Text Size Adjuster: 18px 22 Sep 2026 17:58:01 In order to view all of today's banter, you may have to visit our Liverpool banter 2 to Liverpool banter 10 pages linked at the bottom of this page.
22 Sep 2026 17:37:28
Just watched an interview with Arsene Wenger he made on a panel before the legendary come back at home against Barcelona. When asked about his thoughts on the game.
He said,
“… they’ve not one the championship for 30 years [pre Klopp and Slot winning] but they do well in Europe - why?
Anfield!
Home game. This is the most heated stadium in Europe in a return game. That’s the only place you don’t want to go is to Anfield because of the atmosphere, everything is special there, you know. And so we will - I’m keen - to see what they do tonight.”
The rest is history.
Question: why is Anfield not like this for Premiership games?
22 Sep 2026 11:32:31
Good news on Leoni, he's back training and will play a couple of games with the u-21's in the international break. CB seems sorted. In another news 26 of our players have left for international duty leaving almost no one for AI to work with!
9
22 Sep 2026 11:53:32
Great to hear re Leoni. I actually love that there's an opportunity for some kids to shine while the lads are away. Hopefully Andoni takes more interest in the academy than Arne did and rather than flying home, he might uncover a hidden gem in the pile.
Seems to have trouble trusting youth which is great to see, a lot of coaches wouldn't have turned to Koumas and Nyoni on Sunday when defending a 1 goal lead but I love to see it. If you're good enough you're old enough!
10
22 Sep 2026 13:12:10
Best of luck to the lad. Can't have been easy to get injured like that on your debut, especially as a young lad in a new environment (club and country).
Look forward to seeing him get his career back on track.
2
22 Sep 2026 13:16:23
Good news that. I think all us supporters are looking forward to seeing him on the pitch again. especially beside Jacquet.
3
22 Sep 2026 13:24:26
YNWA YLFP.
5
22 Sep 2026 16:02:05
Obviously meant to write seems to have no trouble trusting youth but left out the no 🙈😂.
1
22 Sep 2026 16:59:54
Be great to see Leoni back on the grass, for me he looks fantastic.
I thought he looked an absolute gem when he was playing, looked like he just glided across the turf. Good luck and hopefully see you soon!!
22 Sep 2026 08:48:44
I've seen Slot defended in the past under in his 2 seasons he won the league and got CL. If he had done that in reverse order then that's progression, unfortunately he didn't and it was clearly regression.
Under Ai performances haven't been great but we've had 3 cleans sheets and for me performances have been better (apart from Fulham) than last season so whilst it's still early days it's progression.
Ultimately Ai will be judged on final league position at the end of the season on whether the club have progressed or not.
CL is another big one and domestic cups a bonus.
7
22 Sep 2026 09:04:51
They don't need to be compared. Personally I don't see much improvement in the performances but it's only been a few games. I'm fully confident in Iraola. The start was always going to be the hardest part. I can only see us improving under him.
4
22 Sep 2026 09:29:59
The defence looks good. Am pretty happy with the team as long as the defence is tight and teams have to really work hard to score against us.
Its not always about breathtaking football. I won't mind to shore up the defence and be very difficult to score against even if that means less entertaining and dross games. don't mind the 1-0 at all.
The problem lies in the midfield and the sooner AI realised he needs to give trey a go the better. Macca has been good and back to his usual self so he is my second midfielder. Gravy on rotation duties
Upfront barcola isak and gackpo look pretty much the first picks with rio munoz and koumas rotation duties
That leaves us with wirtz or szobo as the 10 or pivot and the sooner AI picks one the better.
Pretty clear both of them in the squad affect the balance and is not the best team.
1
22 Sep 2026 09:37:08
Agree with Florian but there are good signs that certain individuals are upping their game - Gakpo, Vyrgil & Mac have been tonnes better & Issac is putting his chances away.
I'm hoping Jurgen can give Wirtz a bit of a confidence boost while he's away and Iraola can get him performing!
3
22 Sep 2026 09:54:57
Virg just isn't having to babysit people as much this season. Silly to ever doubt that man.
5
22 Sep 2026 10:17:56
Gakpo has been best player so far and doesn't deserve to be moved so Barcola can be involved. Only do that when his form drops.
4
22 Sep 2026 10:24:15
I've been very vocal in my criticism of Virgil Florian. Rather than him babysitting anyone in my opinion he's been the main issue for the past 12 months and the rest of the team have been babysitting him.
The one thing Iraola has done is getting him and the rest of the back 4 to defend higher up and defend on the front foot. It's the biggest change he's made and it's very noticeable.
Look at the Newcastle game where Virgil backed off until he was in his own box for both goals. The last few games he's been engaging on the halfway line as have the rest of the back 4. They are tighter to the opposition and getting in front of them as they receive the ball. If they don't win the ball they are fouling to stop the break.
Fair play to Virgil because he's taken it onboard. I had started to think his legs had gone and he was so terrified of people getting in behind him that the only thing he could do was retreat.
It caused massive issues with the connection between the defence and midfield and opened up a big gap which gave the midfield no chance of getting close to people no matter who was playing.
We are now winning the ball earlier and getting it to the forwards with more space to play but they are misfiring. They still seem to lack confidence and invariably either choose the wrong pass or take too long to play the right pass.
It's a work in progress but I can see incremental improvements in the team structure and connections between the lines. It's not there yet but hopefully will get there.
5
22 Sep 2026 10:47:18
Rios, where was the rest of the our team when Newcastle broke from well inside their half and van Dijk ended inside his own box for their goals?
1
22 Sep 2026 10:49:41
Certainly for the 2nd goal vs Newcastle Virgil was right to back off. i think there was 6 LFC players vs their 2 and I don't think he can be blamed for thinking if he delayed the attack our numerical advantage would end the danger.
