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16 Sep 2017 21:11:21
So we could have won all 5 games? The main reason why we haven't is the defence.
How can they have looked at all these players and not seen a single better defender out there?
I know he can't publicly attack the team/ squad, but he either actually believes it or the club did not work hard enough to solve the problem.
We supposedly need defenders comfortable playing a high line, have pace and are comfortable on the ball.
I don't think Lovren, Klavan or Matip have all the qualities we supposedly need and on top of that there are positional and concentration issues?
Forget trying to find the supposed ultimate defender and actually just upgrade what we have.
The only issue will be offering enough money to get the deal done and/ or keeping quiet about it until it is done.
How many of our defenders would get into any of the top 6? Top 10? Any other Premier League team?
Come on now, that's 4-5 transfer windows and we have spent relative peanuts on the defence and you can't really argue that it has improved.
Personnel wise, the RB slot is better as Johnson has been upgraded.
You could argue that the CB slots are weaker, especially with letting Sakho go.
I understand there were issues, but what did he do that was so bad?
Was it any worse than saying he would never play for the club again? That his relationship with the manager had deteriorated? That he handed in a transfer request?
I really hope it's not a case of cutting the nose off to spite the face.

I don't want Klopp to go, I just wish the defence was such a talking point after every damn point dropped :- (.

RedAllOverButNotSore

1.) 16 Sep 2017 22:53:53
Rubbish. If conceding goals is the fault of the defence then not scoring is the fault of the attackers. We didon't score vs City so we couldn't av won that game even if they had kept clean sheet. We had 35 shots against Burnley and scored 1 goal, is that also the defences fault?
Give criticism when it's due, but make it constructive and based sound rationale.


2.) 16 Sep 2017 23:15:15
It's the defences fault that we conceded early to a soft goal. That put us on the back foot. 35 shots doesn't tell the full story, the vast majority of them were speculative shots not clear cut opportunities. We certainly didn't over work their keeper. Because all they had to do was sit back and soak up the pressure.


3.) 16 Sep 2017 23:20:33
I was talking about the defence in general, but if you want to discuss the number of attempts we had, to the number of goals we scored today, that is fine.
How about the fact that they actually defended like a defence should do. No brain farts, lapses in concentration, schoolboy error, bad positioning.
We are conceding on a very high ratio of opposition attacks, so that points to exactly how bad our defence is.
I would love the attack to outscore the number of goals we concede, but would rather they didn't have to nearly every damn game, as there are games where they will struggle to score 1, let alone the 3 we seem to need at the moment.
We concede sloppy chances when the opposition haven't had to work that hard to get the opening and then concede off of nearly all of these sloppy chances.

As for the bit about could have won these 5 games, this was what was quoted in the press after the game today.
My response was that it was not the case, especially when we have these defensive deficiencies at the moment.


4.) 16 Sep 2017 23:44:50
I'd be happy if our side when we don't have the ball didn't look like a group of headless chickens. We're just so disorganized it's ridiculous. I realize this is at least somewhat by design, but it just seems like a terrible way to do things to me.


5.) 17 Sep 2017 00:17:29
Well we could set up like Burnley. . I'm sure our goal to chance ratio conceding would improve. You will quite happily absolve the attack for a poor goal to chance ratio whilst criticise the defence for a poor goal to chance ratio. It is inconsistent at best and floored at worst. Notwithstanding the fact that teams that park the bus can sometimes have this skewed statistic. That's the whole point of parking the bus! If it wasn't successful then teams wouldn't do it. I just think it's a poor example of trying to make your point.


6.) 17 Sep 2017 01:40:40
If Lovren or Klven had been playing for Burnley today, they'd have looked world beaters,

Because of the protection the back four were given by 4-5 players infront of them.

Of course our conceded goal was down to individual errors but sometimes you have to question the system of play.


7.) 17 Sep 2017 07:27:03
Of course it isn't.
Stop trying to defend a defence that is so crap and should have been sorted out a long time ago.
The attack will have off-days.
They will also come up against good defences (even ones that don't park the bus) .
Yet every defence the attack plays against is better than ours - there can't be any denying this.
The problem with the game yesterday is that once the defence gave up it's customary goal, the attack then has to score at least twice, when under normal circumstances, only one would have done.
This creates that little bit more anxiety, urgency and maybe panic.
Shots are affected, through-balls and passed are affected.
Yes, on another day we still could have won the game had the attack taken just one more of those opportunities, but the actual situation is that they only needed to because of our own defence!
Also, we were actually lucky to not have lost with those other sloppy chances given the opposition in the closing minutes.


