Liverpool banter 2

 

Use our rumours form to send us liverpool transfer rumours.


(single word yields best result)
 

20 Sep 2017 17:39:28
There are a few too many people enjoying themselves saying I told you so about the Ox. This guy's first training session was just two weeks ago and, due to the heavy schedule, it's all been match prep and match recover since.

Klopp needs time to instil his philosophy on him, to get him playing his style. I'm still confident he'll prove his worth with us and we'll have another story like Lallana winning over the fans. The ox gets a pass from me till Christmas. By then I think the boo boys won't be so vocal.

Agree7 Disagree6

20 Sep 2017 18:25:35
Many people on this site would rather be proven right than see Liverpool succeed.

Agree10 Disagree2

20 Sep 2017 19:17:27
I would love to be proven wrong by the OX but I don't think it's going to happen.
Lallana was one of saints best players and captain when we signed him, it's very different.
I really just don't see how he improves out squad and only stops our promising young talent from getting a game.
Just my opinion and I have full faith in Klopp I just don't get the OX love in.

Agree3 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 19:29:40
Did any of you go to the Tranmere match in 2016. Manes first game.

No time needed there. Didn't need to learn anything.

Oxlade has 120 games experience in the prem. Comes from a champions league team. What does he possibly have to learn when crossing a ball? When taking on a man? When making a ten yard pass? He was and is awful. 4o million are you kidding me.

Agree4 Disagree2

20 Sep 2017 19:52:26
Mane hadn't just spent 12 months playing left wing back in a team with no confidence, and the 5 years prior to that being used as a bit part player by an absolute imbecile of a manager.

Give the bloke a chance at least!

Agree2 Disagree3

20 Sep 2017 20:06:43
Careful having an opinion on AOC as some on here can't see the wood for the trees.

Agree1 Disagree2

20 Sep 2017 20:09:05
Top, the difference was Mane was brought in to play his natural game. AOC had been playing Wenger football for the last five years. He needs to unlearn that and then start playing Klopp football. It will take time but I'm confident well be impressed by the results.

Agree0 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 20:42:05
Never been a fan of OX BUT he is an LFC player now and will get m support. Those slating him should give over and move on.

Agree1 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 20:53:28
Bingo

Does that mean you could abuse players until they are signed by Liverpool. Lol! I remember you tore his undi and boxers for fun when he was at Arsenal! Lol
Now you realize the difference between having an opinion and supporting. They are totally different my dear friend!

Agree1 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 21:53:21
Do people not understand that under the right manager and with the right coaching methods players can actually improve?! We seem to have this football manager mentality where each player has their own score for each attribute that can't be changed. Just give the lad time to work with the team and coaching staff he said himself he's come here to improve. Let's not kill him before he even starts!

Agree0 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 22:09:58
I still can’t see that Oxlade can contribute anything meaningful to the team. He’s a very ordinary winger at best, his signing looks particularly stupid when you consider how awful our centre back options are and how weak we are in midfield.

Agree1 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 22:59:09
Like our defenders and keepers are improving with every training session and game under Klopps reign Ings. That what you mean.

Agree0 Disagree0

21 Sep 2017 00:24:35
ACO is a player who has always been full of promise but never delivered on a regular basis. I think and he himself has admitted confidence is a big issue of his, now I'm not making excuses for someone like that he makes enough money blah blah blah etc etc etc but I do think klopp will manage to unlock something in him. Now I'm not expecting a mane but a very useful playe rlong term.

Klopp did him no favours playing him in a team like that if he is low on self esteem he'd be bette restarting against a team we'd hammer get him up and ready instead he set him up for a potential failure as has happened and eveyone on his back. Almost everything he tried failed but atleast he tried something in the opposition half the only other player to try was woodburn and our left back. Everyone else was happy with sideways passing.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 16:27:35
Still waiting for match review.

Agree0 Disagree2

{Ed001's Note - I know, I know! I am so sorry, I have just not had a chance to finish it. Every time I open the page to continue typing the phone rings.}

20 Sep 2017 17:50:28
Sorry Ed I'll stop calling.

Agree2 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - cheers Barry, that would be great. I know you love to hear my voice but your heavy breathing is unnerving.}

20 Sep 2017 21:49:27
lol ed.

Agree0 Disagree0

21 Sep 2017 00:25:25
I can't tell if the original post was supposed to be in jest or not I sincerely hope it was.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 16:39:10
Stand, i missed your reply earlier.

I wasn't implying United are doing things wrong due to their squad age. I am a big advocate of having a blend of youth an experience which you have got perfect right now. You do things differently is all.

In 3-5 years when the likes of Micky, Mata, Fellaini, Ibra, Carrick, Valencia, Young, Herrera and the like are gone, you won't bring through any of your own players under Mourinho, or even sign young players to develop. Mourinho's idea of a young player is an already established 22/ 23 year old who costs £30-90m.

Therefore when all those players are gone, he'll want mega bucks to replace them. By contrast, we need to have a crop of cheaper younger players already coming through to take over so we don't have to scratch about for bargain basement stop gaps like Matip, Milner, Lambert and Klavan.

