Liverpool Banter 2

12 Oct 2026 21:12:15
Adam Cleary has a good video on Wirtz out on his channel. Its not just us Liverpool fans, the whole world is surprised how poor he has been. More importantly he seems to have been getting worse. His best spell came from Oct-Dec last year, and since then he has just struggled in every game.

I wish something would suddenly click for him, but he needs to be taken out of the firing line at this moment. He looks mentally lost.

12 Oct 2026 22:28:02
Oct-Nov he was brutal, the whole team was. We lost 6 of 8 in the league alone. His best period was January, maybe the last week or so of December too. 6 g/a from late Dec through Jan.

I agree; mentally he looks weak to me, and always has. At no point in the last 14 months did I think he looked like the kind of player who could (mentally) turn things around. And I absolutely hate saying that. I still think he deserves the season to prove himself, its been a difficult transition period for everyone but we have players with far worse situations playing much better than him, Jaquet missed 5 months of football, had no pre-season and has been excellent. Isaks not long back from a broken leg and scored 4 in 5. Gakpo had that tragic loss of his unborn son during the summer and has been our best player despite the club nearly selling him.

12 Oct 2026 22:47:40
That's two full seasons Chew. And what if he plays as he has till April then has a few slightly better games to see out the season, do we say"he deserves another season? .Massive improvement is needed but I've said it from the start I just don't think he'll make it here.

Was a ridiculous purchase for that money when we had Szobozlai. The only way he stays is if the club aren't offered enough to avoid looking like total fools off the likes of Bayern or Chelsea.

12 Oct 2026 23:35:33
personally - Rekon he'll need this full season plus this upcoming 2027 off-season with no major tournament to be at his best for the 27/28 season.

12 Oct 2026 23:59:10
As I said, give him the season to see if he improves, he had to deal with being played out of position in a disastrous system last year, move him on in the summer if he doesn't pull his socks up. I don't see any other options, Florian. Transfer windows closed and we'll lose money trying to ship him in January, not to mention struggle to replace him, so unless you've got a time machine, I can't imagine you've any better suggestions.

If the rumours of Olise wanting a move are true, and Bayern still keen on Wirtz, then obviously the best option is to try get a swap deal done. Typically they're more difficult to do but given the situation, they may very well value such a proposal.

13 Oct 2026 00:00:13
My bad @Chewy, I meant the run where he got like 5 goals and a few assists in that 8 game stretch. At that time, it genuinely looked he had gotten to grips with the physicality and will only get better. But then he had a small niggle, and it has never clicked for him since.

I really, really want him to succeed, just because how badly he has been criticised by everyone. But at this point, even my belief is wavering a bit. But I had already decided to not judge the team (players and manager) before December, so I am going to still stick by it.

13 Oct 2026 06:32:04
He needs to be moved on in January and we need to play 4-3-3 by adding a DM and a RB.

13 Oct 2026 07:49:43
I think Adam is exactly right, Wirtz is playing scared. How we can get him right mentally and have him playing with swagger again, Iraola really needs to figure out. He's not had a setback quite like this, he had a big injury at Leverkusen when he was starting to take flight but he didn't have the weight of expectation and scrutiny in the biggest league in the world. We know there is a brilliant player in there, and I also disagree strongly with people saying that he can't handle the physicality, he is just petrified of making the wrong decision on the ball so he hesitates, choose the safer option or just blanks out and makes the wrong choice.

I think we have to support him through this, but maybe Iraola needs to take him out the firing line for one or two games, or play him in Europe and the cup games to get his confidence back up. If he can get back to the level we know he is capable of, he will be a very valuable player for us still.

13 Oct 2026 08:01:45
I'd be up for giving him another season if I'd seen flashes but unfortunately I haven't. I've not seen him do anything that Harvey Elliott or Benayoun couldn't do. I would still give him plenty of game time, to protect his value if nothing else.

If there is any way Bayern still want him and we could use him as a makeweight for Olise that would be nice.

13 Oct 2026 05:22:47
Since we are recommending youtube videos, James Lawrence Allcott also has a video on Wirtz which explains something different.

