Liverpool banter 6

27 Apr 2024 07:39:02
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Everton v Liverpool - A Quick Liverpool Perspective

27 Apr 2024 08:06:49
This post perfectly echoes my feelings.

I think as a fan base and club we hang onto things for too long because we're sentimental

Houllier stayed a season longer than he should. So did Rafa. Torres and Gerrard both stayed about 6 months too long and now klopp. The one time the club were decisive was in sacking Brendan, we need to stop letting sunk cost determine our actions.

Had klopp gone two years ago he'd have gone out a hero and with everyone missing him. With time we still will but thanks to two years of awful football and little to no success everyone's feelings will be more of relief than anything.

I am not expecting the football to be anymore exciting under slot but we will probably win more. He has the same death by a thousand passes approach as guardiola which for me is very boring. If you watched city beat Brighton you'll know what I mean, never has 4-0 been so dull.

{Ed001's Note - I am with you on that, I find Guardiola's teams dull to watch.}

27 Apr 2024 08:21:35
Completely agree,

It feels sad and wrong to be questioning Klopp after the man brought the club out of the doldrums, but it is clear that he's lost his mojo.

One of the more frustrating things, is it is so obvious the tactics don't suit, and earlier we'd go back to the thing that worked, but now we just seem to plod on regardless.

you would hope that now the new man is more or less confirmed, the players sit up and put in the effort and play to impress, but we also need the tactics to suit them.

The way it is going at the moment I'm worried for losses at West Ham and Villa, a draw against spurs, and a cagey win over Wolves.

27 Apr 2024 08:25:21
Good read Ed1.

I can’t help but think a huge part of Klopp feeling exhausted is that if not for city (cheating or not? ) he would have won another 2 titles most likely.

It must be exasperating to get 94 and 97 points in two seasons only to lose the title in the last day by a point.

It’s true that watching Liverpool for the last couple of years has been a lot less enjoyable since we switched tactics. Even wining games, it’s rarely a truly enjoyable experience to watch (does that sound spoilt? ), hopefully you get what I mean.

I was devastated when Klopp announced his departure and have ended up looking forward to it as it’s so clearly time for a change (which funnily enough is also a bit devastating weirdly)

{Ed001's Note - thanks Shaq. I am looking forward to the future now, but I will miss Klopp.}

27 Apr 2024 08:46:40
Are people still talking about heavy metal football? Klopp used the term over ten years ago when he was Dortmund boss. I think it was a flippant remark comparing his style to Wenger's orchestra style.
What does the term actually mean? Has Klopp explained what he meant?
If I remember when we started to play a more "controlled" game- the word used by his assistant at the time- we won the League, CL, FA Cup and League Cup.
Too much is being made of a jokey throwaway comment made by Klopp when he was manager of another club, in another league over ten years ago.

{Ed001's Note - are you for real? Or just being deliberately obtuse? His assistant, I guess you are referring to motormouth Lijnders, was talking nonsense. We won the league etc by playing high intensity football, which is why his own book was entitled Intensity. It is the last couple of years that we have been more controlled and won f all.}

27 Apr 2024 08:49:40
Just reading the first couple of paragraphs is exactly how I feel as well Ed’s. We all adore Klopp and to say that am looking forward to a new manager feels like am betraying him but your right he should have gone when he felt the time was right and not get talked into it by the fans/ team or his wife. They say that you never stop learning and am sure Klopp has learnt from this experience. I still love the bloke am wish him all the very best in the future what ever that mite be. My only hope now is that we definitely finish in a champions league place. YNWA Klopp!

27 Apr 2024 09:38:40
Ed01, that was not a match review, mate. That was a full-blown autopsy of our season (if not a proper therapy session) and frankly if we are being honest, we knew this the whole time but as fans are allowed to be, we were in a great position so well, we just ran with it and who could blame us?

"He has brought so much joy that it is not that I begrudge him the money or wanting a break, I am annoyed that he stayed too long. Instead of dreading him going, I am now actually just looking forward to it all being over. It is a shame because it should not be that way after all he has achieved. It should be like when he left Dortmund and the BVB fans were just broken-hearted. Instead it is almost going to be a relief. "

Mate, that hurt. It hurt really bad to read that, man. Klopp's blindspots and loyalty to Lijnders has done us in for the second season running. I knew we were not a great team, for sure but I thought our mentality and desire to prove the doubters wrong was fueling us to the top and with players coming back, we would improve. As you said, we were top in spite of the tactics rather than because of them and many of us said that this inverted rubbish was a huge problem for starters.

Now, the bubble has burst and this has been coming. Scapegoating players is futile based on the current facts laid out at this point cos I ain't got the stomach for it. For now, the season is over for me so I look forward to the players finishing the season strong and giving Klopp the farewell and parade (if possible) he deserves cos in spite of all of his mistakes, he kept ALL his promises, even those I never heard him make. Klopp leaves us in a good position and the club in a much better place than he found it. That and MANY other things, will always be to his credit, IMO.

{Ed001's Note - that is a good point, he has left us in a much better place.}

27 Apr 2024 09:39:21
Can’t believe all this negativity being given out to klopp. Yes the style of play has changed but it is still a style of play that has had us creating enough chances to win games at a canter. Its hardly klopps fault that our forwards have been missing chance after chance the last two months, these are the same players who up until then had been putting the chances away. If we had scored some of the dozens of chances we create in games then we would not be having this conversation, we would be several points clear and giving klopp the farewell he deserves instead of this undeserved critism which is frankly a disgrace!

