Liverpool Banter Archive December 09 2016

09 Dec 2016 17:31:22
Phil thompson saying mignolet needs to come in for karius tomorrow. He has 1 poor game and he should be dropped? It would knock all confidence out of the lad to drop him now. He needs games. If we dropped mignolet for every bad game he had he would be dropped every other game.

09 Dec 2016 17:42:51
On top of that, what if migs has a shocker? You're pretty stuffed for options. Disappointing from thommo really.

09 Dec 2016 17:49:19
You could drop half the team based on his logic then, singling out Karius would be a huge mistake.
Bournemouth was a huge collective mistake that Klopp and the players need to take responsibilty for, learn from it and ensure it doesn't happen again, if the players repeat the same mistakes, that's when you drop them.

09 Dec 2016 18:17:51
Typical pundit regurgitating media talking points. And where do we go if Migs makes a mistake? We go to Manninger? Go back to Karius whose confidence is destroyed? And while all this chaos is going on, he wants us to win the title? Maybe he should sit down ad have a word with himself before spouting talking points in the media.

09 Dec 2016 18:17:51
Typical pundit regurgitating media talking points. And where do we go if Migs makes a mistake? We go to Manninger? Go back to Karius whose confidence is destroyed? And while all this chaos is going on, he wants us to win the title? Maybe he should sit down ad have a word with himself before spouting talking points in the media.

09 Dec 2016 19:08:44
Exactly, makes no sense in my opinion. Atleast the lad has come out and held his hands up metaphorically . Held them up more than mignolet actually does in a game anyhow.

09 Dec 2016 19:16:02
Karius has been ropey in most of his games but let's be honest he has to learn his trade and adapt to the difference in playing firstly in a Klopp team but also playing in the premier league.

Give him some time and he will be fine. Our exgoalkeepers Grobellar and Reina have both said he needs time to build his confidence and Klopp picked him so there good enough reasons for me.

Thommo is a gas man but he spouts some pony sometimes and as said above still expects us to win the league. There are too many people being too quick to jump on the bandwagon whom I'm sure will be proved wrong.

09 Dec 2016 20:12:00
Fortunately Klopp makes the decisions.

09 Dec 2016 21:56:50
Karius needs to opportunity to bounce back and show his character. The worst thing to do right now would be to drop him.

09 Dec 2016 22:25:13
When are you lot all going to get wise? Klopp is staking his reputation on a dud and the longer he stubbornly keeps him in, the further away from the title we will go. Unfortunately the lad has got no technique and will never make it, no matter how much you all talk him up and exaggerate Mignolet's deficiencies. The first time I saw him pre-season it was obvious that, at best, he was not ready and, at worst, will never be good enough. I'd go as far as to say that, if he hadn't got injured, we would now be further away from Chelsea than we are now.

Luckily, he has not been tested until the Bournemouth game and look what happened there. Apart from 2 goals that an amateur would have saved, he dived on a cross and scooped it out for a corner, it could easily have been another goal. Another shot straight at him that he stuck his hands up, just hit him more by luck than judgement and could also have easily gone in.

If Andy Carroll plays tomorrow he will frighten him to death. My words might seem harsh, and I actually hope that I am wrong, but I am only looking at the evidence of my own eyes.

09 Dec 2016 23:09:00
Karius needs time, he's had what? 8 games is it, Mingolet had 3 years and was still making silly mistakes.
By the way HR great word regurgitating!

09 Dec 2016 23:44:45
Keep Karius in obviously, we should back him but we need to understand and I hope Klopp does as well that Karius simply can't be undroppable otherwise we can suffer if he has regular bad performances. We should back him and support him, but we can't stick with him if it becomes a regular trend with him, which I'm sure it won't be. We need to create competition between him and migs so they better each other and one stands out in the end, that would be the ideal scenario.

10 Dec 2016 00:30:30
Kloppometor - that's nice isn't it. Seriously how can you say he will never make it? how can anybody say that? your speaking out your backside mate. I strongly suggest you need to get wise instead of pointing the finger at others for supporting a young, potentially good keeper for the team we support.

