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02 Jan 2017 22:47:15
Happy New Year to all Ed`s and Reds alike and best wishes!

The Sunderland game was a roller-coaster and indeed, was not the result we all wanted and there are positives to take away from the game and I would like to focus on one thing for a second.

First off, I`m never one to comment on referees and their decisions cos their jobs are hard and having played the game at a decent level, I excuse a lot of dumb stuff that they get wrong. However, not today

Can I just say how Anthony Taylor and his assistants were a right shambles in that game? Having played a very intense and energy-sapping game vs City and with only 44 hours to prepare (or lack thereof), I think our boys played outstanding football vs a team (tho, in the same situation BUT had the home crowd to push them all game) that set up to frustrate us. We created a hat load of chances, 15 shots on target, dominated possession, gave up only 3 shots on target (all which Migs comfortably saved) and should definitely have won. Not saying Taylor was the reason we drew BUT he definitely contribute his own two pence.

On the first goal, Wiji and Klavan hesitate and Ndong gets the ball. He then, dives into the gap btw both players, drawing the contact from Klavan by diving into his leg (as if contact is no longer allowed in the box anymore) and Taylor gets mugged and blows for a penalty.

Then on the near goal by Defoe and then Borini. Ndong is offside by two yards on the through ball and yet goes for the ball. The flag should be raised right there as he`s interfering with play but it does not. Defoe tells him to stop running and takes over and were it not of for the quick thinking of Migs, we`re 2-1 down right there due to two ref howlers.

On can`s penalty, Taylor can`t give it cos a) he wasn`t sure or b) he is trying to do a make up call cos he prolly knew he messed up on the first penalty warded.

Then the worst, the second equalizer. He gives a FK for the "foul" on Defoe where as there was NO foul. Defoe turns away from Lucas` challenge, then turns into Can who then steps in front and takes over possession. Defoe dives and then complains and the free kick is awarded and you know the rest. Taylor gets mugged again and so do we. Whereas a few minutes before that, Studge gets destroyed from behind and the ref and assistant don`t do a thing? See what I mean.

My point is that PL games are already extremely difficult to win especially under the circumstances we were under BUT when the ref starts meddling into things in favor of one team (just like the hapless Mike Dean did in the WH-Utd game) the job becomes three times more difficult and I can`t blame Klopp for being severely irritated in the post match presser cos he prolly didn`t want to slate the ref in public as that`s not his style. Now were that to be Mou or Pep or even Moyes, he (especially Mou) would have called out the ref by name and given him a right verbal thrashing. Let me know what your thoughts are, guys.

Hamilton Red

1.) 03 Jan 2017 00:50:02
I see what you're getting at Hamilton but too often on here the focus seems to be on what happened leading up to a pivitol incident rather than the incident itself. A number of times Migs and Karius have let in easy goals and then been absolved of blame because their defenders allowed a shot at the keeper. Sometimes the blame can be shared around but with Sunderlands second goal it was quite simply Manes fault. The free kick was debatable (although i think the ref was correct) but Migs looked like he had it covered anyway. What was Mane doing? It was half a meter from his body so he wasnt protecting himself.
I agree the ref had a pretty average game but i disagree that he was tesponsible for the end result.

2.) 03 Jan 2017 00:55:36
I'm sorry but don't really agree with this view - the first was a clear penalty and so was the second. Even the free kick given was at least a 50/ 50 foul by Lucas. Can handball was 50/ 50 and we were lucky it went our way.

The real problem was we were sloppy in possession and not as sharp as we should have been playing the ball from the back, and we missed the zip through midfield we normally have. We also missed the mobility Hendo normally provides ahead of the defense with most of the poorer tackles coming in because we were a yard off the pace and defenders isolated 1-1. Late tackles and fouls like those are symptomatic of the opposition being a yard ahead and having too much time and space on the ball themselves.

I also noted the forwards also struggled to link up (as they did vs. City, with players often looking a bit isolated and then giving away possession with a loose pass or poor first touch (particularly Firmino) .

It's easy to say in hindsight but we missed Hendo badly and the setup wasn't quite right given the tired legs. We needed at least Stewart at base of midfield and we should have played Origi upfront and given Firmino or even Mane a rest IMO.

3.) 03 Jan 2017 01:03:35
Also, can't see how the ref could give anything but a pen for Klavan sticking out a leg.

4.) 03 Jan 2017 01:59:25
I respect your opinions. Just to clarify. I never said that the ref`s decisions cost us the game as that is too easy a conclusion to make. Also, I never absorbed Mane of any blame for the penalty as that was a stupid thing to do.

What I was saying was that under the circumstances, we played quite well, created chances, showed more than decent movement (more than I thought we would) and could easily have scored three goals. Anyone who was thinking that there would be no drop off in energy levels, link up play and overall output after a tough energy-sapping game vs City with 44 hours of preparation (or lackthereof), must have been been deluding themselves. I totally expected it so of course, there would be some sloppiness, ragged defending, patches of disjointed play and passes going astray.

What I did not expect is that a ref would make as many howlers as I saw, all in one game. I can understand he didn`t see something or got no help from his assistant on one incident. What I can`t accept is an accumulation of howlers cos at that point, the players and manager start getting frustrated hence, the reaction we got from Klopp in his post game comments. The FK that led to the penalty incident, was a shambles and even ex players on TV, said so cos last I checked football is a contact sport so no FK, no pen if you follow logic. Also, Ndong literally launched himself into the gap btw Klavan and Wiji so of course, there will be contact and again, footie is a contact sport and Neil McCan on commentary said the same thing.

My point is that tho, we missed Hendo and Can was average in that position and there was an expected performance drop-off from Sat, we still did more than enough to win the game under the very difficult circumstances and cos we didn`t win, should not change that fact.

5.) 03 Jan 2017 02:28:56
I see your points but reality is I don't think we played well and our touch has been slipping even before today. If we weren't prepared to make any real changes to the side which hasn't exactly been playing as slickly as we're capable of, against a bottom team in a mess, and after just 48hrs against a sapping game vs. city then we either have an extremely poor bench or Klopp missed a trick.

Easy in hindsight but I think we should have played Stewart (or Lucas) to rest Can, and played Origi and Sturridge as a pair upfront in place of Firmino.

