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27 May 2018 13:36:43
Absolutely gutted for the boys - not for the result but for the manner of it. I was really hoping for some beautiful attacking play worthy of our run to the final, but while the first 30mins promised much, the way Salah was dragged down and injured, and the way we played so poorly after he left, and watching Karius crumble on the big stage was devastating.

I sincerely hope the whole team can pick themselves up from this, as we seem to be on the brink of something truly special. The biggest disaster of all would be if we let something like this impact the momentum going into next season.

Now for some home truths

- I've always felt the gap between our front three and the rest was ridiculously big. So it proved last night, not just in talent but also in style. Our game relies on Firmino dropping deeper to act as playmaker and to create space, with a pair of wide attackers able to use their pace and movement to take advantage, get into the box and score. We clearly don't have anyone else in the squad able to do that apart from Mane and Salah, and with only one of them on the pitch the opposition can shut us down all to easily. We need a top top wide attacking forward in the transfer window to allow us to remain a threat if any of the front three are injured/ need a rest. It's critical. RM must have been laughing when we took off Salah and brought on Lallana. They knew we wouldn't be nearly as dangerous.

- I've been proud of Gini and Milner individually this season, they've given everything, but it is also clear that they both need the front three to click or we look toothless. Without Mane, Salah and Firmino on fire, our midfield is exposed for what it is - workmanlike. We need someone able to pick the game up and create danger if the front three are struggling, and hopefully Keita is that player. Kroos and Modric schooled us once Salah went off and we can't let that happen again.

- GK. I've been one of Karius's backers, mostly because Mig's was clearly not the answer, but I think Karius will take time to get over this, and the team will need time to trust him again. I think it's critical after the final that we go all out for the best GK we can get to start next season. Karius may come back, and I hope for his own sake he grows to live this down and succeeds in the long run, but unfortunately we can't go into next season with him as our no.1, there's too much at stake

- Finally, I think Klopp missed a trick. It was clear going into half time we were struggling with Lallana out wide. I think he needed to shake it up and put Ings or Solanke on earlier and dropped Firmino into the 10, with Lallana in midfield. We should have realised we lacked any threat, trusted our FB's to push up to create the width and pace instead and really gone for them but that's always easy to say in hindsight.

I hope above all we get over this performance and learn, continue to grow and strengthen the squad. We've had some incredible memories from this season and we can do better still if we don't let this get to us.

YNWA lads. Thanks for a wonderful season and here's to the next.


1.) 27 May 2018 14:53:04
ings wasnt on the bench so you can expect klopp to put him on really can ya.

2.) 27 May 2018 16:55:41
I don't have qualms with lallan being brought on, throwing an inexperienced player into a game like that would be hard. I think we should have matched their diamond and played firmino and mane up top. We know they'll roam around anyway.

3.) 27 May 2018 17:08:03
I don’t think Ings was in the CL squad 😄.

4.) 27 May 2018 18:17:24
Win as a team, lose as a team. Don't care what the results is they are my team and I am proud they made it to the final. "If you can't support us when we lose or draw, don't support us when we win. ". -Bill Shankly.

5.) 28 May 2018 01:07:30
My bad - of course Ings wasn’t an option, i guess the point was, we didn’t have another wide forward that Klopp could replace Salah with, we were forced to changed our system and we went from being on top to being under pressure the rest of the match.

6.) 28 May 2018 07:10:17
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Reality is Klopp watches his players daily and is in a better position to judge. We lost, we will recover and hopefully use this as a great catalyst to go again. Onwards and upwards.

7.) 28 May 2018 08:57:25
Inexperienced players - Trent alexander and Robinson were pretty inexperienced.

8.) 28 May 2018 10:08:10
Woodburn should've been given a spot on the bench and would've been a better option than Lallana. He's the kind of player who can come off the bench and produce a bit of magic, like on his Wales debut for example. The fact we had 3 defenders and 2 midfielders on the bench certainly didn't help. I still don't think Klopp did all he could've to get back into the game, waiting until the 83rd minute and then bringing on Can was pretty pointless. If you need a goal, bring on a striker for dog's sake. Or even Moreno could've had more of an impact, and of the options that were on the bench I'd actually have brought him on to play inside-left instead of Lallana.