Lets not make out he's never did this. He's done it as far back as the famous incident vs Spurs at Anfield. No one minded then. i couldn't disagree with you more that Virgil has been the main problem but hey it's all about opinions I suppose.
3
22 Sep 2026 11:16:09
The point is Florian and Rigsby, Virgil and Jacquet were too deep to start with for both goals.
They were both just standing around on the halfway line marking nobody. Had one of them pushed on then when the ball pops out into midfield Osula is under pressure immediately and they can either win the ball or foul him to stop the attack.
Once he's turned and running at them they are in trouble and it's something that happened time and time again last season.
Front foot defending. Get tighter and be aggressive. Don't allow them to turn, stay closer to the rest of the team and close spaces.
Even if they had just managed to hold Osula up for a few seconds or made him pass backwards it gives the rest of the team a chance to get back goal side.
But standing 20 yards off him marking nobody gives you no chance of affecting the play and once he's got the ball under control and running at you you've got no choice but the back off.
It should've been dealt with way before they started to retreat but because our defending has been so passive and reactionary we've allowed stupid amounts of space in front of the back 4 and allowed players to pick up the ball and run at us.
Most will say that's because we don't have a DM. that's just too simplistic in my opinion because if the spaces are that big no DM is going to be able to cover the ground anyway. Any DM will just be cannon fodder.
Anyway, that's my observations and I'm glad Iraola has spotted it because as I said, the change is very noticeable.
2
22 Sep 2026 11:48:04
When wises gets the ball he's 80 yards away from our goal if not further, and Willock is even further away. Elanga had pulled out to the left and at that stage especially after the 1st goal was maybe the more immediate danger.
Maybe Virg and Konate thought that the 3 LFC players surrounding Wissa when he picks up the ball was more than sufficient to deal with him. That goal should never have happened but Van Dijk would not get the most blame from me.
0
22 Sep 2026 12:27:27
I think Virgil is really enjoying being able to sit back and let Jacquet handle things this year, he even defers to Jacquet a lot to get the ball forward lately.
0
22 Sep 2026 12:27:45
I feel like our press is deliberately suppressed at the moment. In pre season we saw us playing with a full press and going into a lead but the players were completely gassed before half time and the team then fell apart late in games. I think we are doing the sensible thing of making ourselves solid and hard to beat whilst building up the insane fitness levels needed to carry out the full AI press. It will take time and over the next few months I think we will see an increase in pace and pressing which will hopefully massively help the 4 up top excel.
The midfield balance is the only real concern for me. Szobo, Macca and Grav are all too attack minded to sit deep and control games. Although he looks to be 3rd choice at the moment I think Grav is probably best suited if (very big if) he can go back to the disciplined way that he played a couple of seasons ago. I'd be interested to see how a pairing of Nyoni and Grav performs (maybe against Chelsea in the league cup) but my suspicion is that we will see Grav or Macca leave and be replaced with somebody who can add a bit more balance to the midfield.
Overall though, a positive start and a good foundation to build on.
0
22 Sep 2026 12:38:56
I agree with FM.
On the second goal the midfield was more at fault than van Dijk. Grav gives the ball away and Szob and Wirtz were too soft. Wissa, I think, beats them both!
There's more of an argument against for the first goal. But, again, Grav gives the ball away and I think the pace of Elanga catches van Dijk (and Kerkez) out.
0
22 Sep 2026 11:16:35
Positives are: 1) We are clearly fitter than last season, 2) Araujo, Jacquet and a better Macca have added more enthusiasm for sticking a foot in and 3) the youngsters are being trusted to come off the bench.
Negatives are: 1) the squad gaps are clear as day, 2) midfield balance is lacking and 3) the press is still a work in progress.
Davey, banking on Gravenberch becoming a focused, diligent and effective DM is borderline delusion. He's the biggest fairy in the squad.
2
22 Sep 2026 13:57:37
Rio - Spoken like a true CB. Kudos.
At the end of the day, no matter what your MF does the buck stops with the defence and GK. I going to keep going in about this but clean sheets win you titles.
2
22 Sep 2026 14:21:30
Fm i wasn't meaning to compare them i was talking about progression and regression and used both as an example.
However if i wanted to compare them on the World Wide Web mate i don't need a stranger telling me what i can and can't do.
0
22 Sep 2026 16:33:26
As things stand no way he routinely benches Wirtz or Szoboslai for Nyoni. Too much talent there to sit on the bench, both have quality to win a game on their own. I do agree however, that the balance is off with both playing essentially the same style of player. With the money invested I just don't see the club sitting either of them longterm.
All wirtz needs to do is sit and watch coutinho clips on repeat.
Drop deep for the ball - take a man on dribble past and find the spaces and shoot. He has possibly more ability than coutinho. He has the same frame as coutinho.
He can do a lot better than coutinho.
For some reason he is trying to play technical passes and be cute and hold the ball!
No need just express - dribble run stepovers and shoot from distance. He has the talent for all that and he did all that at Leverkusen.
He needs to become a problem and he needs to score 2-3 from distance so teams know they can't just sit on him. People have to rundown to close him and that opens space for those cute passes
People have got it wrong its not the physical aspect its not the skill. Its the IQ. When they don't let you play your game dribble past find space and shoot.
I remember this with coutinho when he joined he was weak, got bullied and lost a lot of balls and we had that horrible brendan season. Then klopp happened and he had that freedom to do whatever he wants play where the game takes him and shoot from wherever he feels like.
And then he scored some bangers and the confidence of that lit a fire that made him the best player we had and bought us money that we are still spending 🤑.
7
22 Sep 2026 06:33:04
He has nowhere near as much ability as Coutinho.
