Liverpool banter 2

20 May 2024 13:21:46
I would not be surprised to see us use natural CB's at full back next season under Slot. Arsenal do with White/ Timber and City do with Gvardiol/ Ake/ Akanji. Even Walker is very happy to sit back and actually played in a back 3 for England for several years due to his unadventurous style. I've often said on here that it is the key difference why it works for them and not us.

When a defender steps out to give you the numerical advantage in the midfield it leaves you short/ narrow at the back and City and Arsenal both get around this lack of defensive width by having more defensively solid (or just less adventurous) players in at least one of the full back positions, allowing them to seamlessly morph into a back 3 at times but also let especially Gvadriol or White push on as well in the right moments.

I'd not be at all surprised to see players like Konate, Quansah, Sepp VdB if he returns, Gomez if he stays, Pacho if he signs etc starting at right/ left back. I just don't think you can have Trent moving into midfield AND Robertson bombing on past Diaz every time. It left Virgil and Matip/ Konate far too much to do as they were having to try and get across to cover right back whilst also hoping Robbo could track back quicker than their winger could break forward (which he's been struggling with more and more as he ages) .

The year we won the league with Trent and Robbo both bombing on we had Virgil and Gomez both pre-knee-injury and they were absolute speed demons who could cover the whole width of the pitch very well even if Trent and Robbo were slow to track back. At times you could even leave them 2 vs 3 and Virgil was good enough to make it work. However Trent also going high and wide pushed back their wingers on both sides so Gomez and Virgil had more protection as long as Robbo and Trent followed their wingers back. Trent going into midfield doesn't drag the winger back with him, so poor Konate/ Matip have been having to stand up left wingers on the regular and try and the defend the middle of the pitch also.

I think using CB's at full back more often is the next step in the evolution of our team if Slot wants to bring his inverted full back style over with him. Time may totally prove me wrong, but it's where I personally see the gap in the system as we have deployed it.

20 May 2024 14:12:25
Whilst I don;t completely disagree I do think that it far more complicated than that.

At our peak, Trent and Robbo pretty much played as wingers leaving our 2 CB as the only defenders and we had a fantastic defensive record. This wasn't just down to their pace, there were several other factors:

1. We kept the ball far better. We didn't give up possession easily like we do now with slow play and sloppy passes.
2. When we did give the ball away we had the best front 3 in the world at winning back possession with the high press. Very often when we lost possession we immediately won it back without the opposition having the chance to attack.
3. All of our midfielders were ball winning midfielders. If they got past the front 3 the midfield would often win back the ball. Our current midfield lack this in abundance.
4. We had peak Fabinho who could offer unrivalled protection to our defence or drop into defence to make a back 3.

I would love to see a return to this kind of football so for me I would love to see a world class DM brought in (if there are any out there? ) and see Trent and Robbo go back to being full on wing backs. I also think it would see Nunez thrive with balls crossed into the box rather than trying to play intricate passes through 2 narrow banks of 4 that the opposition have put on the edge of their box.

20 May 2024 14:12:57
Sounds like something we were trying to implement anyway given we were linked to Colwill, Inacio, Theate or Hincapie - all LCBs adept at playing LB - last summer.

We even had Robbo shuffling inside at the start of the season to make a back three which seems to be working ok until his injury. Then Tsimikas and Gomez were playing that way while Robbo was out.

Honestly, I don't know what to think of it. Current Premier League coaches are obsessed with this press-baiting/ foot-on-ball tedium and I feel like attacking football is suffering as a result. We are fawning over defenders than can step into midfield and make progressive passes and whining about the output of our forwards. We are a team and fanbase that thrives on energy and momentum and this style of football dampens that.

20 May 2024 14:27:55
MK amazingly we had 3 Centre backs playing on quite a few occasions this season in Gomez at full back.

But more often than not he was the one chosen to invert rather than defend.

20 May 2024 14:33:19
Either that or we by a top class DM and ask him to provide better protection for our defense. Endo been a great stop gap but we need a better player in there if we are going to carrying on playing with attacking full backs.

20 May 2024 15:42:55
Don't see the problem with Endo. he done really well. even if we buy a top class DM . he can't play every game . n Endo is suited there more than any other player we've got.

20 May 2024 17:49:25
In my eyes when we played really well with klops 1st team, fabinio dropped in pretty much between our centre backs spreading the defensive load while Trent and robbo broke assist records.

20 May 2024 18:45:34
All good points in the replies. Either way seems like we all agree we found a balance between attack and defence in our old system and I think we can all agree we haven’t really had that same balance for a while and especially since Trent’s been inverting. Slot might decide to go a different way, but if he does stick to an inverted full back, how we rediscover that balance will be the key.