27 Apr 2024 09:48:52
Ed001, no, I'm talking about Peter Krawietz and the words he used after we won the League.
If you're talking about high intensity, that's another thing and Klopp himself has said himself that the "heavy metal" thing was a "joke". He also admitted to talking a lot "sh*t" when he was younger.
It may seem pedantic to bring it up but we have won something in the last couple of years.

{Ed001's Note - yes, we won something this season. I was being as obtuse as you. It is irrelevant what Klopp said, it has become the label applied to refer to the high-intensity football he brought with him.}

27 Apr 2024 10:09:04
Nice review ed, not harsh enough in my opinion.

I read something that terrified me yesterday. Apparently slot is closed friends and although he prefers a high line pressing approach similar to Ange, apparently more pressing than klopp.

The scary thing was he prefers a sideways possession game and dominating possession. Linders ball?

27 Apr 2024 10:12:35
Ed001, I suppose it is a weak label based on what Klopp has since said was a joke.
He did bring a high intensity brand of football with him but it evolved to a more controlled brand with more selective spells of high intensity and we won the CL and PL.
The season we won the League we had the best defensive record.

{Ed001's Note - I don't see the relevance in anything you are saying. You seem to be completely missing the point in your efforts to prove you are a superfan. The last two seasons have been dog muck and the intensity has vanished along with switching over to a tedious, turgid, controlled style of football. The only thing we have won, and that was a close run thing against an abysmal Chelsea side managed by a serial loser, was the League Cup. Not exactly a great return when you consider the way we flunked out of the FA Cup against an even worse Man Utd side.}

27 Apr 2024 10:16:08
This is what Peter Krawietz said, after we won the League, about us moving away from the so called heavy metal football, if anyone is interested:

Dominance and control, that’s what it’s about. It has always been in our approach to control football games in a dominant manner. That possibly distinguishes us from other teams. We try to dominate, even when we’re not in possession. Gegenpressing is not some wild chase after the ball, it’s predicated on a trigger, designed to minimise the opponent’s time on the ball. But the high individual quality of our players also allows us to control games in possession now, and to take up positions close to the ball, to be able to win it back again quickly if we do lose it.

Having more of the ball shouldn’t lead to you resting on the ball but it does look more… controlled. It allows you to move the opponent around. We’re not forced to go for goal in every move, we can take a more strategic line, switching the play, preparing spaces and attacking situations in a systematic fashion. Our team have made great strides in that respect, mostly due to their individual quality.

{Ed001's Note - what has this to do with anything? Krawietz is talking about what we wanted to see, not this dire Lijnders-ball we have ended up with over the last two seasons. Clearly you are too busy reading and not actually seeing.}

27 Apr 2024 10:18:14
Good read Ed1. People saying how dare fans questions Klopp. It comes more so out of frustration and sadness, not enjoyment. Well, at least it does for me. Sadness that we are seeing a legend go out in the manner that he is. Sadness that we don’t recognise who this version of him is anymore. Sadness that his mojo has completely gone. Sadness that he is making the same mistakes over and over and over again. And sadness that those fixable mistakes along with the players have cost us a number of trophies this season. Still a legend in my eyes for what he has achieved. But, he is not above the club and is not above criticism.

Like I said in a previous post. The man is human and not a machine. He told FSG in November that he was mentally exhausted. Either one of two things should have taken place at the point when he made them aware of his intentions to step down. One, he should have said he was leaving there and then. Two, FSG should have thanked him for his service and told him to leave as of immediate effect. The decision to stay on until the end of the season should never has been an option, and should have been taken out of Klopp’s hands. I maintain the stance that Both Klopp and FSG handled the situation completely wrong. An individual who is clearly mentally spent and is not fully focused has essentially been allowed to serve a 6 month notice period. And we are surprised it has seemingly filtered down to the players?

Personally it’s bittersweet for me. I will miss Klopp and will always remember the good times. He is a legend in my eyes, there are no two ways about it. I mean, the year we won the league and the 2/ 3 years before that when we ran City close, we were simply unstoppable. But we simply ain’t that team anymore and if we are having an honest conversation without emotions and sentiments, we haven’t been that team for some years now. And as the sayings go, nothing lasts forever and all good things must come to an end. Klopp’s time at Liverpool has run its course and I’m really looking forward to this summer’s squad refresh and the future under Arne Slot.

27 Apr 2024 10:46:09
That was meant to say close friends with Pep linders never had my glasses on. I hope we don't have to suffer more linders ball.

27 Apr 2024 11:05:56
Where is all the blame for Lijnders coming from? I'm not defending him so it's a genuine question.
I've not read his book, Intensity, and I don't know about his tactics but is he the reason we are playing slower, are more defensively fragile and can't finish?
Is there any evidence that he implemented a slower and more reckless brand of football?

27 Apr 2024 11:27:45
Klopp made two huge mistakes at Liverpool, listening to Lijnders and leaving a season too early. This team is mid rebuild and with a few more right additions could be a great team.

27 Apr 2024 11:38:04
What has Lijnders said to Klopp, polecat?

27 Apr 2024 10:50:48
Ed001, Peter Krawietz was talking about us winning the League in 2019/ 20. He was talking about how the season went, how we played and he doesn't mention heavy metal football.
I've got to admit that I haven't read the Lijnder's book- I must have been too busy seeing not reading 😉- so why was it called Intensity, if his ideas are to play in a completely different way?