6.) 03 Jan 2017 02:29:57

Please stop justifying our short comings. Same thing happened in the chat page.

Fact is the players were not 100% sharp having played man city game and hendos absence was felt a lot.

Can was very nervous and it spilled over to others.

Though Klavan was at fault for the first penality, it was Wijnaldum who gave the opp player a free run forcing Klavan to make that clumsy work.

We were very lucky to not have gone 2-1 down when referee ignored a clear hand ball from Can.

Klopp also could have shown the same grace that he does during interviews where he is so honest instead was clapping sarcastically when Sturridge was sitting and Sunderland did not stop play. Would we do that if we were chasing the game?

Though Sturridge is a top top striker he his not helping himself with his attitude.

We were 2nd best with so many misplaced stuff and Klopp rightly took Wijnaldum out.

It is not getting the points against smaller teams that will end up costing us.

7.) 03 Jan 2017 06:07:49
lol Hamilton so all blame goes to the referees now. You are one of a kind mate.

8.) 03 Jan 2017 10:24:00
Whilst we lost the game because of our own stupid decisions in the box I do agree with this view as a whole. Yesterday I had the luxury of watching 3 games (Boro-Leicester, ours and United-WH) . All three games were littered with horrendous decision making by refs - mostly focusing on the decisions not made (and I think Hamilton gave some good examples from our games with the offside that wasn't given and the demolition job on Sturridge, but the United second goal was the biggest one) or the consistency of punishments (including reds for very little and yellows for criminal offenses) . I have been told that the issue was even greater in lower leagues and that in League 2, two games saw the ref 'subbed' at half time for injuries.

It was concerningly poor yesterday and to me it does bring about to me another question of the controversial Christmas schedule - it's all well and good to discuss whether the players are fit enough for them, but can the refs keep up?

9.) 03 Jan 2017 12:24:06
Mostly agree, some dodgy refereeing yesterday. But the real robbery is when Sturridge is kicked to pieces. Sad to see a professional ref miss that one.

10.) 03 Jan 2017 15:24:41
THank you Hijkle, and Andy for at least giving thought ful responses to this thread. Zimbo, I agree to disagree with you on the performance issue and that is fine. As for hindsight, if you don`t believe it matters so why mention it? It doesn`t matter what Klopp did per his selection cos provided we didn`t win, people (in hindsight) would criticize and try to rewrite history. Why? Cos it doesn`t matter and had we won, would Klopp had still missed a trick or would the bench had been stronger? Notice I never did any of that hindsight stuff for these basic reason.

Harry, it seems you have not read any of my initial comments I posted. I propose you read the first two paragraphs of each comment regarding how ref decisions as not being THE main factor we didn`t win and then get back to me. And you are right, I am one of a kind.



22 Dec 2016 18:56:49
Season`s Greetings, Fellow Ed`s and reds!

I would like to start a discussion about something that has been bothering me regarding how Jurgen Klopp is being regarded as a tactician by the media.

He is by no means perfect and neither is his system (s) and he will make his mistakes and that is fine by me provided he is doing a fine job which we all can agree that he`s doing. However, I have a problem with the way other managers and those in the media view him as a tactician.

I was watching a clip on youtube about him and it was mentioned that a "high level manager" doesn`t think that he`s a "tactically sophisticated" manager and that he only relies on his charisma and motivational skills to get results. Can I just say that that is utter nonsense and an insult to the things he has achieved as a manager. I don`t care how good of a motivator or public speaker you are, if you can`t coach, manage players, have great man management skills, know your tactics in and out, all the things Klopp possesses, then you will NEVER succeed like he has as a manager. Has he lost games, finals or leagues? Sure. But you can only lose if you put yourself in the position to win.

There is also this idea that both Pep and Mou are better than him tactically. To me judging by his head to head record with them, that is patently false. Vs Mou, Klopp has 3 wins, 2 draw and 1 loss in 6 games. Vs Pep, he has 4 wins and 4 losses. In fact, Klopp is the only manager to have inflicted more losses on Pep and Mou than any other manager, period. It took Mou SEVENTEEN games to beat Pep 3 times while Klopp did it in 8. So how is he inferior to both "Super managers" tactically if he has the best record against them? Or are tactics no longer involved when he wins. This is what I think is an unfair judgement on Klopp`s tactical ability, IMO.

Look at the way we play, fore example. People just think we press teams and move the ball around and score goals, no sweat. No tactical structure nor organization involved obviously, right? WRONG! That is bullocks. If you read articles of how the players train and the attention to detail involved in the movement of our players, then believe me, the man is a class act, tactically. Check the BVB game as well. When we were down 3-1, Klopp switched from a 4-2-3-1 to a 4-4-2 diamond by subbing off Can and Firmino and putting on Allen and Studge. This is where the game was won tactically and Tuchel (his pupil) got schooled as he had no way to responding to that tactical change and the onslaught we unleashed upon them. After the game, I can`t remember if any media outlet or pundit ever referring to my observation. All I heard was Klopp`s ability to motivate and channel his energy onto the Anfield crowd and to his players. Nonsense! Had Mou or Pep done this, we would have never heard the last of it. Here lies my anger for not recognizing his tactical astuteness.

I think Klopp is a brilliant manager and a very good tactician and the pundits or the media either can`t see it or simply think he is not great tactically as they think anyone can do and achieve what he has by just getting a group of players to run around like headless chickens YET at the same time, being very intelligent in their way of playing which has gotten him 2 BL titles and a CL runner up, and brought us two finals in his first 8 months and second in the league. Master motivator, My Foot! Please, join in the conversation, lads.

Hamilton Red

{Ed025's Note - i enjoyed that hamilton, good post mate which is easy for me to say as im a massive klopp fan..

1.) 22 Dec 2016 19:24:08
Glad you approve, Ed. it was just something that I needed to put out there for discussion as I think he`s being unfairly treated by the pathetic English media.

{Ed025's Note - i always give credit where its due hamilton..

2.) 22 Dec 2016 20:47:57
Totally agree Hamilton mate and yes it had to be said.

3.) 22 Dec 2016 21:17:55
Well put, don't forgetthe fact that he never had the funds that were available to pep and jose.

4.) 22 Dec 2016 23:08:48
Don't think we need to bring money into it. Leicester anyone? I love Klopp.