I for once understand the frustration with Wirtz but I have a bigger issue with Liverpool as a whole and is the lack of movements of the forwards. Ed001 has said it, the video i jjst reference said it, even my untrained eye has seen how Liverpool forwards just doesn't move at all or just run the wrong way.

And the issue is, you can sell Wirtz, which I think we should because his confidence is low and I don't think is going to regain it here, but no one other player is going to fix Liverpool issues unless the forwards work differently.

13 Oct 2026 09:19:30
I'm his biggest fan but if he's out of form he should be dropped. The team should be picked on merit and not just because of the player's cost or his potential transfer value.

It's 'interesting' that AI keeps picking him.

13 Oct 2026 09:45:48
Found the James Lawrence Allcott youtube video
"I Watched EVERY Minute of Wirtz, Here's The Problem" much more informative than the Adam Clearly video. This also compared Wirtz with Cherki. It goes to show that you can use stats as you see fit. Also shows the difference in play between Citeh, Liverpool and Leverkusen.

13 Oct 2026 11:45:01
Ironically @Dominican and thekoparmy, I saw both videos you both mentioned and there were some good arguments made by both content creators and imo, it is a huge mix which makes Wirtz's task even bigger as some things he can't control. And the things he can't control, he is failing at due to no self belief at all.

In addition, Wirtz is playing scared as Patrik said and that was clear in the City game. He seemed to have lost his head even before the game started. He we struggling a couple of times to control a pass fizzed into him that went of his shins/ankles and popped up in the air. That's a guy who is drowning due to inexistent self confidence and fast.

The solutions are there but the pressure is ramping up and time is of the essence in terms of turning things around. Drop him? Fine. Maybe he needs to just sit and watch and then come on to get some good/key passes in to help his confidence. The kid is way too talented to fail but he has to want it for himself. We cannot want it for him.

12 Oct 2026 19:16:11
Question for ED001
I know its hard to select areas of improvement without giving the gaffer enough time with this bunch of players but if you had to control and make transfers with this squad, what would you do?

Thank you.

{Ed001's Note - we need bite in midfield most of all. That would be priority for me and then a right-back as Bradley& frimpong do not fill me with confidence.

12 Oct 2026 19:57:42
3 players/capabilities are required from the next window for us to be elite again.

1. Bite in midfield

2. Progression from deep (whether it be a ball playing 6 or a fullback more progessive than Frimpong, Kerkez, Araujo etc.

3. A left footed forward.

12 Oct 2026 20:05:40
I would agree that we def need more bite in midfield but who do you drop if we stay playing a 4-2-3-1 formation. Macca has come back into form and although many will say he is crap I don't subscribe to that myself. Then you have Grav and Szob vying for a spot. Yesterday gave us a glimpse of what Grav offers, again yesterday up to 61 minutes both Macca and Grav did well in a midfield 2 up against City's 3 man midfield.

Our squad is thin at the moment but bringing the likes of Ekitike, Leoni, Conor Bradley into this squad gives a different complexion and that strength in depth we need. RW is an obvious area to improve and finding a way to get the best out of Wirtz is going to be a big task for AI. With Wirtz I think he actually gets too involved, lots of running but is then too deep to effect games more, I'd like him to stay higher, push our defensive line and midfield higher to compact the game and force turnovers. Rome wasn't built in 2 months so let's give AI time to get the players playing the way he wants and we may be a different outfit because yesterday up to 61 minutes we went toe to toe with City with 3 of our starters in the stand.

12 Oct 2026 20:12:21
Wirtz can't play higher as we would then only have 2 midfielders. Unfortunately the entire Premier League winning midfield which needed more bite not less now has less with Wirtz in it.

12 Oct 2026 20:28:40
Wirtz needs to play one through ball that we took for granted from Jordan, and then we might see his value. He has been appalling so far: every decision he has made has been wrong.

As it stands, he can't pass, tackle, nor shoot. We can't blame Slot no more: this guy is a Harvey Elliott upgrade by around 5%. That's being generous.