{Ed001's Note - and why is what Krawietz relevant to any of this? He has never talked about at any time, why would you expect him to mention it? You are just not making any useful point. Like I said, deliberately obtuse trying to be a pedant about something that is utterly irrelevant. You are just hijacking a thread. I have wasted enough time, too much time, on you being a pain for the sake of it.

Why are you asking me? Lijnders is the man you need to ask, he wrote it. I am sure he will happily talk to you, just point a mic or camera at him and he will wax eloquent about how he is the kingpin of everything if you let him.}

27 Apr 2024 12:10:30
I agree with Ed01 in his reasons as to what we could have done to potentially play better this season and last in hindsight but I can't agree Klopp should have gone 2 years ago just after nearly wining the quadruple. Maybe end of last year he should have gone but this season has been amazing up to 2-3 weeks ago with an entirely new midfield and we have still been the 2nd or 3rd best team in the land. Also 5 March 2023 Liverpool 7 - 0 Manchester Utd wouldn't have happened. No manager will do things exactly as we think. Klopp is too stubborn but he has given us great success in his era. If he'd left 2 years ago who would have come in and won more games than Klopp? I think it will be better to reflect on the success of the Klopp era at the end of next season / next couple of seasons when we see what a new manager can get out of the same players. That's not to say I disgaree with what Ed01 has posted in his review. Klopp would have played Jota and Gakpo if he could have done in the Everton game, probably Bradley as well which may have been different tactics, energy and result.

{Ed001's Note - you make some good points. The reason I always thought for keeping him is simply that there was no one out there to replace him. As we saw this time around, there is still no genuine outstanding candidate. I mean to compare to Klopp. I would gladly have Klopp stay if he was going to be back to being the Klopp that first came in.}

27 Apr 2024 12:28:57
ED1 great review of the game n esp klopp. we all wanted the Klopp we know n love but he took a back seat n let others do more, when we all know their incapable of it . he let it slide but Love how the man took to the city fans etc . going to miss him but its gone stale. time for fresh ideas n hopefully players taking on board the new managers ideas.

27 Apr 2024 12:32:41
Another 12 months would risk tainting his legacy more if he made the same mistakes you rightly point out ed01 which when we are winning we forgive but when we are not appear obvious to everyone outside of Klopp and his team. Hopefully the new guy takes us onwards and upwards. A good performance now at West Ham will ease some pain.

27 Apr 2024 13:30:47
I wonder how much buvac leaving contributed. Buvac always struck me as a person who will disagree if he thinks you're wrong. Ljinders strikes me as the kind of person who doesn't do that so that he can gain favour.

Our style did noticeably change when buvac was swapped with ljinders in my opinion.

27 Apr 2024 14:56:14
But Klopp was listening to and agreeing with Lijnders, not the other way round, apparently.
I think you're clutching at straws, Nevada.

27 Apr 2024 15:08:24
@rigsby my point was has removing a dissenting voice had a negative effect?
Whether it's klopp being ljinders yes man or the other way around there is a lack of dissenting voices. Why else would keep persisting with a style of play is having negative effects?

I suppose the alternative is just that klopp and ljinders are a very limited coaching team who can't take us where we want to be.

Because you can't claim they're a great team of people that know how to solve problems when the team is playing badly and set up badly.

27 Apr 2024 16:27:07
Nevada, Buvac? You mean "Pep Lijnders" in terms of shooting his mouth off after Klopp sent him packing B4 Pep Lijnders himself? Had to use a time machine to remamber that bro. Buvac is irrelevant here. Keep it moving.

27 Apr 2024 18:26:35
It must be hard to select a decent assistant manager, that’s probably why managers like to keep their staff together when they leave jobs.
Klopp didn’t get a good one in Ljinders.

Also the need for change has to be appreciated at the highest level. If you keep exactly the same blueprint, you will get found out. Every system has weaknesses which can be exploited.,

I don’t think Klopp knew had to change blueprint or what to change to, so he took Ljinders advice. Turns out it was bad advice 🤷‍♂️.

rubbish happens.

Looking forward to Slot-ball 👏.

27 Apr 2024 20:18:45
Lol, well if we can't talk about that because it's the past and therefore irrelevant oli then so is klopps achievements, it's the past now and by your logic - irrelevant.

28 Apr 2024 01:17:11
Ed1, that must've been quite difficult to write I'd imagine? but a very real perspective on what is happening/ has happened. Very well written mate as always and this is probably one of the first times I bloody hate to agree with you lol but everything you have said there is very true.

That loss and today's draw are so unnaceptable for a team like ours which proves your point, it's on the tactics. You've been saying it mate since the beginning of the season, I remember you saying about it and it's turned out to be true. I know in this case you'll hate to be right but it's one of them mate, it came back to bite us in the end.

Hope all is well Ed1 mate and you have a good day.

{Ed001's Note - a good day might be asking too much when I will be working on a review of the West Ham game! At least it won't be as bad as this one to write, so that is something.}

28 Apr 2024 01:40:10
Will be interesting Ed1 because I couldn't watch the game but ah I don't even want to ramble on because I feel like a broken record at this point. Rather you than me mate writing these, good god it'd do my head in. Thank you though mate for taking time out to write them.

