Liverpool Banter

01 May 2024 06:54:50
If Klopp turns out to be a modern era shanks in terms of the way he turned the club around then we can only hope that Arne is the next Bob.

But how likely is that?

Well let's look at where we are. If we win our last three games that will leave us on 84 points (and I get that looks unlikely right now but go with me) . Unbelievably despite how dire this season appears to be ending that would be Klopp's fourth highest points total in his 9 year tenure.

Statistically 84 points would also be a very good performance historically. In the last 28 seasons (38 game seasons) 84 points would have won the league in 7 seasons. It would have seen you finish second in 21 of those years.

It would leave us 17 points better off than last year. City would only be 2 points better off and Arsenal 5 points better off.

Now I am as gutted as everybody else about how the season has panned out but I do believe when you look at it objectively Arne is picking the team up in quite a good place. Yes there are issues but compare it to the state of the club when Klopp took over. In Rodger's last full season we were 25 points behind the winner. In Klopps season we were 21 points behind. If we finish on 84 we would at most be 7 behind.

And we can all think of a list as long as our arm about things that could have gone better this year.

So given where we are, how close we are and how much room for improvement there is (both defensively and offensively) I think we have reason to be cautiously optimistic that Arne could take us to the next step.

01 May 2024 08:56:37
The club was in a far better position when Klopp took over than when Shankly did. Shankly rebuilt the club, really.

Ever the pessimist, I think Slot has a huge job to maintain where we are never mind take us to the next step.
We are where we are because of Klopp, really. And because we are a fairly well run club but we don't talk about finances so I won't go any further about that 😂.
If Slot is another Klopp, that's brilliant but it's highly unlikely.

Looking for positives, we have been third best this season and City will have their abdication to deal with before not too long, hopefully and Arsenal are a couple of seasons of development in front of us. If we continue to grow then would could narrow the gap but we need a spine like the one Arsenal is starting to finally grow again. If we could get a quality centre half, midfielder and another forward we could make the next step.

01 May 2024 09:49:35
Unfortunately there will never be another Paisley. The greatest manager of all time in my opinion
Up the pool.

01 May 2024 10:03:49
Completely different eras. You simply can’t compare football in the 60s to football today.

Back then any team could win the league, they didn’t need to be the richest club because clubs were much closer together in terms of finances.

In that sense it was easier for Shanks as the gap he needed to bridge wasn’t so big.

In another sense, because clubs were so close in terms of finance it was tougher because the league was so competitive with even the league winners losing regularly.

Today, all you need to do is beat City. End of story. They have by far the best squad because they have had by far the most money for 15 years and have been allowed to spend it as they wish.

That makes it harder because the gap from 8th place to City is huge. You simply can’t lose more than 3 or 4 games a season if you want to finish above them.

In another sense it’s easier because you only have to beat one team.

Either way, football has changed so much it’s futile to try to compare the era of Shanks and Paisley to Klopp and Slot. What will be will be.

01 May 2024 10:30:46
I look at things from a different angle. For personal reasons I dislike the American sports style of management structure. Edwards the boss, then a sports director and a football coach equivalent to a school P. E. Teacher. Not to forget managers for the dinner ladies and the tea swindle. Perhaps this structure will be very successful?
I prefer the old school style of a Klopp, Dalglish, Benitez, Paisley and finally the man who built the bedrock. Bill Shankly.
My way of looking at things. I have dealt with American style management that wants yes men and not strong minded independent types. They like their system.
I like Xabi Alonso and Ruebin Amorim because of my Sporting CP connections.
Good luck anyway. The world of football is changing.

01 May 2024 10:56:34
‘Yes men’ is such a silly and emotionally charged word, Yuri, at least in my opinion.

Everything that is good about humanity, all of its successes, have come from cooperation and teamwork. It is the key to everything.

Klopp understood that, at least initially, and was happy to delegate responsibility to all kinds of experts. Sports scientists, coaches, data analysts, even throw in coaches.

This attention to detail delivered our success, but has been gradually eroded over the last four seasons. Returning to this approach, as far as i am concerned, is crucial.