5.) 22 Dec 2016 23:13:51
Great post Hamilton.

6.) 22 Dec 2016 23:45:02
Imagine what he could do at Everton Ed025? He's such a people person, and you are, of course, the People's Club :)

{Ed025's Note - im a massive fan burkey and have been even when he was at dortmund, but ronnie is not a bad runner up mate and i predict great things fo everton over the next couple of seasons, it would be nice if we could get back to the times when we were the best 2 clubs in the land and merseyside ruled....and i hope you wont be disappointed with second.. :)

7.) 23 Dec 2016 00:42:24
I hope all other managers think they can out think him tactically as they might take their eye off the ball. For me he's taken a group of players and looked at the best way to play tactically with the players he has and has worked wonders. Yes we will have the odd blip but who doesn't?

8.) 23 Dec 2016 01:19:07
Agree Hamilton, and just to add, he quickly figured out when he arrived that his greatest assets where Couts, Firmino, Llalana and Hendo (most of which had been underperforming so it's not as obvious as it looks now! ) and built the team around their high intensity, clever movement and interplay. He then addressed the lack of pace with Mane, the LB position by converting Milner, and the CB position with Matip, all of which have been outstanding successes. Even Widjnaldum has been solid and added a mobility and bite to midfield we lacked in either Can or Allen. Only downsides really have been Karius and Grujic but I'm sure in time they will come good (and Migs at least has benefitted from the competition it seems) .

The side now has a very clear identity and style of play with everyone schooled on their part. That is not something that happens with just enthusiasm. I'm sure a big part of this is also Buvac/ Krawietz/ Pep and co. but then again he put that team together himself too.

9.) 23 Dec 2016 00:13:37
Lol Ed. I still remember my first wembley final singing "Merseyside, Merseyside, Merseyside" :)

{Ed025's Note - thats right burkey, heady days indeed mate..

10.) 23 Dec 2016 08:36:43
The same Allen later became " Not good enough" for Hamilton. Tuchel lost the plot when he subbed kagawa who was pretty much running riot at us. A win over Dortmund was our destiny. I couldn't find any tactical genius in that game. To concede 3 goals at home.
Keeping aside Tactical and footballing knowlege, Klopp will be remembered and adored as a People's manager.

How did he lost the final Hamilton?

11.) 23 Dec 2016 09:37:09
For me I think Klopp's charisma masks his tactical acumen. The media are so enamoured by his charm that they don't actually look any further. This is great for the teams he manages as the opposition see them as the team that runs a lot and nothing more.
Just look at the derby for an example of his tactical nuance. He swapped Origi and Firmino, it looks a small change on paper but changed the game. Firmino who was anonymous out wide started dropping deep overloading midfield and getting on the ball to dictate our attacking play. Origi offered pace down the flank and stopped Coleman charging forward as much as he had because we now had a wide out ball threat.
Or maybe this wasn't Klopp's tactical thinking he just got lucky.

12.) 23 Dec 2016 09:51:32
Harry you just go against the grain for the sake of it and spout rubbish. You only see games on the surface, I don't really think your tactically aware what's happening mate.

13.) 23 Dec 2016 09:55:10
Tuchel was never Klopp's pupil.

14.) 23 Dec 2016 10:11:51
You have to let things like this go over your head mate. If he managed united the perception/ critique would be the complete opposite, the media, ex playing so called experts etc have always been anti liverpool and pro united so it's best to ignore these clowns. We know what we know about our manager and me personally I don't need any confirmation of his abilities from the pro united media.

15.) 23 Dec 2016 11:33:22
In reality it's just backlash Hamilton. Lots of media outlets love to gush about how perfect and great and amazing he is. So some outlets will provide everyone who just loves to hate an outlet by going on about how there is nothing to him. It's just swings and roundabouts, don't let it get to you.

16.) 23 Dec 2016 15:24:46
Thanks for the response lads. I just felt that we needed to be aware of the tendencies of the football mainstream as to why he`s being regarded as not good enough tactically.

As for Harry, you make a valid point however, I already addressed his mistakes in the first paragraph of my post so you are welcome to read it again.

I will say that NOTHING is anyone`s destiny in football. Turkish coach Fatih Terim said after their "miraculous" win vs the Czechs in the final group game of Euro 2008 that, "There are no miracles in football. There are only three results: a win, a draw or a loss. That`s it". I totally believe that.

It was never our destiny to beat Dortmund had we not worked hard a managers (tactics), fans (who sang their lungs out" or players who played their hearts out despite it looking that way. For faith without works is dead, someone said. Same for Istanbul. Of course you need a bit of luck BUT as Bjorn Borg said, "I find that the harder I work, the luckier I get". Luck can be defined as "a moment where (great) preparation meets opportunity". We had our opportunities to beat BVB and Milan and we took them because we never gave up and kept fighting.

As for Seville, Klopp messed up and he himself admitted it, so did the players who didn`t take full advantage of their opportunity to win that game as it was more than winnable, so there is your answer.



25 Nov 2016 18:26:11
Happy Thanksgiving to my fellow reds and Eds alike.

I would like to state my opinion about the whole Daniel Sturridge situation at LFC at the moment.
Firstly, there is no doubt that Danny is a gifted footballer and simply the most natural finisher in England. Even Harry Kane is not in his league. he was brilliant for us in 13/ 14 in a front 4 of him, Suarez, Sterling and Couts. That front 4 was the best in the PL by far and even till today bar our own current front 3, there`s no team that boasts that lethal quartet. Unfortunately, that was almost 3 years ago. That team played a different way and those four created so much space for each other that defences were never at ease for 90 minutes and Studge flourished, especially with a demon like Suarez who did the work of two strikers harrying and hounding defenders into submission.

Now, we have a new manager who demands not just goals and assists from his CF. He demands relentless high pressing, high work rate and tenacity in his play, overall. The CF needs to be not just a provider of goals as well as getting on the end of chances created by his fellow forward men and midfielders. He needs to do a lot more than that. It is clear for all to see that Studge (due to injuries and loss of pace) can simply not cope with what Klopp demands of his CF while clearly, Firmino can and is doing the business. Studge can`t cope because he IMO, lacks the physical and tactical tools to play that way. He also lacks the selfless attitude to effectively work for the team and do the hard graft that will eventually lead to the team`s success. To Klopp, goals are not everything and if you watch Lewandowski play, he is just like Firmino in his attitude, work rate and tenacity in pressing and harrying as Bayern play the same pressing game.