9
22 Sep 2026 07:03:43
Coutinho was a baller, Things he did with the ball was sublime, Wirtz isn't close. We are going to spend the whole season excusing wirtz with "no runners ahead of him". The fact is we need to accept he has flopped massiveley and needs to be sold.
5
22 Sep 2026 07:07:53
Don't be ridiculous.
9
22 Sep 2026 07:58:21
I don't think Wirtz is able to move like that, coutinho wasn't quick but he tuned and moved with ball effortlessly and had a wicked shot on him.
I'm not sure what it is with Wirtz to be honest as I actually think the skill is there but he's not showing it on the pitch. How many times has he hit the ball and he has less power than a kid.
I'd imagine he's the best player in training but can't replicate it on match day.
Maybe it's nerves. Maybe the actual match is too quick for him, sometimes it just doesn't work.
Did anyone actually watch him in Germany? I bet you'd be surprised by what you actually saw. His goals and assists were a lot higher but did he actually ever run a game of football? He definitely didn't when we played them with slot, we won comfortably in fact I don't remember Wirtz doing anything at all.
Be good if someone did watch him over there that knows.
0
22 Sep 2026 08:40:00
Coutinho was a highlights player. He had ability, but ultimately did not do enough for the team in the 90 minutes, especially off the ball.
We improved when he left.
13
{Ed025's Note - im with you Taurus, a lot of people have selective memory mate..
3
22 Sep 2026 08:49:33
Coutinho, and the team, thrived best when he playing as part of the front three. Not as much as the center point of a three man midfield.
0
22 Sep 2026 08:50:37
Wirtz isn't even highlights player Taurus.
3
22 Sep 2026 09:07:00
So far Wirtz should be compared more to Luis Garcia or Benayoun than Philippe Coutinho.
2
22 Sep 2026 09:15:18
Thats why i say see those clips. See what coutinho did. Then ask if he can do it why can't I.
Essentially coutinho had same problem when he joined but he was a bargain basement signing and nobody had expectations so i didn't bother us. Plus we had suarez firing on all cylinders so coutinho was not the main guy
Wirtz is huge price and supposed to be the main guy.- that is why i dint believe in 100m ++ players. They never work.
Not one 100+m player has ever worked not even one not for any club bar maybe ronaldo.
Not even one.
Yet big clubs keep making these signings.
0
22 Sep 2026 09:26:32
I have been living in Germany for the past three years, and the way Bundesliga fans revere him is how PL fans revere Gerrard.
However, Wirtz is more of a high volume player than a big moments player. At Leverkusen, everything went through him, and to be honest he was very good at running the games. He would drop deep, float all over the pitch, make nice touches, keep the ball moving, and find nice passes to the wing-backs. However, he was not a highlights reel player even in Bundesliga. While he can sometime score good long range goals, he doesn't have the technique/power of Dom. While his first touch and ball control is elite, he can't get past people while dribbling like Coutinho or Rogers because he doesn't have that acceleration. While he is a good passer, he is not like Trent. The issue is that the team really needs to be built around him to maximize his talents. And it is very different to how in PL the star players are generally who also have the biggest moments. I think all of this would have been much less of an issue had he been able to show his abilities consistently for us. Right now he looks so short of confidence that even the things that he is undeniably elite at (first touch, manipulating space, etc) seem to be deserting him. I can only hope that Iraola and Klopp together can help him shine. He seems like a nice lad and I really want him to do well.
3
{Ed025's Note - sometimes TKA you just have to admit you signed a lemon mate..
2
22 Sep 2026 09:34:00
Personally I think Florian would be better if he was playing as part of a three with us no matter who the other two were. i know it's a mute point because Iraola doesn't play that way and the thinking behind it is to get him close to Isak but I just think he's getting too isolated up there.
Its like we're playing with a from two.
1
22 Sep 2026 10:28:49
Wirtz needs to get in the gym, he's brushed off the ball so easily.
1
22 Sep 2026 10:39:48
He's not a lemon, has loads of ability, we just need to see it.
1
{Ed025's Note - if its yellow, looks like a lemon and smells like a lemon then its usually a lemon Ecogsi...admitting it seems to be the problem mate..
1
22 Sep 2026 10:50:47
Watching videos of Coutinho is a genius idea. I wonder why no one thought of that before. Just let him watch videos of Coutinho, download it into his brain, and we'd have a Coutinho regen in our team. Maybe we should let all our forwards watch videos of Messi while we're at it too so that we'd truly have a world class forward line ;)
1
22 Sep 2026 11:58:12
I think you might have the wrong kind of idea of the kind of player Wirtz is, OP, thekoparmy is pretty spot on in his description of the player. Wirtz is a combination/connection kind of player who links things up all across the left side of the opposition half. You need a functioning midfield, a left back that combines with him and a forward (the way Schick and Wirtz worked together rotating up front was a work of art) who works with him for him to be the kind of player that he can be.
I very much agree that Wirtz looks a player short of confidence and that the criticism looks like it's going to his head and affecting him, he hasn't been anywhere near as good as he can be in critical moments. Still he does keep trying and doesn't let a poor start affect him to the point of just giving up for the rest of the game, he continues showing for the ball everywhere, running non-stop off the ball, making the kinds of runs off the ball to make space for others that he needs to. So you can say that he is lacking in confidence for sure, but at the same time he has the mentality and the awareness to do the basic things that a team player needs to do.
His understanding with Isak is actually incredibly poor right now, sometimes Isak wants the ball inside of the block and Wirtz pokes it around the defenders the other way around, and sometimes it's the reverse, they just never seem like they are on the same page. I expect that this will not always be the case, and it will invariably improve over time.