Furthermore, I think you’re fetishising the myth of the big strong man, the inspirational leader, a god like figure. Such myths are just that, myths. It subscribes to ‘The Great Man’ theory of history, which is critiqued and understood to be bogus by most modern day scholars.

Within the old Liverpool set up, there was a reliance on cooperation and delegation. The Boot Room wasn’t famous for no reason. It was never just Shanks or Paisley, but Fagan, Moran and senior players like Dalglish. Geoff Twentyman was one of the greatest scouts to ever do it and was vital to our success. Further afield, much has been written about Ferguson and his cooperation with David Gill, as well as his consistent rotation of coaches to bring in fresh ideas.

It’s not that the days of The Manager are gone, it’s that they never really existed. It’s the kind of mythologising that paints certain world leaders as totemic, god like figures, completely untouched by external influence, when the reality was very different. I think it is naive and slightly dangerous to boot.

Structures built on cooperation are not full of Yes Men, they are the opposite by definition. Discussion, scrutiny and more democratic decision making are a positive thing. The true Yes Men are working under leaders that don’t share any of the power, and don’t want their decisions challenged. That is the opposite of what this so called ‘American Style Management’ is trying to achieve.

01 May 2024 11:00:09
I should point out that I know you can’t compare like for like and nor was I trying. The comparison was simply that a period of great success followed a period of growth and change in attitudes.

01 May 2024 11:24:14
The original boot room were a collective - they all had a voice. They were generally very knowledgeable but also had specialist areas. They were different characters - Shanks was messianic, Sir Bob was ruthless, Uncle Joe was self effacing and so on. I witter on about the sum of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts and that was never more true than the original boot room and that is acknowledging that each of them was brilliant in their own way.

01 May 2024 11:12:38
Bob was a trophy machine. There’s no chance.

01 May 2024 11:13:42
I thought it was a good post Wassa. Agreed fully. Can’t deny that the last 4 seasons have flattered to receive at times, and at others just been simply woeful compared to the bar this group set themselves. However the first 5 seasons the job Klopp did was a remarkable turnaround. In fact pre-Klopp, our last 4 seasons would’ve been looked on as successful. He’s raised the bar so high that 4th, 2nd, 5th and 3rd place finishes with an FA Cup and two League Cups is now seen as under achievement. That would’ve been lauded as excellent in the first 10-15 years of this century. Klopp’s leaving us in a great position. The side he took over had won 1 League Cup under King Kenny in 9 years! Hats off to Klopp, regardless of whether he peaked in 2020. The drop off since hasn’t been so severe that it’s not recoverable. Slot is coming in to a very strong foundation.

01 May 2024 11:16:39
Not sure there can ever be another Paisley in this current era at LFC. As far as winning is concerened, he was an absolute one-off esp. at the time, IMO. Fergie couldn't hold a candle to him and a lot of the Utd fans know it.

Also remember, we were on top when Paisley took over and he took us up another couple of levels within his tenure that we were effectively the best team on the planet with the league and CL titles to back that up and then some.

If Slot even comes close to what Klopp has achived which is massive, he would have already sealed his own legacy as a legendary LFC manager. Here's to hoping he can do that.

01 May 2024 11:25:55
Anonymous Woolback
I don't live in your perfect world but you are definitely entitled to your opinion. When that is denied we are all in trouble. Unfortunately the world appears to be heading that way?
I have dealt with plenty of 'Yes-Men'. Cooperation should be mutual and not imposed. Take the Independent free thinkers from history and not much is less. You speak a bit like management-man yourself or an academic liberal.
Different views are important. Whomever takes over from Juergen Klopp will have an extremely difficult task. Things should continue for a bit because of his legacy. Then who knows?
Would Citeh be as good without Guardiola?

01 May 2024 11:48:20
Excellent post wassa.

30 Apr 2024 20:54:22
Hi Ed 01
Can I have your opinion mate, I like what you think for next year with Trent, szobo, beck, . If we sell Diaz and mo and bring in top quality centre back and forward, do you think we need a commanding centre mid like rice or rodri to compete with arsenal and city?
Personally I think we do but would appreciate your view.
Thanks.

