Liverpool Banter Archive November 12 2017

12 Nov 2017 16:21:56
Hearing Barcelona offering cash plus swap deal. but I'm struggling to think of when teams actually do this🤔 anyone got any recent examples of swap deals I'm stumped.

12 Nov 2017 16:42:23
Can’t think of one that has happened. As if is, there isn’t one player they could offer that would be worth accepting in PX.

12 Nov 2017 18:28:01
Also why would we accept Barcelona cast offs, not good enough for them then not good enough for us!

Baz.

12 Nov 2017 19:01:37
well said Baz2.

12 Nov 2017 19:09:56
Barca pulling their dirty tricks again. We don't want their dross, period. Either they pay up in straight cash or the can jog on.

12 Nov 2017 19:29:48
Coutinho wasn't good enough at Inter when we got him. I know he was young, be he still wasn't good enough. The difference between good enough and not is sometimes as simple as showing confidence in the player.

12 Nov 2017 19:52:49
But we don’t need him! Do we? So what should we do with Coutinho If Barcelona refuse to pay the asking price 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔. Keep an unwanted player at the club?

12 Nov 2017 20:31:44
Ed002 has said that Barcelona and not offering players as part of the deal at this stage and we would need to ask for players off there surplus list if we wanted a player included. I just hope we are not demanding to much money for Phil as we must sell him in January.

12 Nov 2017 20:54:39
Barcelona have probably been involved with biggest cash and player swap when they gave cash and Samuel eto for Ibrahimovic. that's the only one I can think of in recent times.

12 Nov 2017 21:01:46
If they don’t pay the asking price then tough. Maybe Couthino should go pleading to the Barcelona hierarchy asking them to pay up.

The whole player power thing is ridiculous and it’s time the club’s stood firm. Couthino wants to go to Barcelona, Barcelona want Couthino. Pay up or move on.

12 Nov 2017 21:04:57
Sergio Roberto
Ter Stegen
Umtiti

3 for 1 and where happy ;-)

12 Nov 2017 21:15:22
I’d take money and Innesta!

12 Nov 2017 21:29:50
But by the same token that we can attack well without him, I would make the following comments. Firstly without him we have no one who can score a free kick from outside the box, secondly he’s the best passer and play maker at the club, thirdly we shouldn’t sell for sellibgs sake, whoever buys him should pay a lot of money through the nose. And we should not accept any Barcelona player in PX.

12 Nov 2017 22:08:21
We will have a problem if Barcelona move on and buy someone else.

12 Nov 2017 23:22:27
No recent examples but remember the Samuel Eto'o / Ibrahimovic swap deal which was incredible at the time.

Also Owen/ Nunez deal for us.

13 Nov 2017 00:04:39
Mr. Dennis, we're not selling for selling sake, he wants to go and is sulking his way through the season. unless he is going to find some kind of bulldog deep down in his personality to actually not only perform but lift his team mates (which isn't his specialty anyways), then we really should be looking for the best deal for the club.

13 Nov 2017 01:42:14
Ok cheers bud just thought I’d throw it out there because they happen very rarely that’s all. I’d just want money to be honest and sort our holding midfielder and 2 centre half’s out if I’m honest. then i don’t think we would need to score a hatful to win every game cause I️ don’t now about you lot but I️ ain’t comfortable when we 3 nil up. lol😂.

13 Nov 2017 02:16:41
Need to remove the rotten apple before it affects the good ones.

13 Nov 2017 07:00:00
There is a solution, won't happen but it is there; those people talking on his behalf on social media in the summer could put out a few statements saying he is grateful for what LFC have done to develop his career and he wants the club to get good money from any sale. Like I say won't happen but could if they really wanted to.

13 Nov 2017 08:14:30
Or we sent a mail to Barcelona to take the unwanted player form us for a very huge sum ☺️☺️. We could also give them Markovic on free, they might need a winger 😌😌😌😌.

13 Nov 2017 09:45:03
No one to score from free kicks? I must’ve imagined Trent’s goal against Hoffenheim then.

12 Nov 2017 10:51:55
Hi Ed's, hope you're all well, I've been reading here and there that Klopp is also investing in youth with players like Perr Schuurs and Kai Havertz being invited to Melwood which I think is great but with Bobby Duncan looking to leave Man City is there a reason we haven't been in the mix to try and sign him? He looks a top quality player for his age and he's a local lad which is always a positive.

Many thanks

Henlow red.