8.) 18 Sep 2017 01:06:28
True, but Burnley protected their back 4, that's why we found it hard to break them down,

If we score first it makes it easier for us as the other team has to push up looking for an equaliser, leaving space behind.

Its why Utd are ages getting the first but then bang in late goals as the other team must go for it.


 

 

13 Sep 2017 22:00:11
Anyone have any insight into Melwood etc with regards to Klopp and the defence?

Does he think our defenders are good enough?

Does the defence get coached at all?

What the hell is wrong with Lovren? He is so bad, I think I would rather have Skrtel back :- (

The defence should be the platform of the team, yet the attack are constantly having to bail them out. It breads a lack of confidence, anxiety and frustration.

We give the opposition easy chances to score all the damn time, even when we are on top and/ or the other team are playing crap.

I'm sick of this every bloody game!

RedAllOverButNotSore

1.) 13 Sep 2017 22:08:45
We practice running really fast whilst defense plays connect four and read Harry potter books.


2.) 13 Sep 2017 22:06:51
We might need to score 4 every game!


3.) 13 Sep 2017 22:12:21
Lovren has not become poor all of a sudden. He has been crap from years but Klopp love him and dropping him for Klavan is even worse!


4.) 13 Sep 2017 22:13:34
The whole team needs to be the platform, not only the defenders. Especially with the way we play and the way we want to press - the whole team needs to work hard to keep the opposition off the ball, including the attackers.

With that said, I'm gutted with the easy chances Seville were offered today.


5.) 13 Sep 2017 22:34:21
Red Flagon, all we asked Lovren to do was clear the ball and he managed to even screw that up. It does not matter with the style of play as that was not the issue today. The issue was that Lovren royally screwed up and so did our attack cos we should have been 4-1 up by half time. That is the problem. The guy is uniquely gifted at panicking at every turn even in situations where there is no danger.


6.) 13 Sep 2017 23:13:18
Exactly my point Bingo. Defence should have done better and the same goes for our attackers. The whole team is the platform.

Lovren should have cleared that ball, no denying that. Bobby should have scored that penalty, no denying that. The whole team should have done better today.

I won't go further into discussing our defenders, been doing it all day.


 

 

01 Sep 2017 14:06:54
Do we play such a unique style of football that VVD was the only option we could have gone for at CB?

Why has this major weakness in our team/ squad not been addressed again?

Lovren is a good CB for a certain style of team (mainly one that offers him more protection with a DM just in front and FB's that hold the line rather than bomb forward.

He does not suit our style, but we are now stuck with it.

I don't think Mignolet helps him either to be honest. If he was more commanding of his area, that could take away a lot of the 'mistakes' made by the CB's, where it appears they don't mark the goal scorer or watch them drift right past them.

Our attack is going to have to be better than our defence all season. We just have to hope it will be. It's going to come down to the games where we don't quite get it right going forward and struggle to score more than one. That is where the defence needs to perform.

The next piece of business that has to be done is the new contract for Emre. I know we have Keita coming in, but Can is going to be a beast of a midfielder and it would be a mistake to let him walk away.

Overall, not a bad window, but for me we missed a trick in not improving the CB area.

It's going to be interesting to see how Coutinho gets re-integrated back into the team, if Sturridge and Henderson can stay fit, if Can signs a new contract and then what happens in the January window plus how close we are at that time too.

RedAllOverButNotSore

1.) 01 Sep 2017 14:27:50
The key thing is probably your penultimate comment, it is about improving not just bringing in someone cos they're available and not one of our existing players. There aren't that many top CBs around and even less that are available, in fact it would seem available to move to LFC (or any top club) was pretty much the sum of 0. So really it was a better than usual window as stupid money wasn't spent taking a chance on someone probably no better than current squad.


2.) 01 Sep 2017 14:31:50
I think it is pretty clear that Klopp made the decision that if he could not get the CB he wanted then he was not going to bring any in.

That is the way our transfer business should have been run for many a moon now. You just have to look at how spending was done before Klopp arrived.