{Ed001's Note - you didn't really miss much to be fair. And you are very welcome, it actually does help to talk about it I think.}

27 Apr 2024 07:21:28
Great review of the Everton game Ed01. Totally summed up my feelings re Klopp. Feel a bit disloyal but can't help but feel he should have left a few years ago. I can completely understand why so many on here are criticising him. I feel a bit let down by him, which seems crazy really. I honestly just want the season to be over and the new manager to come in. I never thought I would think like this about Klopp as he made me a true believer again.

{Ed001's Note - it is horrible, it makes you feel sick inside.}

27 Apr 2024 08:09:38
As a side note - nobody should feel sick or bad about criticising klopp. When you can't criticise then you are basically a cult.

And someone else on here put it quite well - if the boss says he has nothing in the tank and can't be assed why should anyone expect more of the players?
That applies to fans too. We are fans of the club, when you work for the club that washes over you too, but the minute you stop working for the club you shouldn't expect undying support.

27 Apr 2024 08:51:43
Who is saying Klopp shouldn't be criticised, Nevada?
And Klopp didn't say I have nothing in the tank unless you have a quote that says otherwise.
Have you ever thought that the players might want to win the League for themselves? Do you really think they are only trying to win it for Klopp or because he tells them what to do?

27 Apr 2024 09:02:34
Great review Eds and pretty well sums up how I feel.

Watching the match I felt sorry for Salah, stuck out by the touch line with no support due to the inverting fullback, and hardly ever getting fed the ball, total waste of our game changer.

27 Apr 2024 13:33:37
Rigsby I'm paraphrasing but klopp did say he was leaving because he didn't have the energy to keep doing this.

That's his entire reason for leaving.

As for who says you can't criticise there are people who act incredulous when someone criticises klopp and point to the history and imply he should be immune. It's also a common insinuation that if you don't back klopp you're not a real fan, which jn my view is faulty.

27 Apr 2024 13:34:46
Also rigsby - if the players want to win it for themselves, why aren't they?

The issue is will and determination and drive. If they're self motivated then all those things should be present, but they're not.

27 Apr 2024 13:54:07
Lol he can’t even kick a ball anymore how can he possibly be a game changer?

27 Apr 2024 01:40:52
BBC reporting the clubs have agreed a fee for Arne Slot.

27 Apr 2024 04:46:11
Arne Slot is our new manager for the 24/ 25 season and I will be supporting him the same as I did with Klopp. He deserves our full support as he is soon to be one of us.
I will still be sad on the 19.05.24 as Jurgen Klopp has been amazing I will always love that man and what he did for our club.
Stop the whinging and get behind Arne and the squad!

27 Apr 2024 09:48:56
Spot on. Slot is the guy now. He has my full support and I fully expect him to have good and bad days and Im ready to persevere with him, for sure just like I did for our players and for Klopp when things were not going right for him in the first couple of years.

The "Slot Out" brigade online can go fly a kite.

26 Apr 2024 21:00:57
Shame on you all knocking Klopp. Great post scouse.

26 Apr 2024 17:36:57
The constant sniping at klopp has got to stop. The man has come out and told us he is tired probably being polite. Pressure and stress. DVLA say don't drive when your tired the BMA say don't operate heavy machinery yet here's a man running one of the top 5/ 6 clubs in the world facing setback after setback with the weight of expectations of the millions of fans on his shoulders too . We all make mistakes when we're tired just we don't have 50 news outlets 100 pundits and couple of million fans judging you. He turned the club around and now some of the fans are turning on him. Sad, we call ourselves the best fans in the world " this means more" let's show it then. If we finish 3rd it won't be for the lack of trying. He could have walked out mid season but he showed loyalty and stayed on, let you lot who are having a dig show him some loyalty. He is not the first Liverpool manger to struggle with stress and pressure, shanks, king kenny, smoking joe even Rafa had a touch . I'm glad social media wasn't around in them days. YNWA eh? Unless you slip up, make mistakes then your not one of us.

26 Apr 2024 19:33:13
Agree with you there, scouse john.

{Ed025's Note - thats a great post by John by the way..

26 Apr 2024 19:55:21
Klopps made a lot of mistakes since linders became his assistant and our build up play is non existent then 70 minutes in you can hear him screaming 442 yet we still have no build up play.

He's had a poor end to his career unfortunately and it's the right time to leave but I'm not sure how people can say they hate him, he took us to the next level and is number 3 on the all time list.

26 Apr 2024 19:43:35
Best post i've ever seen on here.

26 Apr 2024 20:01:56
It won't stop. It's human nature, John. People need someone or something to blame and lash out against when they are unhappy.
I like to think I'm not too bad but I have been known to shout at the TV 😂.

{Ed025's Note - I swear a lot Rigsby...and it really helps mate.. :)

26 Apr 2024 20:39:29
If klopp isn't up to it then he should have left back in Jan. It's what Kenny did when he didn't feel he could handle it.

We all love klopp but the season has been a disaster BECAUSE of how he feels. Could have put someone in charge for the interim and it would have benefited everyone and nobody would have been angry.

26 Apr 2024 20:55:49
Because we have not won the league means the fan boys aren’t happy, probably new generation keyboard warriors. No manager wins everything but with Klopp we are very much back as being the most successful team in England. Klopp has done so much for us and regardless of how the season ends, he will get the send off he deserves and will forever be a legend at LFC.

26 Apr 2024 20:54:02
I know what you mean, Ed025 but I watch the games on TV with my lad now so any strong words have to been done under my breath. He's ok with the milder ones. For the Palace and Everton games he has disappeared to play on some device or other and can just switch off from the game.
I wish I could.