The reason I posted this is because I am seeing on some places on the web and in the media where they are insinuating that Studge should just start over Firmino because well, he used to be good about 3 years ago and not because Firmino is underperforming and well the English media think he should. That to me, is ridiculous.

To whom it may concern, I and definitely Klopp, doesn`t care who Studge used to be. We should care about who he is now and right now, he simply CANNOT start over Firmino because he simply does not offer what Bobbie does nor does he have the ability to do what Klopp asks of him, all of which Firmino can do. When the ball gets to Firmino, he keeps it moving in rhythm. When it gets to Studge, it stops at Studge. And there lies some of his issues. Firmino seems to not care if he does or doesn`t get on the end of through balls to score. Sturridge always wants to get on the end of things.

We lead the PL in every attacking category, all accomplished without Studge on the score sheet. And before people start highlighting the Leicester game where he was actually good, I can also highlight the Swansea and Utd game where he was poor so I`m looking at the big picture here. All in all, Studge to me, is either not willing or simply cannot for diverse reasons, play the CF position the way Klopp wants it to be played and putting Firmino on the left just to accommodate is not the answer either. Therefore, the line should be drawn. Either he keeps his head down, work hard or he gets sold in the summer and we move on otherwise, this is going to be a distraction ontinuously. Please, feel free to contribute, fellow posters.

Hamilton Red

1.) 25 Nov 2016 19:08:50
While i agree overall and wouldn't relace Firmino with Sturridge, he is capable of doing a job in Mane's absence and is far from horrible.

2.) 25 Nov 2016 19:10:59
I just hope that if he has to make a move then it's in the summer, and not this coming January, as per some of the rumours floating around. I'd be happy if he stayed beyond the summer, but I highly doubt he would ever accept coming off the bench.

3.) 25 Nov 2016 19:23:56
I agree with Andy in that I agree overall, but there has to be room for him on the wing, and Bobby ain't superman - he will be injured at some point. The shame is that it is so difficult to shoehorn Studge into the team if everyone is fit. Also, what a player to come off the bench (I do think Klopp should have brought him on a bit earlier at Southampton) . He is pure quality and probably deserves more minutes on the pitch for a player of his level, and because of that I wouldn't begrudge him a move away - preferably to Europe so he doesn't come back and score too many against us!

4.) 25 Nov 2016 19:44:07
There will come a time when Firmino will simply stop scoring for not matter how much he does on and off the ball. You all will regret the sale of Sturridge.

Sturridge possess certain qualities only matched by elite strikers like Aguero, Dybala etc none would be moving to us.

5.) 25 Nov 2016 20:03:50
Daniel Sturridge is a better a striker than Firmino would ever be. Sell him and regret it later on!

6.) 25 Nov 2016 20:37:55
Thanks for the posts lads. I agree that he should be kept and not team in the premier league can rely on the best finisher in England the way we can rely on Studge off the bench but since he`s not that good off the wing, coming off the bench will have to be his role for now if he cannot dislodge any of the front three which right now, picks itself. I also agree that he may have to leave for the sake of his career in the summer.

However, I respectfully disagree with saying he will be regretted if he got sold. I don`t like these types of blanket statements that have no basis in fact, only in projection. And projections and opinions are not facts nor reflect reality. the fact is that no one knows how we will fair if Studge leaves nor how we will do if Bobbie gets injured as he was injured vs Chelsea and we beat them at the Bridge w/ o breaking a sweat, really.

Also Harry, we already know how we are doing when he`s not playing nor in the team and the facts, attacking stats and league table speak for themselves. And even if he leaves, we already have Origi who has proven himself that he belongs to the first team squad and who has a higher upside for improvement than Studge, as well as whoever Klopp brings in to replace Studge and it may not be like for like. Keep the posts coming lads, loving the participation.

7.) 25 Nov 2016 21:48:31
You are delude by the current flow of the water Hamilton. We are going well the way we went well 3 years ago and we collapsed. There is a weakness in our team if you look closely. Firmino is one of my fav player. He has the best touch in the league. HE IS NO STRIKER AND HAS MISSED SOME SITTERS INCLUDING AN OPEN NET AGAINST SOUTHAMPTON Largely because he isn't a natural finisher.

Would you bench Robbie Fowler for Firmino?

I don't know what is the obsession on running players.

{Ed001's Note - Robbie Fowler was fond of chasing around and pressuring defenders as well, something he learnt off the master sniffer himself, the ultimate natural finisher, Ian Rush. I just wonder what your blind obsession is with being unable to see just how good Firmino is. You always have this bizarre fondness for players not in our team, while always denigrating those that are. Perhaps you should just leave it, as you are clearly wrong on this matter, as you only have to look how much better our performances and results are with Bobby up front rather than Studger to know how stupid this is getting to keep on about it.}

8.) 25 Nov 2016 22:02:11
I was following this until you said "even Harry kane". Kane is decent but he has a team that makes him look much better than he is. He is pretty overrated IMO. I know I wouldn't be upset if he went to United or someone like that. As for sturridge; I think the injuries have just taken too much from him. He's not the sturridge of 2012, though to his credit, has stayed fit. I hope he gets back that killer instinct and lethal sharpness/ quickness he did have. But I'm not seeing it.

9.) 25 Nov 2016 22:07:44
Selling Sturridge would be a huge mistake for whatever reason Ed01. He is the best finisher I have seen at the coub. It's no obsession it's just my view.

{Ed001's Note - selling him would be, as would moving Firmino aside for him right now. Sturridge has to earn his place with his performances, which he is simply not doing.}

10.) 25 Nov 2016 22:19:27
I think Sturridge is history at LFC come summer, I'll probably get slammed for my post but I have to give my honest opinion.

He's nothing on what he used to be, I have waited and waited for him to return to his best and it's simply not happened, he shows his talent from time to time but it's not enough.

WHEN we're in the champions league we need a top quality striker who can put them away, Sturridge is in my opinion not the man that can be relied on game in game out. Origi however I believe will be - yes he's not quite at that stage just yet but will be under Klopp, everytime I watch the lad he really tries to impress and puts in 100% this will benefit him in the longrun and I see him been a top top player for us.