10 Dec 2016 00:58:10
Its farking pathetic. Mignolet exhibits 3 years of absolute mediocity and finally gets dropped. A younger 'keeper has merely 8 games, some of which were dodgy, and now these 'experts' want his head, and the job given back to a goalkeeper who had a gazillion chances and proved to be no better.

10 Dec 2016 01:06:54
Spot on Ron.

10 Dec 2016 01:16:06
No doubt Klopp will stick with Karius, and he did have a few clean sheets on the trot. But really, does anyone have even the remotest confidence when he is in goal? Migs gave us an error a game but overall I felt pretty good when he was in goal.

10 Dec 2016 02:05:33
Kloppometer if you think karius is a dud what did you think of de gea in his first season? He cost them countless points and now one of the best keepers in the world. I think klopp has watched a lot more of him than yourself so I'll stand by his decision and won't 'wise up' to your assessment.

10 Dec 2016 02:06:41
Ed001 has alluded, numerous times, to Sky feeding topics to their pundits in order to create controversy. There isn't a single Sly pundit who doesn't chat complete nonsense consistently.
That Thompson said something as idiotic as these latest comments is somewhat surprising, still.

10 Dec 2016 02:43:34
Its possible to say that Rodgers arrogance in blindly sticking with Migs. ultimately cost him his job.
The defence and Migs in particular massively underperformed and made mistake after mistake wbich caused nervous uncertainty that leeched through the entire team.

I know Karius is young and still bedding in but I hope Klopp hasn't the same blind arrogance if things don't improve.

He seems unswerving about Sahko where I feel since the club are paying top wages and with our defensive injuries and other problems that Sakho could help out.
At the very least it would put him in a proper shop window with January coming.

10 Dec 2016 03:29:25
Lol, I never felt good when Mignolet was in goal.

If we want Karius to develop then we just need to stop crying and bear with him as he cuts his teeth. He's not going to improve if we dump him to bench every time he makes a mistake.

09 Dec 2016 15:07:40
I think Klopp is just making excuses for Karius by saying that the team should defend better. He should have said that when a situation arises the keeper should deal with it. I know he's young but he should adapt and learn quickly.

09 Dec 2016 15:14:30
I think we need to move on and focus on westham now. Can't change what happened.

09 Dec 2016 16:01:48
Absolute bull. He's the manager and proved to be Damn good at it. Get behind him and Karius, wasn't just down to him was It? Besides why the hell even bring it up now? It's done, leave it alone.

09 Dec 2016 16:19:41
Defending Starts with the attack. Imo firmino was anonymous, and players Ran past hendo without a struggle. We lost the Game because the players lost Focus. It reminded me a lot of the Arsenal Game.

09 Dec 2016 16:27:26
Karius was well protected until last week, soon as he got exposed he conceded. Not to take away blame from the rest of them as they were all a joke.

09 Dec 2016 17:23:06
LH9, your post makes no sense. On one hand you say Klopp is trying to make excuses for Karius and on the other hand, say he`s still young BUT yet needs to deal with situations better. Make up your mind.

Tell me, where you as critical of Migs when he was costing us points and goals at will over three years he was no. 1? You do know that we had the joint third best defence in the PL before last Sunday, conceding only 5 in 7 games Karius has played in?

Our team was fine and would have walked away with 3 points without breaking a sweat until they decided to let their guard down, lost focus and stop playing hence, stopped protecting Karius. He needs to be protected while he finds his feet and adapts and after then (12 - 18 months) can you judge him. And your dig at JK for defending Karius (logically, I might add) is a disgrace.

09 Dec 2016 19:24:34
Let's be honest here, Karius was at fault for 2 of the goals but Bournemouth did get very lucky. They did well but we could play that last 15 minutes 100 times and only lose the game once. I mean how often will Cook score goals like that this season. How often will the other fella (who's names escapes me) come off the bench and make that kind of impact. Like the Burnley game when Vokes score a worldy. He's not been close to that since. Sometimes situations just happen and freak things go against you. Luckily for us it's the exception rather than the rule.

09 Dec 2016 19:42:40
Agreed, Pipsscreamer. It was a case of collective meltdown and Bournmouth catching a break here and there but it`s the goalie that gets the horns. Tough but understandable.

09 Dec 2016 20:17:22
Klopp is spot on. If the defenders has been in the right position and defended the balls into the box there's no issue. If the defenders had been awake they would have got to the ball before the attacker for the 4th goal.

