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30 May 2018 17:06:59
I'm loving the midfield upgrades and the other rumours of potential signings.

However, is anyone else concerned that with the amount we will probably end up shelling out by the end of the window, that we could possibly take the money supposedly going to be offered for Salah?

I hope he stays, but with the stadium upgrading, debt, plus recent purchases (Naby, VVD and Fab) we must be getting close to the FFP line.
I know the PL money and CL run money will help, I'm just a little concerned.

RedAllOverButNotSore

{Ed002's Note - VvD was in a different year to the others but Liverpool did make an additional payment for Nobby last season.}


1.) 30 May 2018 17:44:29
Not 100% sure maybe ed002 can help out but stadium costs alongside youth/ community development costs are mostly separate from FFP. As investment in infrastructure doesn't count towards FFP.

Also the transfer fees won't all be paid at once and there will be some outgoings, I don't expect any of the outgoings to be massive money but the money received from Coutinho, the premier league and champions league alongside the expected sales of Sturridge, Origi?, Markovic, Grujic?, Can's wages, Ings, Mignolet, Clyne, Flanagan Lallana? and perhaps a few fringe youths like Chirivella and Ojo etc will help soften the blow.

I imagine we will be ok in the short/ medium term if we continue to qualify for champions league.

{Ed002's Note - Any infrastructure costs are excluded from the FFP calculation but obviously the costs still have to be met.

Transfer fees can be spread over a period or paid at one. Liverpool's Coutinho income so far is only €24M whereas due to the illegal approaches the club has already had to pay £70M of the fee for VvD plus £6M signing on fee to the player and £13M to his agent. They had to make an additional payment for Keita which was not insignificant in cash last year as well.}


2.) 30 May 2018 18:43:56
YIKES, Ed. That is some serious cash for the agent.

{Ed002's Note - Higher than most, but if you cheat and get caught and chance at negotiating goes down the pan. The fee was also £15M more that Southampton were looking for from the other two interested sides. The season before the one just finished saw Liverpool top the table at about £27M in agent fees alone. Not to forget the £.5M that Liverpool paid the FA for VvD as well.}


3.) 30 May 2018 19:01:17
£13M to the agent - wow. I'm in the wrong business.


4.) 30 May 2018 19:07:35
Jesus, I didn’t realise the agents got so much money out of a move, more then twice what the player received as a bonus that’s madness. No wonder agents push for moves with high profile players. Something needs to be done about a cap on agent fees surely.

{Ed025's Note - mino raiola got £42m from the deal that seen pogba go from juventus to united mick..


5.) 30 May 2018 19:16:25
Just to clarify ed002, the VVD transfer amount was paid to Southampton in one installment? No less than we deserve tbh after tapping the player up.

{Ed002's Note - Yes, £70M of the fee was paid.}


6.) 30 May 2018 19:21:06
Wow. Just wow. How can one become an agent? I'm not too old to start a new career.

{Ed025's Note - first you turn into a leech...


7.) 30 May 2018 19:35:48
£42 million on one transfer not to mention the other clients he has on his books and there I thought it was the footballers making all the money.

Im with you guys, Ed25 where do I sign up to become an agent?

{Ed025's Note - im afraid thats footballs biggest problem alonso, people who are non-productive taking all the money out of the game mate..


8.) 30 May 2018 20:37:16
this may be a stupid question but do you think any of the financial burden would of gone on Klopp for doing any of this in the first place?


9.) 31 May 2018 07:17:58
I had a chat with Mino once during a corporate event in Milan. Out of curiosity I asked what an agent does to earn such a high amount of money and his reply (after a lot of talk around the houses) was that he can convince any player to go anywhere.

I asked how often a players career is considered the top priority when talking of potential transfers and he said everytime. I followed up by asking what about when the best move for his career pays less than the highest financial move and he said he would always push the player towards the more lucrative move.

He added that even though he nearly always stood to benefit from that move its actually to insulate the player against low quality of life after football as many players don't earn enough in their career to support themselves after it ends.