9.) 28 May 2018 10:45:30
I would personally have put on Solanke and played Firmino more as a 10 but everyone’s a genius with the benefit of hindsight.

10.) 28 May 2018 15:19:41
Yeah SGRed that would've been worth a shot as well, and of course hindsight is 20/ 20 but my main point is that Klopp did nothing at all. Seemed like he was as stunned as the players were by the combination of the three shocking moments, but that is exactly when you need a manager with a cool head to put any kind of plan in place to try and save the game. Don't get me wrong, I love Klopp, but it's a definite weakness of his.

11.) 28 May 2018 23:34:44
Agree Jurgen Meister. Kloppo gets his subs wrong often when we're losing.

First of all, Ings should've been on that bench as the most like-for-like for the front 3. Of course, not in quality but at least in mobility and versatility. He would've been my choice when Salah webt off injured. We needed to keep the width and stretch them.

Even when we went 2-1 down I would've brought Clyne on at RB and pushed TAA forward. Take Milner off as his legs were done and slot Lallana in the middle. Lallana always struggles playing wide.

Oh well, game is done and I'm not a coach lol.

{Ed0333's Note - so glad your not our coach Greg.




SGRed's banter posts with other poster's replies to SGRed's banter posts


05 Oct 2020 02:56:50
A few thoughts from the game

- This season is clearly going to throw up some very unusual results due to intense schedule, injuries, C.V. related absence etc. which is going to push every team to adapt more than usual

- Having said that, I think Liverpool have looked very shaky in defence recently, and my impression is there are two notable factors

1) Hendo being absent is creating problems for two reasons
- he's been the discipline and leadership that keeps things intense and focussed in midfield, we often look disjointed and uncoordinated in defence without him
- he's also often been the player that's dropped deeper and covered the gap between Gomez and Trent when Trent goes forward. Barkleys two early chances came from down the left, their second goal came down the left, their 4th goal came from getting in behind down the left, Barklays lucky deflected goal came from attacking the space between Gomez and Trent (where Fabinho was trying to move over to the right but it was 3v3 and Hendo would probably have been there), Grealish's deflected goal came from down the left, and his final goal was in behind Trent too!

This is not a criticism of Trent/ Gomez (although they are weaker defensively than VVD/ Robbo) but it's far more an issue of the team leaving them severely exposed on a regular basis (as Arsenal found out too) .

2) I also think the high line is hurting us a bit for sure, but almost more problematic has been the way our attackers and midfielders are pressing so high up in the oppositions third regardless of whether the defenders have space and time. Last season we pressed high when the defence was flustered, but if not then we were often dropping into more disciplined defensive shapes quickly, but this season it seems more of a free for all and pressing regardless of whether likely to succeed. Teams are playing it around us more effectively, creating scoring chances almost anytime they break through the high press.

We shouldn't panic and need to move on from this, but I think without Hendo or someone similarly disciplined on the pitch, we'd be better off playing a 4-2-3-1 to give Fabinho more support as a defensive screen, especially away from home, and we'd surely still have more than enough in attack with Minamino upfront and Firmino at 10. Alternatively we should not be pressing so high up the pitch and leaving our CB's so exposed, as our back 4 is getting torn apart far too regularly when they get around our midfield.


1.) 05 Oct 2020 07:59:07
Did TAA play yesterday? He was invisible most of the game which made me think there must be something wrong with him.

2.) 05 Oct 2020 08:57:30
Yes he was pretty invisible, but then Nico has been torn apart on social media too and it’s no coincidence both have taken so much flak IMO. Neither have been getting any real support defensively and regularly have been left to face attackers 1v1 in acres of space, which didn’t happen very often last season. Almost all of the time Hendo was there to help out, and then often Salah was tackling back too. we had two clear lines behind the ball whereas our current defensive structures look like a scatter dot pattern in midfield!



25 Sep 2020 07:59:40
I know things may have moved on with Thiago coming in, but Grujic really impressed me against Lincoln. Yes a weaker opposition, but there was some real quality, composure and intelligence in his play. still think he's going to turn into a cracking player.

