Liverpool Banter Archive October 31 2017

31 Oct 2017 16:04:25
Hi MKS and daredman just to let you know you had some nice feedback on the Southampton site.

01 Nov 2017 00:38:14
Ed001 i enjoyed what adam had to say. What are your opinions on what was said about the deffencive induviduals?

{Ed001's Note - I thought he was a little harsh on Karius, he did not make as many mistakes as he suggested, it was his dalliances on the ball that caused all the moaning rather than errors in holding onto the ball. There were errors holding onto the ball, but they were certainly not every game. The problem was his getting caught dwelling on the ball was happening often enough for it to be a major worry. Then you add in a couple of errors in handling in one game and the media spotlighting it, as Liverpool were in excellent form at the time and they love the chance to drag anything good down.

He was a victim more of perception caused by the media, as it was far too early to judge him. The problem is that the media has a lot of power, how they analyse things on MOTD or Sly Spurts affects the vast majority of views. A good example is Fraser Forster, for years I have been saying he has a problem with his footwork and he is an awful keeper, but most people would tell me I haven't a clue. And I do mean years as Ed007 will tell you I was saying it when he initially went to Celtic all those years ago. Only this season have people agreed me about him, purely because the media have noticed it and begun to highlight it on their analysis of matches.

Other than that small point, and it is very small, I feel he was similar in thinking to myself. Though I would probably be a little more harsh on Gomez, like MKS though I feel it is inexperience and would not swap him out. In fact I would prefer him to be making these mistakes now so that he can learn from them. If Lovren was a similar age, I would have no issue with his inconsistencies, in fact I would be glad to see him making the mistakes now, so that he can learn and not end up being this inconsistent when older. Sadly Lovren has obviously been protected as a defender when younger and not had the chance to develop and learn from them.}

01 Nov 2017 06:35:52
Cheers for the feedback Ed. Thanks for reading.

Oh and I'm glad you enjoyed it Billy!

{Ed001's Note - welcome mate.}

01 Oct 2017 07:11:06
Thanks for letting us know ed, it's nice to have positive comments.

01 Nov 2017 08:23:40
Agree with you a little on Karius - and even if we dallied a big early on he was already learning as he was releasing the ball far quicker after those first few games.

I don’t remember him dropping many apart from the Bournemouth one which was a big mistake but hardly enough to crucify the guy. I feel much better with him coming for a cross than Migs.

01 Nov 2017 08:52:34
Ed, I agree with you on the Karius tip and I posted the same response to MK's brilliant article on the GK's but it never got posted. Karius may have had an issue with his handling BUT what MK did not mention was that he was just recovering from a broken hand in preseason so that may have affected him.

Even if he made a couple of mistakes, it should NOT warrant the abject and shameful abuse he got from the media and some of our fans as he is a young GK trying to make it in a new league and at a big club. We all say that young players like Gomez, TAA, Woodie and Grujic should play so they can learn from their mistakes. But when it comes to Karius, the rules suddenly changed. That was dreadful and the fans and media (with a manc and a sellout ex red) as flag-bearers.

Karius is a better GK than Migs, that much is clear. He is built to play the Klopp way to a tee. It is no coincidence that whenever Karius plays, the back line seems more sure of itself hence, he has near NO saves to make. He is very confident in his ability and tho, that may come off as being cocky BUT I would prefer a GK like that than Migs who lacks confidence hence, he dithers and has useless decision-making.

Karius nor Ward don't have that issue. Karius' shortcomings can be worked on and can be coached as he is already fundamentally sound in many GK areas. Same with Ward. They kust need to play more so we can see who is better. Migs? He's a lost cause. I will agree with MK that some fans just wanna see Karius fail just so they were right to bully him cos he was crap. That is the part that hurts me the most.

01 Nov 2017 09:24:32
I really like Karius. If my article came across as harsh then i will apologise! That is a very good point about his broken hand by the way Loris.

I would love him to be made first choice. Though he struggling with his handling initially, I've not seen that same shakiness this season at all. So perhaps he is over it and it was just a combination of nerves being at a new club, and having just broken his hand.