Kid in a candy shop with money falling out of the pockets style.


3.) 01 Sep 2017 15:27:22
Spot on, Max. The peeing in the wind transfer strategy needs to stop. BTW, this same defence is the same one that has kept 7 clean sheets out of the last 9 PL games as well so they are not as hopeless as many of our fans and the media make it out to be.


 

 

22 Aug 2017 09:55:54
Obviously Sakho did some silly things and got himself barred from the 1st team.

Many will argue that he is currently our best CB.

This makes the situation worse as we could be seen to be cutting our nose off to spite our face.

Now we move on to Coutinho. Pretty much threw all the toys out of the pram, said he wouldn't play for LFC again, his relationship with Klopp had deteriorated over the past 6 months and has basically made Klopp and LFC look bad.

Now it looks like he isn't going to be moving and the noises have started to make it appear that all is being back-tracked blah blah blah.

The end result we know is that he will be integrated back into the team.

Surely he has done more harm than Sakho, yet Sakho isn't getting a sniff of a chance.

Did something more serious go on that we aren't being made aware of with Sakho or is Klopp just being stubborn?

RedAllOverButNotSore

1.) 22 Aug 2017 10:04:03
Maybe it's because Coutinho can be trusted to eventually get back on with it and apply himself, whereas Sakho can't be trusted.


2.) 22 Aug 2017 10:08:31
I really do not believe that Sakho was/ is our best defender.

He did well at Palace but playing in a completely different, very deep lying defence.

I've always thought he was alright but he is not going to be our saviour and turn our defence around.


3.) 22 Aug 2017 10:13:25
It will be interesting to see how He gets on with Klopp form here on. The Normal Klopp doesn't compromise on such antics. But then you can't complain if a player wants out to a perticular club.


4.) 22 Aug 2017 10:34:40
Yes Sakho is a good player. But you lot who think he's the saviour were also moaning about the defence when he was a regular! I can see why klopp has eyes fixed on Van Dijk he offers the pace to play highline that often exposes our cbks and also very strong in air and attacks the ball.


5.) 22 Aug 2017 10:45:48
If we win the tie on Wed night then we will have got through the qualifying round with no help and only disruption from Coutinho. If the unthinkable happens and we get knocked out then his road to forgiveness amongst the fans could become longer.


6.) 22 Aug 2017 13:19:23
OP, Sahko is a right bell who takes responsibility for nothing and apologizes for nothing, blaming everyone else for his issues that he himself has caused and this has been the case since his PSG days. Suarez did way worse than both of those combined and yet he still stayed and nearly wo n us the PL so there is already precedent here. Vou will be dealt with in house, no question BUT that is where it needs to end so to not cut of our nose to spite our face. We need him and even Klopp knows it.

If you think Sahko is our best CB then you have not been watching him closely. He is by no means our best CB. Our CB's may not be great BUT to say that Sahko is the best is way off mark. I do understand that it is easy to think a player is better than those playing cos well, he's not playing. You seem to forget that we have had Sahko for three seasons playing here and our defence was still crap, conceding 150 goals in that span but hey, what do I know?


7.) 22 Aug 2017 16:20:40
As "many" have now pointed out, he was part of the garbage performances and is not going to change things. Palace were set up to suit and he was trying to get himself a move. There is plenty of evidence that he isn't as good as some keep trying to make out.


 

 

16 Aug 2017 10:29:47
When there are disciplinary issues with a player, the club issue a fine - usually 2 weeks?

What happens if it is a continual problem - for example, a player says I'm not playing for the club ever again, missing training, not turning up etc etc.

Can the club just keep dishing out 2 weeks fines every 2 weeks or does it have to be referred to a higher source to mediate?

RedAllOverButNotSore

{Ed002's Note - It is a maximum of two weeks wages. Clubs are naturally not going to want to get in to a conflict and often the PFA will intervene before it goes too far.}


 

 

 

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25 Aug 2017 14:28:54
At this moment I thin AOC would be an upgrade on Lovren at CB ;-)

RedAllOverButNotSore

{Ed025's Note - so would avi cohen..