{Ed001's Note - it would help, but there are other ways to play that would mean it wouldn't necessarily be needed. It is the easy solution though to improve midfield. But who is there out there?}

30 Apr 2024 23:28:48
Surely koopmeiners would be top of the list considering his past with slot?

As another poster said he's not the best defensively nor is Trent macca or szob so do we need a specialist 6 or not?

Twitter seems to think the young Dutch 6 at feyenoord is the next best thing but that would be a massive risk.

01 May 2024 06:46:49
Ed1, we all can see how Rice has transform Arsenal into legit title contender or how the likes of Alisson, Van Dijk or Salah has transform us into contender since they coming to our club. Do you see any player out there that can do that for us for next season? It doesn't have to be any positions, just player that can elevate our squad to the next level.

{Ed001's Note - not that we could get, no. I am sure there are some out there, but I can't think of any.}

01 May 2024 07:11:35
Perhaps Romeo lavia, see if he wants to play for a decent team😄 . Thanks for your reply.

01 May 2024 07:34:26
I always felt that we should've went all out for rice 2-3 years ago, he was the transformative signing we needed in that area of pitch.
Would've added physical strength+size, leadership, availability virtually always, a v v good footballer and could cover if need me all 3 positions in midfield and also cb. used to premier league so no problem adapting either.
U should be going for a player like that when your on top of the tree, like utd done buying keane after they won there 1st league in years
Unfortunately as ed1 says I can't think of anybody able to.

01 May 2024 08:34:34
Ed1, I guess getting the right tactics is the way to go. Tactics that will suits our first eleven as a whole and not just something to suit one player. So I say scrap the inverted full back tactic is one. My only concern is, I've seen report that Slot also play with inverted RB with Gertruida. I'm worried it will be the same as we have now.

{Ed001's Note - from what I have been told, Slot is very much a proponent of the inverted full-back.}

01 May 2024 08:55:25
With rice in our team I feel we would be sitting top of the league and heading to the eufa cup final.
Was gutted he went to Arsenal.
For me he's made a big difference to that Arsenal team.

01 May 2024 10:06:58
If Rice joined us Negative you’d just slate him the same way you slate all of our players and you’d be saying we should’ve signed Guimaraes instead.

01 May 2024 10:33:05
The inverted full back could work if your defenders can defend and get back into position, surely?
Our problems are VVD and TAA are both quite languid -for want of a better word- and Robertson still likes to get forward a lot.
We just need to be more defensively focussed and keep the ball further up the field when the fullback inverts.

01 May 2024 11:21:21
Yes, he is Ed01. Also, Slot loves wingers like kids love candy.

{Ed001's Note - ugh. The inverted full-back, a solution to a problem that never existed and which creates a brand new set of problems.}

01 May 2024 13:30:15
Would he have been the one putting the ball in the back of the net, because let's not forget, that has been the problem with Liverpool these last few games.

30 Apr 2024 11:34:58
It's on some sites that a lip reader has stated that Mo said to Klopp, i will get red carded I've been here 7 years. Wow, if that is true that is bang out of order by Mo.

30 Apr 2024 12:33:49
that's a hilarious accusation I highly doubt it, think everyone is taking this to seriously people argue and have disagreements move on I bet if you look at training photos everyone will be smiling and forgotten about it.

30 Apr 2024 12:34:48
I think Klopp just wanted him to stand together with Nunez and Gomez as subs were made instead of sulking on his own. He has disrespected his manager his fellow team mates and the fans who supported him to get to this level. Get gone you fowl little man remember Liverpool fc will always be bigger and better than any single player. We put you on the map Mo and you act like this I hope to not see him play again.

30 Apr 2024 12:46:20
I wonder if it’s the same lip readers that tried to get Suarez off the hook 🤔.

30 Apr 2024 12:52:57
I agree nicol.

30 Apr 2024 12:56:55
Kloppers, indeed. I do agree that Salah should not have shown up his manager (who he owes his career to, btw) in public. No player should do that to his manager. Apart from that and from desperate media hacks looking for a controversy to nibble on, there's nothing to see here, personally. a.