One thing i love about Karius is how good he is when a ball goes in behind our defence. I think he is a great sweeper keeper, and would back him to stop most 1 on 1 situations.

He is still only 23/ 24. A goal keepers prime is generally 30-35 so he has time yet. I just Klopp backs Karius sooner rather than later.

01 Nov 2017 23:30:36
Spot on, MK. No need to apologize as there was no bad in tentions in your article which was brilliant regardless. The boy is talented and to me, should be playing, end of. If he can't do the job then at least we will know that he is not the guy after giving him a real shot at the job. Nit seen much of Ward BUT I think Klopp does not rate him and will not trash Karius for a GK tho talented, that he did not sign. Klopp wants Karius back in BUT is afraid of the backlash he will receive if he makes a mistake. That in itself, is a scathing indictment on how dreadful some of our own fans are, rooting for one of our own to fail so they can say, "I told you so". Pathetic!

31 Oct 2017 12:04:37
Hi eds

Dont no if you are aware at all but I was just thinking to a few injurys in Lovren and Coutinho. Do you no if they should be available for tomorrows CL game?

{Ed002's Note - I am pretty sure that they won't be.}

31 Oct 2017 11:51:43
If coutinho is to go in hope it is to PSG and we get draxler and enough cash to purchase centre half and goalkeeper.

31 Oct 2017 11:59:02
Why a new keeper? We have Ward and Karius who haven't had their chance yet. Draxler I wouldn't want, his injuries concern me.

31 Oct 2017 12:02:41
Barca bound Jimmy boy. Draxler will be available but we have shown zero interest in him so far. We have 3 keepers mate and as regards to a centre half, that is an absolute must regardless of who we sell.

31 Oct 2017 12:16:06
Where are they going to get the cash for him? Monico will want to be paid for mbappe.

31 Oct 2017 12:28:21
Don't need Draxler.

Let's talk Kimpembe plus cash deal. That makes more sense to me.

Coutinho needs to be replaced with a striker. And my choice is Belotti.

31 Oct 2017 12:31:14
I'd prefer he go to Barcelona and we get Iniesta for a season or two. The likes of Woodburn, Ejaria, Arnold etc could learn so much from him, plus his passing range and killer pass in the final third is still world class.

He could have a similar impact to Gary Mac in my opinion.

31 Oct 2017 13:00:03
I think that is an excellent idea mk.

31 Oct 2017 13:19:02
Psg doesn't have the same pull as barca. But I wouldn't be surprised if he hooked up with his pal neymar. For some reason losing him to Paris seems worse than losing him to barca. You never know, they may not even go in for him again? Yeah right. I think lfc fans are going to be pleased with his replacement.

31 Oct 2017 13:48:42
Iniesta for Coutinho? hehe, that's pretty funny. Isn't he 50? and just signed a life time contract at Barca? Gary Mac played all his life in England and knew the league inside and out, suggesting a 34 year old who never played outside of Barcelona to replace our best player is pretty hilarious. Sorry Mk.

31 Oct 2017 14:16:57
Sorry but Iniesta for Coutinho would be a really bad idea. He doesn’t have the legs or the two physical ability to compete in the premier league and Barcelona would be getting a player who will only keep getting better and we have a player who’s only got a year or two left at best? No. Not for me. There’s not one player in the Barcelona team who I’d want in exchange double the amount that United paid for Pogba and all of it up front thanks. Or sling your hook.

31 Oct 2017 15:37:41
I've always thought the argument of physical ability was always a bit odd. You just have to look at someone like David Silva, he isn't strong, he doesn't have pace, but year on year is one of the top performers in the premier league, due to his passing and knowledge of the game.

I wouldn't want Iniesta, I don't think his heart would be in it if he came here and he is a bit too old now, but if you think one of the greats of his generation would flop on the Prem because of his physical ability, you're seriously deluded.