{Ed002's Note - I really cannot answer why clubs aren't interested in players.}

12 Nov 2017 15:02:24
Just trust Klopp Ok? Even if it means missing out on UCL, I am sure one if seasons we will win something under Klopp.

12 Nov 2017 15:14:36
Relax, was that tongue firmly in cheek mate, lol.

12 Nov 2017 19:21:17
LFC cannot be interested in every player under the sun. That is simply impossible.

13 Nov 2017 13:02:04
Don't worry, we're interested we're just not monitoring. However there is every chance that we'll drop a cheeky bid in for him. Sadly our prospects of just going out and getting it done are small, despite the fact that we're confident something can be done.

Any more platitudes required or can we leave it there?

12 Nov 2017 08:12:10
It seems people are giving Coutinho a hard time and even doubting his importance to the team. I guess they have forgotten the past few seasons.

That being said I have to say Coutinho should stop with the sulking. I mean take Bale as an example. he was kept at Spurs one more season than he wanted but he still played a blinder. De Gea's move fell through at the last moment but he is still doing what he does does best.

I know Liverpool blocked Coutinho's dream move but he still really well paid and owes it to the fans and his team mates to give his 100% on the pitch.

12 Nov 2017 08:59:11
His importance to the team has vanished mate, he's done bugger all this season and it'll only continue, he doesn't want to be here. I haven't forgot the past few seasons he's been good yes, but he hasn't carried that on has he, because he's acted like a teenage boy not getting his own way, the true Coutinho since summer has revealed himself, I never thought he'd act the way he has, it's a shame but sooner he's gone the better for me.

12 Nov 2017 09:00:06
Why would the last few seasons come into it. He wants to go and is playing terrible because of it. He's trying everything to leave. i for one haven't forgot what he's done for the club I just don't want him at Liverpool anymore.

12 Nov 2017 09:01:21
They are also ripping Emre Can since he hasn’t signed an extension. Forgotten the past. He signle handedly got us top 4 when the likes of Lovren and Klavan were sinking us! His ability is on par with David Silva, you can’t deny that! He might need some time after things happened in the summer! He still has 2 goals and 2 assists in his name in only 4 games played! I don’t know what more the kid has to do!

12 Nov 2017 09:08:00
'His ability is on par with David Silva' Denied. This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on here, please tell me you are joking? Coutinho the past few seasons has been good, but he's nothing on Silva.

{Ed025's Note - silva is far more consistent..

12 Nov 2017 09:23:08
You said it right there Harry the kid. he Needs to grow up and stop acting like a spoiled kid.

12 Nov 2017 09:39:02
Coutinho wouldn't be the player he is today if he stayed at Inter. He should be more respectful.

{Ed025's Note - im afraid loyalty and respect are a thing of the past Eka..

12 Nov 2017 09:41:13
Nobody is "ripping" Coutinho or Can in terms of ability.

I don't know how many times it needs explaining. We want Coutinho out because he isn't trying hard enough, and is faking injuries to avoid playing.

I'm not even sure anybody wants Can out. I certainly don't. If he signed an extension I'd be delighted because he is actually being professional and still putting in 100%. However, Can wants to leave because he can see he is being phased out by Klopp, and he wants a role with more freedom anyway.

These people are human. If they want to leave then i don't even think it morally right to deny them that. I'm allowed to leave my job whenever i want. I'll still put 100% through my notice period though, which is why Coutinho has lost everyone's respect. Can in contrast has never lied to us, and is prepared to give his all until he has seen out his contract. That is the absolute most a player can feel morally obliged to do, to be honest.

The problem is Harry, you and a select few others are living in a dream world where you think you can chain players to Anfield and expect them to want to play for us. If their heart isn't in it, let them go and sign someone whose heart is in it. It is not about ability, so stop putting words into everyone's mouths every 3 or 4 threads!

I think anybody who has watched them play will tell you they could both be world class one day. Players are transient employees though so just accept that sometimes they will leave and that clubs no longer have any power. Even if they refuse to sell, the player can just refuse to try.

12 Nov 2017 10:01:45
I've not seen one comment questioning Coutinho's ability. It's his integrity than is under scrutiny. If him and Can came out today and declared their future to the club then I for one would be delighted. You cannot challenge if you sell your best players but You can also not challenge if your best players feign injury or do not want to be at the club.

12 Nov 2017 10:33:54
"These people are human. If they want to leave then i don't even think it morally right to deny them that. I'm allowed to leave my job whenever i want. "

Coutinho wanted to leave and he was kept against his will. If you were told you couldn't leave your job would you still put in 100% MK. Just putting another view point out there for a more balanced debate.