Ever since his Sturridge's injuries he's not been the same, he never recovered well and is not the best suited to Klopps tactics. He's injury prone and seems to play good when he wants to.

It sounds like I'm slamming him but I'm not, I would really like to see him stay with us for years and be at his best like he was a few years ago but I can't see that happening.

Harry you say Sturridge is better then Firmino? I disagree, to me he's far off that quality, Firmino is something else, how can you say he will stop scoring at some point, how could you possibly know that? He is the complete package imo.

I wouldn't be happy to see Sturridge leave, and I may be proved wrong, who knows next thing we know he could start banging them in left right and center I just can't see it happening, I think his days are coming to an end at LFC. I hope more then anyone I'm wrong.

Having said all of this I will support him, as I will support any Liverpool player.

Good post as always Hamilton.

I'm not American but Happy thanksgiving to you mate enjoy.

11.) 25 Nov 2016 22:22:25
You just can't expect someone to do a miracle in 12 mts. Even though he did set up one golden chance against Sputhamton. He is trying hard to work and chase around.
If you don't play him he is never going to learn the way.

If he isn't good enough how would he replace Mane in January?

{Ed001's Note - who said he will?}

12.) 25 Nov 2016 22:22:56
Harry, the best finisher you have seen at the club? do you need me to make a list of better finishers we have / have had?

13.) 25 Nov 2016 22:32:01
Liverpool FC

His stats are better than some of the Anfield legends. Check the goals scored to number of games / mts played. He is in top 3.

I have seen a large portion of people claiming we have Sturridge to fill in Mane's absence.

14.) 25 Nov 2016 22:33:19
He is going to score a hat trick tomorrow and all above would be singing his name by night.

15.) 25 Nov 2016 22:55:45
I hope your right Harry.

16.) 26 Nov 2016 00:50:47
Happy thanksgiving to you as well, LFC16 and your contribution is greatly appreciated. Harry, I will not even respond to your pathetic reply because I think the Ed did a much better job responding to you than I would have. Here you are again, posting your opinion and projecting it as facts. If you can't see how good Firmino is then I can't help you because to do that, you would have to pay me. Studge's stats mean nothin to me because in football, you're only as good as your last game. Just face it buddy, Studge is finished and Klopp will not shift his style which is working, to accommodate Studge. Either he bucks up or he leaves even tho, I like him as a player. As for him scoring a hatrick tmrw, I hope he does as that would mean that he's improving.

17.) 26 Nov 2016 07:32:42
LOL Pathetic reply Hamilton only because I disagree with your prejudice view?
An year ago you were running behind Sturridge on his sublime quality. Now you don't rate him because there is someone performing better than him atm?

For me this is a Pathetic view.

What about Lovren then? He has one crucial mistake every game. I have never heard you to bench him.



21 Nov 2016 19:24:54
Just my own two cents on this whole LFC`s perceived defensive and this fixation on lack of clean sheets. I have done some research and IMO, this is nothing but a myth, a false narrative that many other fans, helped by "pundits" in the media, as a stick to beat us and Klopp with because they may not be able to stand the progress we are making under him.

Here`s why, Currently, LFC leads the PL in every attacking category needed to win games in the PL. We lead the PL in goals scored, chances created, shots, shots on target, possession, possession in the opponents half and Hendo leads the PL in passes completed in the opponents half.

In fact, LFC is second in chances created among all 5 top European leagues. Are you kidding me? Now defensively, we lead the PL in chances conceded, shots conceded, and shots on target conceded. We have also improved massively at defending set pieces by either not conceding them a lot and dealing with them when they do come. Karius barely has anything to do globally when he plays.

This is a testament to Klopp and the players ability to defend while attacking all while being in a very fluid expansive system that requires all out attacking football. You can`t attack me if you`re too busy trying to stop me. We don`t need to outscore you because you won`t even get the chance to create a scoring opportunity.

That's why even Mou and Puel had to park two buses and even then, we could and should have won those games respectively. Not team boasts these exceptional attacking and defensive statistics.

The goals we have conceded are mainly due to individual errors or a slip while we are either in the lead or the game is dead and buried and even then bar Spurs, we have NEVER given up three points from a winning position, something we led the PL in with 19 points dropped from winning positions.

Now to the clean sheet nonsense. L`OM leads the French League in goals conceded at home (1) and clean sheets (6 at home and 7 overall) . Where are they in the table? 11th and watching them play is like watching paint dry.

Mingo had double digit clean sheets in the 14/ 15 season and where did we finish? A pathetic 6th position with a 5-1 loss to Stoke to boot. Utd have a worse attack than we do and have conceded as much as we have (14) yet they are 8 points back.

Which team you you rather be? Liverpool or Utd under Mou, L`OM, LFC under BR or LFC under under Klopp? Exactly. The way we play allows us to be on the front foot and defend at the same time and even tho we have conceded 14 goals in 12 games, City and Arsenal have conceded only 2 or 3 less while well ahead them in goals scored.

IMO, the jealous haters at other clubs and certain members of media prolly never thought we would do as well as we have and since they have next to nothing to criticize us for really, they resort to things like "Can they sustain this type of play till May" or "They need more clean sheets" which to me are nothing but smokescreens because no one knows what will happen before May.

Not saying I don`t like clean sheets as they are welcome and we need to always improve on both sides of the ball BUT I`ll take a 2-1 win over a 0-0 any day. Pls, feel free to jump into the discussion.

Hamilton Red

1.) 21 Nov 2016 19:56:32
Chelsea has conceded far less than us. Explain How?
All these stats doesn't show exact picture mate. We are brilliant going forward but not so good defensively.

2.) 21 Nov 2016 20:00:27
Great post and if you're statistics are correct you make a 'we will win the league' optimist in me 😉
We're not perfect yet but we're scaring the living bejesus out of our rivals and you're right, they're grasping to the fact our defence is weak and certainly hoping it gets worse.
Your stats prove what we can all see. We're improving greatly in that area and if we can cut out the individual errors we'll be even better (holy crap that makes me happy! )

3.) 21 Nov 2016 20:23:37
We want sides to think we have some weakness at the back so they at least have a go then bam we hit them!

