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10 Oct 2024 02:19:34
Most of the posts go to the Liverpool Banter page. Also more posts go to the Liverpool Discussion Posts page and the Match Posts page on Match days.
09 Oct 2024 04:21:45
Hi ed
Any chance of Tino Livramento being possible replacement for Trent?
0
{Ed002's Note - Liverpool have shown no interest in Livramento.}
2
09 Oct 2024 08:24:08
It seems ludicrous that Trent, one of our best players has not been tied down on a long term deal. Add to that the fact he is approaching his peak years and is a local lad.
Is this a collective failure by the club rather than one individuals mess? To me the club lack true ambition to win at the very top.
5
09 Oct 2024 08:32:34
Meanwhile the club that lacks true ambition is top of the table and unbeaten in Europe.
10
09 Oct 2024 08:57:16
Or maybe Trent is now in the best negotiating position for both options. Perhaps the choice is his and not the clubs.
10
09 Oct 2024 09:08:24
Out of the 3 Trent is the one there is no chance of leaving. Trent will definitely be lining up for lfc next season.
4
{Ed025's Note - dont put your mortgage on that June..
7
09 Oct 2024 09:37:07
Have never wavered from that opinion Ed, trents a lifer.
3
{Ed025's Note - i would like to think so June but money and lifestyle points to Madrid for me mate...and who could blame the guy?..
8
09 Oct 2024 12:34:27
Why hasn’t the club locked Trent away in a cell and put a gun to his head until he signs a deal?
It is not within the legal power of the club to make a player sign a contract extension against their will.
Even if you start negotiations 3 years earlier, if the player doesn’t want to sign THERE IS NOTHING THE CLUB CAN DO.
You can accept any transfer bid you want on the player, but if they don’t want to leave THERE IS NOHING THE CLUB CAN DO.
In this country players have free will, like any other human. If a player doesn’t want to sign it’s not a failure of the club, it’s a choice the player can make.
4
{Ed001's Note - Trent was ready to sign months and months ago but the club never acted Ron. It is all very well saying you can't force someone to sign, but you can bloody well make them an offer! We hadn't even done that and that is a disgrace. Shambolic amateur dealings.}
11
09 Oct 2024 12:19:04
Ed25, didn't you say that you met him once and he seems to be a nice guy. And it have been suggested to me that he has done lot of charity around Liverpool and UK in general. Doesn't seems to me that he is a footballer who love rich and lavish lifestyle. But that's just my opinion of course. And like you, I would not blame the guy if he decides to leave just because he doesn't feel appreciated by the club. This should have been deal with by the club a long time ago.
1
{Ed025's Note - i did meet him once at the Whitechapel project mfahmee which is for the homeless in Liverpool, nice guy but as you say opportunities like that do not come up very often and im sure Jude will have been selling him the dream when they meet up with England, good luck to him however it goes mate..
1
09 Oct 2024 12:49:39
Ok Ed001, I don’t have any insight into Trent’s readiness to negotiate months ago so I have to take that as read. I do know someone who lives near Trent’s dad and he has never wavered from the idea that Trent will stay.
Doesn’t look good at moment.
1
{Ed001's Note - it had got to the point where he actually asked the club about it. It is insane it has got to this point where the club are handing out contracts to Quansah and Konate rather than dealing with this, most pressing issue. As I have said multiple times, I fully understand waiting for Salah and VVD as they are ageing and it might be time to just extend a year at a time with them. Trent has literally just turned 26, entering his prime years and it should be sorted. I just think they are taking for granted that he will sign as he has been very clear that he wants to stay. But if you take liberties, there comes a point when he will wonder if he is even wanted and can change his mind about staying. Especially when he has Madrid in his ear constantly, making it clear they want him and will give him almost anything. He would be a world icon like Bellingham immediately on signing for them.}
6
09 Oct 2024 14:03:15
I don’t want him to go but the devil in me would love it if he stuck 2 fingers up to them ( the club.
1
09 Oct 2024 15:02:48
Bradley would surely be the obvious replacement, no? We also have Calvin Ramsay out on loan who was once highly thought of but I think that ship has sailed.
If we wanted to go into the market for a Trent replacement then we should consider Jeremie Frimpong in my opinion.
2
09 Oct 2024 16:56:57
What has ambition got to do with with an unbeaten record? Two separate issues.