Genuine question; do you think Rashford will hang around playing as a winger when he is a better striker? He'll never get to play there though because Mou would rather pay Ibra massive money and pay £80m for Lukaku. I see Rashford going to Spurs or Arsenal in a few years time purely because he will be replaced by a big money signing for instant success.

I'm not for one second saying it doesn't work by the way. You'll be an elite club for a good few years doing that, but it is unsustainable (hence why Mourinho always leaves after a short spell as manager at every club without exception) . He never plans for a smooth transition into a next generation because he never plans on staying anywhere for very long! So when the time comes that a lot of players are too old, he will jump ship and leave a mess for someone else to come and fix. United have a revenue stream which practically makes their resources unlimited so they can afford to go through that cycle every 3-5 years, and Chelsea and City have investment money from over seas that we also cannot match.

Klopp has to plan for the future because we can't afford to buy our way out of a transition in 5 years time. Your transition takes a year with a good manager because of the cash you have. Our transition takes 27 years and counting because we're skint 😂

We need to have a constant conveyer of younger players from our own or other academies so that we can supplement the squad with them and only have to go big on a few players a year. United pay more wages and transfer fees for squad players than we can afford on players for the starting 11! We need the likes of Ward, Karius, Arnold, Gomez, Robertson, Grujic, Can, Woodburn, Kent, Origi, Solanke etc because probably only 4 of them will come good and then only 2 of them will stay with the club! We live in a different world.

United can afford to gut the team every few years and just pay for a new one. We can't. It's no criticism of the way you are doing it mate. It works and gets much quicker results than the way we are doing it, but it is also far more expensive and unless you have the cash, you have to do what Liverpool and Spurs are trying to do. You are not our model for success. Dortmund and Athletico Madrid are.

Hope i didn't offend you mate. I was just trying to explain to some of our fans why we have to have patience and do things differently to yourselves. The last time we had a manager (Rafa) who tried to compete with United and Chelsea financially the club almost went bust due to a wage bill and debts it could not finance. People have short memories and forget that very quickly though.

Agree3 Disagree3

{Ed025's Note - good post that MK..

20 Sep 2017 17:33:41
Great post, MK.

Agree6 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 17:36:31
Liverpool were in trouble because of H&G and the interest they leveraged against the club. You do realise that Rafa had Lfcin the CL every season bar 1 and generating very substantial income due to the reasonable success he had in it?

Agree7 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 17:58:28
Excellent post and very true MK.

Agree3 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 18:18:29
Rover, Rafa had over 50 players on the wage bill at one stage. For his time he also spent a lot of money trying to play Chelsea and United at their own game. His squads were always bloated and largely full of average players because he didn't have the money he was spending. Rafa was as much to blame fir our financial predicament as H&G. He just got off with the fans because he loved the club and brought us relative success compared to the 15 which preferred him. It didn't work though and it was completely unsustainable for a club with our revenue stream.

We are not there yet. We can get there, but it takes time. We are 20 years at least behind Man Utd on the commercial side of things, and about 10 years behind Chelsea and Arsenal.

City are not at there yet either but that doesn't matter when you are owned by an oil oligarch with rich fiends to help you bypass FFP rules.

Agree4 Disagree4

20 Sep 2017 18:37:20
*15 years preceding him* auto correct 😐.

Agree1 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 18:42:09
Mk. Liverpool gained there biggest profit circa £8 million in 07 (i think) . It took Lfc another 7 years to make another profit (£900,000). To my memory they also made a net £30 million profit in the next season only to be wiped out by £36 million interest because of H&G leverage. Liverpools wage bill was the 4th highest behind United, Chelsea and Arsenal. So it was in line with their standing at the time. You have clearly disregarded the revenue Rafa brought into the club with his CL success (circa £20 million a season) .

Agree4 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 18:26:26
Cracking post.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 19:07:11
Also Rafa signed 54 players in his time which is a lot but he sold or released 70 in the same time. So im not too sure where you are getting this squad of 50 from. In only 1 season (04/ 05) did he sign more players than he released (1 more) .

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 20:05:35
No idea of the facts and figures so i won't dispute them. Whatever the books said, Rafa wasted a lot of money. Itandje, Cavalieri, Degen, Johnson, Pauletta, Skrtel, Plessis, Dossena, Aurelio, El Zhar, Babel, Leto, Keane, Riera, Pennant, N'Gog, Voronin, Cisse, Morientes, Bellamy, Aquilani etc.

Don't let a few financial statistics paper over that buddy. Can't argue with the official figures and Rafa did earn a lot of revenue through CL qualification and progression. But he also wasted a lot of it trying to sign too many players. Although he sold as many as he signed, most of his sales were at a massive loss, and you have to consider the wages and agent fees we must've blown on such a constant squad rebuilding every summer.

If the club actually broke even most years, fair play but those figures sound wrong to me, considering the club was running at a £1m a week deficit when FSG took over. And it is impossible to deny he wasted money, even if he was making as much back. Regarding the 50 man squad, i remember reading it on here once but no idea if it was from an Ed or another poster. But we apparently had over 50 players on first team squad salaries. So some of them were probably over paid youth prospects to be fair.

Agree1 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 20:41:04
Keep up the good work mk I am starting to really enjoy your work. Not quite Harry level but I take my hat off to you.