The whole chat was very interesting and I could see why players listen to him, though I don't think he is as altruistic as he does.

Just an interesting anecdote for yiu all.


 

 

30 Jan 2018 15:42:37
What surprised me about the West Brom match was the defence changes.
We're bedding in our main man (VVD) . It makes sense for him to be on the pitch with our first choice keeper as much as possible, to continue that build up of understanding. Yet for some reason old smoke arms was put in goal. Not only that, but to also change bother fullbacks. A player returning from injury in Moreno and a player that hadn't played for what seemed like 2-3 months in TAA. At least give the team a steady back 5 to build on. Migs promotes panic, does not command his 6 yard area, doesn't seem to organise his defence, hesitates and flaps in most situations and has poor distribution. Our defence has a disease that needs curing before it spreads to VVD. Surely if Karius is promoted to 1st choice keeper, then it makes no sense to now give My Migs the cups. Dies this mean that Migs will be the CL keeper? I really hope not.

RedAllOverButNotSore

1.) 30 Jan 2018 16:13:44
I think your perception of Trent has been altered slightly by how thick and fast games come in late december/ early Jan - he played 90mins for us against Burnley on New Years Day and a big of the Everton match the following weekend.


2.) 30 Jan 2018 16:14:59
Hi Red I agree with some of your post but we play a game in 3 hours maybe the biggest game of the season so far. Let's hope the players are not still going over the West Brom game. Park the West Brom game for now and support the team in a very important match.

I for one hope Milner plays tonight because we can rely on him to give 100%, not back out of any challenges and cover the full backs. Tonight is a game for our players to stand up and be counted.


3.) 30 Jan 2018 16:24:49
To be honest its decisions like this that are making the fans question klopps ability as a manager. Im beginning to think that while he is a better coach than rodgers he may be just as stubborn and illogical in the players he chooses to keep in the team.


4.) 30 Jan 2018 16:39:12
I agree regarding Mignolet. Why he is still starting matches is beyond me!

The only man who can give the answers is Klopp. Maybe Klopp does not trust any of Karius or Mignolet hence the reason why we are after another keeper.

All will become clear this coming summer. One thing is for sure, I highly doubt Mignolet is going to want to be 3rd choice come next season.


5.) 30 Jan 2018 16:47:47
@Woolback

Don't all managers make strange decisions? Under Brendan we saw Ings playing as a LWB. Markovic as a RWB. Firmino did not know where he was playing under Brendan.

I love Lucas, but Rafa knew he was an attacking midfielder and decided to turn him into the clubs scapegoat. He still did a good job covering for our defence but bless the guy, he would have scored more goals for us if he was actually deployed as an attacking mid from the start when he joined us.

I can list 100's of of things regarding ineptness of previous managers we have had and the decisions they made. That is life for you with every manager.

Klopp might not be winning things but we are starting to break into the top 4 again.

We have finished top 4 how many times recently?


6.) 30 Jan 2018 17:18:08
MarkP08, Milner is shocking in centre midfield. I could list countless games where his positioning and reading of the game has been terrible. Full back is the only position that I would play him, not in the middle, he simply isn’t a centre midfielder.


7.) 30 Jan 2018 17:18:19
I look at Citeh and how much their manager rotates. He does not make that many changes and they are fighting on all 4 fronts. I believe we need to play our best 11 consistently if fitness allows.


8.) 30 Jan 2018 17:29:34
Mr Dennis in this game it is about getting back to basics. He doesn't need to do anything flash just give 100%. As I can't trust at least 2 of the other contenders he gets my support.

He plays in the center with Henderson. The others had a chance agains't Swansea and then a final chance agains't West Brom. As they failed and were gutless they are out.