0
09 Oct 2024 17:09:25
This one puzzles me. Out of the 3 (Trent, VVD and Salah) I would bet that Liverpool would most likely give Trent a new long term contract. He's been part of Liverpool's most successful teams of late, he's still relatively young and can play on for years to come, he is captain material and I don't think how we would lose out if we offered him a new contract because if we have plans to let him go for free, might as well give him a new contract and sell him a year later for big money.
The same can be said about VVD and Salah. Why not offer them short term contracts (2-3 years) and if we get replacements in, we can still sell them for some money.
Letting 3 first team and world class players go next season would be the stupidest thing that we can do. I have serious doubt that we can replace 3 top class players in 1 transfer window. We do not have that sort of money to spend and it is a huge risk even if we can find replacements as they may need time to settle in.
Also, if we do let Salah and VVD go next season, we'd be able to cover the pay rise that Trent will receive if he's given a new contract. We are already saving 200k/ week after Thiago left the club.
0
{Ed025's Note - i think if that was sorted 18 months ago it would have been great DAP, but it wasn,t, so now you are in a position where in the new year they can start talking to other clubs to go on a free mate, it means that the club they go to can offer them £squillions as there is no fee to pay....massive mistake imo..
1
09 Oct 2024 18:27:40
Interesting point of view @Endo.
0
09 Oct 2024 20:54:49
Once in a lifetime opportunity. Just imagine, whatever your industry/ job is, that the apex offer/ destination/ company/ wage/ project came along and asked you to leave your hometown, comfort zone, who would not think about it?
1
{Ed025's Note - not many i expect Vango, and im rich and good looking mate, but i couldn,t do it to the women of Woolton, it would be like when Rudolph Valentino died.. :)
2
09 Oct 2024 21:11:44
I'm not saying this just to be pessimistic for the sake of it, because I generally try to adopt a positive outlook with these things and wait to see what happens.
But I can't pretend it doesn't feel like he's about to leave. Hope I'm wrong, but it felt exactly the same with Owen and MacManaman all those years back. The silence, the lack of time left to sort anything out, no meaningful press releases from either side etc. His best mate is also there smashing it, he's just turned 26, Klopp has left and Carvajal is being phased into a backup role. The timing will literally never be more perfect for him.
If it happens, and I do believe it will, it will be a long time before I'm at the "no one is bigger than the club" stage, ngl. This would be a monumentally heavy defeat for us for a huge number of reasons. I'd be absolutely devastated, especially if he leaves on a free.
0
09 Oct 2024 21:46:23
Ed025-Sounds like there would be weeks of mourning if you left the local grannies and bingo players to become a wool.
0
{Ed025's Note - you can get a good tune out of an old fiddle Vango.. :)
1
09 Oct 2024 22:18:12
If you find an old bike, give it a good ride and pass it on, no matter how rusty it is.
0
{Ed025's Note - my philosophy exactly Vango..
0
08 Oct 2024 10:33:30
I can't believe the panic at the thought of losing firstly trent, as we can buy another right back who is defensively better and can pass the ball to the standard required also when trent was injured last season we performed well, salah has needed real competition for the last 5 years and now he is 32 naturally he will need replacing . Vvd is the hard one as I believe he still has 3 to 4 years of quality service to give to us. All this being said we shouldn't be worrying about losing players they should be worried about leaving us or they are not worth wearing the badge.
19
08 Oct 2024 10:56:39
Of course we should be worried about losing 3 of our best players, each of who can make an argument to be the best in the world in their position as well as gracing our all time Liverpool XI.
Personally, I don? t believe any of the 3 players will be unreasonable in their demands. They clearly love it here.
The ball is firmly in Edwards and Hughes court. Are Liverpool Football Club ambitious enough to keep their best players?
16
08 Oct 2024 11:10:46
Hailstones, I get the sentiment and the attempt at optimism but it's just wrong.
Of course losing our 3 (probably 4 with Ali) best players is a concern, it would be for any team in the world.
'can buy another right back', not of the quality of Trent.
If we sign Bastoni, Frimpong and Rodrygo, which clearly will never happen. You are spending potentially £250m to downgrade.
To pretend this is anything short of an absolute mess of a situation is nonsense mate.
