Liverpool banter 3


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21 Oct 2018 14:49:01
Last season, champagne football but dropping points in the league with a leaky defence. So far this season, average football but picking up scrappy 1-0 wins and a lot tighter at the back.

9 games in, joint top and we've not even got going. Our new players need a bit of time to bed in, though I think Shaqiri has surprised me, he's play ok when called upon.

I personally think certain players do look a bit leggy and the sharpness is not there yet. As the season progresses it will come back and let's not forget, teams are now out to nullify the front three attack so we do need to look at other ways to break teams down, with more goals from midfield.

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21 Oct 2018 19:21:49
Agree 100% Drogie.

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21 Oct 2018 20:51:30
I'll do you one better, Drogie. Klopp and LFC have NOTHING else to prove in terms of how good we are with our football. That has already been clear since Klopp walked in the door, FACT. What we need to do now is become more consistent in terms of picking up 3 points on a weekly bases and being pragmatic and better defensively, is the way Klopp has chosen to do it. It is working for now UNTIL we can sort out our finishing issues. And I ain't buying the fact that we are no longer a threat. If City and the arrogant Pep, was in full meltdown mode last season with us in mind, to the point that he went defensive last week tells you that we are still a threat up top in spite of our issues.

I for one, don't want to go back to the last two seasons here we play brilliant, end to end footie only to drop points at the end cos we can't keep teams out. Dwelling on our current (& temporary) short-comings is just counter-productive, IMO.

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21 Oct 2018 13:17:35
More of a question.
How much influence does Klopp have with our scouting system now?

I like to believe the he is leading/ influencing our style, but would he be directly dealing with youngsters 3-5 years away from stardom or would he be restricted to first team?

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{Ed001's Note - scouting or coaching?}

21 Oct 2018 12:33:25
Hypothetical question for you, ed001 (and others! )

Imagine that Liverpool’s entire squad was fit. And next week, we’d be playing a one off cup final against a completely unknown team. Which players would you send out to win the game?

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{Ed001's Note - it pretty much picks itself, except TAA would be in for Lovren, as I prefer Gomez next to VVD. Front 3 is obvious. Mid 3 would be Hendo, Milner and Keita.}

21 Oct 2018 13:33:29
Gini for me. Over Henderson.

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21 Oct 2018 13:57:13
I second that Benny.

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21 Oct 2018 14:18:21
If it's a Cup Final, then I would play Gomez, Lovren, VVD and Robertson. Sacrifice some offense for defensive solidity. Milner, Henderson and Wijnaldum in midfield (bring on Shaqiri and Sturridge in the second half if we are drawn or behind) . The front 3 is obvious. Just really need to win something now.

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21 Oct 2018 14:36:54
Agree with you Ed001.Did anyone notice the number of times Gomez was caught out of position when Huddersfield switched the play.

Luckily they did not have the quality to punish us otherwise we could have been in trouble.

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21 Oct 2018 14:41:17
My midfield would be Shaq, milner, gini.
Shaq is the missing link between the midfield and the front 3.

with Keita coming on as a sub.

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21 Oct 2018 20:58:47
Drogie, what do you mean Gomez was caught out of position. When the play is on the left, he tucked in with the other defenders which if you have ever played FB (like I did) you would know that. As a result, it is the job of either Salah, Lallana (inside forwards) or Shaq to get out wide right and slam the door shut in case the switch from left back to the right is made. No one was ever there to occupy that space in the whole first half hence, the gaps were wide open. That is not Gomez's fault cos he can't be everywhere at the same time. That prob was rectified in the 2nd half. Please, watch the games closely before slating players for NO apparent reason, man.

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21 Oct 2018 12:20:00
Gomez is having a outstanding season as a centre half why is he forced to play out wide and Trent on the bench when Gomez clearly isn't a full back he offers very little going forward

Gomez half and Trent full back lovren walked back into the team and it's made us worse!

Shaquri forcing his way into the starting 11 for me for the mid week game if firmino played the right pass he could have got on the score sheet.

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21 Oct 2018 12:52:48
I agree Gomez is a better centre half than he is a full back, but that just tells you how good a centre half he is. In the two games Lovren has played we've kept two clean sheets in the league, I don't really believe he has made us any worse, but I don't think we look better with him either. Perhaps there was a game plan employed by klopp in both the City games and against Huddersfield where Trent didn't fit, or he has genuinely been dropped, either way I think we have looked very good defensively and we've not been able to say that for many a year.

