23 Jun 2024 16:59:17
England have not had a top manager since Bobby Robson and Sir Alf Ramsey, so everybody shouldn't get their expectations up. Southgate cost England the last euros with the decision to make two subs who missed their pens.
To use TAA as an experiment is unbelievable how many games did he have before the euros to experiment with. The man has run his course as England manager.
23 Jun 2024 17:29:41
Would it be an experiment if Trent played in midfield for us?
23 Jun 2024 18:04:25
Exactly jk.
23 Jun 2024 18:14:12
Venables was a top manager.
23 Jun 2024 18:20:46
I'm pretty sure all of Trent's England appearances in the last year have been as a midfielder.
You can accuse Southgate of a lot of things, but not trying Trent in midfield until the Euros is not one of them, tbf.
{Ed025's Note - it could be that nobody noticed he was actually playing SR because he has been that bloody awful?..
23 Jun 2024 18:46:57
Let’s all hope that Slot has been watching the Euros and doesn’t try pull a Southgate and play Trent in our midfield. Trent is not a midfielder and never will be because he just doesn’t have the skill set, game management skills. Trent is a fantastic RB with skills that not many RBs posses so I can never understand why people want to push him into midfield?
23 Jun 2024 18:57:58
So what do we do with Trent if he’s not playing in midfield for Liverpool because CB is a brilliant right back. This is a genuine question ??♂️.
23 Jun 2024 18:58:59
The point (at least the point I have been trying to make in previous posts) is that TAA's main talent of lethal passing and crossing in attack to the forward line, is not being utilized at all. It's nowhere to be seen. So it really makes no difference whether he is at RB or DM, because if he's not providing that then what's the point of having him in the team? Is he actually the best DM available who can sit next to Rice for that double pivot role? Absolutely not. Southgate is doing a gross disservice to both the team collectively and TAA individually.
TAA can never ever do well in that double pivot role for England because of the way Southgate has set it up. When TAA was in the midfield role for LFC there was a decline in his offensive output (compared to being the marauding RB), but he wasn't sitting right next to Endo or Mac Allister all the time. He was still pushing forward with runs and passes to the forwards.
Let's go by most of the commentaries on here about his inverted role at LFC. All concerns had to do with the space he was leaving behind and which Konate or Quansah had to cover. Almost nothing about any lack of offensive activity.
It boogles the mind. You have a unique talent who can make threatening pinpoint passes that can land on a dime from both medium and long range. And yet you have him sitting back and making short range 5-10 feet passes. Southgate would rather prefer Foden to leave his left forward position empty (because Trippier was certainly not filing it up) and come down to defenders level to collect the ball and move it on. Tactical stupidity.
{Ed025's Note - i agree with a lot of that ArAy, but i still dont know where England or in fact Liverpool play him?, if he was played as a wingback then yes i see that, not good enough defensively to be a full back, absolutely clueless in midfield unless you can accommodate a luxury player mate..
23 Jun 2024 19:01:54
Did Robson or Venables get to a final?
23 Jun 2024 19:18:53
Dow-ney. It's because, as an RB, people were previously concerned about some of his defensive abilities while being ecstatic about his offensive skills and powers. So people thought that with the appearance of Conor Bradley, TAA could be pushed forward and tip the balance in our favor in games. It has worked out with mixed results in my opinion for LFC. But for England it has been a disaster; we see some of the same defensives issues but now virtually no offensive production in comparison as an RB.
I personally am still open to him being in midfield (but it's not an absolute), but only once we see what Slot has planned for him. As an 8, TAA could possibly do well. Remains to be seen. Definitely not as a 6, because I think he needs to be babysat by a Declan Rice or someone equally as good.
23 Jun 2024 19:18:55
Personally thought Venables was a good manager who was victim of another Fleet Street hatchet job. You’d think that Southgate, who played under Venables, might have tried 352 like they played in Euro 96, Trent wide right and Saka wide left in the same way he had Macmanaman and Anderton on the wings. Best use of available resources and would mean a lot of quality crosses from the right.
23 Jun 2024 19:32:07
I think you know the answer to that question Long thing, one of them will be sold. This is part of the reason I have been advocating for TAA in midfield although I have changed my mind on that one. It is an issue though! I just hope of Trent does continue at RB he is afforded the cover he badly needs.
Is Trent just one of those players that has incredible on the ball talent but doesn't really fit any position?
I wonder how much RM would pay for that sort of player.?
{Ed025's Note - he very well might be Westwood..
23 Jun 2024 19:35:02
Pickford is the weak link in that English just .
{Ed025's Note - they are all weak links at the moment Endo..