15
08 Oct 2024 11:18:37
So we are saying if we lose trent we can't function as a team . if so we may as well go home and start supporting prescot cables . Big teams lose big players we are a big team and we find solutions and move on . united did it city are doing it we also should do it and can do it. Only vvd is playing at a worldclass level week in week out for me he is proving to be the real glue out of the 3 players that could leave.
15
08 Oct 2024 11:38:51
Are you ok? No one is saying we can't function, but losing our 3 best players, again potentially 4 with Ali is a disaster.
United did it and City are doing it? When did they lose their 3 best players all in the same window for free, please enlighten me.
You are trying too hard to be optimistic and individualize them leaving, but that's not the case, all 3 are going.
Could we cope with 1 of the 3 maybe 4 going? of course, but you know that's not the case, so to individualize their importance shows a lack of knowledge or deliberate ignorance.
It makes a huge difference that the captain, vice captain, top scorer and best goalkeeper in the world are all potentially leaving at once and it definitely isn't fine.
6
08 Oct 2024 11:42:59
hailstones - of course we would move on. We always have. That is not the point. The point is they all want to stay. Yes, Trent's head has been turned by Real's advances but I still believe he would like to stay and achieve more with his boyhood club.
The ball is in the club's court.
8
08 Oct 2024 12:05:44
No one bar Trent knows what he wants, it’s stupid to think otherwise. If the club fail to offer him a new contract then his decision is an easy one, if they do and he decides to join Real Madrid then so be it. The ball is firmly in Trent’s court, and let’s not blame Edward’s etc for this mess, he was allowed to run down his contract before they came on board.
10
08 Oct 2024 12:12:30
"Losing a £90m player for nothing is totes not a big deal. "
- Hailstones.
10
08 Oct 2024 12:12:51
Pelican do you have a private relationship with all 3 players or there agent and know for a fact they want to stay? . As I stated vvd is the one I am most worried about losing his leadership and quality which is both impeccable. United lost players like Keane, jaap stam, Beckham, Ronaldo, van nistelrooy, veron, etc adapted and won . City have lost players like tevez, kompany, aguero, mahrez, foden, sane, nani etc still won.
4
08 Oct 2024 12:34:32
Sorry not foden cole palmer.
1
08 Oct 2024 12:46:09
Losing them isn’t the thing for me……losing them for absolute zilch is the major issue. Salah and vvd I kind of get, sure they’ll get another year option atleast but Trent is different level stupidity. to replace a rb fair enough there are options but you ain’t getting anyone of his passing quality too, not a absolute chance.
7
08 Oct 2024 12:51:30
Based on this and last season performances I agree with hailstones the order of who I hope signs the most would be:-
1. VVD
2. Trent
3. Salah.
4
08 Oct 2024 13:22:30
hailstones - each have said they are happy here and are ready to talk to the club. Are you paying attention?
7
08 Oct 2024 14:46:07
There must be more to this than meets the eye. On paper Salah and VVD are model pros with great injury records so are definitely worthy of 2-3 year contracts. Trent is near to world class and will be due a bumper salary increase and imo he is worth it due to his age and potential sale value if he accepts a new contract.
So either Liverpool are being careful with money and not wanting bumper salary rises although if the players left they would have to replace them, a hugely tricky and maybe more expensive task.
Or the players actually want to leave maybe for a big pay day in Saudi or PSG or to one of the elite European clubs that consistently win trophies Real / Bayern.
If either the club or the players wish to no longer be contracted to each other it is going to create bad feeling in and around the club. So maybe the silence speaks volumes.
2
08 Oct 2024 16:15:21
We lose the best manager in the world and replace him with someone nobody ever heard of ( baring ed2) then the following season 3 of our best players walk out . I don’t know what message you lot see in that.
They should have been signed up last year and if the players declined then we should have started the ball rolling on replacing them. Not the approach we took this summer ( which was ludicrous if you ask me) if I was a top player I wouldn’t be in a rush to sign for us.
We’re ( the club) always looking for an angle. If we go after a player we look for an angle to save money. If players run down there contracts we renew at the last min to save money. So thinking we will identify and sign suitable replacements in one or two windows is daft.
More so with the way Hughes worked in the summer. We been looking ( supposedly) for a vvd replacement for a couple of seasons yet all we managed to do was upset a few clubs. Shambolic if you ask me.