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21 Oct 2018 12:56:39
I believe Gomez at full back this week was tactical to help deal with their long throw which accounts for 50% of their goals in the league this year.

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21 Oct 2018 13:01:18
I just think especially against smaller teams Trent offers more on the wing and better balance in the team going forward

But klopps a loyal manager and lovren is now once again a starter after a good end to last season he will play ahead of gomez/ Trent.

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21 Oct 2018 14:22:36
Because firstly, Gomez is in a great run of form and thus needs to play as much as possible, Lovren needs to get back up to speed a bit as we need him, Gomez is a better back up right back than Clyne but the reason why it was changed in the first place is quite simple, to take Trent out of the firing line as he was in poor form and looked shattered.

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21 Oct 2018 14:38:22
I think Gomez is fantastic but was caught out of position twice last night, luckily they didn’t have the attackers to punish us.

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21 Oct 2018 21:06:14
Dezudekidd, as mich as I agree with you overall, loyalty has absolutely nothing to do with Klopp selecting Lovs, IMO. Klopp trusted Lovs even in his darkest days and since last season, he has upped his game with the help pf VVD alongside him. If he did not up his game, he would NOT be playing, end of cos Klopp does not play those types of "loyalty" games.

Lovs has been brilliant overall since Jan, shutting down CR7 in the CL final and being top 5 CB's at the WC so it is only normal that Klopp gets him back in slowly BUT surely even tho, Gomez has been very good. As for errors, Gomez is liable to make mistakes just as any of the other CB's really so not too bothered. Lovs plays cos he has earned the right to to play. Overall tho, I'm just happy that we now have very good (bordering on world class CB's) to pick from.

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21 Oct 2018 10:46:21
Hi ed001

What do you make of Jurgen Klopp's time as Liverpool manager so far and also as him as a manager in general? Has he exceeded your initial expectations?

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{Ed001's Note - so far he has taken the club forward and it has progressed under him to become a club expected to be the closest challenger for the title, but he needs trophies now.

As a manager in general, he has his strengths and weaknesses but overall he is very well suited to Liverpool the club. He fits.}

21 Oct 2018 12:09:27
Interesting second half yesterday at Stamford Bridge, Hazard was pretty quiet and suddenly Chelsea went from vibrant to toothless almost.
Our front three, versions thereof, are being wasteful / unlucky with the final ball.
Incredibly frustrating, no more so for Klopp himself.
It should have ended three or more goals for Liverpool last night.
The Coutinho role was always going to be a miss, whether they revisit that situation remains to be seen. Keita needs to step up to the plate. Apart from a couple of flashes, I’ve been disappointed with him tbh.
An on-form Keita would make a huge difference.

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21 Oct 2018 12:08:45
Is it only 3 years ago this month? Don't forget just how poor that team he took over was.

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21 Oct 2018 12:47:46
Spot on, Ed. The fact that Klopp has turned us around to be title contenders from the rot and mess BR left us in, is quite remarkable. We went from a midtable basket case to contenders. We went from being irrelevant in Europe to being arguably the most feared side in Europe.

The fact is that Klopp is doing the very same thing at LFC, that he did with BVB when he came to them. In fact, BVB were in a worse place than we were, frankly. All we have to do now, is help him finish the job as in, win trophies and leagues you know, like he did in Dortmund. Here's to hoping.

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21 Oct 2018 12:59:08
We were so far away from title challengers it was frightening when he took over. We were behind City, Utd and Chelsea for sure, in danger of being over taken by spurs on a more permanent basis too. We are now 2nd only to city and first 11 wise bloody close to them. Rome wasn’t built in a day, he just needs that first trophy now.

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21 Oct 2018 13:05:22
Klopp said it best in his post match press conference. It's that last pass that is so low in quality amongst the front 3, that is causing the problems for them. A question of timing and confidence. It's probably a matter of time when they start clicking with each other as they did last year. When the last pass does go right (Shaqiri to Salah last night) then we see the results.

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21 Oct 2018 10:31:23
Not the best football yesterday. But thought Salah looked sharper than last few games. Hopefully Firmino and Mane can sharpen up too sure they will just a matter of time. I actually think if Firmino and mane played yesterday we'd of scored another goal as Sturridge wasn't helping out too much.