9.) 30 Jan 2018 18:13:57
Milner can’t get the basics right either. He’s utterly woeful in centre midfield. Of all the poor performances he’s put in when playing there, the Man City game stands out (when his lack of ability in that position almost let them get a draw), as does his performance against Sevilla in the UEFA Cup final, in fact that was one of the worst centre midfield performances I’d seen since Christian Poulsen. There’s a reason he didn’t get games in centre midfield for Man City. Because he’s terrible in that position, anyone who watches the game can see he’s not capable of playing there. The only way he should be a starter is as a fullback. The fact is that we have the worst starting centre midfielders of any of the top six, it’s only the performances of Mane, Salah and Firmino that have disguised those failures. The laughable thing is that you genuinely believe that Milner or Henderson could have made a blind bit of difference if they started either game against Swansea or West Brom. That has left me in hysterics. None of our centre midfield players would start for any of our top six rivals.


10.) 30 Jan 2018 18:15:44
But markp with Milner on the pitch, the gaps man. Oh god the gaps. Even Gini or can playing mares leave less space in the middle. His endeavor is great but his positioning is just appalling. I’d prefer a kid from the youth team in instead. At least they’d only get better as the games went on.


11.) 30 Jan 2018 18:36:14
Rafa was our best tactician of recent years by a long chalk.
He didn’t make many bizarre decisions. Won the champions league and had us ranked #1 in Europe. We’ve not won much since.
Legendary manager, huge amount of respect for the job he did 🏆.


12.) 30 Jan 2018 18:43:42
lets wait and see.


13.) 30 Jan 2018 18:50:07
Aoe read the post It is only for this one game I would play him.


14.) 30 Jan 2018 18:52:46
Mark, I love your optimism and I'm with you on that. Having said that, Milner is a disaster in CM. The guy was brought on vs City and he was everywhere and nowhere at the same time and did NOTHING to protect the back four and you wonder why City scored two goals after Can left the pitch. Also, Milner had the chance to wack the ball out of the pitch in that game. What does he do? He whacks Aguero that leads to the last minute free kick that had us shaking in our boots. Milner is not the answer and never will be in CM.


15.) 30 Jan 2018 19:11:39
Milner just can’t read the game well enough to play in centre midfield, compare him with someone like Lucas Leiva who actually read the game fantastically and did the defensive stuff brilliantly. Milner lacks the intelligence, the organisation and ability to play in the middle like that, he’s a complete liability.


16.) 30 Jan 2018 19:17:17
He is not playing agains't City he is playing tonight. All he has to do is match their work rate and application and give the ball to our better players.


He is in the team so we will soon see who is right.


17.) 30 Jan 2018 19:25:34
Regardless, any match he plays he leaves gaps. You just can't trust the lad any time. I appreciate its for a single match but I'd still prefer a kid to get a chance.


 

 

16 Sep 2017 21:11:21
So we could have won all 5 games? The main reason why we haven't is the defence.
How can they have looked at all these players and not seen a single better defender out there?
I know he can't publicly attack the team/ squad, but he either actually believes it or the club did not work hard enough to solve the problem.
We supposedly need defenders comfortable playing a high line, have pace and are comfortable on the ball.
I don't think Lovren, Klavan or Matip have all the qualities we supposedly need and on top of that there are positional and concentration issues?
Forget trying to find the supposed ultimate defender and actually just upgrade what we have.
The only issue will be offering enough money to get the deal done and/ or keeping quiet about it until it is done.
How many of our defenders would get into any of the top 6? Top 10? Any other Premier League team?
Come on now, that's 4-5 transfer windows and we have spent relative peanuts on the defence and you can't really argue that it has improved.
Personnel wise, the RB slot is better as Johnson has been upgraded.
You could argue that the CB slots are weaker, especially with letting Sakho go.
I understand there were issues, but what did he do that was so bad?
Was it any worse than saying he would never play for the club again? That his relationship with the manager had deteriorated? That he handed in a transfer request?
I really hope it's not a case of cutting the nose off to spite the face.

I don't want Klopp to go, I just wish the defence was such a talking point after every damn point dropped :- (.