Likewise another outstanding game from Jones, and Minamino getting more and more comfortable every game.


1.) 25 Sep 2020 08:16:37
Never fit Harry simple as that. Waste of wage. I’d rather play Jones!

2.) 25 Sep 2020 08:28:29
Longthing 76 - I am sure Grujic has a good injury record? Are you thinking of Shaqiri?

3.) 25 Sep 2020 08:37:56
Sg agree mate I thought Grujic was good last night but so were Jones and Shaq in there. Then you had Thiago who is world class and we all know what Hendo, Wiji, Fab and Milner offer us in there. Probably the hardest area of the field for selection for the players but I think Klopp has a top 4 vying for the 3 positions for the big games and I don’t think Grujic is one of those.

4.) 25 Sep 2020 08:53:01
Agreed JK. Big question for me would be, would he be able to play good consistantly in the premier league? I highly doubt it but I suppose we can't say until we see it. I just don't think he has what it takes to play at this level just yet, I would love to be wrong on this. I think he'll be heading for another club very soon.

5.) 25 Sep 2020 09:30:47
Agree Salah. Fans and I think (maybe wrong) Ed002 said he did very well in Germany but I never watched him. Only way to know if he is good enough for the premier league is for him to play in the premier league but I think he’s quite far down in the pecking order in Klopps eyes. Last nights performance would have def been a reminder to Klopp but next to him he had Shaq and Jones also reminding Klopp what they can do. Plus Wiji, Fab and Hendo have proven to Klopp what they can do at the highest level over sustained periods of time. Then throw into the mix Thiago who in my own personal opinion is a world class midfielder.

6.) 25 Sep 2020 10:16:13
Sorry I was responding to the lower conversation with Harry.

7.) 25 Sep 2020 09:58:06
Salah what are you basing that on? He's never been given a chance in the Premier League. He's been given a grand total of 52 minutes from the bench. In a Liverpool shirt I've thought he's always impressed in preseason and the odd cup game he gets. He did well in the Championship and played 54 games in Germany where he is very highly regarded, and they seem to know a bit about football over there. I think it's a little unfair to say he doesn't have what it takes if he's never had the chance. The fact is he's a very good midfielder who I believe would be a regular starter and quality addition to the majority of Premier League teams. The only question is whether there's room for him at Liverpool or not.
Eds if he was bought by another English club for 15-20 million would that have any positive affect on his work permit situation?

8.) 25 Sep 2020 12:48:24
Top player who has come on leaps and bounds over last couple of seasons in Germany. Really hope the lad stays if I’m honest.

9.) 25 Sep 2020 13:57:24
'the fact is' Jurgen, what so you say it's fact and it's suddenly fact? Stop speaking nonsense, read my post properly and then comment again.

10.) 25 Sep 2020 14:41:04
I think he’s a very different player to Jones (and Milner, Shaqiri) and he was used far more like Fabinho, breaking down play and controlling the game from deep which I think he did very well.

I think he’d make a very good understudy to Fabinho, but with Thiago brought in to do something very similar I can’t see him getting much game time.

Only way I can see him staying is if Klopps seriously considers using Fabinho at CB much more often this season and needs another option.

11.) 25 Sep 2020 14:45:05
JK, I watched Grujic play a lot in his two years in Germany and he is very highly rated over there. His former manager called him the best player he had ever worked with. Now, think of that what you will even tho, not really bothered cos I know he was great for them cos I saw him play.

The guy was amazing for Hertha and Hertha would sign him tomorrow if they could afford him. The issue IMO, is can he do it the way Klopp wants or even if, can he get a work permit or do we even want to sell him to generate funds? Those are the questions, IMO.

12.) 25 Sep 2020 15:07:58
Sg we’ve got 3 games in 6 days next week and only 1 fit first team centre back. I think Fab will def be at centre back for at least 1 of those.

13.) 25 Sep 2020 15:28:51
Rm I’d be happy for Grujic to stay mate and get game time this season. I’m sure his performance last night left a reminder in Klopps head on what he can do. We have the luxury of having an excellent squad now and long May these selection headaches Klopp must have continue.