{Ed025's Note - my lads are both married with kids Rigsby and both red hot Liverpudlians mate, luckily they dont hear me so i get carte blanche in my house.. :)

26 Apr 2024 21:15:12
Could definitely see Liverpool romping to the title under Pep as interim manager from when Klopp announced he was leaving Nevada 😂😂 or maybe Hodgson would have come back for the 2nd half of the season 👀😂.

26 Apr 2024 21:19:03
At the start of the season no one gave us a glimmer of winning the league, with the midfield rebuild etc. And now everyone is crying that we've dropped to third with a handful of games left to play. 99% of us would of been more than happy with a 3rd place finish this season.

{Ed025's Note - your spot on ashy..

26 Apr 2024 21:57:28
Klopp has taken us back to the top. Anyone hating on him now should refresh their memory of what went before him and moreover, what he’s been up against, a club owned by an extremely wealthy nation state with allegations of cheating hanging over them. And he’s still competed. No one before him had that to play against, in those circumstances he’s done exceptionally well. Any other time in the premier league era, he’d have won three or four titles.

26 Apr 2024 21:57:59
Jurgan Klopp. Liverpool Legend. Simple as that.

26 Apr 2024 21:59:22
Well said Scouse John - brilliant post.

26 Apr 2024 22:09:37
Spot on, Scouse John. The modern day fans are just in it for the vibes and the clicks provided their team win and they can go on SM to give it the big ones. Nobody is interested in actually supporting their teams thru thick and thin, the good times and the bad times. it's all about "We are LFC and should be winning trophies". These same turncoats prolly wanted Klopp sacked after last season and didn't even think we would be where we are challeging for the title, winning a Cup the way we did eitc. Now, they are here mouthing off as if someone owes them something. Absolute rubbish.

Klopp could have gone anywhere he wanted as he was the hottest manager at the time and YET he came to us at our worst. We were NOT a club that top managers went to. He came to us and exceeded many of our expectations. He won the freaking LOT, something nobody thought he could, not even me. Klopp gave me my dignity back as an LFC fan. he gave me some of the best times of my LFC supporting life. Could he have won mre? You can say that for every manager BUT the most important thing is that he won when we needed him to win and when his moment came, he WON those moments.

Thanks for ALL you did for me and the rest of my LFC borthers and sisters, Jurgen. We will NEVER forget you. But MOST importantly, find a new purpose in your life. You deserve it. YNWA!

26 Apr 2024 22:20:11
Nevada, Klopp hasn't said he can't handle it and this season has not been a disaster. Far from it.
He has said he is tired but that doesn't mean he can't handle it. He needs a rest in the summer, that's it. You can't compare what he has said to Dalglish resigning. Dalglish had to deal with Hillsborough and the aftermath. He attended the funerals of those we lost. What effect do you think that had on him?
You're way off the mark comparing what Klopp has said and what Dalglish went through.

26 Apr 2024 22:35:50
It’s not a brilliant post. It’s all one sided. If he had been the Man U manager and then ended the season like this the same posters would have had a field day.

As a team and as a manager we were favourites for the league with 7 games to go. We even had a 2 week international break to get the players back on track. Something has gone very very wrong. Klopp gets the praise when it goas well but equally deserves criticism when it goes wrong. His team selection and subs v Everton will never ever make sense. He has been great for Liverpool but now it’s equally as important that he leaves.

26 Apr 2024 22:42:40
Putting an interim manager in could easily have led to the season completely falling apart and ending up outside the top four. And besides there was literally no one remotely suitable available.

26 Apr 2024 23:22:53
For what it's worth klopp will go down a legend but with an axtric as in could have been better.
I'll always be greatfull for what he's done but I do wish he left a few seasons ago.

26 Apr 2024 23:23:03
I think a lot of people's arrogance thinking we somehow deserve to win everything comes from the amazing years Jurgen has given us. Don't bite the hand that feeds comes to mind. The same portion of the fanbase that will be on the new gaffers back if he doesn't start his tenure blowing everyone else out the water.

26 Apr 2024 23:42:33
I think it's an achievement to be favourites for the League with 7 games to go after finishing fifth last season, starting this one with a new midfield and taking into account the seasons both City and Arsenal have had.
I've changed my mind, I think it is an overachievement.

26 Apr 2024 23:47:50
Trust you walter haha.

A great post John, I think we all love Klopp mate or the vast majority do anyway, he is a bloody legend for this club, if I had it my way he'd have a statue.

27 Apr 2024 00:01:11
Great post John, I've been getting fed up of some of the negative stuff on SM, it's not like Jurgen has caused this mini slump intentionally! Let's roar him and the team on for these last few matches and remember our great years we've had under this legend of a manager.

27 Apr 2024 00:36:47
Klopp is a legend and deserves every accolade that comes his way for what he has given to us and our beloved club. But heroics do not detract from failures. He deserves every bit of criticism as well. He turned away from the style and tactics that won him everything at Dortmund everything at Liverpool, why we wanted him in the first place, and turned to a turgid possession based nonsense approach that is reminiscent of Brendan Rodgers tenure and quite frankly horrible to watch. This isn't new because of the last few weeks either, we have been playing bad football for a couple of seasons now and it is no suprise that the two teams above us are Arsenal and City, with superior coaches to Pep Linders adopting the same style who have invested in players that suit that style. It is also no surprise that we have come from behind so often when reverting back to a more aggressive style after going a goal down. Everyone can see it but Klopp has done nothing. That is why is gets sniped at and it is quite deserved. It doesn't mean people hate him or anything, but he is responsible for the teams results. Regardless of past achievements you don't blindly follow a person's making bad calls, and unfortunately that is what Klopp has been doing recently. I do genuinely believe this team should be better positioned than how we are, and the fact that we are not is down to Klopp's poor tactical approach since he changed styles.