RedAllOverButNotSore

1.) 16 Sep 2017 22:53:53
Rubbish. If conceding goals is the fault of the defence then not scoring is the fault of the attackers. We didon't score vs City so we couldn't av won that game even if they had kept clean sheet. We had 35 shots against Burnley and scored 1 goal, is that also the defences fault?
Give criticism when it's due, but make it constructive and based sound rationale.


2.) 16 Sep 2017 23:15:15
It's the defences fault that we conceded early to a soft goal. That put us on the back foot. 35 shots doesn't tell the full story, the vast majority of them were speculative shots not clear cut opportunities. We certainly didn't over work their keeper. Because all they had to do was sit back and soak up the pressure.


3.) 16 Sep 2017 23:20:33
I was talking about the defence in general, but if you want to discuss the number of attempts we had, to the number of goals we scored today, that is fine.
How about the fact that they actually defended like a defence should do. No brain farts, lapses in concentration, schoolboy error, bad positioning.
We are conceding on a very high ratio of opposition attacks, so that points to exactly how bad our defence is.
I would love the attack to outscore the number of goals we concede, but would rather they didn't have to nearly every damn game, as there are games where they will struggle to score 1, let alone the 3 we seem to need at the moment.
We concede sloppy chances when the opposition haven't had to work that hard to get the opening and then concede off of nearly all of these sloppy chances.

As for the bit about could have won these 5 games, this was what was quoted in the press after the game today.
My response was that it was not the case, especially when we have these defensive deficiencies at the moment.


4.) 16 Sep 2017 23:44:50
I'd be happy if our side when we don't have the ball didn't look like a group of headless chickens. We're just so disorganized it's ridiculous. I realize this is at least somewhat by design, but it just seems like a terrible way to do things to me.


5.) 17 Sep 2017 00:17:29
Well we could set up like Burnley. . I'm sure our goal to chance ratio conceding would improve. You will quite happily absolve the attack for a poor goal to chance ratio whilst criticise the defence for a poor goal to chance ratio. It is inconsistent at best and floored at worst. Notwithstanding the fact that teams that park the bus can sometimes have this skewed statistic. That's the whole point of parking the bus! If it wasn't successful then teams wouldn't do it. I just think it's a poor example of trying to make your point.


6.) 17 Sep 2017 01:40:40
If Lovren or Klven had been playing for Burnley today, they'd have looked world beaters,

Because of the protection the back four were given by 4-5 players infront of them.

Of course our conceded goal was down to individual errors but sometimes you have to question the system of play.


7.) 17 Sep 2017 07:27:03
Of course it isn't.
Stop trying to defend a defence that is so crap and should have been sorted out a long time ago.
The attack will have off-days.
They will also come up against good defences (even ones that don't park the bus) .
Yet every defence the attack plays against is better than ours - there can't be any denying this.
The problem with the game yesterday is that once the defence gave up it's customary goal, the attack then has to score at least twice, when under normal circumstances, only one would have done.
This creates that little bit more anxiety, urgency and maybe panic.
Shots are affected, through-balls and passed are affected.
Yes, on another day we still could have won the game had the attack taken just one more of those opportunities, but the actual situation is that they only needed to because of our own defence!
Also, we were actually lucky to not have lost with those other sloppy chances given the opposition in the closing minutes.


8.) 18 Sep 2017 01:06:28
True, but Burnley protected their back 4, that's why we found it hard to break them down,

If we score first it makes it easier for us as the other team has to push up looking for an equaliser, leaving space behind.

Its why Utd are ages getting the first but then bang in late goals as the other team must go for it.


 

 

13 Sep 2017 22:00:11
Anyone have any insight into Melwood etc with regards to Klopp and the defence?

Does he think our defenders are good enough?

Does the defence get coached at all?

What the hell is wrong with Lovren? He is so bad, I think I would rather have Skrtel back :- (

The defence should be the platform of the team, yet the attack are constantly having to bail them out. It breads a lack of confidence, anxiety and frustration.

We give the opposition easy chances to score all the damn time, even when we are on top and/ or the other team are playing crap.

I'm sick of this every bloody game!