All in all room for improvement but points wise we have to be happy compared to last season because at this point last season we were 12 points behind city so I'll take this start.

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21 Oct 2018 12:52:10
Spot on, Jordz. Studge did not do himself any justice last night at all with his performance, tbh. I agree that other players were not at their best either BUT at least, they were on int'l duty or coming off injury. Studge does not have either excuse, I'm sorry. All in all, I hope we can get sharper up top cos the chances are being created or the counters are being well-constructed. It is the decision-making and finishing that is killing us. Either way as you said, we were 12 points behind City at this point last season so I won't be throwing the baby out with the bath water anytime soon.

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21 Oct 2018 08:42:47
What your looking thoughts on Henderson or winaldum.

I think Henderson has been a fantastic player for us and it was interesting to see him play the first half the winaldm the second.

Winaldum Imo looks better and more suited to our play. Yesterday was a great eample.

Winaldum has gone from a player most thought would not get a game this year to first choice Imo.

And if that's the case then does Hendo still warrant the captaincy.

What I would love is Hendon to push his game on.

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{Ed025's Note - heres my take ravi (for what its worth) , hendo is nothing special but gives 100% every game, gini blows hot and cold but at the moment deserves his place in the team, fab was bought to replace either one of them but i still maintain that he is a lemon mate, just my opinion of course..

21 Oct 2018 10:32:32
If we're going on performances from day one this season I'd still put Hendo ahead of Wijnaldum but I'd also put Milner and Keita ahead of him too. He's had a few good games but he's not been as incredible as some people make out.

It's frustrating because we know he's capable of quality yet so many games he lacks that quality which I've never being able to understand. One day he'll have a great game the next he'll be invisible for 99% of the match.

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21 Oct 2018 12:55:11
Salah, Keita just got here so that comparison with Milner or whoever, lacks all types of context so that is not fair. Pls, let us compare what is comparable. Hendo is more consistent than Wiji cos as you say, he blows hot and cold. I will not be comparing Keita to anyone until he has been here long enough to be compared with them rationally.

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21 Oct 2018 13:08:02
I must have been watching different games this season then if Hendo has been more consistent. I remember a good performance from him against PSG and decent game against city. But Wijnaldum also played in them games and has turned up for far more.

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21 Oct 2018 14:58:53
I thought hendo was good against PSG but a part from that has done nothing this season. Gini this season I think as been one of are most consistent performers, as for Keita a bit up and down but better than Hendo overall Milner has been class in most games so far. for me a midfield of Gini and Milner and one more but don't think that should be Hendo think it has to be Keita or Shaqiri playing in the Coutinho role.

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21 Oct 2018 18:07:23
That's fair enough Brover, I can't argue against that. Hope you're well mate!

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21 Oct 2018 21:09:30
No prob, Salah. Peace and love, my friend.

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21 Oct 2018 09:54:34
Hendo nothing special ed25? C’mon the lads quality and is our engine when fully fit. Everyone needs an engine. Range of passing is awesome. When fit he walks in to our first team no worries. He’s a leader and we need that quality in our midfield. As for your gini comment I can’t disagree. Far too early to make statements like that about Fab. He’s getting better every time he plays.

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{Ed025's Note - i watched fab quite a bit at monaco and was surprised liverpool went for him to be honest reaper, hendo does graft and you need a player like that in your team but i just think he lacks that bit of quality mate imo..

21 Oct 2018 11:01:51
Do you not rate Fabhino Ed25? I’ve not seen enough of him in a Liverpool shirt to know personally.

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{Ed025's Note - i have seen quite a bit of him drogie but fail to see where he fits in to this liverpool side to be honest, but i have been wrong before...1978 i think it was..

21 Oct 2018 12:57:11
That Fabinho looked very good yesterday actually Ed, really encouraged by his performance. Of course time will tell but I genuinely think he'll be a bit of a gem. And for me I'd go Henderson, great work rate, organiser and can play a pass. Don't think he gets enough credit for keeping the ball ticking over, very rare is he not on hand to take on a pass, and if you notice, where there's a player in space, 90% of the time he gets it spot on, he can't be blamed if there's nothing on ahead of him. In my opinion anyway.

