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17 Jun 2018 07:17:17
A discussion about VAR.

I know a lot of people here are not convinced by it but it is an idea which is growing on me. What really tipped it for me was a moment in Portugal vs Spain- the first Spain goal.

Sergio Busquets played a long ball to Diego Costa who won it from Pepe in an aeriel duel. In the usually horrific circumstances for Pepe there was slight contact between Costa's arm and his face and naturally, he went down as though he'd been hit by a pellet bomb. Now, had there been no VAR, I am sure the referee would have called a foul, but having the ability to bring the play back to review allowed him to let play go on. Costa got the ball and as he was trying to get his shot away, the fatally decapitated Pepe realised that the play was not stopping and he was alive after all, so he got up and ran to stop Costa. In that moment it became clear to the referee that Pepe was playacting. So in this case, the mere presence of VAR was enough to prevent an act of cheating from having scuppered a great goal from Costa.

I know the system isn't ideal but clearly there are some great benefits to be had from it. In addition to above, it's great to know that the result of a crucial game will not be determined by an opponent's cheating or a mistake by the linesman. Those who are still not convinced, what would you do to fix it given that it's the future of the game.


{Ed001's Note - while I don't like Pepe and he did make far too much of it, that was a foul and it is just as likely to be given under VAR as it would have been without it.}

1.) 17 Jun 2018 08:16:12
I am all for using video to improve refereeing but I still wish they used a review system instead of the current method. I just feel it's going to lead to refs using it as a crutch. I was amazed the ref didn't immediately give Peru a pen against Denmark and, instead, waited for the VAR system to alert him to the fact.

My worry is that the onfield ref will just become a mouthpiece for the video refs with little authority themselves.

2.) 17 Jun 2018 08:47:32
I thought it was a foul too. Detest Pepe tho.

3.) 17 Jun 2018 09:03:14
I thought it was a foul myself and thought that incident was indicative of the flaws of the system: humans are still making the decisions - humans are fallible and humans see things differently from one another. It was a similar story in the Australia game where I thought the defender touched the ball onto Griezman but VAR awarded a pen. It might stop absolute howlers (and even that is not a certainty) but contentious issues will still be rife. Also don't like how players are already clamouring for the VAR in games nor the way it slows games down. I'd rather the referees where just respected much more irrespective of mistakes - it would empower them and give them a platform to referee better.

4.) 17 Jun 2018 09:10:42
We talk about refs decisions now we talk about var, what's changed. A good example is I 100% didn't think Griezmans was a pen yesterday but there will be many who thought it was.

5.) 17 Jun 2018 09:30:29
I was in a bar full of people who didn't think that greizmans was a penalty and we were struggling to see how it was a "clear mistake" allowing VAR to overturn it. Argentina should have had a penalty in the later game that the ref didn't give and VAR didn't intervene, it still doesn't give consistency it's just another guys opinion sat behind a screen. Drogba, Neville and the other pundit on BBC had 3 different opinions on that Greizman pen so it must be difficult but I thought that's why it had to be a clear and obvious mistake for them to get involved. I also think that certain players will learn to initiate contact so that it looks bad under slow motion cameras, France were disgusting for all their play acting yesterday.

6.) 17 Jun 2018 09:41:52
What I like about VAR and other similar systems in rugby and ice hockey is the players cannot wander up to it and influence them like they do with refs on the field.

Unless governing bodies are going to get more strict about players approaching the ref they need to use VAR.

7.) 17 Jun 2018 09:43:48
The one for Australia agaisnt France - the clear handball by umtiti - is how it should be used. It was clear and obvious and they didn't need 3/ 4 looks to see if it was a foul. Just a quick glance and it's a clear pen. The France penalty people are still debating now - the refs decision should stand.
The bit I don't like is what the OP said, letting the play GK as they know they can go back. The refs should make the calls as they see them, not let everything go as they have a chance to review it.

8.) 17 Jun 2018 10:04:14
It was a foul but I'm glad it wasn't given because Pepe is a notorious play actor and I hate the way players roll around.

9.) 17 Jun 2018 10:55:55
It was a stone wall foul and I couldn’t believe people saying it wasn’t a clear and obvious mistake. He didn’t nearly know him out or anything but it was an arm to the face that clearly knocked him off balance having jumped for the ball.

10.) 17 Jun 2018 13:24:00
It was a foul.

11.) 17 Jun 2018 17:41:56
On another occasion the ref would allow his whistle too early.

12.) 17 Jun 2018 17:42:47
The 'clear and obvious error' moniker was coined by Mike Riley and it stuck. It's not actually on the protocol. He used it as a means to explain its use so that people would understand, and true to form, it's all that people focus on.

I have been sceptical of VAR in it's current form in the UK, but seeing how they let the game flow in the World Cup, even when a decision is imminent, has really impressed me. Players will get used to just getting on with it and playing to the whistle. Obviously not all decisions will be 100% correct, but more will be and any improvement is an improvement nonetheless. Also, there is less harassing of the referees, minimum delays (or delays at suitable times) and a consistency can be more easily maintained. So far, the World Cup usage has changed my mind.