RedAllOverButNotSore

1.) 13 Sep 2017 22:08:45
We practice running really fast whilst defense plays connect four and read Harry potter books.


2.) 13 Sep 2017 22:06:51
We might need to score 4 every game!


3.) 13 Sep 2017 22:12:21
Lovren has not become poor all of a sudden. He has been crap from years but Klopp love him and dropping him for Klavan is even worse!


4.) 13 Sep 2017 22:13:34
The whole team needs to be the platform, not only the defenders. Especially with the way we play and the way we want to press - the whole team needs to work hard to keep the opposition off the ball, including the attackers.

With that said, I'm gutted with the easy chances Seville were offered today.


5.) 13 Sep 2017 22:34:21
Red Flagon, all we asked Lovren to do was clear the ball and he managed to even screw that up. It does not matter with the style of play as that was not the issue today. The issue was that Lovren royally screwed up and so did our attack cos we should have been 4-1 up by half time. That is the problem. The guy is uniquely gifted at panicking at every turn even in situations where there is no danger.


6.) 13 Sep 2017 23:13:18
Exactly my point Bingo. Defence should have done better and the same goes for our attackers. The whole team is the platform.

Lovren should have cleared that ball, no denying that. Bobby should have scored that penalty, no denying that. The whole team should have done better today.

I won't go further into discussing our defenders, been doing it all day.


 

 

01 Sep 2017 14:06:54
Do we play such a unique style of football that VVD was the only option we could have gone for at CB?

Why has this major weakness in our team/ squad not been addressed again?

Lovren is a good CB for a certain style of team (mainly one that offers him more protection with a DM just in front and FB's that hold the line rather than bomb forward.

He does not suit our style, but we are now stuck with it.

I don't think Mignolet helps him either to be honest. If he was more commanding of his area, that could take away a lot of the 'mistakes' made by the CB's, where it appears they don't mark the goal scorer or watch them drift right past them.

Our attack is going to have to be better than our defence all season. We just have to hope it will be. It's going to come down to the games where we don't quite get it right going forward and struggle to score more than one. That is where the defence needs to perform.

The next piece of business that has to be done is the new contract for Emre. I know we have Keita coming in, but Can is going to be a beast of a midfielder and it would be a mistake to let him walk away.

Overall, not a bad window, but for me we missed a trick in not improving the CB area.

It's going to be interesting to see how Coutinho gets re-integrated back into the team, if Sturridge and Henderson can stay fit, if Can signs a new contract and then what happens in the January window plus how close we are at that time too.

RedAllOverButNotSore

1.) 01 Sep 2017 14:27:50
The key thing is probably your penultimate comment, it is about improving not just bringing in someone cos they're available and not one of our existing players. There aren't that many top CBs around and even less that are available, in fact it would seem available to move to LFC (or any top club) was pretty much the sum of 0. So really it was a better than usual window as stupid money wasn't spent taking a chance on someone probably no better than current squad.


2.) 01 Sep 2017 14:31:50
I think it is pretty clear that Klopp made the decision that if he could not get the CB he wanted then he was not going to bring any in.

That is the way our transfer business should have been run for many a moon now. You just have to look at how spending was done before Klopp arrived.

Kid in a candy shop with money falling out of the pockets style.


3.) 01 Sep 2017 15:27:22
Spot on, Max. The peeing in the wind transfer strategy needs to stop. BTW, this same defence is the same one that has kept 7 clean sheets out of the last 9 PL games as well so they are not as hopeless as many of our fans and the media make it out to be.


 

 

 

RedAllOverButNotSore's rumour replies

 

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23 Dec 2017 22:46:31
It's most likely going to either be us or Man City. A few places are reporting that it is City, but nothing concrete yet.

RedAllOverButNotSore

 

 

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25 Aug 2017 14:28:54
At this moment I thin AOC would be an upgrade on Lovren at CB ;-)

RedAllOverButNotSore

{Ed025's Note - so would avi cohen..