12 Nov 2017 10:51:58
On the other hand Irish if you were ringing in sick when there is nothing wrong they would sack you. Not pay you 150k a week.

12 Nov 2017 10:57:14
He signed a contract to earn an absolute fortune knowing full well the term of that contract so you are wrong Irish. And to answer your question if I wanted to leave I would be respectful, morally obliged, grown up enough to continue to try my best. This is a joke to me and a problem with society as a whole. Petulant kids: "I want everything and I WANT IT NOW! "

12 Nov 2017 09:53:58
Well said MK/ Ed025.

12 Nov 2017 11:29:54
It's all relative Irish Rover. On £600 a week working in a factory? No way would i try if i was not allowed to leave to better myself.

However if i was earning £200,000 a week for playing football? I think my attitude might be slightly more grateful!

I take your point though. Coutinho was treated like property rather than a person. I can understand his attitude (though i wish he'd be professional like Can), even if it is a bit spoilt with all that we have given and continue to give him.

12 Nov 2017 13:52:22
All we can do is speculate and pass comments without knowing the truth.

Courts is a top class player and no doubting his talent. But his heart is not here anymore and the sooner he is gone the better for everyone.

Can has physical attributes but no real skill or intelligence and will not improve. Even if he does I don’t want LFC to be his testing ground. So wish him well and we should have already sent him. We should invest wisely on his replacement or anyone with more potential and who are in need of opportunities.

He has had plenty but has failed to progress and stagnated.

Cheers.

12 Nov 2017 19:35:24
Why some people are rewriting or inventing their own reality is beyond belief. Ed01 has said repeatedly that Can is not Klopp's cup of tea and Can knows that hence the reason he is leaving YET they are making stuff up about him that he is being ripped in the public cos he wants to leave, none of which is true at least not on this forum.

The same with Cou and MK nailed it perfectly BUT those reinventing an alternative reality still won't stop and the one that takes the biscuit is the one who said that Cou is world class (an opinion. NOT a fact) and is of the same level as David Silva. Now that last part, was hilarious.

13 Nov 2017 13:12:31
Irish Rover - maybe you can leave your job whenever you want. But I'm a freelancer and I sign contracts for individual workloads. If I don't want to complete the contract in theory I can leave, but I'll have to pay a pretty big penalty fee relative to the size of the contract.

Coutinho isn't a prisoner. He can always break contract, stop being paid, abide by FIFA law until he can register for a new club and pay whatever court mandated settlement is required by LFC. Maybe it will mean declaring bankruptcy (which I would have to do should I choose not to complete any contract cause I just didn't want to), it might mean that his career is over even. But he can still not show up to work at LFC anymore if he doesn't want to.

The answer is pretty simple - don't sign contracts that, baring massively unforeseen circumstances that would void the contract anyway, you aren't willing to see through. Doesn't matter what it is - could be a 200k/ w football contract or the new T&C for Spotify. Don't sign if you're not willing to make good on it. And if you feel the need to change it later, accept it will take willingness on all sides rather than your say-so and that long and sensitive negotiations will be require. While that is going on, you're still a bound by your contract and your word, and there is no excuse for not doing your job. The world doesn't always work in your favour all the time. When you accept a favourable agreement, there is always the chance of consequences. Coutinho didn't ask for less money in return for a shorter contract when he signed his latest one with LFC. Now he accepts the consequences of a longer one.

11 Nov 2017 20:34:07
Just my opinion and i would love to hear other opinions on it, Including Ed001.

Harry said that coutinho is our best playmaker but i don't think he even is a playmaker. Firmino is our playmaker as he affects the whole play not just our attacking passes.

For example if firmino pushes high and closes down there defence it forces our wingers to help, the mids to push up closing the spaces and the defence to push up closing those gaps, Or if he drops off then our mids drop then our defence to we are not standing on each others toes and both senarios was because of firmino.

And if he presses there right back if forces our team to close there right channel so everyone has to squeeze in to create a press which forces there team to squeeze in to help a team mate out. Giving our right back his side of the pitch wide open to attack so if we win the ball back we know our out ball is to switch the play to our right back who will have time and space to create something, And again it all started from firmino. My opinion is that firmino is the one who dictates how we play.

Coutinho is a creator not a playmaker. Just my opinion.