30 Apr 2024 14:31:55
What do you reckon Oli, salah nets against spurs, runs over to the touch line high fives Klopp and jumps into his arms? All forgotten in best way possible.

30 Apr 2024 14:51:13
Salah doesn't owe his career to Klopp and the club didn't put Salah on the map.
Liverpool and Salah have been great for each other and there's no reason that can't continue for another season at least.
As for Klopp, he's very much a hands on manager. One of the lads with his hugs, handshakes, fist bumps, celebrations and general demeanour.
I can imagine him having the crack and bantering with the players. I can imagine him using some colourful language and letting players know when he is not happy and I can also imagine him taking some back if one of his players did it.
Klopp says it's "done" and I'll take his word for it.

30 Apr 2024 14:57:03
How does he owe his career to Klopp?

30 Apr 2024 17:01:42
Totally agree Rigsby. Salah has been a consummate professional and deserves all the plaudits for his time at Liverpool - Klopp has got the best out of him during his time. Neither made the other.

30 Apr 2024 17:20:32
Think we just need to move on rather than over-analyse.

30 Apr 2024 18:17:32
Ah c'mon nicol and Salah, one spat in 7 years undo's all the good? this man has maybe along with De Bruyne been the most consistent and brilliant player in the league these past 7 years. Yis live by high standards lads.

30 Apr 2024 19:34:18
If I did a great job for 7 years and then behaved like that towards my boss you best believe I’m getting fired, Jude. Maybe some people are simply sick of footballers and managers getting away with pathetic behaviour because of their asset value?

In the grand scheme of things, Klopp and Salah’s spat is minor compared to what goes on with some players at other clubs. Wouldn’t even break into the top 10 for embarrassing moments at Man United under EtH. But it wasn’t a comfortable watch seeing two absolute Liverpool legends behaving that way on camera. Nothing will happen because it is football and this is part of why we’re raising a generation of entitled brats right now. Modern celebrities don’t suffer consequences and they are sadly the role models for our children.

30 Apr 2024 19:45:48
MKS, nah you ain't getting fired if you flew off the handle for the first time in 7 years, bro esp. if you did GREAT work for all those years.

In fact, your manager would be very shocked to see you get really p. ed off and will think that there must have been something that really got you to crack like that as it's the first time you're doing it. Just my take.

{Ed025's Note - Oli, but dont you think that Mo should go on the record and apologize?, after all you cant talk and gesture to the head honcho like that in public mate, it would solve everything imo...or does Salah think he is too big to make an act of contrition?, if he does he will really go down in my estimation..

30 Apr 2024 19:47:51
Yes, Salah owes Klopp his career cos it was Klopp who literally built the attacking side of our scheme around him by having him play much closer to goal than he was doing at Roma. Salah said so himself during his first season when he was asked how it was possible for him to be scoring all those goals, something he never did previously.

30 Apr 2024 20:49:02
Agree with rigsby. Klopp and Salah won those trophies together and neither would have any without the other. That's just simple truth.

I don't think Salah should have publicly argued with klopp like that (or any manager) but klopp has been throwing Salah and Nunez under the bus lately by insinuating the losses were because of them not finishing chances. Diaz, Jones are just as guilty but no shade for them and everyone bar Mac has been awful for weeks.

It doesn't entitle Salah to fall out in public like that but it does explain his feelings.

30 Apr 2024 20:57:05
Somethings been wrong for a few weeks now, players seem to of downed tools. Maybe it's down to klopps personality at the moment, we don't know what's happening behind the scenes. But it doesn't seem a nice place anymore, perhaps the players feel let down by klopp leaving them whilst in a title race. Not blaming just mo here, never been in his nature before so would love to know what klopp said also.

{Ed025's Note - i hope he said "hey you! you are one of the highest paid players in the world so get on the bloody pitch and perform instead of sulking you prick"..

30 Apr 2024 20:58:19
I thought Salah and mane owed their careers to Bobby.

They wouldn’t have scored without him.

{Ed025's Note - im afraid you all looked at bobby through red tinted glasses JK, he was ok but nothing more mate, flitted in and out of games for me and was a luxury that you could afford at the time with 2 excellent players either side of him..