Agree0 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 20:48:48
Can't comment on those nos., Rover BUT we do know this much: Rafa spent money and recruited over 70 players all together, most of which were average or simply poor. Simply having 50 players on the wage bill is damning in itself and is unacceptable. Rafa tried to play a game he was never going to win cos he had not enough cash to back it up. It tooke years for us to get out of that mess and we are just regaining our footing financially at this point BUT we lag behind the other rivals considerably. That is his fault and his only. No one else.

Agree0 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 20:58:04
Cheers Walter!

Agree0 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 21:51:08
Im no huge Rafa fan, but you can't ignore that he bought us some good players aswell. Alonso, Garcia, Reina, Agger, Bellamy, Aurelio, Kuyt, Arbeloa, Mascherano, Lucas, Maxi, Sterling.

Agree1 Disagree0

21 Sep 2017 00:12:36
MK, no offence at all mate. I always enjoy your posts, I think your one of the better posters to be honest. I obviously mistook what you were getting at. And I agree, we clearly are on anther level to Liverpool. I hate when other people label us the same as City and Chelsea though, not that you did, just in general. Obviously city and Chelsea have cash from sugar daddy owners. We're different and we earn our cash.

I genuinly think both Rashford and Martial are special talents mate. And I think both will be at the club long term. I personally don't want Zlatan back, but in reality it's only 6 months, and it's an option if Lukaku is injured or needs resting, although I'd rather play one of Rashford or Martial through the middle if Lukaku is out.

The big difference with Jose is he is much better in the market that the last two fools. When you looks at the signings Moyes and LVG made, only Mata and Hererra were good signings really. Under Jose, we've had Bailly, Miki, Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, and then Zlatan on free and Lindelof. The squad is so much stronger this season. We have spent a lot but it's spent well imo.

I suppose the question is will Klopp be given that time to build a squad? People comment on Jose leaving clubs after 2/ 3 years, but at clubs like Madrid and Chelsea your out the door with no silverware. I think he'll stay longer at united. If Klopp is trophyless again this season how long will be be before the fans turn, or fsg decide enough is enough? Interesting times ahead anyway mate.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 14:22:46
Klopp has a major major problem. Well several actually, the most prominant ones being the team cannot out score thier opponents, this was something a number of people (me included) assumed would happen and it would offset the poor defending. But 10 goals against and 4 goals for in the last 4 games is very worrying considering the number of chances created. No out and out goal scorer to put away the guilt edge chances is costing goals and games. Three of those Robertson crosses he put in in the first half hour should have been put away last night.

The second major issue is, and we all know this, defending. Not going to rake over the obvious short comings but Klopp needs to swallow his pride and undersatand he needs a defensive coach that can drill and organise better than he or the current one can. Its very well saying you are sick of conceeding soft, second ball goals, but there must be something happening or not, in training that means this is just not getting through to the players. An out and out defensive coach may well do a better job at drilling and implimenting new ideas that improve defending.

Third is the midfield. Henderson would not start in any other team that finished top 5 last season, let alone captain them. He is average at best, as is Gini. Can is very promising but wants to leave. There is a lack of creativity and leadership and that is a major issue. You could have trown a blanket over the three midfielders yesterday, all doing the same thing, and not very well. No one seemed to be charged with staying back. Crying out for a bit of flare for one and a leader for another, also a tackler would help.

Liecester is now a huge huge game on saturday. Vardy will be back and could make mince meat out of the back four. If, and I think it is a very real if, the team replicates that display, and we loose that could set the rot in so deep it could take a while for it to go. There seems to be very little confidence at the moment and Klopp needs to recognise the glaring issues in front of him. Pass pass pass no end producut, conceed. That is what is happening game in game out now. Needs to change fast.

Agree9 Disagree6

20 Sep 2017 14:52:47
Your first point i agree with. Without Mane and Salah we struggle to score. No idea why he dropped Salah with Mane banned, as we saw in the second half vs City that without either player we lack any serious goal threat. I can understand Klopp wanted to give kids a chance though.

On your second point, again i agree. Not necessarily that we need a defensive coach, but there is clearly an issue with our players taking responsibility defensively. I think Klopp should wield the axe more brutally when players shirk out of challenges and tackles in some games just to make a point.

On your third point i completely disagree. Henderson was wanted by Man United under Ferguson, and by Tottenham so he clearly would get into another top 4 team. He is a very under rated player who does a lot that goes unnoticed. However he is really struggling for form recently so I'd personally drop him for the weekend and i think Klopp will. He is not a bad player though mate. I have also started to question his leadership though. When we are playing well i think he is a good leader in that he keeps everyone focused and helps out less experienced players by talking. However when things are going wrong or we are struggling badly he doesn't seem capable of tearing into people or inspiring them to give an extra 10%. I think he needs to be instructed by Klopp that he isn't there to be everyone's best mate and that he needs to give his team mates as much stick as he gives the ref. He has it in him but he is holding back.

I agree though that Leicester is a big game. Klopp will be questioned by some if he rested most of our best players and then still loses at the weekend. After this game though Mane is back, Coutinho should be at full fitness and then we have to kick on. A bad week cannot extend into a bad month or the chances of a title challenge are gone in my opinion.