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{Ed025's Note - not all of your players have to be great players istanbul and im sure klopp knows more about football than me but i dont see what fab brings to the table, hendo gives his all in every game and i applaud him for that but i just think he lacks that quality that you need to win titles mate...but we will see..

21 Oct 2018 08:03:48
A couple of questions for posters and/ or Ed's to possibly answer:

1) Is Lallana's time done at Liverpool?

2) Has Buvac's departure affected our style of play?

To answer number 1 I would personally say Lallana should not be selected for us. He is the remnants of the the Rodgers era and looks every inch the Rodgers player - in short he is ill-suited to our game. He is especially out of place when played out wide - I'm not sure why Klopp does it.

I can't answer number 2 because I simply don't know but our style of play does seem to have changed and, as of right now, despite results, we continue to perform at a very mediocre level. Interested in all thoughts and opinions.

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{Ed025's Note - i think lallana is a decent squad player seano and is not up to speed yet due to his injuries, i think you all expect too much of the team mate, it cant be champagne football every week and grinding out results like yesterday is part of a winning formula, my only slight concern would be the lack of quality outside the first team but that can be addressed in january and im sure it will..

21 Oct 2018 08:25:39
I just love that we are not conceding goals. Keep that up and we won't be far away.

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21 Oct 2018 09:23:48
1) You’re probably correct but it’s far too early to judge him. He won't be match fit for a long time.

2) I’m sure it’s had some effect but it’s hard to quantify. The fact is - as Irish Rover points out - we don’t concede as many as last season so there isn’t the imperative that we go at teams 100 mph from kick off. We can play a bit smarter and pace ourselves over the season.

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21 Oct 2018 12:27:09
For point 2) i believe that Buvac left because of our change in style, rather than he himself causing it. We know that the change in style is in an attempt to conserve more energy over the course of a season and has been put forward by the medical team. As i recall it the reason for Buvac leaving was that he felt insulted that Klopp was taking so much advice off the medical team rather than Buvac himself?

While the front 3 haven’t hit top form yet it is clear to me that this is our new way of playing and you cannot say it is a problem or drop off in form. We are joint top of the league with 3 goals conceded in 9 games. Long may it continue.

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21 Oct 2018 13:04:00
OP, Ed01 said that Klopp has changed the way we play to be more pragmatic in order to save ourselves from burn-outs at the business end of the season. Whether that was why he and Buvac had some beef, I don't know (I don't care either) BUT that is Klopp's decision.

Also, can I just say that this whole Buvac talking point makes no sense, IMO. Let us stop building him up into what he is not, please. He like any other assistant, has some input in the way we play BUT he is NOT the be-all and end-all of LFC's playing style. Klopp's assistants are giving a lot of lee-way to make their voices heard and he delegates a lot to them and does rely on their input, as any good manager who is not a control-freak should do.

That does NOT mean that Klopp does not have a mind of his own and his convictions or can't function w/ o Buvac. If Buvac wanted to make us play a certain way and Klopp and/ or Kravietz or Kornmayer disagree, that is a diff. of opinion and nothing more, nothing less. Please, let us stop giving this man more credit than he deserves cos in the end, NOBODY on here knows his true impact on the team to give a better judgement on him, really.

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{Ed002's Note - You are doing Buvac a massive disservice and Klopp needs that level of support which is why Liverpool has Lijnders back.}

21 Oct 2018 14:25:44
Not to do Buvac a disservice but did you not say around the time it happened Ed002 something along the lines of Buvac’s ego being too big and spitting his dummy out?

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{Ed002's Note - No, I said nothing of the sort. At the time, I told you what had happened and that he was gone, but nobody thought I was correct.}

21 Oct 2018 08:58:50
Spot on, Ed25. Not conceding is just as important as scoring. We cannot play the way we did last season and win the PL. That will simply NOT happen. Hence, Klopp has reeled in the ideology of swash-buckling football (which wins games BUT not leagues) for more pragmatism in a bid to keep up with City at least till Feb. and then see what happens. Altho, more improvement is needed, no doubt BUT let's persevere with the team for now in hope for better days. YNWA!

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21 Oct 2018 09:14:05
That's a fair point Ed, we've perhaps been spoiled with our attacking football in recent seasons so a more reserved approach looks worse. You are right though, grinding out wins are what makes champions and we've already ground out a fair few. I hope they can continue to do so but you'd have to think, sooner or later, that performances will have to improve.