20 May 2024 19:25:03
Fully agree with your oh post MK. I don't like this inverted fullbacks system but if we are going with it we need to get rid of our traditional fullbacks and bring in adaptable multi positional players that fit the system like City i. e one out and out defender that is a rock (Dias) one CB that steps into midfield (Stones) and two adaptable defenders that can play fullback and CB on either side like Akanji and Ake. Much prefer that system to our inverted full back one and I actually think we already have the players to do it. VVD is the rock, Bajcetic could be the CB that steps into midfield as he has always been a CB at youth level and broke through as a DM. Gomez and Sepp VDB can play the wider roles then move Trent into a double midfield pivot. That's what I'd do anyway but hey what do I know. Excited to find out!
Sign me up when Slot gets sacked Henry!

20 May 2024 19:49:40
"Trent going into midfield doesn't drag the winger back with him, so poor Konate/ Matip have been having to stand up left wingers on the regular and try and the defend the middle of the pitch also. "


MKS, this was the first problem I saw with the inverted situation and that was when we played Spurs where Jota scored the winning goal. I could not believe the gaps we were leaving behind and I was asking myslef, "Is anyone else seeing these probs. or is it just me? ". Well, thankfully it wasn't cos many on here (including Ed01) have said the same thing (s) and do not like this system.

That being said, a guy like Sepp (or his profile) is the best guy here (as Ed01 proposed) cos he is capable of playing RB and RCB and wingback hence, he can defend out wide in space as a CB or RB. Now sill he start? I don't think so and frankly, I don't see him being kept BUT to me, that is the type of profile we should be looking at in the CB position cos Slot will invert, whether I like it or not.

20 May 2024 10:41:37
Question for Ed033 (probably) - is there a time limit or 'number of posts returned' limit on search results? I tried searching on 'Dijk' to find posts from before VVD joined us and the search results stopped at 2020.

{Ed033's Note - Using VVD as the search term, results in posts as far back as 07 Aug 2017.

The search function is very limited on number of results and only searches Eds Notes.

20 May 2024 14:38:40
Ah OK, thanks '33.

20 May 2024 10:13:38
Edd001 is Henderson on good terms with klopp? Found it strange he never sent him a nice farewell message or wasn't including in the farewell message that including stevie, players etc. He was klopps longest serving captain.

{Ed001's Note - he did post something, I saw it this morning. }

20 May 2024 10:09:46
You know i think virgs embrace summed it up for everyone especially the fan base. The tears into the hug. Virg grew up without a father and i feel like for 20 odd years there was such a disconnection between the fans and the manager / owners. We were never close to really winning a PL but when klopp came, we just knew we had someone very special who was going to deliver.
I heard Carra compare him with the great Liverpool managers including benetiz and that's when i thought what an insult. Klopp is our generations shankly. He's way above benetiz. There should be a statue for klopp.

20 May 2024 11:30:48
Carra went through a list of great managers that Klopp was up there with. You can't just pick one out that you aren't happy with.

Rafa won the Champions League with one of the greatest ever second half comebacks. If you look at the squad he had you can see how immense this achievement was. Look how hard Pep found it to win with his billions of pounds at City.

Klopp is a legend and yes there should be something at the ground to immortalise hm but that doesn't mean you should belittle the achievements of those who came before him.

20 May 2024 11:38:58
Benitez wasnt as warm a character as Klopp but he definitely understood the club and the city.
Ultimately his time with us promised more than it delivered but there was a lot going on around the club and the emergence of Chelsea and strength of United made his task a difficult one.
There were however some great nights, a really good team that came together in 2008/ 09 and pretty much every European giant was humbled at one point or another.
Not quite Klopp levels but I have a lot of respect for Benitez and look back fondly on those years.

20 May 2024 11:49:24
I’d agree with that Mizer. Although we should forever be thankful to Rafa for Istanbul I didn’t particularly like him as a manager and was glad when he left.

Klopp could not be any further away from that. A true once in a lifetime manager that we were so very fortunate to have.

20 May 2024 12:46:05
I think Benitez got the club just as much as Klopp did and the main real difference is Klopp was given a far better foundation for success. Rafa had to try and manage under some absolute morons.

Rafa won a CL for us with a mid table team. Let's not rewrite history and pretend what Rafa did wasn't just as remarkable as what Klopp did in it's own way. Had FSG been in charge 6 years earlier, I genuinely believe Rafa would've won the league too. He came bloody close even with the mess behind the scenes he had to work with.

The guy still has a house in the area and comes back near on every year to pay his respects to the 97. He'll probably move back to Liverpool permanently when he retires. He embraced the people and the City just as much as Klopp did, he just simply didn't have the conditions required for success, yet he brought us some anyway. Put some respect on his name.

20 May 2024 12:59:57
Legit dying for Rafa to wake up one morning and say: "You know what? I think I will ring the FAI and ask to manage Ireland. I can still live in Liverpool if I do that. "

The man doesn't work for the paltry few pennies the FAI could pay him though.