27 Apr 2024 00:59:11
I think some people just need to admit that they only support glory, they don’t support the club.

27 Apr 2024 01:20:31
Get some perspective - its simply a poor end to a season. Klopp has been excellent for Liverpool and with 2 months to go we were top of the league and on for the Quad. The capitulation since then has been dramatic so fans have every right to criticise.
However, there's a huge difference between moaning about our current form and slamming the whole club. there's a huge difference between saying Klopp has got tactics wrong recently and saying he is hated.
Ultimately, something has gone wrong in the last 7 or 8 games and it is a sad ending for Klopps final season but it doesn't taint his legacy as one of the best managers we have ever had.

27 Apr 2024 07:53:14
There will be no asterisk. He’s a legend.

He made us league champions, European champions and world club champions.

He’s the first to do that.

27 Apr 2024 08:16:31
Nobody should ever be above criticism.

If you're saying nobody should criticise then you're not a fan you're a cult member.

It's fine to criticise. We all celebrate the things he has given us but it doesn't make him immune. One should hope that when doing something badly someone will criticise since sometimes we can be blind to our failings and having a bunch of yes men echo chambers around you doesn't help.

I don't see people hating klopp or saying unreasonable things. Cast your mind back to houlliers final season and that's what hate looks like. This is justified criticism because of how poor we have been playing for the majority of two years now.

27 Apr 2024 08:29:04
I still think his biggest achievement is making us competitive again, year on year when previously we struggled to get top 4 . After 30 years he changed the clubs mindset. That can’t be underestimated.

It’s sad that it is ending this way, being top of the league a few games back . Let that sink in, our expectation as a fan base now. Klopp did that.

27 Apr 2024 09:55:33
"We all love klopp but the season has been a disaster BECAUSE of how he feels. Could have put someone in charge for the interim and it would have benefited everyone and nobody would have been angry. ".

Please, name the interim manager that would leave his coushy job and come over here to help us? Oh, and you cannot say Lijnders cos we all know how "loudly" he can talk yet when he got a chance to become a manager, he failed mgniificently. I'll wait.

26 Apr 2024 11:42:01
I’ve seen a lot of people blaming Trent for the second goal the other night. While I do agree he should have done better, why on earth is he left with Calvert Lewin who is going to beat him in the air every single time. This is why i despise zonal marking! Just gives the attacking team all the advantage of targeting the weaker opposition players!

26 Apr 2024 11:55:38
Personally, Im over the game now. it's gone. On to WH and hopefully we can finish strong and win all our games. We may finish 2nd with a few point behind City, who know?

26 Apr 2024 12:01:13
Look I would normally try to defend Trent, probably more than he can himself in fairness butI mean even if DCL steamrolls him - he should at least try and make an effort. He to all intents and purposes opened the door for him.

The footage from behind the goal is nothing other than criminal defending.

He sees the cross, sees DCL coming, moves BEHIND DCL and then barely touches him.

Sometimes you have to call a spade and spade and zonal marking be damned that was awful defending.

26 Apr 2024 12:53:05
That's why we miss Henderson and milner sometimes. Trent cowered out of the challenge just like Curtis Jones always does. Pathetic, thought Scousers were tough? Not them pair.

26 Apr 2024 13:57:07
The lack of effort shown by Trent at the back post the other night and In most defensive situations is an absolute disgrace. Shirking out of a challenge in the derby when you’re going for the league, criminal! Your captain and vice captain are meant to lead by example on and off the ball. I’ve said it countless times, Trent is a fantastic footballer, oozes ability on the ball that most pros can only dream of but defensively I can’t remember a weaker right back in red.

If he wasn’t a scouser and hadn’t come through the academy I’d sell him to the highest bidder. The main reason being what I’ve said above, defensively he’s absolutely awful. More over the argument to have him play in midfield only works if you give him a free role and that doesn’t exist in modern day football. He doesn’t have the engine, bite, press, physicality or hunger to defend in midfield.

I’m typing this after having the time to reflect. The loss to Everton, the defensive frailty shown all season, the consistency of missed chances game after game, choosing players out of form and lastly the having no plan b from Klopp and the coaching staff is the reason I’m looking forward to a change. Klopp is a legend and I’ll be eternally grateful for the memories but fresh eyes are needed.

26 Apr 2024 13:58:09
This post isn’t me defending Trent either, he should do a lot better and put up more of a challenge. I was highlighting how ridiculous zonal marking is! If we man-marked at corners instead, Van Dijk or Konate are picking up Calvert Lewin and that goal doesn’t happen. Can anyone tell me the benefits of zonal marking? The cons definitely outweigh the pros for me!

26 Apr 2024 14:15:17
VVD and Konate both got bullied as well. Then it really highlighted the massive deficiencies of some other players when it comes to defending.
I hope Klopp changes at least half the team for tomorrow’s game. I wouldn’t give Jones or Sob a seat on the plane never mind the bench.