Yes Wirtz was very very poor against Bournemouth. At the same time if some of the very good chances he created the previous games were finished and if he had got at least one of the goals that he could very well have scored (such as the excellent finish from the assist by the borderline offside Frimpong) his numbers wouldn't actually be very shabby. I still think he is a top top player and he really needs to show it in a Liverpool shirt soon. I believe we will start to see a better version of him very soon though.
2
{Ed025's Note - hmmmm..
0
22 Sep 2026 12:05:10
Find it funny people say Coutinho was only good under klopp which is a straight up Lie, the kid was Brilliant from his 1st game under BR and scored and assisted a lot in his 1st 6 months at the club.
Also Coutinho cost 8 million £ not 110 million +. Right now Coutinho was twice the player Wirtz is but it could change if Wirtz starts doing something sometime soon maybe 🙏.
0
22 Sep 2026 13:13:47
Ahh."if only". those 2 words are becoming a regular feature when analysing Wirtz. if only he did this. if only the others did that. if only he tied his laces tighter..
0
22 Sep 2026 14:21:10
Last fan of Slot, I'd argue Rice and Caicedo have justified their price tags with what they've brought to their respective teams (granted Chelsea have been a mess, but Caicedo hasn't)
0
22 Sep 2026 16:09:59
@shanklys ghost I think what we expect from Wirtz will never happen. By we, I mean the English media. He is just not that player, never was even at Leverkusen. He is not a highlights reel player, he is and has always been a system player. He can't win you matches alone, but as he showed at Leverkusen, in the right system he can make you win matches consistently.
Maybe the penny will never drop for him in PL, but I sincerely hope that it does, because I would really love him to shine for us. In the right environment he raises the floor of the team significantly, just because of how a high volume player he is.
0
22 Sep 2026 16:47:52
We just need 9 other outfield players then to compliment Wirtz by the sounds.
1
22 Sep 2026 17:40:01
Sounding like that to me too JK.
22 Sep 2026 05:26:38
When dom goes through a period of not scoring, which he will as all players do, what will he offer?
This is a genuine question.
His passing is fairly average and not better than macca really. He does have high stamina to run about but he can't press or tackle and rarely wins duels which makes him a passenger when defending.
I think his goals often gloss over the rest of his tool kit which is fairly limited. He also tends to leave big gaps due to his runs up front. He reminds me of Patrick berger in that sense, another player with a hammer shot who scored rockets all the time but didn't offer much else.
I think if we want to try and find space for both Dom and wirtz then we do need a high energy DM who can mark, press and tackle. There's honestly not many around.
I honestly think a season playing right wing might be a big benefit to both Dom and the team. We have nobody that can play there and it would help to teach him positional discipline the same way it did Gerrard.
Just my two cents.
10
22 Sep 2026 06:29:42
Gakpo has been our best forward player so far.
5
22 Sep 2026 07:05:25
He runs a lot which got him "He was the best player" award last season from the posters. He is henderson with a better technique.
2
22 Sep 2026 07:35:25
He can and does press.
1
22 Sep 2026 08:24:08
jesus when a player has a bad game or two the knives are out Wirtz I understand but Dom?
1
22 Sep 2026 08:48:36
Henderson was a better footballer than Szobo.
1
22 Sep 2026 08:53:40
Wirtz is offering nothing but running and seems to be getting a pass.
So I'll go with that - lots of effort and running.
These scenarios are fun.
0
22 Sep 2026 09:08:45
Totally different players.
0
22 Sep 2026 09:15:55
Corners and set pieces.
0
22 Sep 2026 09:31:38
Problem we have in midfield is the best midfielder we have is the only one not on a long contract 😂
The worst one gets paid the most, make it make sense.
0
22 Sep 2026 12:08:13
Dom is a very good presser, but he is a very poor ball winner. This is why he was so good leading the press from the front from the number 10 position. I would say that the number 10 is actually probably his best position, though he has said his favorite position is as a deep lying midfielder. That being said though, he was good in the number 10 because the real number 10 in our side the title winning season was Mo, and Dom effectively played like Hendo did with Mo on the right side, forming triangles with the fullback on the right with Mo coming into the right half space like a 10.
I would also add that I think Dom is really good at carrying the ball upfield, but when he gets into advanced positions his decision making is often not the best, and he doesn't have the ability to execute an incisive pass. He actually has a very good range of passing but he needs time to pick a pass and is very average at hitting those passes quick and first time from midfield. Which is why he could make better use of that from the right back position.
He is one of the best free kick takers in Europe and his delivery from a dead ball is frequently very good, so that's a plus. I also don't think he is as poor at winning duels on average than he is made out to be, but he can also turn in wretched performances in that regard like the 1 duel won against Fulham. He has a lot to do to prove that he is one of the premier midfielders in Europe, I'm sure he believes that he is in that tier of players and it's good to be confident, but surely he should know there is huge space for him to improve.
21 Sep 2026 22:33:11
To the szobo 10 talk. What goddamn player have people seen play over the past three years. Dom can run he can shoot and he can pass over long distances. He is a worse version of Valverde. A limited player that would best be a water carrier at RB or CM in a 4 3 3.
Ask Dom to create anything and he can't. He couldn't in Leipzig he can't here. Sadly Wirtz will end up like De bruyne at Chelsea and he will be a city player in 5 years because cherki can't run. Please people be patient and don't get impressed by Everton fans like Carragher.
7
22 Sep 2026 00:13:01
well he runs around like Wirtz. I'm sure he can at least do the one thing that Wirtz is capable of.
0
22 Sep 2026 01:11:47
Szoboszlai would be great on the right of a three man midfield, unfortunately Iraola has never played that way. Szoboszlai isn't good enough to play in a two man midfield or as a number 10.
