... you could apply many terms... Personally, I have a soft spot for "Florian's Tyranny of Positivity", good title for a book.

20 Apr 2026 19:46:23
Strom, just voted Slot Out and it is 92% saying he should go.

Clearly, for some in our fan base, that is a minority.

20 Apr 2026 19:58:27
Not clear of the question.
Is this "now" or "at the end of the season"?
Is this our prediction or our wishes?

Me, I think he should go in the summer.
Zero point in sacking him now.

20 Apr 2026 20:02:24
The question is who voted stay. Or, as Kent Brockman would say, there is a 5% margin of error.

20 Apr 2026 20:17:21
Let's take it one game at a time FM.

Sorry Ed033 you'll be flat out. 😂

20 Apr 2026 21:12:00
Wat even is a Slot troll? And how can an LFC be one? 😆

20 Apr 2026 22:11:01
Oli, I thought it would have been more. Wonder who kept voting for him to stay hahah.

{Ed025's Note - maybe 100 Florians Strom ?.. :)

20 Apr 2026 23:16:44
Ed025, definitely hahah

21 Apr 2026 06:40:50
Better things to be doing i'm afraid Ed😆

{Ed025's Note - just a bit of bants mate.. :)

21 Apr 2026 09:54:27
And we all need a bit of that. 😁

20 Apr 2026 16:10:39
Just a thought. How would people feel if this happens?
Man City win the league, Guardiola decides to leave on a high. We manage to finish in the top five, maybe even 4th. The club decides to stick with Slot and Alonso joins Man City. Iraola takes over Man Utd as some have speculated.

Hoeness goes to Chelsea maybe. Guess what it boils down to is the board if they keep Slot have to be 100% sure he can turn things around, because if we get to October and things so badly, options then will very thin.

20 Apr 2026 16:42:30
How would we feel? Angry, frustrated, disappointed, apathetic, depressed, cynical, pessimistic? Probably some other negative feelings I have missed.

20 Apr 2026 16:52:39
I'd be genuinely interested in how much if the fan base wants Slot to continue. We seem pretty unanimous on here, most social media stuff is similar & match going fans seem apathetic, to say the least, in support of him.
If discontent is as widespread as it appears, surely FSG & LFC board cannot simply ignore it.

Yes, it's their decision & they will do what they think is right, but if your customers want change & are unhappy, they'd be wise not to ignore it..... especially with what they see on the pitch - surely they can't look at performances & results on the pitch & go mmm more of that please.

20 Apr 2026 16:55:18
If Pep leaves City and joins us that would be majestic.

20 Apr 2026 17:15:38
Pep leaves, Kompany replaces him and Alonso goes to Bayern. Wouldn't surprise me.

20 Apr 2026 17:27:49
U just created the absolute mother of all worst case scenarios, cos LFC would really have no real quality managers out there to take on the mantle.


The only thing I want to know is if every fan can see that getting new players won't change how LFC play, as the manager has shown that. Why can't they see it?

20 Apr 2026 17:25:05
It's very easy to have opinions skewed by what we hear here, as certainly when it comes to Slot, we are a bit of an echo chamber.

Not sure about the rest of you, but my Liverpool banter fix is, 90% of the time, on here.

When I speak to my Liverpool supporting mates, no one is as anti-Slot as I am (now).

So, in answer to Nutter's question, my experience seems to imply that the unanimity that we (generally) show on here that we want Slot gone is not representative of the wider fan base.

Why? Well we have people who go to every game, plus the Eds, give their informed opinion here, whereas the vast majority of Liverpool fans around the world may watch the odd game and look at the results.

20 Apr 2026 17:55:41
With all due respect, Zedd, I don't think any attention should be paid to the opinions of fans who tune in for the odd game. The consensus from pundits and ex-pros tends to align more with what's shared on here as opposed to the casual fan base.

20 Apr 2026 18:33:29
Zed, when we played Leeds n drew I was watching it in the Lakes with a fellow scouser, n I was saying Slot has to go n he was adamant that it was too early, at the end of the game he was shaking his head n laughing, I think even the die hards want him gone now.

20 Apr 2026 19:21:27
Slot wants to leave himself.

20 Apr 2026 19:21:44
Nagelsmann.

20 Apr 2026 19:26:45
All the talk is Maresca is lined up to take over from Pep.

20 Apr 2026 19:47:43
OP, that would be absolutely infuriating.

20 Apr 2026 21:24:52
Chewy, I agree. But Nutter asked whether all fans want him to go. I was giving a reason why that probably isn't the case. Not die hard fans like us, but most Liverpool supporting folks.... 👍

20 Apr 2026 14:57:40
Ed, I know you're not keen on answering finance questions but if I might be able to ask you one please. When a player signs a new contract with their club, they obviously in most cases get a pay rise but would they also get a lump sum on top of that. Take konate for instance.

I'm assuming his wage will now go to around 200k per week if not more
Would he also get a lump sum of say x amount of million on top of that and would it be the responsibility of the player or the club to pay the agent who negotiated the deal on the players behalf. TIA

{Ed001's Note - they get what is called a signing fee but that is spread over the length of their contract. The player pays his agent a %age of his salary, usually 20%, that is the standard agent's cut.}

20 Apr 2026 15:30:37
Thanks. 👍

20 Apr 2026 15:23:09
20% of his salary? That is incredible. Is that normal across sports?
Ed, do any dialed-in footballers handle their own negotiations?

{Ed001's Note - it is normal across all agents in all forms of business. You have to remember that an agent will also employ a team of people, as well as having other clients (usually - Salah's lawyer, who acts as his agent though refuses to be called one, works pretty much only for Mo). But it is the standard in showbusiness etc, or any industry where an agent is used as a go between.}

20 Apr 2026 17:00:15
Lowe, KDB negotiated his final contract with City without an agent.