Agree5 Disagree6

20 Sep 2017 15:38:01
sadly it could get a lot worse before its gets better, we are a so predictable atm our record at Leicester under klopp is woeful, Saturday has now become a must win game, however another defeat is probably most likely, another season without a trophy looks to be on the cards, klopp needs to be ruthless with the players who are letting him down, only salah and mane should feel safe. great post as usual MK.

Agree1 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 15:54:55
Igor Biscan was wanted by most of the top clubs in Europe when we signed him. ;)

Agree3 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 16:03:46
Thanks for the reply MK. I just feel Henderson seems lost to me and that is making his game weak and makes him look like he's worse than perhaps he is. He doesn't know what to do, where to go on the pitch or how to direct traffic. You know who I think would be ideal now, and im ready for the abuse, Lucas. He would sit, direct things and wouldn't be affraid tonsaynit how it was on the pitch.

Agree2 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 16:06:14
Hey. No Need ;)

Agree2 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 16:11:41
Agree with both first points as well, MK. I do think it is time the players stood up to be counted. It is all well and good blaming Klopp for this or that BUT frankly, the players' pride should come in here. Klopp cannot do everything. The players' pride should be hurt enough to get out there and play for respect and get it done. Players only meetings should be called for (happens all the time, in all team sports when things are not going well) at this time cos it is high time players started managing themselves. I know they care about the club cos against all odds, they made top 4 whereas most (and some of our own fans) thought they would not make it. They should rise up and defend their manager, the club and their pride. It is when the chips are down that the true warriors rise up. This is that time.

Agree1 Disagree2

20 Sep 2017 16:50:11
Completely agree about Lucas. Nobody seemed to notice it was him who stopped the slide at the back end of last season. His forward passing was also vital as Henderson does tend to go sideways a lot. Not without purpose, but he just doesn't take risks. Lucas was willing to make a calculated risky pass from time to time. Massively under rated player who like say, we currently miss dearly.

Agree4 Disagree1

{Ed025's Note - a young lucas maybe MK, the one that left was a liability because his legs had gone mate..

20 Sep 2017 17:44:07
I don't rate Henderson but as ed 01 days who else would you make captain? Milner? Doesn't get a game. Coutinho? Doesn't want to be here, so the captaincy doesn't bother me so much besides it's not just up to the captain to grab the players by the balls the keeper growing up was always the most vocal, you did what he said he was the one player who could clip you around the ear and you'd say sorry, we don't have that, we don't have any communication in the midfield, although I'm not a fan of Henderson I have no issues with him being captain as stupid as that sounds.

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 18:11:12
Says who, Ed25? If his legs were gone, how was he a key component to our making the CL last season when Klopp changed the formation to make us less penetrable? You say his legs were gone BUT is still doing it at Lazio and had no problem shutting down your awful mob led by the pathetically awful Ross Barkley (who I doubt is a footballer, to begin with) in his last derby at Anfield. Sorry, Ed. That had to be said.

Agree0 Disagree3

{Ed025's Note - im not defending barkley bingo, but for me lucas was just not up to the job, hes alright in serie A where its slow and boring mate..

20 Sep 2017 22:59:10
To be honest Lucas was never quick in the first place, hence he'd get caught quite often for pace but as a midfielder he knew how to cover a defence.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 14:16:36
Thanks for the response yesterday Ed001. It was interesting watching the game yesterday with what was spoken about in mind. The players seem to be unable to take initiative and klopp looked exasperated that they weren't able to translate whatever his instructions were on to the pitch. Do you think the way forward is to simplify the game plan, giving players more defined roles? Or do you think we have the players at the club who are capable of playing with more in game intelligence and we'd be better off persisting with the current system in the long run?
Cheers.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - we clearly do not have players capable of figuring it out, which is why recruitment is key. The problem with giving players more defined roles is that it becomes potentially easier for the opposition to defend against. If you don't know which player will make a run, you have to prepare yourself for both eventualities, but if you know it is only one of the midfield who will break forward, you can shadow him closer, block off the runs or even man mark him if you set up correctly. It is a trade off. If we can find the right players, then recruit them and stick with Klopp's system. If we can't, then we will have to adapt and become more rigid.}

20 Sep 2017 14:39:22
Do you think we have many players at the club currently who could excel if we made the right additions? Lallana and firmino stand out to me, but is there any others who are struggling because of who's around them and would improve with more intelligent team mates? (Sorry I hope that makes sense) .

Agree1 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - Gomez I would say is defo one. I think the problem is that I would really be struggling to name another, possibly TAA though.}

20 Sep 2017 14:40:39
Does the recruitment staff need to be looked at again? Or would that just cause more issues?

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - some parts of recruitment need overhauling defo.}

20 Sep 2017 15:00:48
Been saying for ages an outside face should have been brought in as sporting director to do a review of the whole recruitment dept.

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 15:29:53
What would you do Ed mate?