I just don't see any evidence that he has any of the tools required. I hope he proves me wrong, but I just do not see anything from him to give the case that he is nothing more than a Le Tallec or Cheyrou. A player who can handle the ball, but not make a pass.

He has been a disaster. So far.

12 Oct 2026 20:51:33
With the current squad, we would get more bite in the midfield by moving Wirtz into one of the forward positions and playing Dom at 8/10.

12 Oct 2026 22:29:38
Who's position does he take in the frontline, so Faith, because he's no better than anyone accross the front 3.

12 Oct 2026 22:35:23
To give some context, City's midfield three included Cherki who is more of Wirtz-type player.

12 Oct 2026 22:43:57
To be honest chewy, apart from maybe Gakpo, I would have no problem dropping any of the front players to try Writz in there None of them have shown anything to suggest they deserve their place.

12 Oct 2026 22:49:42
Chewy - it'd be LW or RW.

12 Oct 2026 23:36:29
I can't see why we'd try to find a place for one of the most out of form players in the squad.
Isak, Gakpo, Munoz and Koumas have all shown more than Wirtz and Barcola is still settling in.
Why weaken the front three to prevent Wirtz weakening the midfield?
I don't care how much he cost or about his reputation; he has to earn a place.


If he's as good as a lot of good judges say he is, he won't need a place manufacturing for him.
It might not work out for him with us but we can't sacrifice players in better form in the hope that he does.

13 Oct 2026 00:05:33

But he played LW plenty last season and was absolutely useless.



So we bench our new 100m summer signing for a player who hasn't been able to find a decent run of form for 14 months now, or are we going to sacrifice either an in-form Gakpo or Isak with 11 g/a between them?



Sorry but that makes about as much sense as "s******* in your hands and clapping", as Vik would say.

13 Oct 2026 07:18:52
Isak has done nothing and winning goals at Ipswich and Bournemouth and a goal against Forest isn't what us fans want. We want chaos from our centre forward. Not goals.

13 Oct 2026 09:22:45
Can anybody let me know when the 'spotlight of doubt' starts shining on Barcola, please? I'm off on a holiday soon and would hate to miss the start of the doubting.

13 Oct 2026 10:45:52
jYou haven't missed it WD, it was 12 September against Fulham.

13 Oct 2026 11:47:55
Oh, WDW. It's already perculatting. People are already admitting that they will give him time (to keep failing, in their eyes) and then, let the slicing and dicing begin.

13 Oct 2026 11:53:26
WDW, I've got a note in my diary to start slagging off Barcola after the Arsenal game. Others may be different to me, obviously.

13 Oct 2026 11:58:22
Bradley never fit enough to play to get where he needs to be.

13 Oct 2026 15:21:50
After about 50-60 games.

12 Oct 2026 19:38:11
I have been doing some looking at stats which tell a grim reality
Over the last 44 PL games we have failed to score in the first half 28 times. (It's 5 out of 6 this season )
Last season our average time to score our first goal was the 45th minute
This season it's the 40th minute (it's lower due to isaks early goal against Ipswich, without this it would be over an hour)

I have since last November been expecting us not to score every first half - we start games so slowly And without tempo
Although yesterday was much better - we never looked like creating much

This has to change or we are in trouble again this season.

12 Oct 2026 19:52:01
Well we watched a full season and every single Liverpool fan could see the holes in the squad

Then summer came and we didn't fill the Gaps.
Added onto that we've lost the best player we've had since Steven Gerrard and didn't bother to replace him either

So if your calculations are correct and we've started just the same as we carried on last season, it makes perfect sense, because all we've done is swap the coach and said to him "go work a miracle".

12 Oct 2026 20:03:10
Exactly LFC8. So you're coming round to my way of thinking. It wasn't all down to Slot.

12 Oct 2026 20:06:53
I thought Slot was the problem last season. Iraola is going to improve every player right?

12 Oct 2026 20:23:42
No it was The 3 musketeers that ruined us. Slot, Hughes and Edwards.

I always said it was all 3, not just Arne.

Hughes was still here destroying the club in the summer and that's why we're still in just as big of a mess as we are now, because he wasn't sacked.