2
08 Oct 2024 17:35:33
I don’t know what all the fuss is about. The situation is not ideal but it’s not the clubs fault if the players decide to leave. Players move all the time. Trent owes us nothing, he has been brilliant along with Mo and big Virg. We can’t stop them moving just like I couldn’t stop any of you moving jobs. Let it play out and enjoy them whilst they still play for us.
5
08 Oct 2024 20:18:51
Conor Bradley was fantastic IMO, last year. He is better defensively. Keeping VVD is critical. I would keep VVD if I had the money for only one player.
3
08 Oct 2024 23:30:41
It’s not the losing them that worries me, it’s getting the right replacements in that does.
I know we have bought well in our recent history so I’m sure it won’t be a major issue.
Saying that I would be gutted if we lost Trent. Salah and VVD have more games behind them than ahead of them now.
0
09 Oct 2024 02:42:49
How much would you say the 3 are worth not onli numerically but in terms of experience?
That’s my concern….
0
09 Oct 2024 07:42:06
We still need reinforcements now, maybe 1 or 2…. add that to salah vvd and Trent possible exits…. absolutely no way 3 quality replacements will be added there, never mind the reinforcements we already need will be brought in next summer. Although I agree Conor Bradley is a really good player and has a very good future ahead of him, he isn’t ready to be full time 1st choice rb yet.
0
09 Oct 2024 10:17:43
If Alexander-Arnold was offered £300,000 a week, that's £78 million over 5 years.
Let him go, then buy someone to replace him, at say £40 million and pay them 146k a week.
Works out the same.
they might not be as good.
They might be better.
We don't make these decisions.
1
09 Oct 2024 11:50:26
I have no problem with TAA moving om if that's his choice, and it is his choice, We've had a good ride with him for what is essentially only an investment in wages. Salah, was an investment in fees but is now in my opinion an excessive investment in wages for his overall comparative contribution compared to what someone else could deliver. VVD has more that delivered as a player, leader and role model, he sets standards and at whatever price and continued cost is an asset to the club and I hope will continue to be so.
I can't get excited about players moving on and being replaced with someone different, it brings a new dynamic and that's a good thing both tactically and from an interest perspective, a positive change. If TAA wants to go to Real or Oxford United, let him go with thanks and welcome the next guy and enjoy the ride. When Mo moves on, thanks for the effort and good luck. but for so many reasons VVD has still a valuable contribute to make for a year or two yet.
0
09 Oct 2024 16:01:59
Prioritising the 3?
Equally influencial and important. It is a joke that the club land themselves in this position to begin with.
I would want all 3 to stay, and if anyone is to leave, it will be the 1 that get the most bucks.
1
10 Oct 2024 00:30:35
Completely agree Viva.
Whats to stop Real taking Trent and VVD on frees next year?
That would be a bitter pill to swallow.
0
07 Oct 2024 21:23:00
Hi Ed,
Is there any truth to the claims from the likes of Fabrizio Romano etc that the trio are making Liverpool their priority? If so, it seems to me that the club is making a major error here if they can’t find agreements currently.
1
{Ed002's Note - I don't know what has been said, but the three will have options, Liverpool need to consider the age of two and they have been dragging it out. You have to be forward looking as a club. For me, Concentrate on Trent Alexander-Arnold as he is younger and far garder to replace.}
22
07 Oct 2024 21:37:09
Dont know about that, Virg has been the best CB in the league by a mile this season.
18
07 Oct 2024 22:11:53
I would agree that Trent is the priority, then virg and finally Mo. VVD is purring along and CBs can go on longer at the top.
9
07 Oct 2024 22:40:37
We'll just have to see if Hughes is up to the job or not. Probably after December next year we'll know.
By then, he will either have signed up the players or got replacements in and we'll see what they are like.
Reasons to be positive about Hughes;
Seems to have made a good choice of manager
Did well on a few sales
Negative side:
No contract signings
Numerous failed attempts at signing managers and players.
Did not speak well at all in his only press conference.
Jury very much out. I'm leaning negatively still on him for sure but there's no conclusive evidence to say one way or the other just yet. But my own personal faith is very very low on him. I hope I'm Gravenberch wrong on him.
4
07 Oct 2024 23:30:41
Replacing the best central defender of the last 10 years is the biggest challenge.
