Liverpool Banter 4

12 Oct 2026 04:05:48
It's obvious referees are paid and Premier League is protecting its image by not opening and investigating that can of worms

Its pretty obvious man city are in officials pocket.
Yesterday was just another example. Without a verdict without a punishment we allow cheaters to cheat and play.
Whats the point of it all really now when you know they have cheated and sort of just give up. Pretty much what happened yesterday with us. That decision took the soul out of the team and we gave up as it was pointless to play against rabid cheaters

On other note I hope AI saw that Gravy performance and realises that it has to be macca and gravy in midfield.
In terms of timing getting the red would probs mean gravy has to again fight for his place.
If it weren't a red we probably might have won and gravy would have been the MoM.
All because we allow cheats to play and have plastic balls.

Also all these city players and managers are in on it. 100% in on it. Wont be surprised if entire teams have been on something because these lads never tire.

I am a sore loser 100% but i can't look past cheating and in my experience if you get away with A in life you also get away with B and C if huge sums of money is involved.

12 Oct 2026 05:57:01
I don't know if this is true, but my son has just told me he's seen that Chris Kavanagh s brother is a season ticket at Man Cheaty. if this is true he shouldn't be anywhere near a Cheaty game and might explain a lot.

12 Oct 2026 08:03:20
I've seen that rumour too but no idea how true it is. However, surely if there was anyone with a brain cell, you would select someone outside of Manchester for the game. It brings added scrutiny. Regarding his performance, it felt like he bought all city theatrics. But the red glasses were definitely on so maybe I am being biased in that point.

Yesterday is the first time in a long time a game has annoyed me. Not due to performance or losing but the fact we are playing a team that is effectively a dead man walking. We know they cheated, we know they are getting punished yet the can continue as normal whilst the rest of the league waits. It's an utter shambles and the league is tarnished until it's resolved. It'd be like a boxer entering a ring when he knows the opponent has brass knuckles.

I love football like many of us on here, but until the punishment is served it kind of renders the league pointless. They could confine a team to relegation, stop a team being in Europe or ultimately stop Arsenal winning the league. How is that fair on everyone else that played by the book all because a state run club can throw enough hurdles to prolong the process?

12 Oct 2026 09:27:31
Apparently City are not bribing the refs, it's just the UAE 'investing' in them.

12 Oct 2026 09:37:53
First yellow was soft but then if I recall one of their players got a soft one shortly after too. Second one was a yellow imo - both him and Aruajo tried to stop the break away so could have been booked.

12 Oct 2026 10:05:42
In the mid 80s (??? ), Roy of the Rovers had a section 'You are the ref', where it posed questions of, as a ref, what you would do when certain situations arose.
They could never have foreseen the way the game has gone.
Yes, the game has 'gone'.

12 Oct 2026 10:39:06
Lastfanofslot, Grav played well along with Macca because both knew exactly what their jobs were and executed it perfectly. Grav has had his best game not just this season, but in ages going back to last season so I give him his flowers, for sure.

That being said because he had his best game in a log time, does not suddenly mean it has to be him with Macca because we need more games from him to prove last night was not an outlier.

As for Wirtz, he did not do his case any favours at all. There were a couple of times where the ball was fired into him and it came of his ankles and lost the ball and even I was infuriated because that is a situation that has nothing to do with tactics or formation or runners or whatever.

As for the game itself, we fought hard and played our hearts out if you consider how short-handed we were. We upped the tempo in the second half and were giving it to them. Well up until what happened, happened. We take the positives and move on.

City are still Cheats and will remain so on the record books for the rest of their miserable existence.

12 Oct 2026 10:50:59
I think we've got 1 ref based in Merseyside.?? And he's never officiated a Liverpool or Everton game.

12 Oct 2026 11:59:40
Aye, Grav and Mac executed their jobs perfectly. We lost by three goals at home and one of them was sent off.

12 Oct 2026 12:35:33
Yes and Grav shouldn't have been sent off should he.

12 Oct 2026 15:01:00
Grav and Macca were very good for the most part, Macca was winning the ball back, played the ball through the lines very well especially in the first half (blemished slightly by him doing his customary falling and then trying to buy a foul once or twice in the game instead of getting up and running back on the counter), Grav was doing vintage Grav things, was a split second too slow passing in the final third like always but was incredible surging up the field from deep.

If he could combine those slalom runs with better quality passing in and around the box, he would be a god tier player, that lack of a passing game really hampers him.