Whatever it takes I think Klopp will find the way to go and whilst we will have set backs and a frustrating draw now and again I reckon we are all in for one mighty fine season

We will just need to be ready to ramp it up again when we have Champions League games next season and I have a feeling that we are already getting our ducks in a row for two or three tasty incoming to make our squad ultra competitive and if 2 or 3 of the youngsters come through as well then we are going to be a brilliant side that just gets better.

We do of course need our share of luck on keeping injuries to a minimum but other than that I reckon we have bought a ticket in the raffle and we have a big chance to pick up some silverware this season.

4.) 21 Nov 2016 20:42:09
Harry, your response clearly shows you have difficulty reading and understanding other people`s posts. The goal of the post was to show how massively we have improved defensively which is mainly due to the attacking style we play. I offered nuances to debunk the pathetic "Clean Sheet" myth with stats to bear this out and the stas are clear especially with the fact that I`m not a stats guy but even I couldn`t ignore them when I saw them. Nowhere did I ever mentioned winning the title with this system, never said we were better than the teams I mentioned in the post including Chelsea, neither did I mention that we should not strive for clean sheets. But since you always feel the need to compare us with other teams as if anyone should care what they are doing bar yourself, I will indulge you. Chelsea changed their system to a 3-4-3 defensive system because they were leaking goals for fun. This is a system that Conte played and coached in as he`s a coach who starts his teams holding a defensive shape. Packing players in to crowd the midfield and defense may be one good way of defending BUT not the best way as in a 3-4-3 when under pressure, you can leave gaps that can be taken advantage of. We don`t play that way as I wouldn`t want us to play that way as they only have 3 attacking players while we have the front three and Lallana, Wiji and now Can to help with goals. There`s a reason we are beating them in goals scored and their good is only two better than ours. if the league ended level on points and GD, the next tiebreaker is goals scored and if we are ahead the with that, Can you say Premier League Champions? Even with 6 clean sheet in six victories in a row, they are only one point ahead of us, 2 measly goals ahead on the good scale and are still behind us in goals scored. We both know they can`t sustain this over a course of the season and they are about face City and Spurs who are no slouches in the attacking dept. so we will see. Again, you just jumped on the post without actually reading it fully and understanding the nuances presented hence, your response which has nothing to do with the comments themselves.

5.) 21 Nov 2016 20:57:16
Thanks for the comment, Extra Bacon. We have made some much progress under Klopp in one year and we are really, a work in progress and our margin of progression is only getting higher. However to keep improving as a club, CL is primordial as it allows you to develop more on the commercial side, keep your best players and acquire good players to help you improve further on the pitch. It`s a snowball effect really. Now do I want the title? Heck Yeah! But we should focus on running first before jumping while at the same time, enjoy the progress we are making and stick together come rain, sunshine, hell or high water. Now, I don`t know if this will land us the PL title but if we keep improving, CL football is certain. The title? We`ll discuss that some time in April as soon as CL footie is secured as that is the main target.

6.) 21 Nov 2016 20:58:42
That`s what I`m talking about, Tommy. let's just keep rolling and never look back. Where it leads us, we shall see.

7.) 21 Nov 2016 21:00:37
Sweet chin music

Chelsea have a better defensive record for the simple reason they are playing basic Italian style of football which is very effective at times and boring to watch 99% of the time, saying that they will be there or there abouts in the top 4 this season and it's going to be very close come April between the top 4 and I can see quite a gap between 4th and 5th by then.

8.) 21 Nov 2016 21:06:57
Bang on Hamilton great post. I think a lot of the individual errors come because the defenders have so little defending to do. We just have to improve our concentration which I'm sure we will.

9.) 21 Nov 2016 21:29:17
So do you want Klopp to change his style of play and be more defensive just to be better at defense Harry? Even if it comes at the cost of our attacking powers?

You should write a book Harry.

10.) 21 Nov 2016 21:34:30
Good read that Hamilton red, and like extra bacon said we are making other teams take a lot of notice, really enjoyable football this season long may it continue. extra bacon have u had bacon with maple syrup oh my god it's unreal, thanks canada we owe u.

11.) 21 Nov 2016 21:44:22
Hamilton I have just ticked agree to virtually every point you make. Just to make a further point, it is not just about the back four when defending. The other players have to stop the crosses and not allow the opposition time. This is the style we now play and it is so encouraging to see. In today's Telegraph Chris Bascombe, a reputed fan who has previously been critical when necessary, points to our all round improvement and the continued development of Matip and the fact that Lovren is increasingly more confident. Van Dyke was MoM but he had so much more to do. Soton did not try to compete. At the moment we are a difficult side to stop winning, while Chelsea et al are difficult to beat. Hopefully this will continue but nothing is guaranteed in this league.

12.) 21 Nov 2016 22:01:13
Thanks Savy
That was all I asked.

No I don't want Klopp to change the style.

13.) 21 Nov 2016 23:06:33
And since we are talking about Chelsea (this must be annoying Ed2) I watched them away to Middlesbrough give up numerous chances that had boro's players had a bit more quality would have resulted in certain goals. We played away to Southampton (a superior team than Boro) and gave them one chance in 94 minutes. Exactly as Hamilton said they were too busy trying to contain us to actually mount an attack whereas with Chelsea you keep Hazard and Costa quiet and there's no one else who can really hurt you as the rest are basically defenders. (I've left Pedro out of this because he's just not very good)

{Ed002's Note - It doesn't annoy me but there is a fundamental misconception - Conte arrived to play with three at the back - it took him a couple of months to get the players to be able to comfortably play that way - it was not transition but selling a concept to the players that they agreed with - and then getting them used to it. It is working OK right now and you can clutch at straws about the opposition and how great they are (forgetting that Southampton have already lost at home to Chelsea). This slightly weird obsession with Chelsea bothers me little. Have you thought about supporting a team playing a different sport? Perhaps cricket, which is more of a game, like darts and pocket billiards?}

14.) 21 Nov 2016 23:41:32
Thanks for all the posts, guys. Keep them coming as the discussion is heating up. What are your opinions, Eds?