 

 

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I would love to have him back - if it ever came to that.
There's a lot of talk about wanting to get rid of Alonso for Barry, but go back to that actual time.
Alonso wasn't in the best form and hadn't been for a good season-season and a half (around about the time that fat Frank broke his ankle).
Barry and Gerrard worked great for England at the time and you can't deny how well Barry has played.
Given the form of Alonso, He was a saleable asset (I think Juventus and Arsenal were sniffing around the £16m mark and the owners were bleeding the club dry.
The trouble is Alonso went on to have his best ever season, but the foundations for his departure had already been laid and he wanted out.
Yes Rafa tried to sell him, but in a way he was forced (unless there is more to the above story).
I never feared getting beaten when we played and you can't argue with what he achieved or how close he came.
I know they say never go back and if the owners do get rid of BR I will support whoever replaces him.
I'm just saying that I wouldn't mind it being Rafa

RedAllOverButNotSore

 

 

 

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17 Sep 2017 07:27:03
Of course it isn't.
Stop trying to defend a defence that is so crap and should have been sorted out a long time ago.
The attack will have off-days.
They will also come up against good defences (even ones that don't park the bus) .
Yet every defence the attack plays against is better than ours - there can't be any denying this.
The problem with the game yesterday is that once the defence gave up it's customary goal, the attack then has to score at least twice, when under normal circumstances, only one would have done.
This creates that little bit more anxiety, urgency and maybe panic.
Shots are affected, through-balls and passed are affected.
Yes, on another day we still could have won the game had the attack taken just one more of those opportunities, but the actual situation is that they only needed to because of our own defence!
Also, we were actually lucky to not have lost with those other sloppy chances given the opposition in the closing minutes.

RedAllOverButNotSore

 

 

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16 Sep 2017 23:20:33
I was talking about the defence in general, but if you want to discuss the number of attempts we had, to the number of goals we scored today, that is fine.
How about the fact that they actually defended like a defence should do. No brain farts, lapses in concentration, schoolboy error, bad positioning.
We are conceding on a very high ratio of opposition attacks, so that points to exactly how bad our defence is.
I would love the attack to outscore the number of goals we concede, but would rather they didn't have to nearly every damn game, as there are games where they will struggle to score 1, let alone the 3 we seem to need at the moment.
We concede sloppy chances when the opposition haven't had to work that hard to get the opening and then concede off of nearly all of these sloppy chances.

As for the bit about could have won these 5 games, this was what was quoted in the press after the game today.
My response was that it was not the case, especially when we have these defensive deficiencies at the moment.

RedAllOverButNotSore

 

 

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04 Sep 2017 16:43:27
Not another player with a back injury. who did we refuse to sell him to? :-)

RedAllOverButNotSore

{Ed025's Note - who the hell would buy him??..


 

 

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17 Aug 2017 21:57:56
I'm not saying this because Firmino is one of my favourite players, but if there are 30 goals to be scored, I would rather have 3 chipping in with 10 each than one player scoring 30.

It means there is food team, shared workload, the goals are spread and we're not relying on one player to score.

It is the defence and the system helping defensively that needs sorting.

Up-front and the attacking midfielder is perfectly fine thanks.

Let's have a commanding keeper that instills confidence in the defence.

A CB that Marshall's the back 4, without making everyone feel like we're going to concede off of every cross or set-piece. A nice world class DM sitting in front of the defence would be awesome.

So that's Mignolet dropped, Lovren dropped, VVD and Keita signed and a starting role for Ward to see what he can do ;-)

RedAllOverButNotSore

 

 

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16 Aug 2017 14:45:17
I have no issue with the FB's bombing forward or Moreno chasing down their keeper.

It is the result of this that needs addressing.

Lovren has to cover Moreno so is out of position and once he gets beat, Matip only just got a toe on the cross.
I know that's what they are there to do, but if we had a DM or midfielder with either the brains or instructions to help out, we wouldn't have half as many defensive issues as we do.

On this basis I can see why the arguments for 3 CB's might work, as it allows for more central cover when one CB is moving to cover the FB position, but it would still require a midfielder to be keeping an eye on what is going on to be there if required.

I don't know if it is under instruction that they do this, or that they lack the intelligence to take on-board the coaching or maybe they are not coached this way at all?

I like the speed and trickery that Moreno offers. I also like having a proper left-footer playing that side, it just means the system needs to be covering the flaws, temporary shape-changes if a move breaks down etc.

RedAllOverButNotSore