Disgrace of a summer Rome, it's set Liverpool back years that transfer window.

12 Oct 2026 20:32:13
I think the play is improving we went toe to toe with city yesterday that wouldn't have happened under slot sorry? Bad recruitment imo, Darwin may not of been a goal scorer but he was always available. I just hope those in charge can see what we see and act.

12 Oct 2026 20:46:31
Fair enough, LFC8. However, there were absolutely loads on here saying that last years squad would've won the league, but for the "bald fraud". They've gone quiet. I banged on all last season that it wasn't all down to Slot, even though, come the finish, I'd had enough of him. Iraola was never going to come in and wave a wand, like absolutely loads on here were saying.

He's a football coach, not Jesus. It can be argued that Slot was dealt a bad hand with the summer 2025 transfer window, following your rationale. That's looking a more disastrous window than the one that's just gone.

12 Oct 2026 22:27:36
Not replacing Mo Salah was a catastrophe Rome.

One of the biggest football clubs the world has ever seen, with no recognised Right Winger.

How that's happened is beyond me? It's got to be the worst window of modern times. 6 months before he went, we knew he was off 😂 it's actually unbelievable.

12 Oct 2026 18:38:38
A lot of negatives from yesterday due to a number of reasons. Not forgetting of course a cheat of a club still allowed to affect the entire league.
A big positive was munez for me. Build on that going forward as an entire model including future buys. Quality is imperative but you need characters and bite on the pitch.

Some of these nice players we have need a massive reality check. That may come via the door in the summer.
Really enjoyed munez and grav yesterday. If we can get that Ryan back, we've a real good midfielder.
Still doesn't deter from the need to strengthen centrally.

12 Oct 2026 19:37:23
Agreed Ron. Gravenberch was great yesterday.

12 Oct 2026 23:38:24
Except his red card changed the game. Daft lunge when you're on a yellow.

12 Oct 2026 18:18:27
I think every team should just refuse to play City, but in a way that catches as much attention as possible and forces the League to realise that whatever punishment is being considered, better be appropriate.

Imagine, both teams line up for the game, and then when the ref blows the whistle for kick-off, the whole team just walks off the pitch, leaving the City payers there wondering what is going on. If we all lose the 6 points, it makes no difference to the final standings at the end of the season.

The league might not be able to stop them playing but together, everyone else could. For the next 32 games every team to face City just walks off the pitch at the first whistle, I'd like t see them try and appeal that! What a statement that would make. It would never happen of course, too many negative repercussions, but a boy can dream.

12 Oct 2026 19:28:59
What about the fans, Chewy?

12 Oct 2026 19:34:04
I do wonder if it needs a similar level of uproar as the breakaway league. This cannot drag on much longer as the only losers are the fans and without them the game is nothing,

12 Oct 2026 19:48:33
I was about to raise the same question, Rigsby. I don't think the 60k in the ground yesterday would've been too impressed. Me for one.

12 Oct 2026 20:01:05
What about the integrity of the game Rigsby?

12 Oct 2026 20:14:15
It's up to the powers that be to sort that, Chewy. This is an absolute sh*t show, but supporters shouldn't have to lose out. I appreciate where you're coming from.

12 Oct 2026 20:42:47
I actually agree with this. If City aren't severely punished, every team should just refuse to play them. Literally forfeit every game. Technically they win every game, but that would ruin any club. No point in going to the games, no point in sponsorships etc etc. won't happen as I'm sure clubs would get fined, but it would be fantastic to see.

12 Oct 2026 20:51:47
What a joke you are chewy 🤣 When I wrote last week that man city shouldn't be allowed to operate via having a team on the pitch, you wrote a condescending reply dismissing it.
Your opinions come on the back of what's trendy it seems.


I was the first to mention the obvious before any match and it's now becoming popular amongst every neutral. Why? Because it's still as I stated, it's Currently *effecting everyone else.

12 Oct 2026 22:18:20
The integrity of the game would improve if Bournemouth fans travelled up to Manchester, spending money and watching their team walk off the pitch without a ball being kicked, would it, Chewy?
Fans have already laid out for games against City throughout this season and you'd be punishing them. Fans like Rome.