12 Oct 2026 00:52:31
No harm losing to this city side as they are top and playing well with some fantastic players. It's the Brentford's, Brightons etc which we need to be beating. My only concern and has been for a while is this creeping mentally of dressing like fashion models with banter yet doing sweet fa on the pitch.

As Keane said it's up to the players to go hang on do your job there, make a tackle, make something happen. It's not always the manager. The captain has to start leading on the field if not move it on to someone who will.

12 Oct 2026 02:34:51
City were not playing well before we lost Grav. If we had a fit striker and an honest ref we would have got a result.

12 Oct 2026 03:47:34
The sad thing is, City aren't playing well this season and weren't very good against us.

It's worth pointing out that we have Bradley, Leoni, Szoboszlai, Gakpo, Ekitike and Isak who would all probably feature in our match day squad if they were fit. We also have Barcola and Munoz who between them have played about 10 games for us.

I don't think there was an awful lot between us until the sending off but we weren't playing well, we were just 'holding our own'.

As I said somewhere else on here Wirtz is the right player but at the wrong time. He is an excellent footballer but isn't showing it because of the way the team is playing. Of course the new Head Coach will want to play his own way - which is fair enough - and I think his persistence with Wirtz is indicative that he will likely be a key component in the team when (if ever ) the transition is done. i just wish we could hurry things along a bit.

The whole thing is frustrating and today's match was the most frustrating game of the season today. We could have / should have have had them but we didn't go for it. Disappointing.

12 Oct 2026 06:41:07
Jesus, all that money spent to beat Brighton and Brentford?

12 Oct 2026 07:44:28
Excellent footballers can play in any team at anytime.

12 Oct 2026 09:30:29

The captain is making tackles,winning his headers,leading.Why are we criticise someone who has been excellent for us for the last 9 years because we have players who s**** themselves at the thought of a 50/50 tackle?He’s 35 now and will be gone soon so let’s heap the criticism on him?Maybe criticise the £100m players who were both showed up by a local lad who cost the club not a penny yesterday.

12 Oct 2026 09:49:03
@WarMachine, that sounds good but isn't necessarily true. An excellent player playing out of position - Rodger's with Firminho for example - we're a magnificent player was ineffective playing in the wrong position.

12 Oct 2026 09:55:28
But if Wirtz plays better, the team plays better.

12 Oct 2026 10:44:26
Without asking the guy, apoarantly Wirtz is playing exactly where he wants to WDW, central as a number 10. And again apparently, one of the reasons he signed for us was because that's where he wanted to play.

12 Oct 2026 10:47:08
Very nuanced comment there, WDW. Now Wirtz did not do himself any favours at all in the way he played because even I was mad it the simple things he was getting wrong, I will say that as for the 50/50 challenges, we have seen Wirtz win such challenges already and make tackles with afair amount of ball recoveries so not too arsed about that.

And even on the one with Anderson, Anderson was always going to get there first hence why Wirtz tried to flick the ball over his leg to win it. If Wirtz goes in studs showing, he would arrive late, crash into Anderson's ankle, severely injure him and get rightfully sent off.

Sorry if that is the cost of "getting stuck in" and "showing passion in the challenge" then that is rank stupidity trying to do all that in a challenge he was never going to win, imo.

Work smart. Not hard. Just my opinion.

12 Oct 2026 11:09:42
"Apparently" @WarNachine.

Like you say, you have no idea what role AI will have for him until AI brings in more players suited to the way he wants his team to play.

12 Oct 2026 12:03:29
So until AI builds a team around Wirtz he has a free card does he WDW. I think not, excuses are over - 60 games he's played and he has had a handful of decent games. He was also brought into a Premier League winning side and couldn't play with Salah either.

I hoped he would succeed and after 2-3 games this season I thought he had a chance, but he needs to raise his game now. He's got no more excuses.

12 Oct 2026 12:18:50
If Anderson was always going to get to the ball first how was Wirtz ever going to flick the ball over his legs, OliRed? That makes no sense.
I've no problem with Wirtz losing a tackle, especially against someone like Anderson, but he went in half hearted and ended up on the floor.
You don't have to win every tackle or even go flying into challenges but stay on your feet and in the game so that you are still useful to your teammates.
I realise that that isn't Wirtz' game but he wasn't doing what he should be doing as a creative player either.


I'm still hoping he'll come good but I'm struggling to see how he will. It's probably my lack of football insight- and there's obviously some ability there- but I keep getting told that not everyone sees what Wirtz does really well.
If he starts scoring goals and assisting them then those of us who can't see what he does do will get off his back.
I'm sure about that.