Wirtz has an infinitely higher ceiling than Szoboszlai and is worth preserving with. Dropping him for Szoboszlai is like giving up on your dream girl to go back to the ex that you don't like.
3
22 Sep 2026 01:07:38
If Szobo is so good in the No. 10 position, why would we go out and spend £116m on Wirtz then? I don't think anyone who works in football recruitment professionally would advise the club to spend that kind of money on someone who primarily plays as a No. 10 if they genuinely thought Szobo was already good enough in the same position.
I know Hughes might not be very good at his job, but come on, even he can't possibly be that stupid. Surely even he would realise that spending £116m on a player for a position where we supposedly already have a top-class option would be a bit ridiculous.
0
22 Sep 2026 01:34:59
No idea where you stand on Dom, you went from praising his abilities to calling him a water boy in one sentence. I know some people like to 'ride the fence' but that's the most aggressive form of it I've ever seen, fairplay.
Obviously you haven't actually been watching Cherki, he would run rings around Wirtz at the moment. Why would city want Wirtz for his running abilities in 5 years when he's 28 and not even a good runner now? What is this twilight zone of a post.
3
22 Sep 2026 05:31:01
Tô an extent I agree. Dom can smash a banger that's for sure. But I've never seen him demonstrate consistent long range passing like VVD, Trent or even macca to be honest.
He has high energy but then is awful at pressing and can't tackle so his high energy isn't really useful on defence.
His crossing is decent and he can get about the pitch a lot, for me he should play RW.
2
22 Sep 2026 06:36:14
It's crazy that the worse Wirtz performs Dom seems to get crapper and crapper as a player on here. i wonder why?
2
22 Sep 2026 07:51:35
FM, my theory is that defending Wirtz is simply attacking another player. Whataboutism.
People struggle to find positives so resort to criticising another or other players.
That said, I think the criticism and defending of players very often goes too far on here.
I definitely think ego (posters') comes into it. I'm no different and I find myself defending our players, some that I don't even rate, to fans of other teams!
1
22 Sep 2026 08:49:20
I can understand defending to other teams fans but we are all LFC fans here. Deep down we all want EVERY player to play out of his skins every game. But just be honest about it when they are and when they aren't. For example I agree with what Carragher was saying about LFC fans convincing themselves Wirtz does be playing well. They are so longing for him to work out, and I get that. But the truth is he is really struggling and it's not just about what other players aren't doing.
Now I'm seeing posts saying he needs until the end of the season. Really? Two seasons to settle? if it was another teams fanbase we'd think it was hilarious. Thats where Dom comes in. With the common consensus being that the two of them may not work in the same team some fans are now attacking Dom. He was our best player last year.25 g/a from MF. Granted hasn't started well this season but still at least has a few goals. I know who I would rather play against from the two.
1
22 Sep 2026 10:30:41
FM, I agree with most of that but what I mean about ego is that a lot of people will attack Szobozslai and others rather than admit they *could* be wrong about Wirtz.
It's not really about Wirtz. If they've nailed their colours to the Wirtz mast and he isn't performing it becomes personal.
It was the same with Nunez.
We all get it wrong. I thought Baros was going to be good, argued in his favour but ended up with egg on my chops 😁.
0
22 Sep 2026 11:57:34
I see what you mean Rigsby. Having not watched much of Wirtz in Germany I can only judge him by what he does for us. I find it very easy to judge him on that sample size. He's been a disappointment. No two ways about it. If he doesn't pick up his game he'll be back in Fermany with Bayern by next summer.
0
22 Sep 2026 12:22:18
Wow when are you reds going stop complaining first about VVD then Gravenberch, then Wirtz and now Sboz. We are getting every man and his dog telling how the team should play or the team the coach should pick some of you think that you can do better than the coaching staff.
The problem ìs you have been spoiled by Klopp and now you all are PlayStation managers. Just get behind the players and the coaches and the club you are becoming like that shower down the east lancs road. YNWA.
22 Sep 2026 01:14:25
Getting the defence working was the priority for Iraola and he's done it brilliantly. The attack can wait. Look at Xabi Alonso, he appears to have done the opposite and Chelsea can't stop shipping goals. If you can keep a clean sheet you can win any game.
21 Sep 2026 18:10:41
Who agrees with the negative comments about Wirtz from Carra?
Seems to me that he makes a living out of slating us. He never stops.
Personally it's too early to judge him. I know he struggles at times but the whole team is currently adapting to this new high energy style after the crap Slot had them playing and I think he'll come good especially when Hugo Palindrome is back.
15
21 Sep 2026 18:36:09
I agreed with what Carragher said.
11
21 Sep 2026 18:41:47
I can't stand him, but the jury's out on Wirtz, he'll get the full season before I start passing judgement. I'll be more concerned with what he can do in the new year after everyone's had a little time to adopt Iraolas style, from what we saw at Bournemouth, we're still a long way off even being capable of implementing it effectively.
There's no doubt Wirtz is under a microscope thouh, with the cost and hype that surrounded him, he will have to start proving his worth at some stage. The best can go out there and do it (on a cold wet night in stoke) no matter who's around them, they can adapt and produce because they have confidence in their abilities and we're not seing that from Wirtz, he has a lot to do in order to prove it; if he doesn't produce the goods, the excuses will cease to wash.
12
21 Sep 2026 18:43:52
Me too Rome. simple fact is had he cost £35m then he would have been benched long ago. His confidence is shot to ribbons and to me he looks like a lad who just hasn't settled here in England at all. Even with his cheerleader pingpong he looks a little boy lost.
I take no pleasure in it, we all want LFC players to be brilliant but he's on borrowed time, I hope he finds a way as we look completely unbalanced with him starting and losing possession constantly 🤷♂️.
8
21 Sep 2026 18:45:27
I think what Carra said is harsh and I very much doubt Wirtz pays any attention to it and will be getting all his advice from Ai.
