Liverpool banter 2

 

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17 Jun 2018 17:40:20
So with Griezmann now staying at Atletico, and Dembele then maybe staying put at Barcalona, do you expect us to still be in search for a wide attacker? i've seen the Shaqiri rumours but it looks like poor journalism to me, and you guys putting it down aswell. I haven't been able to find any specific on the search engine.

Kind Regards
Smedegaard, DK.

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{Ed002's Note - Whatever Liverpool do has nothing to do with Griezmann or Dembele.}

17 Jun 2018 17:53:27
I still can’t see that we were ever looking at Dembele, given his injuries are worse than Fekir and Barcelona would want to recoup the money they spent on him.

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17 Jun 2018 19:13:14
Klopp likes him and Barcelona would likely sell for the right offer. Personally would prefer Brandt if some business could be done.

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17 Jun 2018 19:17:09
We need a back up to Mane and Salah and I don't think Klopp is planning that to be Wilson. If that's correct then we'll be bringing someone in.

I'm not convinced it will be Shaqiri but he fits the profile of someone who's good enough but won't necessarily expect to pay week in week out.

As I say it may well not be the alpine Messi but we won't be getting someone world class to come and be a squad player.

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17 Jun 2018 22:23:33
Shame as Wilson deserves a chance imo.

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17 Jun 2018 22:51:33
In my opinion Wilson needs another year out on loan. I really rate the kid but he has a lot to work on to be playing at this level. One of the promoted clubs for him, get him some decent first team action in the PL because he won't get it here, then come back after next season and hopefully we'll see him shine for us.

He had a great season at Hull but it's Hull not Liverpool he has the potential no doubt but he needs more work, he's still very young and has the time on his side. If he works hard enough I see him playing a vital role at Liverpool in the future but he has to remain patient. Until then, we need to bring in cover for the top dogs. Fingers crossed it won't be Shaqiri.

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17 Jun 2018 15:27:51
So it’s World Cup season, some love it (me included) and some hate it as it’s a different spectacle to club football. But it means there is a bit of a lull in club football as most do business either before and after so I wanted to discuss referees.

I think it’s fair to say that most football fans think the standard of refereeing is ‘dubious’ and cause many results to change due to their decisions. However, I think part of that is due to our ever increasing critical eye on referees. We as fans all want to win. Period. Doesn’t matter how but we all want to celebrate our team winning by the end of the 90 minutes. Now on occasion the referee makes a clear mistake, it happens, and that’s where VAR should be used and only used (I’ll go into a bit more depth shortly) . Then there are other occasions that are 50/ 50’s.

Football isn’t a black and white sport, I. e. tennis (it’s either in or out) the only time it is is when the ball crosses the line and that’s why goal line tech works. Other times I. e. tackles can be argued either way. An example is Pepe and costa on Friday, Costa goes for a 50/ 50 duel with Pepe and Pepe goes down like he has been shot (pet peeve) and we know what happens next. Personally I thought that was fair as football is a contact sport and Pepe should have played to the whistle. I’ve also seen some say it was a foul. Now I except that people interpret the rules differently and that’s fine. Therefore all I think we can ask of officials is that when they make a decision they can back up their decision within the rules. My job is similar, we work within certain tolerances and when it’s outside of these we have to make a decision using our experience. So a ref has to make a call on the 50/ 50 then be able to have the expertise to back that call.

Now there are exceptions, a ref, as I have explained can make mistakes. They are humans and players can make mistakes too. So VAR should only be used when a ref clearly misses something I. e. if they missed the French handball yesterday then VAR should be used. As I’m writing this there was a review for a nothing coming together between two players. This shouldn’t be reviewed as it has no impact on the game. If they want to go down that route there should be no on the field officials and just have a bunch of people officiating on tv’s.

Referees are using it to back themselves up (anyone remember the Liverpool vs WBA game? ) when it should only be used as a fall back, if they are not confident in their decision then that is a bigger issue and maybe need more training. They go through a rigorous training regime to give them the tools to make the tough calls so they need to be brave enough to make them.

Back to the World Cup, I personally think the officiating has been good the only issue has been VAR but compared to what we watch in the EPL I would say it is of a higher standard so where are we going wrong in the premiership?

There are several issues,
We are getting less referees within the game due to social factors, who wants to work under the microscope like they do currently?
Our game is played at a faster pace so harder for a ref to see everything
We only have the English talent pool to pick from.
Everyone has an opinion (this article is proof) . But mainly due to us all having an invested interest in the games. If I’m watching Peru and Denmark for example I am far less critical on the 50/ 50’s then I would be if it was Liverpool involved.
And Differing perspectives from referees, some are stricter then others.