12 Oct 2026 13:23:51
Had Wirtz committed to that 50/50 he would have come away injured, Anderson had him beat, and he knew it. Sometimes you have to play smarter, not harder. Wirtz wasn't brough in to play DM and I don't recall anybody noting his tackling ability as one of the reasons we brought him in, so I've no idea why people are so concerned with him pulling out of a potentially dangerous 50/50 when he's the most lightweight player on the pitch.

12 Oct 2026 13:31:37
I'm sorry WarMachine but Wirtz likes to play 2 yards to the left of where Andoni has him playing. We can't be expecting anything from him under these conditions. Its all about them magical"half spaces".

12 Oct 2026 14:27:57
It's nothing to do with the tackle or lack of, it's his mentality. He's not showing conviction in anything he does, he looks and acts weak.

12 Oct 2026 14:31:30
The reason we are all disappointed with wirtz isn't because he doesn't win 50/50s

It's because he isn't creating anything. I'm a big wirtz fan but have to admit, he's actually getting worse not better. I think when szobo comes back he should be the starting 10 and wirtz should take some time in the bench.

In addition to taking him out the firing line it will mean when he does come on it will be against tired legs and maybe he'll be more effective.

Barcola was also bad yesterday, absolutely invisible and has been every game. I hope he improves but currently he's making me feel totally right in my opinion that he's not very good unless you're on the counter.

12 Oct 2026 15:44:59
If Anderson was always going to get to the ball first, it wasn't a 50/50.
If Wirtz had pulled out of the tackle properly he'd have stayed on his feet. He went in half hearted, ended up on the floor and stayed down.
Although Wirtz is creating very little, I'm told that he's working and pressing really hard.

Challenges like the one with Anderson make me doubt that.
As I've said, if he's doing what other top number tens do I'm fine with him closing down and staying on his feet without making crunching tackles.

13 Oct 2026 12:02:12
Exactly, Chewy. Not sure about all this nonsense being posted on here that he pulled out of a challenge he knew he would never win.

If he goes in there, he either injures himself or Anderson and then, what?

Rubbish.

11 Oct 2026 21:30:28
Would we take 80 mil for Wirtz in Jan? Pole Ed?

80 mil?
Don't sell.

{Ed033's Note -


Wirtz poll

11 Oct 2026 23:25:08
80m!? Are you kidding me? Who in their right mind is going to buy this lad from us for 80m haha get real. it would be unbelievable if we get over 50m for this guy. I'm glad more and more supporters are realising how bad this guy is for us. I thought it was slot that was holding this kid back but how wrong was I.

11 Oct 2026 23:22:26
Thanks Ed.

Your like a copper.

Never off duty.

{Ed033's Note - Hello, Hello, Hello.

11 Oct 2026 23:41:24
Wortz will fly when he is 27
:D.

11 Oct 2026 23:54:26
I'd bite their hand off for £80M, but who's going to be stupid enough to offer that kind of money?

{Ed666's Note - City 🤣

11 Oct 2026 23:55:29
Who would the 80mil be spent on?
January is quite a long way away.

It's hard to say how healthy the squad will be then. Hopefully no more serious injuries (fingers crossed).
Bear in mind Ekitike will be back too.

{Ed666's Note - Great point mate. Wirtz clearly shines when he’s got really good players around him. Hes not a Messi or a Ronaldo where he’s got divine skills. I’m sure we’ll see a better version of Wirtz when he’s got better players around him which includes January transfer window.

12 Oct 2026 00:10:05
I'd buy Josh king from Fulham.

12 Oct 2026 00:21:15
Wirtz is looking like baby 2.0 unfortunately.

12 Oct 2026 00:29:34
I think he'll go to Fiorentina in a swap deal with the ex Everton centre forward.
It'll work out, for Beto or for Wirtz.

12 Oct 2026 00:32:20
That was naby.

12 Oct 2026 03:51:02
Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona and PSG for starters. You'd see an entirely different Wirtz with Mbappe and Dembele in front of him and Kvara and Doue either side of him.

12 Oct 2026 05:44:20
I think the price tag has made Wirtz the whipping boy at Liverpool. Wirtz is not the reason we lost yesterday and he is not the reason we are not playing like in the old Klopp days.

Someone would pay even more than 80 million if you ask me, and would play him correctly.