However I do disagree that it's too early to judge. He's been with the club now for 14 months and 8 of those months he played with Ekitike.
I'm still confident Wirtz will hit the heights. But I wouldn't bet a substantial amount of money on it.
5
21 Sep 2026 18:56:05
I'm desperate for him to come good, JK, but if I were a betting man, I'd wager he'll be gone next summer.
9
21 Sep 2026 18:58:36
He needs dropping for a bit. Can't pass. The ball is bouncing off him. He's ruining the team in all honesty
Pull him out of the fire, and use him as a sub for a bit.
5
21 Sep 2026 19:14:44
A solid CM to protect the defence, give some stability and let the midfield play and go forward with confidence is a must in January. That would help Wirtz play with more freedom.
6
21 Sep 2026 19:19:56
On Wirtz in happy to get my drum out and bang it again
He can't do what he's best at whilst we continue to pair two behind him that aren't defensively minded
I'm not 100% sure but didn't Xhaka and Andrich play centre mid and alllowed Wirtz to focus more on attacking contributions.
6
21 Sep 2026 19:24:42
Aye, don't mention Wirtz but it's ok to keep slagging off Slot.
3
21 Sep 2026 19:26:34
I hope you're right, HH, but to me it's excuse after excuse. Last season it was all down to Slot. To me, top players step up to the plate regardless of who's around them. Wirtz, up till now, hasn't come anywhere near to doing that. Personally, I'd bench him for City, but I doubt if that will happen.
6
21 Sep 2026 19:42:29
What about Szoboslai and how unsuited he is to playing in central midfield? He had given the ball away 81 times this season, can't tackle, can't track his man.
3
21 Sep 2026 19:20:25
I don't think any meaningful analysis of Iraola's team can be done until perhaps Easter time. The biggest issue with the club at the moment is the amount of bellyaching coming from Carragher, it's truly cringeworthy, I get it that he's doing if for self promotion and clicks, but he's moving further and further away from being a Liverpool supporter.
Fact is, the results really don't matter, the performances are going to be patchy, new players need to connect with their teammates and the fans need to learn what the bosses master plan is. All this takes a long time, much more than 7 games.
We need to chill out and enjoy the journey, remember Jurgen's first group of games were pretty mixed.
Fans need to be just that fans, if players are struggling, give them your support, that's what makes you fans. YNWA.
8
21 Sep 2026 20:00:26
White Duke, results do matter. If we don't get European football, next season, we are in a spot of bother.
Do you honestly think the biggest issue with the club is Carragher? Really? He's just an ex-player having his say. On this particular issue I happen to agree with him. Or, I like to think he agrees with me, except I don't have his platform.
Regards to giving support, I will continue to vent on here, like I've always done. Inside the ground every player gets my backing, intermingled with the odd moan and groan.
3
21 Sep 2026 19:57:06
I seems to me that Carragher is desperately trying to not be like Neville, who is generally totally delusional when it comes to Manchester United, but in doing so Carragher goes too far the other way and can be too reactionary and critical when it comes to Liverpool.
3
21 Sep 2026 20:02:00
I don't think I could ever agree with anything Carragher says. The guy is a crass, clueless, idiot. Why anyone would accept critique from such a person is beyond me.
Wirtz hasn't been what we wanted him to be so far but he is young and has time. I'm just hoping that whatever ridiculous criticisms Carragher wants to throw at him will only spur him on and he can one day ram them down his throat.
Carragher is literally everything that is wrong with the English football media. Sensationalist nonsense coming from a guy who doesn't have 2 brain cells to rub together.
10
21 Sep 2026 20:18:02
Im a big Wirtz cheerleader and have defended him so far. However he was really poor in the first half on Sunday. 'Ruining the team' is ridiculously harsh though. he's been better than some this season and was v good against Athletico. The pressure is really on him now and at the moment it looks like its crushing him rather than firing him up. I really hope he gets over this and starts showing what he's capable of because if he does he will make our attack frightening.
While I agree that playing in a team where if you lose the ball you instantly give a scoring chance to the opposition adds pressure and certainly isn't the best environment for a number 10 taking on a man or playing a tricky pass nor is having a lack of movement ahead of him that is not the reason that he couldn't control a rolled pass or find a team mate on sunday.
3
21 Sep 2026 22:13:01
He's at least putting in a lot of effort. So you can't drop him. If those around him put that much effort in then he would be racking up the assists.
3
21 Sep 2026 22:22:25
Rio, you're using Carragher to deflect away from how poor Wirtz has been. Like I've said, on this particular issue I agree with Carragher. I'm off to count my brain cells.
5
21 Sep 2026 22:32:09
Thin white, you told everyone to be fans and chill out and enjoy the journey then 22 minutes later you're giving it to Szob 🤣.
1
21 Sep 2026 22:39:50
I've no idea what he said because I don't listen to him.
2
21 Sep 2026 23:15:38
Firstly on Carra - do people really think he just says things for a reaction? I think there is an element to that, but generally a bit like with Roy, their personality are the type to have strong views and speak their mind. I've never got the sense from carra that what he's isn't something that he actually thinks.
On Wirtz - The bit I agree 100% is that what we are seeing is what Wirtz is. He is a nice player, lovely touches, clearly a world class talent. But the aspect of his personality and play style that he hasn't shown over 50+ games for the club is that real tenacity and street fighter mentality on the pitch. He plays like how he comes across in interviews and socials - timid, shy, polite, friendly.
So when Carra says that what we're seeing is what Wirtz is, I tend to agree with that.
In saying all that, it is true as well that all players (and humans) follow different development paths. So for Wirtz, if he doesn't find that inner Luis Suarez and add some bite to his game (pun fully intended), it may be that as his body strengthens and thickens into his mid-20s, that added natural physicality gives him confidence when he enters the pitch.