Our defence was garbage last week, sadly Karius was not able to bale them out on 4 occasions.

09 Dec 2016 21:24:54
Like Klopp going to come out and blame his players he's not Jose.

10 Dec 2016 02:55:55
Klopp or the club has anything positive to gain from criticising Karius or any player in public.
He didn't do it last year with Migs.
I would say In private ther has been a few home truths discussed.
Thats how anyone improves.
by working on past mistakes and learning from them.

09 Dec 2016 10:38:25
I'm curious about something. And would like to get everyone's opinion on it (because it will clear up a lot of the confusion on our style of play) . Is pressing a defensive or offensive tactic?

{Ed001's Note - both.}

09 Dec 2016 11:02:40
Ed001, we agree. I would define defensive actions as all those that prevent the opposition from moving towards our goal with the ball. And offensive actions as all those designed to move the ball towards the opposition's goal. So for me pressing is a defensive action that becomes offensive if you get possession of the ball.

I simply brought this up because I read very often, on here and in the media, that all we do is press and our defense stinks. People are missing the point of the whole thing. And being unfair to Klopp, his system and the players. Pressing is already defending!

09 Dec 2016 11:05:13
id agree with ed001, its both, add that to having lots of possession when you have the ball, your reducing your opponents chances.

09 Dec 2016 11:15:26
Pressing means win the ball back and keep the ball with you which results in no danger to your own defense. The moment we dropped pressing against Bournemouth we looked vulnerable. We had the same fate as other teams when they pressed us.
Our team cannot hold on to a 1-0 score line for 90mts.

09 Dec 2016 11:20:55
I remember a quote, I think from Brendan, when he said you won't lose a game in which you have 75%+ of the possession.

One of the few things he said that I agree with, although Burnley is the exception that proves the rule!

09 Dec 2016 11:30:30
Sorry Zedicus that was just an excuse to pass the ball sideways for 90 minutes. There are many exceptions to that rule. Which i guess means it isn't a rule.

09 Dec 2016 12:08:36
Liverpool had more than 70% possession against UTD and 65% possession against Bournemouth. Possession means nothing if you do nothing with the ball other than just pass from one flank to other.
There are teams who would be happy to let you have 100% of possession.

09 Dec 2016 13:22:00
Zedd, Atletico regularly won games last year against the so called bigger teams with possession scores of around 15%.

It can be done. Use of the ball is more important.

09 Dec 2016 14:22:46
If you want to take possession stats as a mark of quality. Then use the percentage of possession in the oppnents half of the pitch.
Or better yet the opponents 18yard box.

At least then it would show attacking intent.
The only stat. that really counts is goals scored minus goals conceded.

09 Dec 2016 14:28:07
"If you are not an option, you are protection" - Jurgen Klopp. This describes Klopp`s counter pressing style to a T as if executed correctly. This is why we lead the league in shots conceded, chances conceded and least shots on target conceded as if you press the other team, dominate possession and create chances, they won`t be able to attack you. We have doe these very well this season overall and a result or two here and there does NOT change that fact.

Also, Barcelona lose games where they have majority possession all the time so that`s another nothing quote from BR, one of many.

Harry referring always to the Bournmouth or Utd game without looking at the whole body of work for the season so far, is a false argument and a dishonest defelction. We weren`t our best on the night of the Ud game and even then, we could still have won with the little we created.

The Bournmouth game was one we simply didn`t see out as the system worked for 75 mins because we hammered them at will. And trying to holding a 1-0 lead for 90mins is stupid and suicidal. Mou tried to do that vs Klopp last season at the Bridge and he got hammered 3-1 because we never stopped attacking them so your point makes no sense. Anyone can pick events in isolation to prove a short-sighted point but to get the full picture, all parameters have to be considered.

09 Dec 2016 15:15:04
The problem with you Hamilton is you underestimate the opposition, Their managers and their tactics and you are. firm believer no one is better than Klopp or what he put on the pitch.
United did nothing other than counter pressing against us and worked wonders in the first half. Closed down our players and marked them out so that the flow of passes were restricted. They had 50% ball in the first half. This is a tactics set by their manager.
Some managers wouldn't want to have possession and they would have players which is fit for some other system and tactics.