26 Apr 2024 15:33:16
Problem with trent is he's truly woeful defensively but a brilliant passer. He's positive with the ball, he'll play the ball fans want played. That's a great asset but he's not imo ever going to succeed as a defensive midfielder. Trent has a lot of flaws as an overall player. He's not athletic like a Bellingham or past Gerrard. He's weak physically in the air, in challenges and doesn't have the legs to be a box to box midfielder.
Trent has to continue being an attacking full back and work qnd work on his defensive side. It's as simple as that.

26 Apr 2024 16:01:36
Ecogsi

I posted similar earlier in the season and got prayers

“He’s world class” - “perfect for midfield”

Fact is he doesn’t tackle, doesn’t provide the energy that he used to, and switches off defensively

None of those can happen with a midfield player or we would get rinsed through the middle

We could get a very good fee, play Bradley, and strengthen other areas.

26 Apr 2024 16:39:39
There will be a system to get the best out of Trent. I wouldn’t mind seeing Bradly and Trent playing together down the right. Trent doesn’t have to charge around his delivery is world class from anywhere.

26 Apr 2024 19:22:43
I don't think people realise the modern game isn't all sliding tackles in one on ones.

Defending in midfield is done via interceptions and blocking passing lanes - both metrics which trent scores high every season. It's aerial duels and tackles. Despite everyone thinking mac was no good at DM he was actually far more effective than endo.

Sometimes I think everyone is trapped in the past. Busquets is considered by many to be one of the best DM in modern game and he was no midfield destroyer.

The modern game uses pressing into forced errors as a defence in midfield.

Also slot doesn't use a DM he uses two pivots whose sole job is to recycle the ball and keep possession. He inverts the fullbacks for defensive duties in mid.

26 Apr 2024 20:50:49
Bored of saying the same thing. When I say Trent is a liability at RB it is not because of his positioning, his tracking, his tackling or pave or effort. It's because he cannot defend the back post at set pieces or when crosses come in. Time and time again it happens. It's at the point where I am not blaming him because a blind man could see he shouldn't be there.

26 Apr 2024 21:00:31
That's a good point about interceptions, Nevada. I remember Sammy Lee saying his better performances were when he never had to make a tackle.
That said, all midfielders should be willing to tackle if they have to. They should all be able to pass the ball forwards. It annoys me to see the number of times I see midfielders not taking the ball on the half turn. And they should all be able to score a few goals.
I suppose I am old fashioned though.

26 Apr 2024 23:02:24
Back in July Klopp stated that Trent could play effectively as a 6 but chose to play him in this 3-2-2-3 formation instead as this "hybrid" role? What would be so wrong next season to have him move permanently to that specific 6 role instead of Endo with Bradley who is a much better technically defensive RB? Get Quansah hitting the weights in the summer to add some strength and speed and play him alongside VVD; Bradley RB and source a new LB to compete with an ageing Robbo and there's a more solid back 4 imo .

27 Apr 2024 10:02:43
Schultzy, Trent switches off far too often to play at number six you need a modicum of defensive ability and be alert to danger as well as being able to read the play, which Trent really doesn’t do very well (and I’m being generous there) . Trent is great at the Hollywood passing and free kicks, but the rest of his game isn’t that great, certainly not to be considered for arguably the most important role in the team.

Nevada, I’d tend to disagree that Busquets was the best defensive midfielder of modern times, Makalele was the best by a very very long way and I’d go as far as saying Rodri is better than Busquets ever was.

{Ed001's Note - Alonso was better than any of those.}

27 Apr 2024 10:25:40
@schultzy I'm pretty sure that's what slot will do. Hell make Bradley right back and have Trent sit as the second pivot with McAllister since he likes his fullbacks to invert and provide the defensive cover and he prefers his midfielders to be able to pass their way through or recycle the ball until they can.

@riggsby there is a quote often attributes to maldini in which he says if he has to make a tackle it means he's already made a mistake (the quote was actually a playful joke aimed at baresi during their run together in the late 80s because baresi was probably worlds best tackler and there was a lot of playful competition between them) .

Despite it being a playful jab there is some truth to it you have more control of the game when you're on your feet. Sliding should be a last resort and if you win the slide you should either keep the ball or put it out because sliding and losing possession has left a gap where you should be covering. This was actually something saachi realised as Milan coach and it's where the high pressing system originally comes from (pep and klopp both credit saachi as an influence) . Saachi realised that because everyone was playing the (horrible) catennacio system they were more focused on winning tackles than what to do with it after and since sliding was enough vogue there were gaps to exploit.

This post went on longer than expected but it's only because saachi is such a fascinating character and doesn't get the credit he deserves for how he changed the game. Also a nice bloke.

26 Apr 2024 10:55:39
Hi Ed's

Do you think Salah's drop of form has coincided with Trent playing this awful invert fullback role. I have noticed when Bradley is playing, Salah seems to have more space as the defender is occupied with two player instead of one. Which gives Mo the extra space to do his stuff.

I know Mo has been awful the last few months but I don't think this inverted fullback tactic helps.

Would love to hear your opinion on this.

Thanks.

{Ed001's Note - that hasn't helped, but it is not the issue. It is not an inverted full-back that makes his touch so bad.}

26 Apr 2024 11:18:31
Mos finished everything comes to an end time to move on as not to tarnish his legacy.

26 Apr 2024 11:18:43
Didn’t Salah have good form at the start of the season when Trent was also playing the inverted full back.