04 Jul 2017 16:29:45
Hi Ed002, thanks for all your input.

From what you say it almost seems like tapping is a systematic strategy employed by the club to drive prices down. If so then this is even worse than the manager bumbling along tapping one player after next of his own accord.

I understand we don't want to be too specific about LFC for libel reasons but are footy clubs historically known to use tapping systematically and if yes what's the biggest punishment they have received (if any)?

Or have I misunderstood totally and the decision to tap is made spontaneously for some other reason?

Thanks again!


{Ed002's Note - I don't think it is a club strategy. It was only one person who briefed a few choice members of the press.}

1.) 04 Jul 2017 17:21:39
Eds 002 do you think klopp is in danger of losing his job over his tapping up antics?

{Ed002's Note - No but he is embarrassing the club and making things difficult for the owners.}

2.) 04 Jul 2017 18:16:12
Who was that person?

{Ed002's Note - Klopp.}




hhanif005's rumour replies


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21 Mar 2019 21:04:46
I’m wondering if tapping up is the logical inverse of patting down?




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30 Jul 2018 17:35:04
Didn't Klopp say categorically that it's best for his development to stay at Dortmund and that there may be a possibility in the future? So clearly he believes that Pulisic isn't good enough to start for us currently. We can't expect to bring him to compete with Shaqiri for the back up role.




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13 Jul 2018 07:24:28
I think we had concerns of similar nature about Mane, Wijnaldum and Keita before they joined. Mane and Gini have been impeccable in terms of attitude so hopefully Shaqiri will also turn a page and start playing for the team.

We must admit though, what a player! I think he must be the best YouTube player ever because when he does score his strikes are stunning.




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29 Jun 2018 20:59:07
It will be an odd mix to have quinoa and Mo salad with chicken Keita masala.




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10 Jun 2018 19:17:29
Do people realise that possibility is not the same is probability.

Probability is a statistical figure which you can quantify. So if you said we have 50% chances of signing Fekir, what you are actually saying is that for every 100 Fekirs you will sign 50 successfully. That's a lot of midfielders. But that's also nonsense!

Then you have possibility, which is stated as a chance in somebody's opinion. So you can say things like it's likely, or unlikely, or difficult to say, or impossible, or certain, or don't know, etc.

Hope that clears things up.





hhanif005's banter replies


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21 Apr 2019 19:33:27
I think we should keep an open mind and hope City will lose all of their remaining matches.




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20 Apr 2019 22:34:31
I have only heard the short snippet of Salah's interview- it's not clear whether it's a well thought out message or just a casual reflection of what he has felt since moving to UK.

If it's a casual reflection, then fair play to him.

But if he's doing it as part of some campaign then I think it's very naive. He should definitely use his platform to raise awareness. But he should realise that a middle Eastern man using western media to promote gender fairness is similar to a black man using mainstream media to highlight knife crime in black community. It is like shooting yourself in the foot.

The western media has a long history of giving black and other ethnic people a voice to speak ill of their cultures. It only works to spread negativity about their cultures. Knife gang members won't be looking for inspiration in mainstream magazines to give up their weapons. Similarly Egyptian men won't look at Time magazine to seek inspiration about their treatment of women. His statements will however serve the racists and islamophobes next time they want to find dirt on Arabs and Muslims. I have seen a long list of Asian and Arab personalities given a podium, a seat in government, or some other prize (MBE etc) to speak about how their cultures are flawed and they found enlightenment by adopting the western culture and values. It's all part of the plan to advance the western culture around the world for a political gain.

It's either terrible PR or naivity.




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18 Apr 2019 12:32:20
As much as I love Salah, I see his PR to be a total disaster.

I think footballers should stick to kicking the ball about and only speak about issues if they have something genuinely original and impactful to say, for example Raheem Sterling and those who spoke about mental health issues recently.

I am not an Egyptian but I am sure his fellow countrymen will not appreciate him rabitting on about their local societal problems in a western magazine. I have seen umpteenth stories of impoverished youth from poor countries getting invitations in the west to talk trash about their background and cultures, in exchange for fame and financial opportunities.

I doubt Salah will get much sympathy if he spoke about the role of west in the perpetual oppression of places like Egypt under despot regimes, the corruption it causes and the lack of education.

No doubt his PR team are trying to force-fit him into the western media by asking him to make statements like these. Perhaps they are trying to win a major sponsorship for him.


{Ed001's Note - or perhaps it is something he feels strongly about for good reason. Having seen the way some Egyptian men treat their girlfriends here, he is making a very pertinent point, which you are dismissing out of pure ignorance.}



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18 Apr 2019 12:14:36
Some broadcasters get allocations of matches between them. Alternating days is to give them the opportunity to show one leg of each tie. Remember the Sky/ ITV days?




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20 Mar 2019 01:14:08
Ed002, thanks for the insight!

Ed25, heart of a mouse? Wow have you ever seen Lallana bottle a challenge, lose a 50/ 50, or shown poor work rate? If nothing else, the guy has commitment!


{Ed025's Note - that could be me being over sceptical hanif, i have a deep mistrust of players who are out injured a lot, daniel sturridge has a lot to answer for mate..