30 Apr 2024 20:58:49
Also let's not forget mo was a very very good player at roma too, and klopp didn't even want him as his first choice.

30 Apr 2024 21:11:19
My wife is brilliant at lip reading and that's why we have the best spare bed on the market, she thinks it was bought for the in-laws but oh no it was not
1 nil me.

30 Apr 2024 21:45:50
My friend is also a lip reader and was at the game. From his angle he had the benefit of also seeing Klopp. That is what the papers are missing. This is the full conversation.

As Salah's getting ready. Klopp says " I think you need a haircut Mo"

Salah did not take kindly to this as he got a haircut last week. "I'll go red"

Klopp losing it " that would be a ridiculous haircut for you. It wouldn't suit you one bit"

Salah " I'm a grown man. I'll get any haircut I want. "

It was at this point that Nunez interjected and said

" I go ball kick now"

30 Apr 2024 22:17:41
If your manager annoys you just before you go on the pitch, you go and silence him on the pitch.

That’s the deal.

You don’t act the “big I am” on the touchline.

Do your job, perform on the pitch then no-one criticises you.

Arguing with the boss? That’s an argument you’re never going to win.

30 Apr 2024 23:14:15
ED025 has called it . Spot on.

01 May 2024 01:02:48
Exactly Ron.

Jude Nkunku, nobody is saying otherwise. We all know how good he's been and he will always be remembered for it, a Liverpool legend for sure but at the same time this with Klopp what happened the other day won't be soon forgotten either. None of us know what was said but he should never of acted the way he did, it's unprofessional.

Love it, Davey.

01 May 2024 05:02:46
I don't think it is such a big deal Ed25. De Bruyne and Pep bickered more than once on the touchline in the past, but everyone doesn't make a big deal out of it. Plus we don't even know what is being said between Klopp and Salah. Everyone is making a guess.

Maybe because its Salah, and he is never known to be a big egomaniac or having any kind of attitude problems in the past. This is the first time this happen with Salah. And everyone is making a big deal out of it. I can understand the problem if its coming from someone who has attitude problems.

{Ed025's Note - i just think we have to move on now mfahmee, its really dragging on now mate, in my day the 2 of them would sort it out in the car park and have done with it..

01 May 2024 07:14:36
That is all good Ed25. Its just that there are things that is being said about him that is unfair to be honest. Some is even borderline racist. From Liv supporters nonetheless. Its really is shameful.

01 May 2024 08:05:57
Re ed025 - good job money eliminates mental health issues. To be honest I dunno why we don't just pay people more when they seem to be having a hard time.
Dad's died? Come one mate we pay you a lot of money get over it.

I'm being a tad hyperbolic but you can see my point, just because someone is paid well doesn't mean mental health issues, major or minor, don't affect them. It's a silly thing to say. It would be like telling someone to get over cancer because they're getting paid well.

{Ed025's Note - why do you presume that Mo has mental health issues Nevada?, or are you his shrink?

01 May 2024 08:42:29
Can’t say I’ve read anything regarding Klopp or indeed Salah’s race until mfahmee’s post.

I’m sure the Eds would deal with racism quickly and decisively.

Mfahmee, if you suspect someone is being racist you should report it to the Eds directly instead of accusing people (the whole Liverpool supporter fanbase) in a post.

01 May 2024 09:15:27
Klopp said it's "done".
What else needs to be done? Do the fans that had to see it need an apology? 😂 Do they want an apology because Salah was allegedly sarcastic to his boss and they might not get away with it in their job?
Klopp might be unhappy with Salah, his form and his attitude but that incident is "done" and we should move on.

Over to you, Harry and Jude 😂.

01 May 2024 11:24:55
Ed25, not sure Klopp cares about any of that especially if it has already been handled behind closed doors.

{Ed025's Note - i just want it all to end now Oli thats all, i say address the elephant in the room and repair this festering wound mate, its doing the club no favours at all imo..

01 May 2024 11:44:56
It’s like listening to / watching a Les Dawson sketch. It was two grown men having a disagreement and then moving on. The amount of rubbish it has generated in the press and social media is indicative of people having way too much time on their hands a first world problem par excellence.