I try to watch my team as an impartial fan but I think most agree it’s incredibly difficult.

So how do we fix the officiating in the English game? Well I would try and open up the pool of referees, the more competition the more likely the quality goes up. Have VAR but rather than the on-field referees having control of when it’s used it is the video official themselves. They communicate only when they feel there has been a clear mistake, none of this checking for a red card because a player is rolling around because a finger has brushed his face.
Allow the referees to communicate after the game, to let us understand the thought process of getting to a decision. Referees differ from person to person some will not want heavy tackles and others will let them go, the sport is not black and white I just want a ref to be confident enough to stick by their decision (unless it’s a glaring mistake) within the rules of the game.

To sum up, we are all football fans and we get frustrated when decisions don’t go our way but it is the sport we love and it’s part and parcel of it. There are deficiencies within the officiating of games but there are solutions, it just depends if the FA are willing to try and help both the fans and officials. As we should encourage people to be referees rather than vilifying every official in the papers because he judged a 50-50 the other way.

Sorry for the long post, just scrolled through it and didn’t realise I had written so much!

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17 Jun 2018 16:55:54
Very long post but good read haha
The problem is technology IMO.
In every aspect of life, technology is making man lazier and lazier as time goes on because we start to rely on it instead of using our natural instincts.
it’s the same for referees and VAR. The more technology in the game the worse officiating will become as they will be falling back on it more and more and not using instincts.

Now, goal line technology is the best example of technology that works because not every competition uses the additional assistant referees on the goal line and those that do, are useless xD

But VAR is effectively taking their jobs away and you mentioned yourself about not having any refs on the field, just watching on TVs.

Referees are under intense pressure, but so too are players too and some get death threats from their own fans who sing YNWA (urg) so they should be able to deal with it.

IMO the human aspect of officiating is what makes the premier league so unpredictable (and great) . Results can go either way with 1 bad decision but don’t we all LOVE it when the decision goes our way when it shouldn’t? Then complain to hell when one goes against us xD
I was going to type more but this is getting long and I lost my train of thought haha.

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17 Jun 2018 18:23:13
I think that VAR seems to be working very well this WC. So far.

If there's a 'grey area' it stays as 'referee's decision' (as per in cricket reviews) .

I'm not certain this is how it works, but it looks as though the VAR team consists of a number of referees and if their decision isn't unanimous that it was a clear and obvious error, then the on-field ref's decision stands. This is sensible.

I also like that the VAR team are able to review footage while the game continues, so even though it is being used, there's only a hold up if a mistake is actually identified.

The hype around VAR and its application by refs all seems to have calmed down a bit since its introduction (i. e. LFC Vs WBA was a farce) . Personally I like it, it will get there and be a very beneficial part of the game going forwards.

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17 Jun 2018 19:19:32
I think it's better than not having it but it could be improved a lot. I expect in a few years none of us will have an issue with it.

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17 Jun 2018 20:04:00
i personally like the controversy of non computerised decisions. Life is full of mistakes and luck so I’m not sure I back VAR for it’s pure accuracy. It could pave the way to sucking the life out of football with complete accuracy. Not everyone’s point of view I understand but maybe just mine :)

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17 Jun 2018 23:34:11
have a ref in each half, they stay in that half, the game is so fast, and getting faster,
while this may not sound great, it would mean that each ref would just cover that half, and should be on top of the game for the 90 mins .

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17 Jun 2018 23:48:27
Ref still has to get the call right. Shown that isn't always the case today.

I prefer it though, fouls and dives we creep out the game.

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17 Jun 2018 15:22:13
Good day Eds and Reds, question for the Eds, when the new club rankings are out, do you expect Liverpool to move into the top20.

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{Ed002's Note - The rankings have Liverpool having risen to 22nd.}

17 Jun 2018 16:59:37
We'd wanna be careful. keep rising up them rankings and they might actually let us in this big breakaway league in a few years.

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17 Jun 2018 21:19:36
What was our ranking previously?

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17 Jun 2018 15:20:46
Question for eds001 do you think we will sign a new keeper and a attacking midfielder in this window as I no the (fekir) deals off. Personally i would haved liked the roma keeper Allison but that's never going to happen in my opinion just wonded your thoughts.