Why I worry the most is why are only Muñoz and to some degree Koumas, the only forward who are making runs for someone to pick them up.

Yesterday, City found a gap between Araujo and Jaquet and exploited it like crazy, we don't seem to find any of those pockets of space and is always congested shots or individual moments of brilliance. That is NOT how you win consistently football matches.

12 Oct 2026 05:48:48
It is entirely possible that Wirtz is an extremely good footballer who is just not cut out for the Premier League, we've seen it before and we will see it again, Juan Sebastián Verón being a prime example.

12 Oct 2026 06:43:30
Would playing with Mbappe and Dembele make him control the ball better or give it away a little less, maybe even put the odd boot in a tackle?

12 Oct 2026 07:16:56
Said no but only not at that price, think it's better for him to move on, it's probably taking a toll on him, it seems he's trying to hard and it's making it worse.

12 Oct 2026 10:11:11
That's grand so WDW. We'll just have to get players as good as them and we're flying. Shouldnt be difficult. Does this argument not work for everyone though? Would Isak not look much better if the player responsible for opening up defenders behind him was not so ineffective?

12 Oct 2026 11:13:46
@FM, perhaps you misunderstood, or you're being deliberately obtuse. If AI manages to get (most of) th3 squad he wants Wirtz looks like he'll be an integral part of the finished article.

{Ed025's Note - hmmmm..

12 Oct 2026 12:20:46
WDW, do you think AI will build a team around Wirtz?
Genuine question, mate.

11 Oct 2026 22:21:08
Are we Bournemouth in disguise 🎶🎶
9th, but hey we've only lost once so it's good so far.
No identity no desire no heart as soon as the crowd stopped singing/booing the arse feel out of the team. Not sold on AI, and not sold on the 100mil sightings. I think we are, where we will be at the end off the season, mid table.

11 Oct 2026 22:47:53
What are barrel of laughs you are, Barry.

11 Oct 2026 22:58:18
"After the crowd stopped singing" so about 20 minutes then. The fire and brimstone welcome to hell didn't even make it to half time. But I suppose the toothless performance on the pitch certainly didn't help the atmosphere.

I'm also struggling to find anymore excuses for Wirtz.

12 Oct 2026 02:45:08
Agree with AAR91. Klopp galvanised the home crowd at home games and made Anfield a daunting place for away teams. It's no slight on Iraola but we haven't won at home for months. The crowd seems to have lost a bit of passion along with the players,

{Ed666's Note - That’s my only gripe with AI he’s a bit vanilla and from the outside in it looks as if he lacks charisma and dear I say it some fight. Then again Slot was no Klopp and he won a title. It’s early days yet and AI needs players that play his football before we can judge him.

12 Oct 2026 06:32:26
The atmosphere wasn't always great under Klopp. I think we may have selective memories. Up till the sending off, yesterday, the atmosphere was good.

12 Oct 2026 07:30:17
Agree Rome, after the sending off the atmosphere died and so did the fight in the team.

12 Oct 2026 07:55:49
The atmosphere is a reflection of the connection and sentiment towards the team. Part of that is Iraola definitely, a lot of it is the team though they just don't excite or look like creating or scoring enough goals.

With Iraola he was a high risk appointment on a short contract. Not to say he can't be good, he can be, but he's a young coach making his way. I would have preferred a big name with presence and charisma, but tbh if Richard Hughes chose one direction my instinct was and is to go with the opposite. That's more of a reflection on Hughes rather than a judgement on Iraola.

12 Oct 2026 10:13:17
There were plenty of dead hear a pin drop games under Jurgen too. Very selective memories.

11 Oct 2026 22:20:14
Liverpool are unbeaten against legitimate teams.

Now there's a thought lad's 😉.

12 Oct 2026 10:13:51
Jesus Christ.

11 Oct 2026 22:10:31
City didn't have nothing until the ten men

Key players out
And Wirtz probably won't make it long terms at lfc

More bumps along the way this season but their not far away from doing well.

11 Oct 2026 23:19:39
Wirtz has good energy and can press but what I really struggle with is his final ball. It always seems short or weak. like his through balls are fine but if he tries to cross or shoot on target, it's always really weak and doesn't beat the keeper or defenders on a low cross.

I just don't think he's suited to the PL at all. Put him in a top team in Spain or Germany and he'll be the best 10 in the cou try, but just not in England.

11 Oct 2026 20:58:11
I really want Wirtz to work out, but it was laid bare today.

Play Dom in the 10.