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - a sporting director would be a great start I agree. Someone to take charge of the whole recruitment process and ensure it is done correctly.}

20 Sep 2017 15:47:53
Would JK work with one? Thank's for your replies Ed.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - he did at both Mainz 05 and Dortmund.}

20 Sep 2017 16:11:50
We have a sporting director, question really is whether Edwards is up for the job or not.

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 16:13:46
Hopefully someone within the club might suggest that option to him.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 16:17:13
Ed, Klopp showed that he could be rigid when need be as he switched the system last season to become more protective of the back four with Lucas Holding and Can helping when he is required. This led to us being more solid as we knew our forward line would score goals. Should that happen now with more define roles? Ed has said the pros and cons of doing that so it is not that easy.

Also, Ed is showing that coaching and management is not as black and white as people think and his first response proves that point. This is why I and many others, don't just come out to moan and moan as there is a lot of things to be understood behind the scenes when a coach makes a decision. Keep those response coming Ed as I am getting well-informed as to why things are the way it is and why Klopp does or not do, what he does or not do.

Agree2 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 16:17:13
Ed, Klopp showed that he could be rigid when need be as he switched the system last season to become more protective of the back four with Lucas Holding and Can helping when he is required. This led to us being more solid as we knew our forward line would score goals. Should that happen now with more define roles? Ed has said the pros and cons of doing that so it is not that easy.

Also, Ed is showing that coaching and management is not as black and white as people think and his first response proves that point. This is why I and many others, don't just come out to moan and moan as there is a lot of things to be understood behind the scenes when a coach makes a decision. Keep those response coming Ed as I am getting well-informed as to why things are the way it is and why Klopp does or not do, what he does or not do.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - cheers mate.}

20 Sep 2017 13:47:18
One of the eds please. Didn't Klopp at Dortmund have a solid defence and a prolific scorer. Why can't he replicate that at LFC? That's what we need. It's really frustrating.

Agree1 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - it is not that simple. It took him 3 years there to build, and he had a much better starting platform + less competition.}

20 Sep 2017 14:58:26
Dortmund probably have better supporters too who are more willing to give a project time to develop and less likely to constantly abuse their own players.

Agree3 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - very much so, they were on the verge of bankruptcy when he came in, with Bayern light years ahead. So they expected nothing and just supported, like Liverpool fans used to.}

20 Sep 2017 15:22:46
He played differently there. The pressing was the same but he played with an out and out forward in a 4-2-3-1. The wide players didn't play anywhere near as far forward as Mane and Salah. Reus and Blaczykowski are very good at shooting from outside the box so they cut inside to shoot. Mane and Salah are better in behind the opposition or poaching in the box so they cut inside to run behind the defence. Different kind of wide players entirely. With them being further forward though we need a striker more adaptable and able to drop off to create space in behind or link up better, hence Firmino instead of a Lewa/ Auba type striker.

It is his midfield we need to replicate. He had a dedicated attacking midfielder such as Kagawa/ Gotze, a dedicated playmaker such as Sahin/ Gundogan, and then a dedicated holding midfielder such as Kehl/ Bender. They all knew their roles as they were clearly defined. It is clear he wants Coutinho as the attacker if he stays, Keita as the playmaker next season, and he is giving Henderson every opportunity to adapt into a holding role. If Hendo can't he'll either give Gini the chance, or go out and sign someone who can play there, because Can doesn't want to play a holding role.

With his defence, Dortmund actually weren't as solid as people keep making out. Having a proper holding midfielder helped, but he played with Pizcek and Schmelzer who virtually played as wingers; similarly to how Moreno and Arnold play. He also converted Hummels to a centre back and initially Hummels made a lot of mistakes (like Gomez is) . German fans give young players more time though and Subotic befire his injuries was a monster of a defender. It is clear Klopp wanted Gomez and Van Dijk to be his long term centre back pairing but it didn't happen this summer sadly. What made his Dortmund defence able to cope with individual errors though was the fact that he didn't rotate. It was the same back 5 every week until Subotic got injured and his defensive solidity fell apart. They looked like getting relegated due to a plethora of injuries in Klopps last season, but he did turn it around and finish 7th.

However it is the goal keeping situation i worry about most. For years at Dortmund he stood by Weidenfeller, who was at times horrific to watch. He was so bad Hummels used to stand on a post for every free kick within shooting range because he didn't trust his keeper to get across his goal quick enough. I really hope he doesn't do the same with Mignolet. Ward and Karius are clearly better.

It takes time to build what Klopp built at Dortmund. If you take a step back you can see what Klopp wants though. And it looks good on paper. I think we just need to keep the faith and long term, Klopp has a proven record of building a successful team. We have bought in a manager who builds steadily for sustainability though and then half the fan base are screaming from the roof tops about us still being a work in progress. Anybody with two brain cells to rub together, knew what we were getting with Klopp. And everyone was happy at the time. So we need to let him finish the job before losing our minds.

Agree6 Disagree5

20 Sep 2017 16:26:15
MK, you beauty. Brilliant post. Also remember that he could afford not to rotate as The German footie season has way less games than the PL. Ed is also right that the fans at BVB were elated that Klopp took them over cos they knew where he found them and are forever grateful for what he did for them. Klopp once said that he never set out to win the league BUT to just improve the team and get better every game. With the patience of the fans who were well aware that BVB of 2007-2008 was not the BVB of 10 years prior that won the CL with Paul Lambert. They knew they were no longer a force and accepted it as it was better than going into oblivion.