12 Oct 2026 22:46:09
Ron, obviously you didn't read all of my previous responses on the other post. I told you I shared your sentiment but that I was more concerned with the league ensuring that whatever sanctions are imposed are done so off the back of unquestionable due process so as it can't be overturned in court. I even explained how, based on the rules, there aren't really solid grounds for the league to suspend City from cheating, as technically they are cooperating and we have no evidence to suggest they're currently cheating.

In this scenario, if all teams refuse to play them, it has nothing to do with the league, or the current case, we could effectively suspend City ourselves without risk of jeopardising the current situation. Comical that you claim that "you were the first" to make some suggestion that City shouldn't be allowed play, this is going on for years.

That would be fan satisfaction you're talking about there Rigsby, not the integrity of the game. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made for the greater good. I'm sure if clubs were to make such a frastic decision they would inform fans and offer reparations, not just spring it on them at the last second. Any fan with half an ounce of passion should be willing stand with their clubs decision to protest. Personally I'd be more than happy to fork over for a game and not watch it if it meant standing by teams decision to give City the most almight f u.

12 Oct 2026 23:17:34
Effectively throwing games would do little to repair the integrity of the game.
It could also help City qualify for Europe or avoid relegation even if they get a hefty points deduction.
I won't mention them winning the PL because I hope any points deduction would stop that happening.


I want to see them punished by having points taken from them and not see that compromised by other teams rolling over and handing them the points.

13 Oct 2026 00:19:10
It's about sending a statement to the league, showing them that the punishment needs to be severe enough, showing them that the clubs have power, that the clubs make the league, not the other way around, that the league is nothing if they don't have us on side, and that they won't get away with letting City off lightly.

On the contrary, I can't see UEFA just giving City a free pass if such a situation were to happen. Apparently they're already reviewing the situation with the intent to reopen a case against them.

City will have points taken off them, but if they get 60 points and a fine, what's the point? They'll be back next year and still cheating as they are today. We already heard that City walked away from early stage settlement talks where the main discussion of the sanctions to be imposed was centred around fines.

Tell me this Rigsby, do you really trust the league to sanction City appropriately? And what would you consider appropriate for a decades worth of cheating and the irreparable damage its caused?

13 Oct 2026 07:16:07
It depends what you mean by 'sanction City appropriately', Chewy.
I don't know what is appropriate so how could I say? What do you see as appropriate?
That might- and probably will- differ from what the committee thinks.

I'm pointing out the flaws in your plan, Chewy.
Clubs not fulfilling fixtures is also breaking the rules and could result in them being fined and having points deducted. They are not going to do it.
Also, I don't see how allowing City to accrue a record points total would be appropriate. Apart from them reaching 114 points which is a point for every charge they were found guilty of 😉.

13 Oct 2026 08:47:25
The best protest fans can make is with the power of their wallet. I'm US based so cancelled my Peacock subscription and emailed customer service stating the reason. Having a club found guilty of cheating is destroying the integrity of the league. If football fans throughout the world cancelled their subscriptions and expressed the reason as the integrity of the game there would be a powerful push towards MCFC punished.

These broadcasters have spent insane amounts of money for the games and they need the abilty to sell advertising on their platform to pay for it. The league would have to stop the dancing around the issue hoping to see it go away.

12 Oct 2026 17:01:05
I see Emlyn Hughes's son and daughter are selling off all his stuff, medals, shirts, etc to the highest bidders.
Emlyn real must have thought a lot of himself, his son Emlyn Hughes Jr and his daughter Emma Lynn Hughes!.🤷‍♂️.

12 Oct 2026 16:39:44
Anyone interested on bbc i player the documentary on Abramavich chelsea should be classed in the same breath as man city in my opinion.
If you can watch it then it will open your eyes to what has been going on in football.

12 Oct 2026 14:52:20
I'm so tired of modern football. It's up there with modern film/tv and gaming.
Everything is coerced and grubby with no joy to be found, no natural/organic feeling to any of it anymore.