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{Ed001's Note - you know that for a fact?}

17 Jun 2018 15:45:05
Sorry edds 001 I thought the fekir deal was dead in the water? In my opinion is don't think Allison wants to come and the money roma want don't think we will pay it that's why I asked your opinion.

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17 Jun 2018 16:07:50
Read the posts Marv, nothing can be sorted now until after the World Cup.

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17 Jun 2018 14:09:46
I can see exactly why Ed02 gets frustrated with LFC fans. How many times have the eds said that the transfer process isn't as simple as what fans think it is. Fans are so fickle. How long have the eds been telling not to take your information from the fat kid from Bolton. The eds never said the Fekir deal was off but fans keep asking them is it back on.

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17 Jun 2018 12:11:09
Brewster has signed his first professional contract with the club. Goes totally against what I was told by someone within the club a few months ago but I'm happy and hope he can have a successful career at the club.

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17 Jun 2018 12:25:02
Yes a few reports suggesting this is true. hope he gets a chance to shine on loan somewhere competitive or a taste of first team football with LFC.

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17 Jun 2018 12:26:30
great news.

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17 Jun 2018 12:26:51
Why leave Klopp and this Liverpool team. I can see him competing with Solanke this season to be Bobby's back up with Sturridge, Origi and Ings leaving. Before anyone says that's not good enough Mo or Mané can also play through the middle if needed.

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17 Jun 2018 13:03:23
Not “signed” yet, but agreed on terms. Hopefully a formality now 🤝.

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17 Jun 2018 15:40:03
I think it's great news but only if we give him the opportunity to play, we have had some great success at junior levels as a country recently and we need to follow germanys example and be brave enough to allow them the chance to develop in the premier league, my fear is none of the top teams will and players like Jayden sancho and ademola lookman (if he stays in Germany) will be better placed to transition into the national side.

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17 Jun 2018 17:09:00
Has to be patience on the young players part aswell. they may learn more training everyday with world class players at the top teams in England than they will getting (some) game time in Germany for example. Lookman and Sancho have done well there but there also Reece Oxford who has struggled for game time at Moenchengladbach. The very best of the youth like Sancho, Foden, Odoi and Brewster will rise through the ranks anyway because they are that good. Sancho will probably end up back at City anyway don't they have a buyback clause?

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17 Jun 2018 18:17:19
Excellent! Would love to see him get a start this season.

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17 Jun 2018 11:32:29
Morning everyone first time poster here, don't know if it's been discussed before, but it's obvious we are looking for someone to Replace Coutinho i. e the interest in fekir! Obviously not straight away, but does anyone feel given time it would/ could be a role Ben Woodburn could excel in?

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17 Jun 2018 11:40:25
I think he would flop in that role but I am negative.

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17 Jun 2018 11:47:48
It depends on whether he likes spreadsheets.

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17 Jun 2018 12:16:48
He needs amble senior team exposure or a full pre-season.

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17 Jun 2018 13:01:23
Good enough to take Lallana's place in the squad.

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17 Jun 2018 13:20:00
I think he’s quite similar to Coutinho in a number of ways, although obviously a few years behind in terms of development given his age.

I think he will be fantastic for us in 2-3 years time but needs game time but for next year I hope he gets a full year on loan and lots of game time in a solid championship team like Harry Wilson did as that would probably be best for him.

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17 Jun 2018 15:13:18
Coutihno is Brazilian for starters also he played in Brazilian league, then went too Italy played for inter then went too espanyol in Spanish league so he played in 3 leagues around Europe an Brazil, this is before he got too Liverpool, woodburn simply doesn't have the experience that coutihno has had, an hasn't really been given the chance to shine let's not forget he is only 18yrs of age, I think Wilson more likely too break through.

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17 Jun 2018 17:55:09
I agree with what you are saying but in my original post I did say if given time?

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17 Jun 2018 10:19:21
Just watching the West Ham away game from last season on lfctv and looking at the line up. Quite conceivable that our starting 11 against West Ham first up next season will see the entire back five and midfield with different personnel!

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{Ed002's Note - Just try and see next season as a year of transition and don't worry about it.}

17 Jun 2018 10:32:46
Haha that’s funny. Just can’t believe the turnover of players we have nowadays. Football has changed so much since days of only 14 players representing their team in an entire season. I know it’s more squad based now but at some stage we need to try to keep a team together for longer to bond better. Why do you think things have gone this way ed, the large turnover of players each season?