I wish our fans would be like them and support and bear with him through this building process mistakes and all, cos he has ideas and is trying to implement them cos they are good plans BUT if we keep going into meltdown each time a result does not go our way, it won't happen. Look at the CB issue. He signed Matip as a stop gap. He wanted VVD and it did not happen and many are moaning that he should have signed a CB. Why would he sign another stop gap when the stop gap we have is in crisis right now? See what I mean?

Remember that if Klopp leaves today, he will find better clubs than us (Bayern, Barca) . Everton would take him tmrw and sack Koeman. But will LFC find better than Klopp right now? Well, there's always Woy and Big Sam.

Agree3 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 16:43:06
Ok, so I came across a Dortmund fan while travelling and he said while Klopp was in-charge, no matter how many you score, there is always a hesitancy in conceding. It was typical of his playing style. Stressful but exciting is what he said.

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 16:54:40
football is a results based industry MK, if klopp had managed to win a trophy, that plus finishing 4th would have bought him some time, the question for me is this, how patient are FSG prepared to be, we know the supporters base has no patience, we have been starved of trophys for so long and each year without the title just makes it worse.

Agree2 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 18:23:49
Would this be the same FSG that stuck by Rodgers despite a dreadful end to the 15-16 season where Liverpool finished 6th and lost 6-1 to Stoke? The same FSG that viewed Klopp as their ideal manager and gave him a 6 year contract? Klopp is here for the long haul and any Liverpool supporter that expected us to win the league this season is a buffoon!

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 18:43:36
Spot on Bingo and Smeg head.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 18:28:31
KK, Patience is relative. BD were patient with Klopp as they knew where he found them when he came to them. They were just happy that a manager who cares about them deeply, was coaching them as they were on their way to football purgatory a few years before them. People talking about us winning the title should open their eyes and smell the coffee. We ain't all that, bro and we will not usurp the two manc clubs and Chelsea in one window just cos Conte won it (with a team that won it two years prior) and LC won it (that will never happen again at 5000 to 1 odds) . We are setting ourselves up for failure.

Did Rafa win the title in the 6 years he was here? No! So what is the story with Klopp being on borrowed time after one full season? Rafa won trophies that kept him in a job BUT tried to spend like Chelsea and Utd ato win the PL and tho he bottled it IMO, we almost went bust. Clearly, we will not be doing that ever again. We better realize that we are in the Spurs league right now who only spend money when needed and bring players through unlike the two manc clubs who can drop 300m every season and still can't not win the league. If we have waited for 27 years, what will another 3 or 4 years (hopefully) under Klopp do to us if we are getting CL footie and winning a trophy here and there? Chelsea went 50 years w/ o winning the PL until Roman showed up, not saying we should do that BUT context is needed. Klopp is doing his best and patience is needed as he trying to bring better players in to make us better by going for VVD and nabbing Naby. I know patience is rare BUT what can you do?

Also, who said he was short on time, exactly? You say had he had top 4 and a trophy, that would have bought him some time. Care to explain that thinking as I have never heard the Ed's say anything like that or do you have inside info to support that point?

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 19:37:57
FSG have proved during their time as LFC owners that they are pretty trigger happy when it comes to firing people.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 20:54:42
Not really, Ron. At least for managers, Woy was fired immediately for obv. reasons. KK was fired cos of the Suarez issue when he made the players wear those pathetic tee shirts. He was a goner from there even after e won a trophy and nearly won another as that was a PR disaster. Also, had they been trigger happy, they would have fired BR a minute after we got thumped 6-1 at Stoke BUT chose not to as they could not agree on who would take over. As soon as they found one in Klopp, he was shown the door with immediate effect regardless of whether he won the derby or not.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 13:16:33
I thought we played ok last nite at times, but sadly lads we will concede goals every match playing the way we do. We play 433 with 8 attacking and 2 defending. It's fine when the other team is attacking us cause r 433 turns into a 451 and we look solid enuf, the problem is when we r attacking and lose the ball we only have 2 defenders at the back. Think we need to invest in a proper holding midfielder some 1 who likes defending and doesn't want to get forward in every attack. Klopp won't change formation so sadly until we get rite players this problem will continue.

Agree2 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 13:33:53
I did put up a post regarding System and players and how they should compliment each other. Our system demands certain type of players otherwise you will see the struggle.
If Klopp doesn't want to change the system then fair enough but he should man up and buy players who fit in! He should also drop players in need!

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 13:52:31
To be fair Harry, he did try.

He wanted Keita and VVD. A midfielder with the power to get up and down for a full 90, and a centre back with the pace to play in a high line.

He didn't get them, but he tried. He is giving Henderson every chance to prove his fitness and adapt to a holding role. He's showing a bit of loyalty to our club captain. If you don't want us to show players loyalty, then you can't also expect the players to show the club any loyalty!

I have no doubt that if Henderson cannot stay fit and adapt to the role by the end of the season, he will probably be phased out next year.

Don't chastise a manager for having patience and faith in his players though. He doesn't have faith in Mignolet or Lovren before anyone tries that on, hence why he has tried to replace them both.

Agree2 Disagree3

20 Sep 2017 15:01:41
Oh MK! You are making me emotional and that bad guy 😄. I give it you over this one! It's not that I don't like him MK. I do!