20 May 2024 13:11:37
The fai would probably mess up the deal in the first meeting.

20 May 2024 13:58:20
Rafa was great for the club. he wasn't a character like Klopp but he got the club n fans . he used to go to bars with the fans etc but more importantly he wanted what was best for us . a winner end of.

20 May 2024 14:04:53
The managers we’ve had who have been champions of England or champions of Europe or both all deserve their legendary status.
To be compared to Rafa is being compared to a legend in my book.

20 May 2024 14:07:09
Rafa won us the champions league?! Lol. It was his fault we were trailing by 3 at half time. Benetiz was decent and became mediocre. He shouldn't be in the same convo as klopp.

20 May 2024 14:53:38
Aye Mizer, cos any other manager in the world would've dragged that lot into the CL final and easily won it.

20 May 2024 15:47:26
Yes Mizer Rafa won up the champions league. who do u think won it . the players on their own. he guided us through all the rounds . surely I don't have to name all the teams we beat on the way.

20 May 2024 17:15:55
Must have been someone else who made the tactical change at half time in Istanbul.

I always assumed it was the manager.

20 May 2024 18:55:26
What an absolutely awful and ungrateful take. Only 4 out of 20 permanent managers have won us the European cup in our 132 years of existence. Rafa is one of them. Paisley, Fagan, Rafa and Klopp are absolute legends for making us European royalty. This is possibly the worst opinion I have seen from any Liverpool fan, MIZER. Bordering on a disgrace that you felt you had to put down Rafa to praise Klopp. They’re both giants in our history. Rafa arguably gave us the greatest night in the clubs history. If anything ever tops Istanbul I’d be absolutely staggered. We had a bang average team and we came from 3 goals down to beat one of the best teams ever assembled being managed by arguably the greatest manager in Champions League History. I honestly don’t know what more to say. Your heads gone.

20 May 2024 19:35:15
Benitez won us the CL with quite possibly one of the worst squads LFC had save Roys awful tenure. FA cup the year after and at our best in those Benitez years we were one of the top 3 teams in Europe despite winning very little. Torres, Gerrard, Carra, Mascherano, Alonso, Skrtel, Kuyt, Benayoun, Maxi, Arbeloa, Agger. Great team that got undone in the league by freaks of the game like R7 at Utd. Top manager that loves the club and you want to knock him. Well done.

20 May 2024 23:56:17
I think klopps finished. Imo he's past his best. Unless he goes to Madrid full of superstars when IF he were to sign he'd do well. Anywherelse he's getting found out. He's been making terrible decisions these past 3 years and it's cost us. He's forgotten what made him successful as a manager and his style of play.
MIZER

From about 2 weeks ago. Enough said.

20 May 2024 08:56:47
Right then. Have we signed anyone yet? Arne Out.

20 May 2024 09:13:34
Nice one - I was thinking the same thing and am really pleased it has been done as a joke.

20 May 2024 11:17:48
I’m awaiting all the gambling puns the press will make if we are going through a rough spell.

20 May 2024 07:39:02
{Ed's Note - Dillinger has posted a new article entitled, EFL SIGNINGS FOR LEEDS UNITED

20 May 2024 06:18:58
Thinking back to Klopps speach, I dont't rember him saying anything about FSG. Struck me as a bit weird not to mention your employer. Was there a bit of a tiff there after all?

20 May 2024 07:23:22
Klopp’s emotional intelligence is one of his outstanding traits. He is as aware as anyone that FSG are not universally popular with the fanbase, including among some match-going fans.
But more than that, there is absolutely no reason to bring up any directors in what is a final special moment between a beloved manager, his team and the fans. In that moment, who cares about the owners? The only thing 60000 people in the ground wanted to do was celebrate with Klopp.

20 May 2024 07:54:25
He did specifically praise the club for not over spending and for doing things the right way to be fair.

Klopp's gone now. I don't think we need to create narratives. Let's be happy for the 9 years we've had with Klopp and look forward to the future under Slot.

20 May 2024 08:39:18
He didn't say anything about the tea lady. Has there been some sort of falling out there that we as fans should wildly speculate about for no good reason?

20 May 2024 09:15:48
To be fair, @SR, the tea lady didn’t pay his wages for the last 9 years. That said, it’s a case of ‘there’s nothing to see here’ imho.

20 May 2024 10:03:47
Nice joke, OP. Truly, I mean that. Wait you were joking, right?

20 May 2024 10:41:49
I was really surprised to not see Gomez get on yesterday.

Not that I’m speculating anything at all it’s just that Gomez has been a very much go to man this season.

20 May 2024 11:01:02
Why would he mention them?

Nothing to be seen here.

20 May 2024 11:38:17
Horrible watching John Henry during that presentation. Zero emotion and didn't look like he could be arsed being there.

20 May 2024 14:06:56
It’s well publicised that Klopp had a huge disagreement with the tea lady which has never been resolved. I think they just keep out of each others way.