Sadly I think football is done, I can't see a way back from where we have ended up. Money, VAR and terrible decision making from all areas has made it all a joyless affair. Add into that the futile feeling that city's actions have caused I can see interest in a once great sport waining nationwide.

I don't understand the sport and have never played but i'm very jealous of rugby fans. That institution seems a much better ran enterprise and actually seems fair and honest from the outside.

12 Oct 2026 16:04:02
Almost sent a post in saying very similar things about two hours ago. Don't know what's happened tk the game at all.

12 Oct 2026 17:45:33
It's not actually hard to fix, you start with red carding divers, then full transparency on VAR (live display of exactly what they're doing and saying), and then you implement regular investigations into dodgey refereeing decisions, and you immediately suspend referees under suspicion.

You do those 3, and things would change incredibly quickly. Problem is getting the league to do anything at all, they need help wiping their own arse.

12 Oct 2026 17:53:07
This Man City stuff could have ruined English football altogether

The more you think about it, the worse it gets.

12 Oct 2026 17:56:40
I said on the live chat yesterday that I'm going to find it hard to watch league football this season knowing what we know about City. The fact they have been found guilty but are still able to take part in - and lead - the league just feels baffling to me.

Ultimately they have made a mockery of the Premier League through 20 years of cheating. It's embarrassing.

12 Oct 2026 17:55:55
Yeah but how do we fix modern day films and music? Think it all boils down to technology. Take it all away, we've become to reliant on all of it.

12 Oct 2026 23:57:03
No-one has the appetite to fix it while there is so much money floating around. Beyond the actual game, it is just a vehicle for the unscrupulous to glean money off through gambling and corruption.

13 Oct 2026 09:28:40
@Chewy, you are treating the effect, not the cause.

12 Oct 2026 15:16:33
This season will show great transparency on what we have at our disposal. The excuses will be zero.
Barcola looks the player that I moaned about all summer not to buy. Gakpo is light years ahead of him. Light years.

12 Oct 2026 15:29:14
Yeah he looks way off what we were all hoping for and people call out Wirtz and Kerkez. Baffles me.

12 Oct 2026 15:41:11
I call them all out, Coulred, don't be baffled. I've said, below, that Barcola hasn't been with us long enough, yet, for me to start slagging him off. I fear it may just be a matter of time. Kerkez was decent, yesterday, but I still maintain he's not much of an upgrade on Moreno.

Wirtz is just an easy target and I'll continue to sharpen my arrows, unless he steps up, and I've waited 15 months and counting for him to do so.

12 Oct 2026 16:13:40
So you are basically counting the days for our own players to be bad so that you can slag them off. Nice.

12 Oct 2026 16:21:12
It's called a banter site, mfahmee2, don't take me literally.

12 Oct 2026 16:37:14
Not exactly new is it mfahmee2? Last year half the site were hoping we'd lose so the manager would be gone. Were all LFC fans here we all want all the players to do well but we're also passionate about the club.

People get frustrated. I'd love Wirtz to suddenly run a mock in this league. I don't expect it, but I would love him to prove me wrong.

12 Oct 2026 17:49:22
We must start adding Minteh types. We need natural energy, workhorse types.

Early days. Could be better but still early days.

12 Oct 2026 17:50:18
There's bound to be frustrations with fans though Florian,
We've gone from being resounding prem champoins 14 months ago & should have been on the cusp of a period of domination to now find ourselves battling the likes of Brentford, Brighton, Bournemouth etc for a top 4 spot.
The mismanagement of the club over the last few windows has been a shocker and I fear we've dealt Iraola a shocking hand!
Wirtz is fast turning into a dud & I've massive doubts that Barcola will settle.


Next two windows are massive for us and we'll do well to be there or thereabouts come the new year.

12 Oct 2026 18:02:31
Good post Bristol, some much needed honesty from a real fan.

12 Oct 2026 20:33:49
Mfahmee2, a lot is revealed in jest, mind you.

Just saying.

12 Oct 2026 20:56:50
Give it a rest, Oli, if that's a pop at me.

13 Oct 2026 11:49:55
A hit dog will always holler.