It might be that we see the best of Wirtz as he enters his mid-20s. Now for me, that would be ok, but I understand there is the pressure of expectations and patience is slim in football.
So that is a lot on Wirtz. How can we help him now?
We've taken some steps towards helping him by adding speed to the wings.
Triangle formation in midfield in theory should help him
Key to getting this right is how the 2 CMs play behind him and free him up to create.
Clearly the 2 CMs base is evolving and taking time to get better. But it will get better via time and recruitment
Wirtz needs to thicken up. I was a bit disappointed to see he came back looking as slender as he did last season. The boys needs thicker shoulders and it's fully doable without compromising his style of play. Hopefully the trainers are working on this with him.
Still hopeful for Wirtz because I can see his game IQ and creativity is of a high level. But the rest of his game (mentioned above) is compromising that. We are typically a very patient club and I hope we keep plugging away and look at the lifetime of his contract not just a season or two.
1
{Ed666's Note - Fabulous read that was mate. But I have to disagree I don’t think Wirtz needs to be a bully or a bruiser I just think the players around him need to make some runs and show movement. With regards to Carra I don’t think he says things for a reaction I think he believes what he says. I truly don’t believe Sky feeds him stuff to say.
2
22 Sep 2026 00:57:36
Carra has shown himself to be somewhat strongly opinionated on several points. I think he is naturally more critical of Liverpool because, like it or not, he knows the club and does want it to do well, and has a platform to vent, just like we do on here.
I don't hold him in high regard for working at Sky, but I also don't hate him like some do on here because I can't find anything to hate him for (save the spitting, embarrassing) that's objective.
He has his opinions and he's paid to talk about them. On this one particular topic, I agree with him, but I also would start Wirtz against City. If there is the player in their that we all hope their is, he's not going to show it unless he plays. If nothing changes by X-Mas though, yeah I'd drop him. Reminds me a lot of Ozil at Arsenal. Clearly talented, but perhaps not the best fit.
0
22 Sep 2026 01:25:16
Carra said Palmer reminded him of Gerrard and even called him the best player in the league during a season when Salah was putting up one of the best attacking seasons in Premier League history.
And yet, I don't remember him ever going after Palmer when Palmer was playing like trash. He does this all the time. Every season, he somehow manages to find a Liverpool player to throw under the bus and criticise nonstop. He did it with Salah, then Gakpo, and now he's found his next target.
And I can guarantee he'll do the same thing next season. Give him one Liverpool player to blame every season and he'll happily do the rest. The guy is a scam.
3
22 Sep 2026 05:40:02
The team being the 'finished item ' will never happen - any team you could care to mention can be improved. There seems to be four basic ways to improve a team:
1. Buy the best players you can to improve the quality of the squad
2. Hire a coach who can turn average players into good players and good players into the best in their positions in the game
3. Implement a style of play that works for the profile of the players at the clubs disposal
4 Apply one or more (ideally all 3) of the above.
So far I'd say there is clear evidence of the first two - albeit early days. The third one is also being worked on but is lagging behind a little and that is to be expected in light of the disarray we were in after the previous season and a half. What I will say is that AI's chosen style of play and personnel suggests he has faith in Wirtz. In my opinion I'm really pleased that he is doing so.
Wirtz has proved his class in Germany and for the national team. He hasn't shown what he can do for us but if you include Wirtz In steps 2 and 3 and give AI time to set up 4, there will be a lot of forum members who will be pleasantly surprised.
There are precedents - Jordan Henderson and Lucas Leiva as examples of players who weren't well received at the start of their Liverpool careers but they turned out to be ok. My money is on AI to turn us into PL and CL winners with Wirtz instrumental in the successes.
0
{Ed666's Note - I would just show Wirtz a reel of Carragher Lambasting him 20 mins bedore the city game..let him stew on that for a few moments and then let him cook. Redemption and revenge is part of the human psyche. I’m available for one to one psychiatry sessions if any one needs them please form a orderly line and I’ll get to you when I get to you 😀
0
22 Sep 2026 05:36:52
I swear all these people who say he's too nice and quiet and not physical enough never watched David Silva play. He too was small, weak, nice, polite and relied on guile and finesse istead of being a physical bully.
Same people would have been telling Barca to sell Messi at 20 because he's too short, too easy to bully and his hair was too long so he's clearly to feminine.
0
22 Sep 2026 10:38:24
From what little I've heard, my conclusion is that Carragher thinks Wirtz should be dropped and Neville called United "absolutely pathetic" on Sunday.
Neville was, and very often is, more scathing about United.
I don't mind either of them. They are doing a job and I do listen to them but it doesn't bother me if they say something that I disagree with.
I enjoy chatting about football so I don't tend to get angry even if they do.
0
22 Sep 2026 11:27:11
Nevada - I never said Barca should sell Messi at 20 because he was too short. So that blows your "same people" argument out of the water. D. Silva was small but he played tough, he was busy, crafty and careful with the ball. The only comparison I can afford Wirtz there is that he is also small.
Triple6 - I guess I wouldn't go so far as to say he needs to be a bully haha. In terms of his development and adjustment to the league, there needs to be a physical edge to his game. People don't need to be huge or bullies to do that, but if you don't have that kind of mentality then I think having your body up to the physical demands will help you mentally going into the battle.
I lived and was playing rugby in Hawai'i in 2008. One of the guys on my team was an absolute physical tank. 6"3, probably 120kg. He was using rugby and his training to prepare for the military. But, mentally he just have that kind of mindset to go out there and smash people. But being that size, helped him to feel confident on the pitch going into the contact. He also told me he was taking up wrestling just to help his confidence in the tackle.