{Ed001's Note - in the old parlance, the creator is the playmaker mate. I think you are both right, purely because Coutinho is our only playmaker really. However he is not playing well, doesn't want to be there and has a stinking attitude as well as feigning injury. Has to go.}

12 Nov 2017 04:29:46
Sorry to write in so late but I'm working nights and the company on my break isn't the best! I have a question for you ed001 if you don't mind. Do you think to sell coutinho in January and perhaps even in the summer would have dangerous repercussions? Aren't we basically saying that you can act unprofessional to force your way? That essentially you don't have to honour your contract and behave in a manor that leaves the club powerless. As much as I understand it the player has been unprofessional, made himself unavailable for stages of the season and still received all of his wages and it now seems likely he will get the transfer he wants. I don't want to come across as slagging him off so if im mistaken i apologise. I worry that we are entering an era where big clubs (and I think we did this summer and I think we were wrong) can basically force transfers. Am I naive and has this always happened? Or do we need to make a stand before this is the norm. Thanks for your time.

{Ed001's Note - he will have been fined, so will not have received his wages, nor any win bonuses etc he would otherwise have been entitled to. Nothing dangerous about getting rid of a player who is disruptive. The repercussions are far worse to keeping hold of them. LFC is bigger than Coutinho will ever be.}

12 Nov 2017 06:29:10
Firmino is not even close to be a playmaker. Assisting doesn’t mean you are a playmaker. This is like comparing Hazard to Fabregas. Fabregas is a playmaker while Hazard is the potential attack. Hazard might have more assists during the season.

Do you agree Andre Pirlo is a playmaker? Courinho is our only playmaker while Salah, Mane, Firmino and anyone infront of him or besides him are the recipient of Coutinho’s playmaking ability.

Have you ever thought why Klopp has never dropped Firmino into the midfiled for a potential striker upfront?

123tobasco

Those were the reasons laid on this page through out the summer to stop his exit! I don’t know how and why posters have changed the stance quickly. He was available for a move in the summer. Faked an injury through the out the window. This is not a new news. So what did you think? He would do a Suarez? He would commit to save his place on the Brazil team? Lol! I still recollect those excuses to keep him at the club!

He should have sold in the summer without a doubt rather than abusing him now!

12 Nov 2017 08:03:09
"People" still talking with both sides of their mouths. On one hand, they say we should have sold Cou in the summer whereas just yesterday, they were saying that we should not sell our influential player as it could cost us a top 4 finish. I would ask such "people" to stop contradicting themselves BUT I know they won't.

And yes, We have changed our stance about Cou cos he has disappointed us with his pathetic attitude. It is that simple and why nay cannot see that, is what is shameful. Many of us thought after he did not get his move, he would knuckle down and do a Suarez as in, play his heart out for the team and then get his move in the summer. We thought this cos he had caused us NO trouble in the past till now but things change.

12 Nov 2017 08:30:02
Changing the stance to suit your arguments! Today you say sell X. What if tomorrow you change it again! Stick to something you believe.
There are no both sides! He was terrible thought out the summer and the only reason you stopped his exit was the fear of the backlash from fans / you feared the team would go into transition selling its prime player and not replacing him adequately.
Contradiction! Lol I am not mocking, bullying or abusing the player to simply suit my frustrations! It doesn’t matter where he plays next, he is world class! Brining up stupid stats to prove your argument!

12 Nov 2017 19:49:35
Harry, no one is mocking nor abusing Cou out of nothing. We are saying what is clear for all to see and you are simply being willfully blind about it, which is your right. You are the one changing your stance and trying to defend his shameful behavior and I just showed you that in my post YET you came back with a pathetic deflection of "There are no both sides to this issue" What a poor attempt at deflection.

I am not frustrated by Cou nor abusing him cos right now, we are playing better w/ o him than with him and the facts bear that out (those pesky stats again) . Anyone with a functioning brain can see that his heart is no longer here with the way he has been playing in the last few games and the Ed01 has said that repeatedly on here YET you continue to defend him cos you seem to want to be a contrarian with NO facts to back up your defence of him.

Also, where he plays next year or season is of no relevance to me cos if he is going to sulk then he should NOT be here next season. Finally, Cou being world class is an opinion, NOT a fact as he is as inconsistent as they come. You are entitled to your opinions BUT not entitled to your own facts.

11 Nov 2017 23:10:01
Congratulations to Dom Solanke who has been called up to England’s senior team. Great achievements for the youngster. Hopefully he’ll get more game time with us and develop into the player we all know he can be!

12 Nov 2017 08:04:00
No experience is worthless for any young player. Bravo, Dom.