Possession doesn't always give you results. Possession without any end product gives you nothing other than Stats.

09 Dec 2016 17:46:36
Since you know me so well, Harry, do you know when my birthday is? Nonsense. I don`t underestimate the opposition neither do I believe anything Klopp does is right. in fact, he admitted that we were not at our best vs Utd and were sloppy in the first half and I agree with him there. Utd pressed us and we caught off guard and he should have adapted to that.

Some managers don`t want to have possession and that is fine with them provided they get results and managers like Simeone, Mou and Ranieri with LC did/ do and credit to them. Now the counter point to that is if you do that as with every system, it backfires as sometimes, you won`t be able to sustain not having the ball enough. Watch the Madrid derby this season where Simeone chose to let real have it. What happened? He got thumped 3-0 with a CR7 hatrick because Real just wore them down.

I love the way we play because we dictate the game and use the ball very well hence we lead the PL in every attacking category. That is consistent production that shows our system works offensively and even defensively because we had the joint third best defence in the PL before last Sunday so a major setback there that needs to be rectified. You can`t reject these facts hence, you have to recognize them. I don`t care what other teams or managers do not because I underestimate them. But because it is more important how we play and adapt to situations on the pitch. Do you live your life in function of somebody else`s? If you do, then you`ll be miserable every day.

I love the way we play and Klopp 9who used this ssytem to win Two league titles and two cups, thumping Bayern in the process) should continue provided he adapts to curve balls that come our way during matches.

Again, no system is perfect and changing it because you lost or drew one game, is senseless which is what you seem to always try to propose. We have lost 2 out of 17 games with this system, games we actually should have won so in fact, we could argue that Klopp is right 95% of the time.

09 Dec 2016 18:55:25
The point is you don't give credit at all. Again brilliant write up.

09 Dec 2016 19:32:14
It frustrates me when people say possession means nothing. It means everything, you have to have the ball to do anything with it and whilst you have it the opposition can't score. Give me a team with possession any day of the week at least it gives you a chance.

09 Dec 2016 19:45:04
Harry, did you miss the part where I gave credit to Mou, Ranieri and Simeone for getting results by playing the way you want us to play in my last comment or did you conveniently miss that?

09 Dec 2016 20:20:10
Goals win games, not passes or possession.

09 Dec 2016 20:25:03
Spot on Pippscreamer. Possession of the ball is paramount to controlling the game provided you use it efficiently to dominate the game and hammer your opponent on the scoreboard, two categories we lead the PL in so until proof of the contrary, stick with what is working (losing two in 17 games doesn`t change this fact) instead throwing the baby out with the bath water after the odd draw or loss, as harry suggests.

09 Dec 2016 20:56:44
PIp

Brendan Rodgers at Swansea and post Suarez sale.
The possession football = 7th place finish and unlimited money wasted!

10 Dec 2016 03:08:22
Correct and then bought benteke as a target man for his so called possession football.
I wouldn't mind so much but all the crap he spouted about Kennys team and in particularly Andy Carrol not fitting into his death by passing modern football.
At least Kenny won a cup and got to a final in his first year.
Wbich no Liverpool manager had done fora while and not since.

08 Dec 2016 23:54:40
Eds reds if we sell sakho and i belive lovren isn't good enough- who, within reason, would you all want to partner matip? Van dijk i think would be good, sule, tah from germany?

09 Dec 2016 06:30:34
We are struggling to offload Sakho atm due his wages and preferences. The club will take a massive cut on him. There has been no plans on shifting Lovren in January. We made a mistake in not buying one in the summer and klavan shouldn't have bought at all.

09 Dec 2016 11:22:11
Ed002, who did you say was helping Sakho with his hair? I forget.

{Ed002's Note - It is the other way round, Kirikou helps the others.}

10 Dec 2016 03:09:49
Stevie Wonder?

09 Dec 2016 18:09:08
Thanks Ed002. I like to get the important facts right when considering our players 😀.

11 Dec 2016 04:02:43
Sule and Tah would both be excellent choices - they wouldn't come cheap but they'd definitely improve the defence. I know a lot is said about Van Dijk but he is unconvincing and, in my opinion, not as good as the other 2 mentioned.