14.) 26 Sep 2020 04:24:11
Red meister that's not a fact that you state hertha Berlin would sign him in an instant if they could. In January they spent 70 million. Over 20mil on 2 players and 17mil on another. Toussart plays in midfield similar to grujic and they forked out nearly 25mil for him. Why didn't they pay that to buy grujic instead?

Naby keita was much more highly rated in his few years in germany and even at a younger age, granit xhaka came to England after impressing in that role for a few seasons in his early 20s. For me the telling factor is klopp has never seemed to want him in his squad for any season. He's 24 now and we've currently got a midfield with more depth than ever. Over the years klopp has added wijnaldum, AOC, fabinho, keita and thiago to our midfield for big money instead of trying grujic. Emre can and lallana were also preferred.

He can't even get his game for Serbia and only has 8 caps all of which were in friendlies. He wasn't even used off the bench in their recent games and it's not like they have a wealth of midfield talent over the last few years.

I'm not bashing him or saying he's a bad player but we seem to always think that other players are performing much higher than our own boys. Grujic has averaged 25 league games over 2 seasons at a mid table bundesliga team yet gets talked about like he's elite. If naby keita or gini wijnaldum had spent the last 2 seasons in Germany I'm sure they would have enjoyed even better form. Grujic has proved nothing to suggest he would make it in England yet and the fact our manager who has been following him closely doesn't seem convinced tells me enough.

I'd rather sell him for 20mil than for him to be a player we were going to buy for 20mil this summer if he belonged to another club. The lack of clubs willing to offer us the money at a time when many average players are moving for more is another realistic indication of his true worth.

15.) 26 Sep 2020 04:35:40
Good post RM. I haven't seen much of marko, but enough to know you're telling the truth. He's clearly got quality.



19 Sep 2020 16:59:45
Quick ED25 - snapshot of the table!


{Ed025's Note - get used to it SG.. :)

1.) 19 Sep 2020 17:02:42
Wait until Xmas Ed 😉.

{Ed025's Note - christmas has already come for us juicer..we got james .. :)

2.) 19 Sep 2020 18:17:34
I give James until November to realise he can't be bothered and give up.

3.) 19 Sep 2020 18:37:03
Let's hope the good for continues for the blues, just as long as it's not against us and we finish above them.

4.) 19 Sep 2020 19:41:50
I know it's early but I like Everton. This year's Leicester I reckon.

Happy for you ed25.

5.) 19 Sep 2020 21:17:24
James Rodriguez on song is a world class talent simple as that!

{Ed025's Note - he is hailstones, i just hope he can keep it going when the cold comes in mate..



24 Jul 2020 15:44:22
A shout out to Hendo for being voted footballer of the year.

He's been an absolute inspiration, and together with the likes of Milner has really helped Klopp set the tone and culture of this team, which is far more important than some people give credit for. Flashy YouTube highlight reels aren't worth anything if you don't have discipline, guts and consistency, and that's where Hendo leads by example.

Also a gracious acceptance, immediately saying his team mates deserve it every bit as much as he does, and accepting it on behalf of everyone in the squad.

What a player, but more importantly, what a captain he's become.


1.) 24 Jul 2020 16:40:55
Thats brilliant he deserves it so much i think he is possibly the most underrated player in the league even to our own fans ge is marmite i personally think he's brilliant congratulations hendo and thanks for not leaving when Brenda tried to sell you YNWA.

{Ed025's Note - he has been excellent over the past 18 months berg, massively improved his game which is a testament to klopp and hard work mate..

2.) 24 Jul 2020 19:11:51
Fully agree Berg469 and Ed25. Hendo's rise ironically, happened at the same time our club and this squad rose through the ashes of disappointment, criticism and lack of belief to what today.

His selflessness, grace and investment in something much bigger than himself, is what sets him apart as a leader of men, the rock on which this squad of players was built. His intelligence has allowed him to be pretty much, a coach on the field as he is so experienced, he sees things good or bad, before they happen. Take a bow, Capt. and Legend!

3.) 24 Jul 2020 18:02:45
Massive congratulations. It's the Football Writers' Association Player of the Year. I hope he gets the one from the PFA also. I still can't believe we once tried to include him in a package deal for Clint Dempsey.