I use that as another type of example of how I think about Wirtz. Personality-wise, playing style-wise, he hasn't shown that edge about him. But we know that he needs it to excel in the PL. So in terms of his body, what could help him is simply being stronger as it may give him the feeling of physical confidence when he is on the pitch. I think it would go along way to helping his adjustment to the league.
And yes, totally agree about the set-up around him. It can't be helpful having the other CMs also adjusting to their new system too.
21 Sep 2026 13:53:10
Hi Ed 01,
I've been reading, with interest, about Tony Bloom's
Starlizard/Jamestown Analytics and Matthew Behham's Smartodds and how these data algorithms have worked in predictive performance to optimise transfers (and even coaching recruitment, pre-match simulations and in-game predictions) - by treating player identification as a betting market Brighton and Brentford (and Hearts, Como, Royale Union Saint-Gilloise, Midtjyllan) seem to have weaponised data into a competitive advantage and its worked.
I'm guessing that the next decade will see much more of this - reconciling numbers with human variables such as the blending of psychological and cultural scouting (as data can't predict homesicknesses or things like this).
I do wonder what the game will lose, as some of the spectacle, some of the maverick players, seem to have already been lost with teams playing for free-kicks, throw ins and corners as open play is unpredictable, so the dead-ball becomes a space where a pre-programmed sequence can be executed but I fear this is a slippery slope towards turning a fluid passionate game into a drab American football style of rehearsed routines and advertising/hydration breaks. Just wondering what your thoughts are on where this technology and American influence is leading?
8
{Ed001's Note - I think you are spot on they will look to set pieces rather than open play, though they will also utilise the high press as a weapon. It does mean players playing a system, rather than any kind of individual flair, as that is difficult to measure through stats. It has been getting more and more robotic by the season, I just hope that someone will decide to go the opposite way and bring individual flair back as a counter to this.}
5
21 Sep 2026 17:45:10
Ahh! The demise of football as we know it, or want it? A full season of watching Arsenal (last year) type football.
90 minutes of possession based, with the centre backs spending most of the game knocking it either to the full backs, or keeper, passing accuracy will be through the roof!
90 minutes on insipid football in the hope something can be made of a corner or free kick.
1
21 Sep 2026 18:03:21
Excellent post mate, I was thinking about this the other day off the back of Tris and Seamus (spelling? ) discussing it in the podcast. Very interesting to think about, especially as there has been a very pronounced shift on set piece importance in the past few seasons.
Was this another example of forwarding thinking Klopp? I remember us being laughed at for hiring a throw in coach before winning the league in the 2019/20 season.
Whether or not it's good for the game is another question entirely. I do think in most cases like this were unlikely to see either extreme, but probably something in the middle that no one is entirely happy with.
2
21 Sep 2026 18:01:28
What's the article mate? Would be interested in reading that.
0
21 Sep 2026 18:28:23
Its not an article as such - was talking to a Brighton mate/fan after they beat Arsenal, about their player recruitment and he told me about Bloom's background as a trader, maths wiz and professional gambler/poker player, known as the Lizard and his Starlizard and its offshoot jamestown Analytics. I knew nothing about Bloom and he sounded interesting so I spent an evening trawling the internet.
Mate told me that when Potter and others left for Chelsea they thought Brighton would slide down the table but the opposite happened which for him is evidence the data is driving the club's success, as the data is a closely guarded secret, that didn't leave with Potter.
4
21 Sep 2026 22:28:38
There will never be a better Scout than the Human Eye.
It's most obvious why Brighton has improved, and Spurs are at the bottom of the Premier League? and some posters wanted him as our manager this year?
YNWA Andoni.
0
21 Sep 2026 23:18:53
I think it's also helpful that there is way more money in the Premier League than any other league in the world. Mid-lower table clubs in PL can comfortably outspend their equivalents from around the world and in many cases are able to outspend CL clubs from other leagues.
0
22 Sep 2026 05:42:49
Tô an extent barakdee you're right on some things.
My job for the last 9 years has been to take individual sessions with players in bundesliga, serie A and now Brazil's Premier League and correct their focus and mentality on key areas of their game which they're struggling with psychologically.
For example, if I'd worked for LFC i'd likely have been the guy working to correct Darwin's insane ability to fluff his lines the more time he's given to shoot. That's the type of thing I get hired to fix.
But for the last 5 years or so I have also been utilised many times by scouts, managers and sporting directors to identify if players are unlikely to settle, what things you can do to help them settle, and make transfers more of a sure thing.
UK Premier League is a little behind in this aspect and France and Germany are the leaders when it comes to utilisiing psychologists to help identify transfers which will stick.
0
{Ed666's Note - Im available for hire Nevada if you ever need a Number 2 😁….the way I would have made Darwin a goal scoring machine is telling him the opposing goalkeeper sent dikc pics to your Mrs…again im available for hire please form and orderly line I’ll get to you when I get to you..
0
22 Sep 2026 08:29:43
Reminds me of the time I used to tell girls I was a dolphin trainer.
{Ed025's Note - im with you Taurus, a lot of people have selective memory mate..
{Ed666's Note - Fabulous read that was mate. But I have to disagree I don’t think Wirtz needs to be a bully or a bruiser I just think the players around him need to make some runs and show movement. With regards to Carra I don’t think he says things for a reaction I think he believes what he says. I truly don’t believe Sky feeds him stuff to say.
{Ed001's Note - I think you are spot on they will look to set pieces rather than open play, though they will also utilise the high press as a weapon. It does mean players playing a system, rather than any kind of individual flair, as that is difficult to measure through stats. It has been getting more and more robotic by the season, I just hope that someone will decide to go the opposite way and bring individual flair back as a counter to this.}