{Ed002's Note - I have not seen or heard of anything beyond business as usual - Liverpool are doing very well, it will be very difficult to win the league but they cannot be discounted. A European place is certainly on the cards. Minor changes will happen but they cannot keep starting again. Other sides have been drawing games and Chelsea and Liverpool have taken advantage - that won't continue and Arsenal and Manchester City won't go away. Klopp is not entirely stupid and he will (or should) know that right now making changes to a successful first team could backfire. And nobody here is trashing any particular player - so the answer is tweak, and no more.}

15.) 22 Nov 2016 00:13:50
Hamilton, you echo my thoughts on Liverpool's defensive quality. A good post, but don't forget to use paragraphs, it will give your opinions a bigger audience!

I have never bought into the media narrative that we are a defensive shambles. I can't say I have noticed any team who has been able to wreak havoc on our defence. In my point of view, we are good at preventing teams from breaking us down. Where our vulnerabilities lie are stupid individual errors, clocking off when we are leading by a few goals, and occassionally set pieces. Our set piece defending has improved, but it could still be better. We still seem be slow to react to those rebound balls.

But compared to City or Arsenal, is our defence really that much worse? Not IMO. City were shipping in quite a few goals during their rough patch of form recently yet no one was going hysterical about their defence as much as they do about us if we let in goals.

16.) 22 Nov 2016 00:42:26
Savvxyone, have you even watched any of chelseas last 6 games? They've been anything but boring defensive games. And Pipscreamer, Chelsea demolished and were beyond comfortable against a Soton side you struggled to break down. If you're going to compare performances at least try and compare games against the same opponents. And Hamilton you're 'very attacking' Liverpool side have only scored 3 more goals than a 'very defensive' Chelsea side. Not so impressive ahah.

17.) 22 Nov 2016 02:36:19
Conte is getting the results and no one expected them to be on top. He has done a good job in a short time.

Last week was a missed opportunity for us. Klopp could have started or given more time to Sturridge or even Origi. Playing Firminio and without any striker most of the time will get Dan and Divock thinking about their future with us and any other future striker will think before coming to us.

18.) 22 Nov 2016 04:27:28
I wouldn't say that Chelsea are overly defensive. Think about it, they leave 3 at the back, and have two offensive wing-backs who bomb forward to assist and score goals. Conte may have been defensive in Italy, but everyone is defensive in Italy.

{Ed001's Note - he wasn't that defensive in Italy, he didn't need to be, there was only his team that were any good. It was easy for them.}

19.) 22 Nov 2016 06:42:49
I don't know know where people saw Chelsea defensive? Kante has spend More time in the opposition half than any other midfielder while their full backs are a lot better than Clyne and Milner going forward.

Take it Coutinho and Firmino and we will struggle. Did we not against UTD?

Playing 3 at the back has actually stabilized their team ( Comsisering they have externally poor CB's )

I think their performance against Everton and Southampton were first class.

20.) 22 Nov 2016 07:12:58
Liverpool struggled against United because they were just off their game. They seemed to be rattled, they couldn't even hold possession. United's pressing wasn't so good that it was impossible to retain the ball.

Dude, if any team will struggle to score goals if their striker and AM are off their game. This is not a uniquely Liverpool phenomenon.

21.) 22 Nov 2016 07:21:57
Agreed Nick

I was replying to someone above who claims, take out Hazard and Costa and they would struggle. Every team has certain talent who could unlock any team. Take out KDB and Aguero City will struggle. This is a crap thinking.

22.) 22 Nov 2016 08:33:08
I didn't say take out Hazard and Costa and they would struggle. My point was keep them quiet and you will have a chance. Just an observation from watching them the other day as everything decent attacking wise came from them. The rest will work but carry very little goal threat. Moses has done well but as we all know is not that great and Alonso, well if he played for us he'd get the Moreno treatment from most fans. No obsession with Chelsea Ed just carrying on a discussion as Sweet had brought them up as a comparison. Personally I couldn't care less what Chelsea do and think they will get found out before the end of the season.

23.) 22 Nov 2016 08:47:52
Thats for any team Pipsscreamer. Keep De Bruyne and Aguero quiet and City struggle. Keep Pogba and Zlatan quiet and United struggle. Keep Sanchez and Ozil quiet and Arsenal struggle. Break Harry Kane's leg and Spurs struggle.

I initially didn't think much of Chelsea, but that back 3 is working very well for them.

24.) 22 Nov 2016 07:38:55
Comparison is the thief of joy.

Be joyful we are playing very well, in a hugely entertaining way and getting good results.

Chelsea are also playing well and on a good run. City cannot be discounted. We need to focus on our game and not to worry overly about Chelsea or City until we play them. Our focus is beating the next team we face.

Oh, and ed002, don't diss cricket.

25.) 22 Nov 2016 09:34:30
Although I agree to a point Nick City would still have Silva, Sterling, Toure that could still hurt you. We would have Mane, Lallana, Can who can all score goals. Chelsea have nobody. It's all irrelevant anyway as I don't give a toss about Chelsea and would much rather talk about Liverpool I just got sucked in to a debate and Chelsea were mentioned as a comparison. We are doing well and long may it continue.

26.) 22 Nov 2016 09:58:37
Yeah, but City have struggled every time De Bruyne was injured.

27.) 22 Nov 2016 10:37:23
What Chelsea hold an advantage over City and Liverpool are they don't concede when their front players have an off day. They could easily rely on their backline and midfield to do a job. That is where the title would be decided this season.

28.) 22 Nov 2016 11:05:08
But Liverpool tend not to concede when not firing on all cylinders either. Attack was subpar against United and didn't concede. A bit subpar against Saints and didn't concede then either.

29.) 22 Nov 2016 17:07:08
Talking with both sides of your mouth again Harry. You said that Chelsea don`t concede when their front players have an off day as that may see them through to the title. Really? Was it not you berating us because our strikers had an off day vs Utd and So`ton because our front players were had an off day and yet not conceding? How is that a bad reflection on us BUT a good reflection on Utd and Chelsea? Seriously? You spent time praising Mou for being a genius where as all he did was park the bus, same thing Puel did so is Puel a genius too? You are literally giving credit to Chelsea and Utd but berating LFC for doing the exact same thing both teams do. Your hypocrisy is deafening. You know what, I`m dealing with Harry so never mind.



18 Nov 2016 16:07:03
Here`s what Guillem Balague had to say about Barca`s perceived interest in Coutinho:

"Barcelona love Coutinho but they have no strategy to sign him at the moment. Neymar would like them to sign him and Coutinho himself is interested in the fact that Barcelona have followed him.