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{Ed002's Note - Bad choices, too much money, managers who make dumb choices, owners who want to buy success, etc.. For other clubs I don't know.}

17 Jun 2018 11:00:00
The recruitment of players has massively improved in the last couple of seasons. We now choose targets in positions we need and that fit a style and system.

Remember signing Adam, Carroll, Benteke, Balotelli, Allen, Downing, Mignolet etc?

I wouldn’t say our turnover of players is anywhere near as high as it was under Rodgers/ old committee.

Yes the transfer and agent fees paid are eye watering and some of the unsettling/ negotiation tactics/ illegal approaches are still areas we can improve upon.

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17 Jun 2018 11:54:29
Thanks ed, it’s amazing just how much wastage there is financially!
Flypelicanfly- I agree that our decisions seem to be improved but turnover of players still remains high. Wouldn’t be surprised if we see 6 new players coming in again this summer and maybe 10 going out!

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17 Jun 2018 13:00:12
LOL @ Ed002 and “transition”.

Some have already done that ed, saying we can give Karius at least another season to settle. 👍.

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17 Jun 2018 14:02:22
Lol “ for other clubs I don’t know”.

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17 Jun 2018 08:58:16
Hi eds, just a general question on scouting/ recruitment of players during major tournament like World cup or Euro or Copa America or even African nations or Asia cup.
Do these tournaments make a difference to recruiting of players?

Do scouts or recruitment specially step up their scouting during these period? Or players specially step up to impress these scouts? I remember Diouf, Diao and host of others were recruited this way.

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{Ed001's Note - scouts will go along but it is no different really for them. It is the managers that tend to take more notice of players that play there as they get to see them against a better level of competition. As for players, they step up because they are playing for their national team.}

17 Jun 2018 10:42:33
Or in England's case get dragged down by the weight of the shirt.

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17 Jun 2018 11:00:11
I don’t think it’s the weight of the shirt at all.
It’s that they know that every single mistake will be analysed 100 times over, they’ll get ripped to pieces by “fans”, tabloids, social media and fans forums.
Effigies will be burnt baring their name, death threats, wives getting abused.
All because they get sent off or let a ball slip past them in a game of football.
I don’t even know why they bother.
I’d be on a nice Caribbean island for a month instead.

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17 Jun 2018 11:50:08
What you've just put their effectively equates to the weight of the shirt.

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17 Jun 2018 15:47:28
Tristan, don't they get that playing for their club too, sadly?

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17 Jun 2018 17:45:15
Thanks eds. you're top class.

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17 Jun 2018 08:57:40
Morning Ed001 sound's like the game went well and there were plenty of laughs. I wonder if any Irish red's on here would be up for travelling to the game next year I know I would. Ed mate when you get a chance would you do a transfer update for us please just to see if anything has changed. Have a nice morning Ed.

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{Ed001's Note - ken (ok wrong kind of red) flew over from Ireland for the game BiL. As for updates, there is nothing new that I know of at the moment.}

17 Jun 2018 09:17:57
If I'm still in Ireland at that stage I'd be well up for it Barry.
I hear ed001s team could have done with the Irish Nikolai Zigic as a plan b!

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17 Jun 2018 09:19:01
Defo be up for going over next year as well Barry. Watched it on FB looked great fun, well done to all involved.

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17 Jun 2018 09:42:56
Ok the two Shane's let's see if we can get any more Irish red's on board. Thanks for your reply Ed.

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{Ed001's Note - welcome mate.}

17 Jun 2018 11:08:51
Ya can count me in Barry.

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17 Jun 2018 12:19:07
I'm in Barry.

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17 Jun 2018 14:11:28
Depending on timing yup would definitely be up for it. Looked like a great day. Well done everyone involved 👍😎.

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17 Jun 2018 15:02:59
If you accept Northern Ireland reds im sure you might be able to get a full team. Go over there, play them of the park, then drink them under the table😆.

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17 Jun 2018 15:12:56
I can sense an International match in the makings lol.

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17 Jun 2018 17:11:14
Could well be Shane mate.

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17 Jun 2018 17:14:36
Northern Irish+Southern Irish=ALL Irish Rover mate👍.

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17 Jun 2018 17:45:03
Might as well, I’d be up for it. Perhaps an Ireland vs England game if we get enough.

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17 Jun 2018 18:13:34
Was just thinking the same Dub.

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17 Jun 2018 22:37:17
Sounds like good craic Barry.

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