8
08 Oct 2024 00:35:58
Signing Virgil up should be a no brainer. His form over the last two years has been exceptional. Get him on a deal and then watch how the likes of Scalvini, Huisen, Hato and this young Palmeiras Reis kid develop over the next year or two. The Yoro ship has sailed.
Trent's head has definitely been turned. Will be interesting to see where that goes now.
Difficult to say on Mo. He clearly wants to stay at the club and seems to be enjoying himself. Are we willing to offer him what he wants? Not sure. There's not direct replacement for Mo so you'd be looking at tweaking things with a Kudus, Bakayoko or Minteh - unless you can prise Rodrygo or Guler away from Madrid - very unlikely.
6
08 Oct 2024 01:12:53
This debate of who is most important shows one thing. All of them are. For me though yeah it's Trent. Now he's in the madrid newspaper. I think he's as good as gone. Imagine if them three all leave? expect a poor season next year is all I will say.
Gobsmacking. But the way we do things one day we will wake up to seeing them all sign a new contract lol. Not going to happen.
Said it before and will say it again, I get the impression they were hired to reduce costs. Wages in this case, it makes no sense. We can discuss it until we're blue in the face, none of us have an idea what's going on but so far it's not looking good. On the pitch it's looking good but if you go and lose 3 key players in one window it will most certainly make Slot's job a lot harder.
Players come and go, I've been around long enough to see it but this is just crazy.
Who do we replace Trent with? Bradley? the young lad looks brilliant but my word he's not ready to fill them shoes. Who can defend like VVD - I'm talking realisticly, someone within our reach? Salah, the goals and assists he provides, they'll be gone.
Very concerning.
6
08 Oct 2024 04:54:28
This is madness. Trent is top 3 RB in the world, Salah is our best player! and Virgil is the best CB in the league! Why aren't we giving them new contracts?!
7
08 Oct 2024 10:28:29
@Vak, who said they want a new contract? VVD and Mo have said the club hadn’t spoken to them at the start of the season (assuming the players meant their agents) but that doesn’t necessarily mean they want to stay. They might just want to see what the club is willing to offer.
It isn’t as simple as a lot of people (certainly some on this board) seem to think. Even if Liverpool wanted one or more of them to stay the club can’t make them stay if the player wants to go domewhere else like Saudi or Madrid and if they don’t want to stay starting negotiations 2 years ago or in December this year won’t make any difference.
3
08 Oct 2024 17:38:25
As it stands, VVD is the player we can least afford to lose. If Madrid come calling, I can't see Trent turning them down, no matter how persuasive Hughes is. Regards to Salah, in my opinion, he will be gone the end of next season if he's not gone the end of this season. Therefore we can only assume, and hope, plans are in place to replace him.
1
09 Oct 2024 02:26:25
Look at it like this those 3 players, if not down to the end of their contract, couid probably be sold for around 150mil combined conservatively, likely much more. To replace them with like for like quality - which is almost impossible anyway - would cost in excess of 200mil. If they leave on a free, and assuming we have enough ambition as a club to want to replace them, that’s a 350mil hole that could’ve been avoid by careful (though I would call it normal) forward planning. There is no sugar coating this, the club have made a complete and utter mess of it. Add to that the message it would send to the rest of the squad? If you were at Liverpool, and those 3 leave on a free, would you feel like the club really wanted to win trophies? That the club was as ambitious as one of Liverpool’s size should be? No part of this is in anyway good for the club.
0
07 Oct 2024 00:46:34
Real Madrid had planned to sign England right-back Trent Alexander-Arnold, 25, on a free transfer next summer when his contract with Liverpool expires, but might move for him in January after Spain defender Dani Carvajal, 32, sustained a serious knee injury.
0
07 Oct 2024 09:15:10
According to the gossip column of the bbc. Clue being word gossip.
8
07 Oct 2024 09:58:13
Just to add to what 1jj said, it's a link from a website called Sport45 in Spain - if I was to guess, it's a clickbait site.
5
{Ed002's Note - I am not aware of them looking to pay for the player in January. I expect them to look to negotiate a pre-contract in January.}
7
07 Oct 2024 15:36:10
Hi Ed002,
Hope you’re keeping well….
Do you think RM will be successful in their pursuit for Trent?
Cheers
Drogie.