31 Oct 2017 15:55:40
I never said Iniesta to replace Coutinho. Salah has already replaced the Coutinho of last season, and Couts has barely played this season. He certainly hasn't played well. I'm Just saying, if Coutinho goes to Barcelona I'd try get Iniesta as part of the deal. Even if he was just a personality around the place to bring a winning mentality, and then played our European games.

If Coutinho went to PSG, I'd ask for Thiago Motta, on a short term deal for his experience. Different position to Iniesta, but the same level of experience and title winning pedigree.

Bearing in mind that Milner will probably leave next summer, Klavan may well leave, and Lallana could even go, our squad will be very young and severely lacking in experience. If the 3 above were to leave, our most experienced player left would be Henderson, Lovren or Sturridge at 28 years old, and all 3 of them could leave or be replaced in the starting XI too! The team needs a better balance of youth and experience. This is the main reason Spurs have won absolutely nothing. Great young players, but no winning mentality. If you go through their team the only players they have to have won league titles is Wanyama in Scotland and Vertonghen in Holland. They are serial bottlers because they see second as an ultimate achievement. If you put Zlatan or Ronaldo in that Spurs team they'd win the league. They wouldn't even have to play regularly, but they'd completely change their perception of what winning really is.

United signed Zlatan at 35 years old and his character, experience and leadership was massive for them on and off the pitch. Iniesta doesn't have to play every game to have an impact. I also don't think the league change will affect him. He is arguably the best player of the last decade and he has never relied on physique. Hr is too clever and reads the game too well. I'm not even suggesting he is a realistic option. Just that if we have to have a player in return for Coutinho, Iniesta or Motta would be my picks. We could ask for them without a significant reduction in the transfer fee paid, and then invest the money on the defence.

I wouldn't suggest a 34 year old with injury troubles as the direct replacement for the main man in our team. I just look at our squad and see a bunch of inexperienced kids who have won nothing. There is no winning mentality in there. If we lost Milner, Can and Sturridge that would leave us without a single player who has a major European league medal.

Forget Iniesta for one second. This isn't even about him specifically. How do you even hope to win a league title with players who don't have the mentality of a winner? It is near impossible. Dortmund, Leicester and Atletico are the only teams in recent history to win a major league with a young team with little to no history of major title success.

If we want a like for like replacement for Coutinho (player who can play attacking midfield or in the front 3) then the likes of Lemar, Isco or Koke would be better options as they are also a winners of a top 5 European league. Sadly we can't easily attract winners in their prime. We may need to surround potential winners, with experienced winners and build our own winning mentality. Hence my suggestion to have Iniesta's personality rub off on the likes of Woodburn.

Winning is a habit. People underestimate that. Football games can be won in the mind before kick off. Are we aspiring for top 4 for the next 5 years with a young team? A team which will be dismantled every year by Barcelona and Man City? Or do we want to start properly challenging? Never underestimate the impact of having that kind of Character in the dressing room.

It's all just my opinion though. Just thought I'd explain my logic because on the face of it, getting Iniesta in for Coutinho does sound ludicrous. I did not mean as a direct replacement though. It'll never happen anyway. It was just a "i would love it if".

31 Oct 2017 19:28:30
Iniesta is old news, even tho I think he is actually better than Messi in terms of raw skill and ability. Where is PSG going to get the money from for Cou? They are desperate to sell their top earners in order to balance the books before FFP comes calling next season BUT the players in question (lucas, Draxler, Pastore, etc) do not want to leave. Barcelona is where Cou wants to go and he will end up there, IMO.

31 Oct 2017 09:28:15{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Article About Rhian Brewster of Liverpool Football Club

31 Oct 2017 10:11:35
Excellent article Ed's thanks! He's a really exciting prospect for sure.

{Ed001's Note - that wasn't me mate.}

31 Oct 2017 10:42:45
DaRedMan - I enjoyed that mate thanks for that.

31 Oct 2017 10:46:15
Nice article, please send our regards to the person who wrote it.
As an addition, I'm curious to what kind of strategies top clubs use to incorporate academy players into the first team.
First thing that comes to mind is leaving gaps intentionally in the first team so that young players see their opening and work harder to make that place theirs. Kinda what Klopp is doing for Gomez, but that is the mistake we are doing imo. We shoild be leaving gaps upfront since it seems out best young players are attackers, so it should be the other way around.