 

 

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I would love to have him back - if it ever came to that.
There's a lot of talk about wanting to get rid of Alonso for Barry, but go back to that actual time.
Alonso wasn't in the best form and hadn't been for a good season-season and a half (around about the time that fat Frank broke his ankle).
Barry and Gerrard worked great for England at the time and you can't deny how well Barry has played.
Given the form of Alonso, He was a saleable asset (I think Juventus and Arsenal were sniffing around the £16m mark and the owners were bleeding the club dry.
The trouble is Alonso went on to have his best ever season, but the foundations for his departure had already been laid and he wanted out.
Yes Rafa tried to sell him, but in a way he was forced (unless there is more to the above story).
I never feared getting beaten when we played and you can't argue with what he achieved or how close he came.
I know they say never go back and if the owners do get rid of BR I will support whoever replaces him.
I'm just saying that I wouldn't mind it being Rafa

RedAllOverButNotSore

 

 

 

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24 Dec 2017 11:49:05
Also, we have to improve our defence. He may not have been playing at his previous levels, but he is no a brain-fart defender like Lovren, so our defence is immediately improved. He's also, quick, strong and good in the air.
Drop Mignolet (he must have a folder of naked pictures of Klopp or something to continue getting picked. If it's not by blackmail, then I have no clue what it is) and replace Lovren with VVD and the opposition gall threat I greatly reduced.

RedAllOverButNotSore

 

 

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17 Sep 2017 07:27:03
Of course it isn't.
Stop trying to defend a defence that is so crap and should have been sorted out a long time ago.
The attack will have off-days.
They will also come up against good defences (even ones that don't park the bus) .
Yet every defence the attack plays against is better than ours - there can't be any denying this.
The problem with the game yesterday is that once the defence gave up it's customary goal, the attack then has to score at least twice, when under normal circumstances, only one would have done.
This creates that little bit more anxiety, urgency and maybe panic.
Shots are affected, through-balls and passed are affected.
Yes, on another day we still could have won the game had the attack taken just one more of those opportunities, but the actual situation is that they only needed to because of our own defence!
Also, we were actually lucky to not have lost with those other sloppy chances given the opposition in the closing minutes.

RedAllOverButNotSore

 

 

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16 Sep 2017 23:20:33
I was talking about the defence in general, but if you want to discuss the number of attempts we had, to the number of goals we scored today, that is fine.
How about the fact that they actually defended like a defence should do. No brain farts, lapses in concentration, schoolboy error, bad positioning.
We are conceding on a very high ratio of opposition attacks, so that points to exactly how bad our defence is.
I would love the attack to outscore the number of goals we concede, but would rather they didn't have to nearly every damn game, as there are games where they will struggle to score 1, let alone the 3 we seem to need at the moment.
We concede sloppy chances when the opposition haven't had to work that hard to get the opening and then concede off of nearly all of these sloppy chances.

As for the bit about could have won these 5 games, this was what was quoted in the press after the game today.
My response was that it was not the case, especially when we have these defensive deficiencies at the moment.

RedAllOverButNotSore

 

 

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04 Sep 2017 16:43:27
Not another player with a back injury. who did we refuse to sell him to? :-)

RedAllOverButNotSore

{Ed025's Note - who the hell would buy him??..


 

 

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17 Aug 2017 21:57:56
I'm not saying this because Firmino is one of my favourite players, but if there are 30 goals to be scored, I would rather have 3 chipping in with 10 each than one player scoring 30.

It means there is food team, shared workload, the goals are spread and we're not relying on one player to score.

It is the defence and the system helping defensively that needs sorting.

Up-front and the attacking midfielder is perfectly fine thanks.

Let's have a commanding keeper that instills confidence in the defence.

A CB that Marshall's the back 4, without making everyone feel like we're going to concede off of every cross or set-piece. A nice world class DM sitting in front of the defence would be awesome.

So that's Mignolet dropped, Lovren dropped, VVD and Keita signed and a starting role for Ward to see what he can do ;-)

RedAllOverButNotSore