0
{Ed002's Note - I think that he will need to talk to them in January if the club cannot reach agreement by then. Right now it is likely he will make the move.}
7
07 Oct 2024 20:01:47
Thanks ed002….
0
08 Oct 2024 03:31:18
If the club mess this up, and he does move to Madrid, then heads should roll. This is an unbelievable level of incompetence for a club as large as ours, honestly it is embarrassing how badly they have handled it and, if they do manage to allow all 3 contracted players to leave on a free, incredibly detrimental to the club as a whole. Allegedly one of the biggest clubs in the world with an absolute minnow mentality, the chickens will come home to roost on this one.
5
08 Oct 2024 08:28:28
"Absolute minnow mentality" - comical stuff.
3
08 Oct 2024 10:32:04
@Seano, Do you remember when Coutinho and Suarez and Owen and Mcmanaman wanted to leave? TAA leaving doesn’t necessarily mean that the club has messed anything up. If a player wants to leave at, say, the end of his contract then the club can’t make him stay.
4
08 Oct 2024 14:54:36
Problem is, WDW3, those players didn't leave the club at the end of the same season.
1
08 Oct 2024 23:59:23
As I think you will appreciate @ Darwin, these things evolve. At this moment all three might leave or, at the other end of the scale, none of them might leave. If as some people think, the club are happy / because they want to leave then I suspect the club will bring in replacements. The club isn’t going to collapse, we will still be in a position to field a team capable of winning things and life will go on.
I’d say the only issue in letting all three go at once is as a result of poor planning for possible / likely scenarios when the contracts were agreed and signed.
The departure of players is an opportunity to improve the quality of the club is, perhaps, an alternative way of looking at it than assuming that the sky is going to cave in as the first option. That last bit is a general comment and not something specific to you in any way @Darwin.
0
06 Oct 2024 21:02:29
There was some vague noise from a Spanish 'source' that the club held some interest in Greenwood. Any chance this is utter nonsense?
0
06 Oct 2024 22:08:25
Why would we want him? Have you heard the voice recordings? Tell me this is a wind up!
16
06 Oct 2024 22:51:36
Not sure why a Spanish source would be particularly itk on Greenwood, given he's joined Marseilles' Team Evil project.
Regardless, I think this is a non starter, if for no other reason than fan reaction.
4
07 Oct 2024 09:15:55
He won’t be joining Liverpool.
4
07 Oct 2024 10:46:05
He would join Diouf on the very short list of players I would support whilst at the club, which consists of Diou. yup just him.
1
07 Oct 2024 11:43:11
Well if there was one player in the world who would likely hate United as much if not more than our fan base, it’s him.
In his case their actions were justified but what a statement he (and negatively, us) would be making and imagine the impact he would want to make if he did join…
No, I don’t want him and think there is nothing in it but if he is or even isn’t what the tapes made him sound like, he will want to prove himself to United, the Prem, England and the wider football world.
Not enough of an upside for any top flight English team, especially those with global financial and business interests. Just for that reason O would be intrigued to know if he received ANY firm offers from Prem teams.
5
07 Oct 2024 15:27:35
Might sound a bit dramatic but if this were to happen (i doubt it will) i wouldn't watch the club i love until him and all involved in his transfer were gone from the club. And I wouldn't allow my son to wear the kits or have any of the merchandise. This is a player we need to stay away from.
6
08 Oct 2024 07:13:15
They weren’t talking about Mason.
We’re in talks to help fund an adult Incredible Hulk movie called Green Wood.
2
06 Oct 2024 14:55:59
Been talk about Omar Marmoush. Looks a great talent and knows how to finish. Any idea eds that he may be a option?
2
{Ed002's Note - Omar Marmoush (S/W) Eintracht Frankfurt have no intention of selling the player. His agent says there is interest from Newcastle, Spurs and Brentford. Apparently noted by Liverpool scouts when watching another player. This is largely old news.}
7
06 Oct 2024 09:46:34
As Dani Carvajal is now out for the rest of the season I wonder if RM will make a January bid for TAA instead of waiting for a free at the end of the season?
0
{Ed002's Note - No.}
6
06 Oct 2024 13:15:27
Madrid won’t pay money for someone they’ve tapped up for the summer on a free.
16
06 Oct 2024 15:37:40
hope he signs a new deal so real madrid can do one.
15
07 Oct 2024 12:46:48
no. Chance he s away.
4
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