Agree Irish Rover think the defence is a big boost. Do think Gomez needs to partner Van Dijk though, looks a much better fit than Lovren who, though he plays good overall, always looks liable to make a mistake. I think Gomez with TAA at right back is the way to go moving forward. The manager, with aims of tightening things up, may prefer Gomez out wide though.

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21 Oct 2018 07:42:44
There's been a lot written about our change in style (so far this season) . Is it world cup hangover? Lack of pressing to try and not knacker the squad for the end of season run-in?, Buvac leaving?, Tighten up at the back has had an effect on the attacking play? Or just plain and simple waiting for the team to click?

I think it's probably a mixture of all points and I'm glad we are joint top of the table while all this is going on, as it continues the hope. Hope that it will click and we turn on the style like so many games over the last few seasons. Hope that we will still be in the fight for the top spot in the last few weeks of the season. Hope that we might even be able to win it.

I used to love watching our games as 9 times out of 10 we would just outscore our leaky defence to win. It was great watching although the defence was always a concern.

Now watching the games I have a confidence about the defence and know we will more than likely score the goal needed to win.

Definitely not as exciting but hopefully more rewarding come the end of the season. Plus, if things do click, boy are we in for a better year than last year.

My only fear is I remember a season start under Hotelier. We went something like 10/ 11 games unbeaten (quite a few draws) and I think we were playing Middlesboro next. Everyone was saying the same as now. once it clicks we're going to win everything etc etc. However, we failed to beat them, results got worse, nothing clicked and I think that was his last season.

Not saying the same will happen, just that we can only hope that it all clicks and hope that we stay in with a shout until it does.

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21 Oct 2018 09:21:58
I remember that season Red All Over, we won the first ten games and were 7 points clear of, I think, Arsenal (only remember because Rooney scored that mad debut goal for Everton against them) . We then crumbled against Middlesborough and proceeded to perform horribly for the next however many months. I do think there was a lot of fragility in that team though, and a distinct lack of quality in key areas - most importantly at that time we won when playing relatively well but were awful when we didn't, and when the opposition where up for it.

The current incumbents seem far more able to grind out results, at least this season, irrespective of their form or opposition. How long it can continue for is the question though - can we just continue to grind out result after result? Or is the quality going to have to come to the fore at some point?

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21 Oct 2018 13:24:31
OP, Ed01 has said the reason why our style of play has changed and it has NOTHING to do with Buvac who IMO, is being made out to be this type of influential genius, something I highly doubt he is or ever was. As for any parallels to Houillier's team, we have a better team than his by far and secondly, we have a much better manager and if anyone thinks "we will win everything when we start clicking" then they are living in Cloud Cookoo Land. You have to earn the right to compete in EVERY PL game and if you don't do that, you will get what you deserve, just like Houllier's side did.

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Review Of The Day 21st October 2018

21 Oct 2018 07:29:01
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 21st October 2018

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21 Oct 2018 08:23:36
Morning Ed,

Sarri is being a bit delusional with them comments isn't he? I mean come on lol that's laughable.

Thanks very much mate, hope it's a good Sunday for you.

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{Ed001's Note - I think he is being honest, they do have a good team, Mourinho is not getting the most from it.}

21 Oct 2018 08:55:42
I'd agree with that Ed mate but what I don't agree with is him saying they might have the best team in the premier league. They certainly have a good team but ours, Chelsea's and City's are the better teams. The best thing for Utd would be getting rid of Mourinho, the best thing for us would be him staying there lol.

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21 Oct 2018 09:11:23
Thanks Ed. I also think Spurs have a better team than Utd. But Sarri is showing respect which is fair play. I liked Poch’s interview. He probably is a genius.

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21 Oct 2018 11:53:29
I really like Sarri, I think he speaks honestly and wisely.
Utd do have a strong squad, they finished 2nd last season. Their subs are quality but I’m happy to see them struggle. For whatever reason.
Probably Mourinho is better off elsewhere.

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21 Oct 2018 13:08:16
Thanks Ed. I agree with The Juicer. I also think Sarri's approach to football and the media, especially the way he handled the situation yesterday is refreshing. Have a great day everyone.

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