4.) 24 Jul 2020 18:22:31
Spot on ed . how's it going mate you keeping well?

{Ed025's Note - yeah im good thanks berg, hope you are well too mate..

5.) 24 Jul 2020 20:33:54
Congrats to Hendo, fully agree the last 18 months he has been awesome. I was worried when Fabs got injured but Hedo played the holding role even better. Credit on and off the pitch.

You told me 2 years ago ed025 Liverpool had only one legend, Hendo must be on that list now along with Mane.

{Ed025's Note - a great couple of seasons does not make a legend in my book mark, give me 8-10 seasons of that and i wont argue, the words "world class" and "legend" are bandied abot too much for me, king kenny yes, maybe even rush and hansen but then im struggling mate..

6.) 24 Jul 2020 20:50:22
When you have waited 30 years mate, I have to give it to him. Very nearly went to Fulham and fought his way back up. What he does off the pitch and a CL and now a PL and the only LFC player to lift the world club cup, he will do for me. When he wins another major next season even you have to give it to him.

Glad your keeping well.

{Ed025's Note - i have become a big fan of the guy mark, turned his career around and spoken of in high regard off the pitch as well, if he keeps that momentum going for another good few years then he may well become a legend mate, lets not forget klopps involvement in all this though, he has been a great mentor to jordan and a few others..

7.) 24 Jul 2020 21:06:53
Would never ever ever forget that Ed. Klopp is the real game changer, without him I doubt Hendo would be at this level and we would not be the best team in the world. He has come in and changed everything. Klopp when he leaves will without any arguments be a Legend, a Shankly, Paisley figure.

Klopp has got the 7th best team to become the worlds best in 4 seasons, hope you yet Ed, ha.

{Ed025's Note - i love the guy mark..

8.) 25 Jul 2020 02:55:40
The thing about legends is that it is very subjective.

I never seen kenny, souness, barnes rush in their pomp. Some would say kenny is the only true legend. i've sat around enough bar tables with old hands to say with confidence that ain't the case.

Legends are defined by a collective acceptance for the most part but all clubs through time add to the herd in the many minds of those who wear the shirts.

Ive done the beardsley shuffle, i've scored with gods left foot. i've crunched a few in midfield and pinged a 60 yarder like souness. i've bent an assist around 4 lamposts like kenny and i've scored with first touches like rushie. Heck i wore grobs yellow gk top under my own in three cup finals.

I wasnt much of a winger but out of all of that barnes is my favourite liverpool player. But he ain't the only legend in my mind.

In my era of watching fowler gerrard and carragher would have been true legends.

Gerrard did so many magical things that i never thought it would be possible to witness his ilk again in my time of watching liverpool. As an individual im not sure it will even be possible again. He had his flaws as a player but his moments of genius were out of this world.

My gereration, the gerrard generation, may be scorned upon by fellow supporters of other clubs. The arguments fly in but its a different feeling, a different emotion when your connected emotionally to a club. Im glad i was able to witness his whole career from start to finish and i not ashamed to say that i cried on his departing.

legendary status can also be defined in small moments that imprint on your mind.

Jerzy's injury time save in 2005, jimi and igor's champions league medals. (The true miracle of istanbul! )

Now getting back to point, im not really sure if its appropiate for supporters of other clubs to define who legends are and not. Heck even the same supporters don't agree from time to time.

One things for sure though legends make history and are remembered for the feat.

Jordan henderson will be rembered in the minds of many young cubs now and in turn will be talked about for generations to come as a true captain of this magical club.

And i say magical because even in those low periods it still feels so.

I look foward to the next generation to come. I hope they write their own history so that i can compare them to the legends that came before.

9.) 25 Jul 2020 13:47:22
maybe even rush and hansen? I think you're struggling with your head, I think you need to have a word with yourself, unbelievable.



08 Mar 2020 03:15:36
Hats off to the lads to come back and get the win - Milner showed us exactly what we were missing with Hendo out. Leadership, grit and desire.

Let's hope Hendo is back for Atletico but if not I wouldn't mind seeing Milner in midfield.