31 Oct 2017 11:19:45
Great article. Does him justice without over hyping him. Cheers DaRedMan.

31 Oct 2017 12:51:06
Good article bud, does he seriously have 20 goals in 23 games for the U17 that's an insane stat.

31 Oct 2017 13:13:23
We have to make sure this kid gets a chance. Twenty years ago he would be leading the line against maribor.

{Ed025's Note - he would have been -3 then superred.. :)

31 Oct 2017 14:00:39
Lol Ed025, u know what I mean dude.

Good article that DaRedMan. I like the sound of the napoli defender. Joe goes has to be started more at cb imo.

01 Nov 2017 07:07:45
Thanks for positive feedback fellas!

31 Oct 2017 08:16:30
What! Eds25 is you uncle 😂.

{Ed001's Note - no my uncle is funny ;-)

31 Oct 2017 07:43:23
Hi Ed01

How roberto baggio, Christian vieri, makalele, puyol and shevchenko?

{Ed001's Note - Baggio was in but added the others thank you.}

31 Oct 2017 08:22:23
I'm sure he is but just have to double check Ed001 mate is Eusebio on the list?

{Ed001's Note - yes defo on the list.}

31 Oct 2017 08:30:51
Thought he would be, had to be :) cheers mate.

{Ed001's Note - pleasure, I am looking forward to his one as I never saw him play but heard so much about him.}

31 Oct 2017 08:58:35
Me too mate I was reading a few bits about him and I too never saw him play but seemed like one hell of a player, definitely one I'd like to know more about.

{Ed001's Note - me ma always used to go on about him so I am guessing he was top class.}

31 Oct 2017 09:17:04
No doubt mate. I don't know how accurate it is but according to Wiki 580 goals in 575 appearances, that's pretty special. Some people call him the best ever, I can't argue against it because as I say I never say him play but can understand why some may think that going on what I've read which granted isn't alot, so I look forward to your research on him.

By the looks of things he was incredible from 1959-75 then started to decline when he left Benfica but what a run he had! Good luck on the research mate I can't wait for this one.

{Ed001's Note - the trouble with the older players is there is very little, if any footage of them playing to watch.}

31 Oct 2017 10:00:21
Curious to hear thoughts on some older Croatian players and if you think any of them might be able to find a place on"the list. "
Davor Suker
Zvonimir Boban
Robert Prosinecki
Alen Boksic.

{Ed001's Note - all of them make it mate. Class players all.}

31 Oct 2017 10:16:13
You're right, Ed. I read an article about the famed Austrian National team of the thirties that used to be known as "De Wunder Team". It is believed that they were the Hungarian National team before it's time, who swept all before them in that era YET very few people know about them and clearly, there is NO footage of them if any.

On another note, I loved both Vieri and Baggio. Baggio IMO, created the "false 9" or the "9 and a half" position (a striker/ playmaker behind the CF) . He was simply brilliant. Watched him at the 1990 WC where he introduced himself to the world and became the world's most expensive player when he moved to Juve from Fiorentina.

This departure forced a fans protest in Fiorentina as they were furious about his departure. At Juve, he was brilliant throughout and I will always remember him at the 1994 WC where he played a whole WC on pain killers (due to a thigh injury) and dragged a pathetic Italian team to the final and kept Arrigo Sacchi in a job. Finished his career at Brescia (with a certain Pep Guardiola) where he helped create the late-bloomer YET equally lethal Luca Toni (as he played behind him) . They don't call him "The Devine Ponytail" for no reason.