"But at the moment, it's all media talk.

"That's because he's a forward and he can play where Lionel Messi and Neymar play but they are both there. Coutinho can't be a substitute of those. He's also going to cost around 70 million euros and there is no buyout clause. This would mean a lot of negotiating with Liverpool.

"I don't see it happening. Barcelona will spend their money somewhere else. "

I agree that Balague is not the most current nor reliable when it comes to transfers BUT what he said in the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs makes absolute sense, IMO. Ed`s and fellow posters, what`s your take?

Hamilton Red

{Ed001's Note - let me guess, this is on Balague's website, right? In which case, he probably won't have even seen the piece, let alone wrote it. He uses ghostwriters, as he doesn't have time to make up all the crap he posts on his own....}

1.) 18 Nov 2016 17:49:51
Didn't Balague say that Xabi Alonso was only interested in Barcelona and wouldn't join Real Madrid about a season before he joined Real Madrid?

{Ed001's Note - something like that yes.}

2.) 18 Nov 2016 18:20:13
Unless the two Spanish clubs don't come calling or can't match our valuation then there should be not problem in keeping him.

3.) 19 Nov 2016 00:31:39
Balague is a pure spoofer hasn't got anything right in years. Remember him saying Klopp was waiting for the bayern munich hours before we got Klopp.

{Ed007's Note - Wullie Ballache has stolen stuff off this site and passed it off as his own live on Sky Sports, I can't remember the specific story but Ed001 might. We seen it with our own eyes a few windows ago.}

4.) 19 Nov 2016 00:59:28
Ed07, if I remembered correctly one of the Eds did tell us that before. Not just Balague, but I didn't even bother reading the rumours sites other than this site.

{Ed007's Note - Yeah it happens quite often, it would surprise you who reads the sites. Some of the more naughty Eds throw a few lines out on a fishing expedition now and again to see who bites but we don't make a habit of it in case it misleads posters.
I done a belter a few years back about Guinness pumping money into Celtic that caught on up here in Scotland and embarrassed a 'big time' Celtic blogger a cracker, he was that wrapped up in having a scoop he didn't notice it was April 1st and when I tried to warn him - we were friendly at the tme- that it was me that started it all still he didn't believe me!}

5.) 19 Nov 2016 10:38:01
Ha so your not friends anymore.

6.) 19 Nov 2016 13:26:59
Thanks for the input, guys. I just thought that from a logical stand point, the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs made sense, not that it was reliable info which clearly, it is not.

7.) 19 Nov 2016 15:01:20
Funny that ed07 lol.




Hamilton Red's rumour replies


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19 Feb 2017 18:30:58
Ron, the simple fact is that Brandt is WAY ahead of Ojo and Wilson in his development as I watched him play in the U21 WC in 2015, the Olympics of last year and in the CL this season as well as already has 4 caps for the German senior side.

Comparing him with Ojo and Wilson is pointless and illogical. The kid has been special since he was 17 and that has not changed. Klopp wants him at all costs per reports and he is the real deal and having watched him some, I can see why. If Ojo and Wilson were that great in comparison, why did we not see the in Jan?

Hamilton Red



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19 Feb 2017 18:25:23
Now you see why Klopp prolly thought he wasn't worth the 10m LC was asking for.

Hamilton Red



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18 Feb 2017 22:47:26
That ship has sailed and he's no good anymore. If there's any BVB player I would like, it would definitely be Ousmane Dembele.

Hamilton Red



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18 Feb 2017 22:45:54
I really hope we get him as you say, he is perfect for Klopp's system cos Bayer play the exact system under Roger Schmidt.

Hamilton Red



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04 Feb 2017 19:17:21
Ben if you think Clyne is one of the best RB's in the PL then, you need to re-evaluate your knowledge of the RB position cos that is patently false. If Clyne was that good, why was Klopp looking to replace him last summer.

Clyne is poor especially offensively as he has no end product. He's a ball watcher and doesn't track runners, things TAA is already better at than him. Don't be surprised if he's no longer here next season.

Hamilton Red




Hamilton Red's banter replies


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01 Mar 2017 18:25:22
That is a false comparison, Harry. What did BR actually achieve exactly? Were you one of those cheering for him when we were getting stoned 6-1 by Stoke? We already have 14 points more than we did at this stage last season as well as have scored goals for fun.

Is everything rosy? No. Is he perfect? No! If you got by the media into thinking we could win the PL with all the holes still needing to be filled in the squad and comparing us to a potent squad like Chelsea's, then that is your fault and yours alone. You kept bleating on here as to why Klopp can't coach like Mou, Poch or Conte yet, none of these coaches can beat him.

We know you don't like Klopp hence, you beat him up whenever we lose cos it's what you do. But stop comparing him with BR cos he won NOTHING here in three years and Klopp (who is 18 months on the job) played two finals in 8 months with BR's team, the very one he himself trashed when he needed to. BR will never be in his league even with 100 trophies in the pathetic Sunday league in Scotland.

Hamilton Red



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24 Feb 2017 02:16:42
Thank you, Ed. Kasper was NEVER a great GK, period. We know that Karius was great in the Bundesliga and that is a fact so we know he is talented as the Bundesliga is the home of modern day GK's.

Hamilton Red



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24 Feb 2017 02:12:57
We said the same thing about Mane before he came to us yet see what happened.

Hamilton Red



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24 Feb 2017 02:10:15
You are allowed an opinion of course BUT I am free to disagree. Bottom line is that regardless of what you thought of him, no one really knows if he will be ready until he gets a fair crack at the position. That is just a fact regardless of opinion as no one knows what will happen except of course, if you can tell the future. Since you can't, let's wait and see what happens.

I thought Wiji was a mistake coming to us and right now, I'm happy to be proved wrong as he has been a good signing for us even tho I thought his arrival was a mistake. I was ready to give him time and that is all I ask from you instead of saying "nothing will change", something that no basis in fact, just opinions, which are not facts, FYI. Give the kid time to prove you wrong or right is all I ask.

Hamilton Red



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22 Feb 2017 01:07:08
Not good enough and not needed. Karius is no.1 and Klopp is not going to bin him.

Hamilton Red