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14 Apr 2021 15:58:07
Agree with you there Ed.


{Ed001's Note - on Bellingham?} Become a Patron!



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12 Apr 2021 03:58:53
If we sign him then it would brake sense to keep Kabak and let Matip move on for fitness reasons alone.




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07 Jan 2021 15:34:05
Origi - has effectively been replaced already with Jota and Minamino, I love the guy but it's an obvious place for us to raise some funds and for him to get the move and playing time he deserves

Adrian - Has dome well but Kelleher has stepped up well. I doubt we'd get much for him though

Keita - This is the move I'd really like to see. I've always had hopes for Keita but he hasn't settled and injuries have seen him struggle to establish himself. A move could work for best for both him to reset and to raise some real funds for the club

Shaq - Hasn't played much so I'd see if we can raise anything for him and bring back Elliott

Milner - I'd keep him until he won't have us anymore!

Grujic - I'd really like to see him return and establish himself as a replacement for Gini (assuming he leaves), but I suspect he may move on unfortunately.

The rest are fringe/ kids IMO so won't get much for them.

In short, I don't see how we're likely to be a huge pool of funds unless someone like Salah were to move on.


{Ed002's Note - Adrian is out of contract in the summer - he is not going to be sold.}



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18 Dec 2020 15:48:38
I just watched the game in full again and just don’t get it. Tottenham basically set up to defend and Liverpool completely dominated the game. We could have killed it off with decent finishing while they were basically limited to 3-4 key moments, while we dominated midfield and created at least a dozen good opportunities. I also think if Son had been subjected to the same scrutiny as Mane vs Everton, he would have been offsides. No question at all in my mind, the better team won.

Special mention to our midfield who were imperious, Bobby Firmino who was brilliant, Robbo who has been my player of the season so far, and Rhys who did an excellent job on Debut.




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15 Dec 2020 11:28:08
We could do with Grujic right now!





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15 Apr 2021 07:35:28
The team played well, just the finishing that let us down - can’t help but feel the crowd would have been the difference and if they’d conceded could have been in trouble, but reality is we just didn’t take our chances and everything else is ifs and buts.




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11 Mar 2021 14:40:25
Agree Ed - I thought there were far more runs in behind and movement off the shoulder of the last defender than when we have Bobby playing. It also explains why Thiago looked so dangerous IMO.




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11 Mar 2021 03:49:57
Brilliant to see Fabinho in midfield again, but a huge shout out has to go to Philips who did a fantastic job at CB, and who tackled, headed and cleared away numerous dangerous looking attacks. He’s not the prettiest footballer but he’s very very aggressive and effective, and he’s getting better at reading the game every week, which is what you really need in a CB. Alissons early diving save was also crucial, we could have been a nervous wreck had they scored early.

Good to be back on the scoreboard and hope we can continue the momentum into the PL.




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10 Mar 2021 14:58:30
Ed a good review and helps add some perspective. The only think is I’m note sure there’s not an in between doing nothing at all and doing too much like we saw vs Fulham. We could easily have tried a bit more rotation (ie given Minamino more of a chance before he left), or perhaps tried a 4-2-3-1 to give Thiago a defensive partner at the base of midfield, or even tried Mane or Salah upfront instead of Fabinho, instead of trying the same thing over and over before switching it all at the same time like we did vs. Fulham.

It feels a bit like we’ve just tried to persevere playing the same system as last season, but that was built on the defensive nous of VVD and Fabinho, and the intensity of Hendo, whereas with the likes of Thiago we perhaps need to play to his strengths rather than asking him to replicate Hendo’s.

I realise it’s easier said than done and I honestly think Klopp 100% deserves the chance to fix things, but I also can’t honestly say I’ve been thrilled with the lack of creativity to try to adapt the teams shape to allow for loss of Fabinho, VVD and Hendo.


{Ed001's Note - I know mate, there is always something else that can be done. But the 2 at the base was tried a few times and never seemed to work.}



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10 Mar 2021 14:38:01
Jonesy’s pinch of salt cracked me up!

I honestly don’t get the three at the back argument - ridiculous when you can barely put out 2. Get back to full metal football and attack being the best form of defence I say.