11 Oct 2026 21:13:05
the 50/50 challenge when he got tipped up by Elliot Anderson was a great indication to me that he still hasn't mentally switched over to what's required in the prem. No, I don't mean he needs to go throwing himself into every blood curdling challenge.

Just that his approach to the challenge versus Anderson's approach pretty much summed it all up. Good effort with a ballerina touch. We need to find that guy his inner mongrel because he ain't going to ballerina his way to fulfilling his price tag

The problem is, it just may not be there.

{Ed666's Note - yes but Wirtz isn’t a dog like Anderson he’s a different profile and can’t do the things Anderson does. If your games not about bite how do you display that quality?

11 Oct 2026 22:01:48
Yeah I agree with that molby, wirtz has to come out of the team at the mnute in prem league games, he desperately disappointing. Maybe European games suit him alright but in prem league he looks to getting worse as time goes on. Hopefully grav getting back in2 swing of things now, looked like his old self today before ridiculous red card he got.

Macca playing better this season. put szobo in the 10, not the most creative of 10s but there a goal in him and he brings good power+ legs to the team.

11 Oct 2026 21:35:35
Ed, that is one of my criticisms of Wirtz. he needs to control the things he can control. As much as Anderson is a diff. player and the comparison is severel false, what @Faith said is somrthing Flo has to realise and work on. As in, he aggressiveness and decisiveness in challenges and decision-making. That has to come from him and only him.

{Ed666's Note - I just don’t think he has the DNA to do that mate. If he was Bundesliga Wirtz the player we bought we wouldn’t be asking him to get stuck in and I think it’s unfair for us to do that now. He just needs to just recapture his bundesliga form and life will be good.

11 Oct 2026 22:21:13
Judging a fish by how they climb trees there with that one.

11 Oct 2026 22:49:18
My one criticism of Wirtz is he looks a complete waste of money.

11 Oct 2026 23:04:25
triple6 - I know mate. that's why I qualified what I said by saying that I don't mean he has to go flying into challenges. That particular challenge just said to me that his mind isn't preparing his body for the physical battle.

I've posted about this a few weeks ago in saying that this may just simply come with time as he ages - say into his mid-20s when his brain matures.

So he may need this full season and then the benefit of a proper 2027 off-season with no major international tournament where he can, hopefully, work on his body.

He has to find it mate. I believe we are seeing the bundesliga version of him now. But this version of Flo is barely managing to get by until he makes that mental and physical switch. I'm prepared to be patient (barely lol) but we all know how football works.

11 Oct 2026 23:37:45
also triple6 - "If he was Bundesliga Wirtz the player we bought we wouldn't be asking him to get stuck in and I think it's unfair for us to do that now"

I really don't think we can afford to carry a player in that case mate.

{Ed666's Note - I agree with not being able to carry him. I’d give him a few more games and then bench him if he’s not producing. But I don’t think he’s ever gonna be a player that makes crunching tackles.

12 Oct 2026 00:01:43
So we're not waiting for Wirtz's brain to mature?
That's fair enough. I don't know why some fans spending their hard earned are so impatient.

12 Oct 2026 00:24:48
@ed666 then he's many 2.0.

12 Oct 2026 06:40:40
Ive passed this opinion before, Wirtz can't play in the midfield three. He didn't for Leverkusen and doesn't for Germany. He would have to play in a advanced part of the midfield or in a half space and part of the front three.

I don't think our manager will want to do either, so unfortunately, it looks like we need to sell him in January and use the money for a player that suits us better,

12 Oct 2026 10:19:01
I don't expect him to be Ince or Gerrard but not jumping out of anything resembling a tackle would be nice. Seriously the excuses have to stop. He has been a dreadful signing and the more I look at him I just thinks he's wishing"please, please somebody get me out of here".

11 Oct 2026 20:46:58
{Ed's Note - MCR has posted a new article entitled, Effort Has to Be Liverpool's Bare Minimum

11 Oct 2026 19:59:20
Is Barcola fully fit because that was absolutely terrible performance today. He's proven that he's the fastest player in the prem but not once did he try and beat Nunes. Closeting down was nonexistent. Only a few games into his time at LFC and he looks like he doesn't want to fight for us.
Wirtz was bought to unlock defences but can't even do the basics.

11 Oct 2026 20:40:42
He was nearly as bad as Isak.

11 Oct 2026 21:36:55
Mark, Isak did not play. Unless you were being sarcastic.

11 Oct 2026 22:29:17
I believe that's the gist of the joke Oli.