I’m not sure how many of Mo’s 24 goals and 13 assists have come when we haven’t played Trent there?

{Ed001's Note - yes mate he did. The only real difference it makes to Salah is that he plays wider. But early in the season he was creating more chances for others and playing some good stuff.}

26 Apr 2024 11:32:16
Definitely out of form we know he has lost some pace but personally I think he could play the false nine better than Firminho create more chances for others and still able to chip in with goals. What say you ed001
Up the pool.

{Ed001's Note - not convinced he could play there and even less convinced he would do it better than Bobby did. I do think he could play a little deeper but not that role, not the way Bobby did it.}

26 Apr 2024 11:43:36
Ed001 100% agree mate.

I'm not trying to defend the inverted full back system as i am just as frustrated as the next person with how we are playing.

I just don't think our defeats to Everton, Atalanta and Palace our our inability to finish our chances or defend and give away so many early goals is just down to the formation.

The 3 games mentioned above I can't remember the last time i saw this team look so carefree and lackluster whilst being behind.

Seen reports online that Klopp is wielding the axe this weekend with as many as 7 changes so will be expecting some of the youngsters to come in.

{Ed001's Note - none of the players who have come back in have performed, so it would make sense to turn back to the kids who did.}

26 Apr 2024 13:03:08
Right, come on, Reds: who are the kids that we should play for the rest of the season and why?
Quansah, ok. Bradley is injured.
Have Danns, Clark, McConnell, Koumas etc done enough this season to start in the PL?
I've only seen glimpses of them in the League Cup, Europa and a few substitute appearances in the PL so I don't know how good they are and what they have achieved so far.
In my defence, the League Cup final was tense so I probably didn't notice them as much as I should have done.

{Ed001's Note - Danns has, McConnell was just starting to bed in and begin to play. The rest were at least trying to play forward, which is better than their replacements have been doing.}

26 Apr 2024 13:23:38
The last 2 afcons that have been held in jan and salah form has fell off a cliff afterwards. 2 years ago 1st half of season he was the best player in world for me and kept us in touch when we playing average enough. Team then had great run and a good rattle at quad but salh form not near what it was for remander of season. Same this time although wouldn't say he as good in 1st half of this season as hd was 2 years ago.

26 Apr 2024 13:29:30
Rigsby if the question was after my comment above mate then it wasn’t me saying we should be playing the youngsters.

It was more I’ve seen online as many as 7 changes. Looking at the bench wed and squad then I’m preempting that some youngsters will be involved.

But with Klopp subs on Wed o wouldn’t be surprised to see the same starting line up as Everton.

26 Apr 2024 13:31:27
Ed, crazy to think that we were winning games when we were playing the kids in the starting lineup. But the moment the first teamers got back from injury and inserted into starting eleven, everything started to fall off. It is supposed to go the other way around. I guess the kids just want it more.

26 Apr 2024 13:44:27
Mfahmee which kids were starting mate?

26 Apr 2024 14:00:01
No, it wasn't aimed at you, JK.
Even if we did make seven changes, it doesn't necessarily mean it'll be the kids. By kids, I mean Danns, Clark, McConnell etc anyway.
I just wondered what they had done that I hadn't seen.
At his press conference Klopp mentioned playing more positively and he could be expecting the senior players to do that. Why they wouldn't when behind in important games is strange though.
If the youngsters are ready then put them in but is there evidence that says they are?

26 Apr 2024 14:35:13
Rigsby i agree woth you as the youngsters have hardly played many league minutes this season apart from Bradley and Quansah but both have been in the team that failed to beat utd or Atalanta.

I was putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5 in regards to the 7 changes.

If 4 changes are the subs from Wed night then we should all strap ourselves in for a bumpy ride tomorrow.

26 Apr 2024 15:37:06
Edd001 what has happened to sob? He seemed a great buy and rolls Royce. Completely fell off and for a long time now. His antics against Everton didn't impress me atall either with the dramatics. Do you see him becoming a star for us?

{Ed001's Note - if we play him to his strengths and let him play at high intensity, then yes he will be good for us.}

26 Apr 2024 15:49:13
JK23, I'm thinking maybe Danns. With how our forward line is firing blank right now, there is no harm in playing him. See what can he do as a starter. In midfield, McConnell maybe and Elliot.

26 Apr 2024 16:03:50
Sob is hiding in games. As Klopp says he is not telling the players don’t work hard, don’t press. He is a counter pressing manager, it’s just the players aren’t doing as instructed. Not just Sob but he is one of the worst atm. Lack of desire, energy, playing it safe, making wrong decisions. I hope next season he shuts his mouth and puts more effort into becoming a much better all round player.

26 Apr 2024 16:55:14
If we get slot and play szob as a 10 rather than an 8 I think we will see the best of him but attitude needs to change as does a lot of the lads if they want to be the best.

26 Apr 2024 20:12:40
It’s not that the kids have “done enough” to be starters for a title chasing team. It’s just that they've done enough that I want to see what they can do with an extended run in the team.

The way the first team are playing, we’re not winning many more games so the title is a very long shot.

Even more of a long shot is not finishing in the top 4.

Therefore we have little to lose by playing them in my opinion. You’ll never know what they can do unless you give them a chance.

27 Apr 2024 06:49:15
The only place I would play Szob is on the bench. A shocking player reminiscent of Bruno Cheyrou. Any false hope people have for him is miss guided another dud to go along with Darwin.