{Ed001's Note - you do realise Dalglish was playing that position in the 70s?}

31 Oct 2017 10:20:07
Great players there, AB. I saw that exciting Croatian team play at Euro 96 and at France 98 WC. They were brilliant from top to bottom (the GK was a bit dodgy tho) . France were very lucky to beat them in the semis and Germany only beat them in the quarters at the Euros with a goal that should have been disallowed for a foul on the brilliant LB Robert Jarni.

31 Oct 2017 10:27:22
Cheers Ed mate!
I honestly thought Croatia was going to win the '98 World Cup.
Imagine Thuram scoring 3 goals in his career, 2 of them in WC semi's against Croatia. heartbroken we were.
Allthough Boksic was mainly injured and didn't play for Cro in big tournaments, loved the player and he had a fantastic reputation in the then super strong Serie A.
Suker's goal against Denmark (P. Schmeichel) was class, what a touch he had with that left foot, too bad he's only a marionette at the football association atm.
My fav was Boban. Down to earth and a mastermind in midfield. And a brave lad with "the kick" when he defended Dinamo's supporters from policemen.
Prosinecki played for both Barcelona and Real 'nuff said imo. even tho he was a heavy smoker haha.

{Ed001's Note - didn't Boksic end up at Boro at some point?}

31 Oct 2017 10:34:43
Oh, I know KK played there, Ed. I just was not as familiar with that role as I would later become in the 90's.

31 Oct 2017 10:34:56
Cheers Loris!
Oh man that brings memories!
Ladic was a dodgy keeper haha.
Forgot about Jarni, what a leftie that guy had and that goal against Germany was class (revenge for Euro's)
To think that Real had him and roberto Carlos for left back at one point. crazy.

31 Oct 2017 10:38:47
Yes he did Ed. They paid top money for him but he was already past his best, getting older and as far as I can recall didn't do too well.
Prosinecki did well for Portsmouth tho, kinda paving way for them to purchase Kranjcar later.

{Ed001's Note - cheers mate.}

31 Oct 2017 10:58:41
Dragan Stoikovic (Spelling) Yugoslav paleyer who played for Marsellies the same time as Abede Pele, Jean Pierre Papin and of course Waddle. He played for Red Star Belgrade prior to that. I always remember watching him and thinking he was special.

31 Oct 2017 11:03:07
Happy to say that I saw eusebio against North Korea in the 66 world cup at goodison treated to some great players that year in Liverpool including pele.

31 Oct 2017 12:00:19
That must've been some experience Tc77 :)

31 Oct 2017 12:02:33
Jones and AB, you guys are going to make me cry with nostalgia with all the Cro and Yugoslavian legends of yester-year. The former Yugoslavian national team in the 70's were known as the "Brazilians of Europe" as they were the most technically gifted players in Europe. Players like Stoijkovic (Pixie was his nickname), Mihailovic, Darko Pancev were part of the Red Star Belgrade team that won the CL by beating the legendary OM team of Boli, Abedi Pele, Jean Pierre Papin (JPP for short) and the like.

When they split into Yugoslavia and Croatia, the Slavs would give us Stoikovic, Stankovic, Mijatovic, Drulovic etc. Croatians like Boban, Suker, Jarni, Prosinecki, Stanic, Boksic, Asanovic. Slovenia gave us Zlatko Zahovic, Miran Pavlin and Udovic (ex Spurs) and so on. Many have wondered what team Yugoslavia would have had had that civil war not ravaged the old Yugoslavia cos clearly, the derth of talent looks endless.

{Ed025's Note - good knowledge there loris..

31 Oct 2017 12:04:16
Eusebio in short, was a true force of nature. It's that simple.

31 Oct 2017 14:03:37
My old man used to talk about him a lot. Said he was the best in the world. He was fickle though and would claim cruyff was the best the next day.

I'm taking it cruyff is on the list ed my mate.

{Ed001's Note - yes mate.}

30 Oct 2017 22:25:29
hi ed's with critchley coming out and saying a lot of the U23's will be loaned out.

where would you like to see the likes of wilson, Ejaria etc go on loan?

{Ed001's Note - the only thing that matters is that they play regularly, so anywhere that picks them a lot.}