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 16:30:50
Klopp has a clear idea of what he wants and what players he wants to fill it as in the way he went after Salah (I know 3rd choice BUT who cares right now), Mane, Naby and VVD. These are the core players he wanted and wants to fill in the jigsaw. He got all globally BUT VVD which he will clearly go for again. Also, Lallana's injury is NOT helping right now as our midfield 2/ 3 are too similar in nature. Lallana offers diff. things that clearly, our team is lacking right now. We just have to keep the faith and stop this manager bashing cos it is not helping esp. when the Ed's have told us what Klopp is trying to do which I agree with and I'm ready to wait for him to come good. We ain't won the league in 27 years so what will waiting another 3 years hopefully, change?

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 19:40:47
I'm sorry lads, I like Klopp too but if you haven't got the players to play the system and the transfer window is shut then you have to change the system.
You don't say, "ah well, I tried and sabotaged my own efforts, so we'll play this way and forget the results".

A managers job is to get the best results out of the players at his disposal and if that means not defending with a high line then that's what you do!

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 20:58:01
But we don't defend deep either as we are not good defensively under pressure, Ron. You have to look at the nuances involved as context matters. Teams who defend deep normally have players back to protect the defence. Klopp does not play that way and never has, like it or not. Can't teach an old dog new tricks. Not saying I like that but just saying it is not as cut and dry as you think. Ed01 has said as much based on the info he has given.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 21:19:42
A good manager can adapt to his circumstances.

If you're saying Klopp can't do that then I'm afraid you're saying he's not a good manager.
You have to be versatile, managing teams is not painting by numbers, you have to be clever enough to work out solutions to your problems.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - Jose Mourinho just moulds the team to the exact same template he always uses, he is a very good manager. Brian Clough didn't adapt either, he built the team the way he wanted it to operate. It really depends on the circumstances Ron.}

20 Sep 2017 21:57:02
But Klopp has, so far, failed to mould his players to play in his system. Either that or his system is not suited to the English game.

I just can't work out why he doesn't protect the back line. He even said in his PC that he's "sick" of conceding these goals. So why not do something about it. Every outsider looking in can see it, it's as though Klopp is blind to it.

Even his signings baffle me. I know he wanted a winger and I know Salah is doing well, but why not look at the biggest weaknesses first? Did we need Oxlade Chamberlain? No, we needed a new keeper and new defenders or a defensive midfielder.

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 12:50:16
Ed01 has said on numerous occasions that players today don't have the ability to think for themselves on the pitch and to take responsibility for changing situations on the pitch as this has been coached out of them.

Last night was a great example of that. For the first goal when the ball was cleared from the set piece only a little bit outfield our 3 midfielders ran out. Out of the box and upfield. But they ran past several Leicester players and when the 2nd ball came back in Gomez and Klavan had 5 Leicester players to deal with. Gomez saw the danger and stepped back to cover. Some say he played the Leicester players onside but there were so many of them there that he couldn't take the risk that one of them would be onside and score.

When the goal went in our 3 midfielders were outside the box with no Leicester players within 5 yards of any of them.

For iur midfielders to not have the intelligence to not gallop upfield out of a defensive position until possession is secured is worrying.

Agree5 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 13:04:35
Fitzy the midfielders rush out because of how we defend set pieces not just corners. In my opinion one of the biggest faults with our defending is we bring everyone back to defend them which allows opponents the ability to stack up in the attack without worrying about defending the players left upfield ( i know we are a quick counter from situations like this) this stops us stretching them and they just concentrate on the cross. Last night Grujic wins the header in among our midfielders in our box but they rush out because they have to close the second ball down too you might aswell say they are on double duty.

Agree2 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 14:05:26
And they missed the second ball all together! It was a pleasant surprise to see someone winning the header or first ball! But then the second ball is as important as first ball! Which is what you retain in possession!

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 15:11:32
Its not hard to understand if Klopp just says to the deepest midfielder hold position on the edge of our own box or man mark, Henderson was about 10 yards behind the play for the first goal, same as Saturday, the centre of the 18 yard box had about 3/ 4 yards space empty, shocking.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 16:34:18
It 1s a combo of things in my opinion. Someone should have been in charge of the defensive line as the last man, screaming OUT as soon as the ball was cleared. That did not happen hence, Gomez stays back. One can say he should have rushed out BUT I say a leader should have been out there to usher everyone out if we are indeed playing the offside. Well, since we have no leaders and I doubt if the players even communicate at all with each other, that did not happen.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 12:33:58
Is ot just me or wasnt klopp not really interested to win last night. The changes suggested he wasnt concerned aboutwinning. Blamed the defenders because fans are allready blaming them for everything. can't come out and say bot really interested in a small trophy can he?

Agree3 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 13:02:04
trophy is a trophy and this cup was our only realistic chance of silverware. We will not win the Pl or Cl, so Fa cup is the only other hope left for us. another good reason to like this cup is because kids get a chance to play in them, now they won't play at all.

Agree2 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 14:13:28
Crazy horse, so your suggestion then is don't play the kids in the cup; Play the first choice players so that we can stay in the cup and give the kids a chance?

Just accept that we played a fair few young players, a couple of new players, a couple of players returning from injury, and then padded the rest of the team out with squad players. We were giving them a chance to stake a claim in the first team and aside from Ward and arguably Robertson they didn't do it. I did see enough from Gomez, Solanke and Woodburn to look forward to them progressing under Klopp though. I also thought Chamberlain looked okay at times in between playing terribly, but he was trying way too hard to impress; attempting things not natural to his normal game and over hitting passes, crosses and shots because he wasn't calm enough. It'll happen for him too though once he is comfortable in the side and Klopp has had a few months to get him back firing.

Agree1 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 14:39:56
I want tony pulis as manager or defensive coach at least we will think defence 1st, it seems it's impossible too fix problem.

Agree0 Disagree3

20 Sep 2017 16:38:12
Hailstones, then forget about us scoring the amount of goals we do and the fluid football we play cos Pulis will have Mane and Salah playing as extra FB's like he has Mclean and Phillips doing.

As for the OP, you can't have it both ways. You say you want us to stay in the Cup and say we should have played our starters. Had we done that, won the game and our starters look jaded on Sat, you would be complaining as asking why Klopp did not field a diff. team. You say the kids should get a chance and when they do and they lose a game, you still complain. Make up your mind, mate.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 18:20:18
Was just a joke meet chill ya beans would like him as defensive coach.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 20:58:58
With you on the def. coach tip, Hail.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 11:48:58
Good morning Ed's!

Still recovering a bit from last night, and trying to stay optimistic for the rest of the season! (hard though! )

With sackings becoming more prevalent in football, with people like De Boer going so quickly after joining Palace, as well as fellow supporters already muttering #Kloppout. What would have to happen at Liverpool that would make you really feel Klopp deserved to go? E. g run of results, poor transfers, media/ tapping up?

Agree1 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - personally it would be if he lost the dressing room.}

20 Sep 2017 12:29:13
One thing is certain if he doesn't sort the defence he's a goner.

Agree5 Disagree2

20 Sep 2017 12:31:19
When everyone is fit Dean, we could potentially line up with Ward, Arnold, Gomez, Matip, Robertson, Henderson, Lallana, Coutinho, Mane, Firmino and Salah. We'd still have Karius, Lovren, Moreno, Gini, Can, Chamberlain and Sturridge on the bench as well.

Even with a slightly weak defence, that team has the firepower to beat anyone in the world. So keep the faith buddy!

Agree4 Disagree8

20 Sep 2017 12:38:21
well said MK.

Agree2 Disagree3

20 Sep 2017 13:04:44
its not only about firepower Mk its about the balance, we all hope that Kloop will turn this around but just naming players and waiting for their return does not assures anything. and its lallana we are taking about not Cristiano Ronaldo or Messi.

Agree2 Disagree1

20 Sep 2017 13:14:33
Lightweight in midfield and weak in central defence. You can't just go out hoping to outscore the opponents. No team has won the league without having an organised defence and strong midfield and we have neither.

Agree2 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 14:09:22
Correct Crazy Horse.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 14:17:01
It's not about it being Lallana. It is about it being a different kind of player to Henderson, Can and Gini. He will make us a more balanced team. The midfield is flat without Lallana or Coutinho. It will improve us more defensively than offensively in a round about way because Henderson will become the dedicated defensive midfielder.

Don't be deliberately obtuse.

Agree0 Disagree3

20 Sep 2017 15:03:45
Hendeson is ever a dedicated defensive midfielder not he would ever become one! I suggest you to withdraw the money on him MK. I have seen many players like you and I can assure you he would never become one! Trust me on this mate. Let him become anything else! No worries S.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 16:03:48
"Even with a slightly weak defence, that team has the firepower to beat anyone in the world"

For the majority of the season, yes it does. But when they have off games like at home to burnley or palace this season for example, or when they have 'on' games like at home to sevilla and away to watford, in which we still didn't win, just having the firepower isn't enough to win the top competitions.

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 16:01:07
You don't know that for sure Harry. Nobody thought Scholes could adapt as he got older. He was absolutely useless at tackling. Didn't stop him becoming the best holding midfielder in Premier League history. He learned to position himself well, started to dictate the game, his range of passing increased ten fold etc. He never quite got the hang of a slide tackle but he got good enough to rarely need to go to ground.

Klopp has clearly seen potential in Henderson to play there and I'll support the decision at least until January when we can actually do something about it if it's still not working.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2017 16:41:36
If you want Klopp out, buy the club and sack him yourself. Till then, calm down and support the team and to those muttering the #Kloppout crap. Be careful what you wish for. Barca, Arsenal, Bayern and even Everton will take Klopp. What very good manager would take us after he leaves? Woy or Big Sam perhaps? Get a grip!

Agree0 Disagree2

 


Liverpool Banter


Liverpool Banter 3


Liverpool Banter 4


Liverpool Banter 5


Liverpool Banter 6


Liverpool Banter 7


Liverpool Banter 8


Liverpool Banter 9


Liverpool Banter 10


Liverpool Banter Archives

 

Posting / Reply Form

To post you must be logged in with a username. Please Log In or Register for a username.


 

 

 

 

 

 
Log In or Register to post

User
Pass
Remember me

Forgot Pass