23 Jun 2024 19:36:37
Thanks Ed025. I'd first like to see what Slot has planned for him because we are told that Slot favors a double pivot in front of the defense. If Slot sets it up the same way that Southgate has done, the "experiment" will fail. And you put TAA back in the RB position. That's where he is at his best. Because this 'learning' he is going through in midfield is taking long and can really screw up his confidence and skills. If Slot sets it up differently and gives TAA more offensive responsibilities from that position, then it may yet work. Have both Bradley and TAA on the field at the same time (the Netherlands did it with Frimpong and Dumfries on the right) . Let's try it out and see what we get?
{Ed025's Note - worth a shot i suppose ArAy..
23 Jun 2024 19:41:33
Jesus wept VV mate I actually agree with you here, Venables along with Robson were exceptional England managers, maybe a touch unlucky with their results but nevertheless what a joy to watch unlike the s*#t show that Southgate has conjured up and who knows if Mr Glen Hoddle hadn’t had made an almighty balls up with one of his statements he too might have been in the same bracket as the aforementioned managers.
23 Jun 2024 19:55:23
How many people would have pirlo or xabi in midfield? I'm guessing everyone right?
Both were not good defenders and both were slow as well. But played alongside a DM who did the dirty work so they could focus on recycling possession and pinging passes.
One thing we know 100% for sure - Trent cannot be in defense. He has none of the attributes of a defender.
So if you don't want him in midfield then you must want him sold because there isn't really anywhere else to play him.
{Ed025's Note - and thats the problem right there Nevada..
23 Jun 2024 19:56:42
It will be interesting to see how Slot sets up. I know he played 4231 at Feynoord but Klopp played the same at Dortmund and then changed his approach with LFC and has continued to do so over the years.
Same as Pep I suppose he’s not always played the same way and formations during his career.
If slot can only has one way of playing then that’s a worry.
I’ve seen it said that he sets up teams better defensively and he has the ability to coach more goals out of Nunez.
So on that basis Trent at right back shouldn’t be a problem as we will be defensively better set up and Slot can coach Trent better.
23 Jun 2024 20:26:24
Trent doesn't fit any positions now?as whes won everyything, played 3 champs lge finals and will probably be in the top 2 or 3 for assists EVER in the premier league by the time he calls it a day, anyone would think he was a decent fullback.
23 Jun 2024 20:27:54
Have to totally disagree there Nevada mate.
Trent might have defensive frailties but very full back in the premier league will look to have weakness’s up against premier league wingers and forwards at some point during the games.
It’s just Trent’s get broadcasted more.
Look at Vinicius. He gives every fullback the run around and it’s always because he’s world class from pundits and media.
But when he did it to
Trent it’s because Trent is poor.
We won a league and CL with Trent as a defender and you don’t win those playing with 10 men or passengers.
23 Jun 2024 20:28:43
Where a classy young player like Trent fits in the team is a problem most managers can only dream of.
I’m confident Slot will work it out even if us armchair fans can’t.
23 Jun 2024 20:34:12
From what I've heard Slot plays a variety of styles taking things he likes from other teams and tweaking it to suit his teams. Feyenoords style for example changed a fair bit from his title winning season to this year (runners up) .
One thing I hope to see more of is wingers/ full backs getting to the bye line and cutting the ball back for a central striker or midfielder arriving in the box. It's a style he likes and should guarantee a lot of goals for Nunes, Gakpo, and Jota even Jayden Danns if he continues to get chances.
23 Jun 2024 21:12:31
Treat was the scapegoat before the tournament kicked off . Must terrible player him especially if Madrid are monitoring him because they sign dross don’t they ?
The lad will divide opinion all his career just a shame people can’t see the bigger picture their are thousands of players that can’t defend very well (at times) but their are only a hand full that can do what he can do with his passing range in world football .
I tend to have a glass half full mentality so maybe I’m being more positive than i should .
{Ed025's Note - I think you are Dhfc. But nothing wrong with that mate..
23 Jun 2024 23:25:46
He is a manager who clearly lacks accountability. Lots criticizing those two matches. What did he say to answer these criticisms? Told everyone Trent was an experiment. Told everyone the team missed Phillps.
Why the heck you were experimenting during a tournament? If the team missed Phillips, then why didn't he just call him into the squad earlier on?
23 Jun 2024 23:28:41
The thing is TAA playing in midfield for Liverpool are two entirely different things. At Liverpool with Klopp and hopefully Slot there is an actual plan (and usually a reasonable plan B) . With England Southgate wants TAA to be a replacement for Phillips which is hardly a cohesive team plan.
As an aside why does Phillips need replacing - he is still alive and playing (for want of a better term) in the PL. why isn’t he in the England squad if Southgate rates him so highly?
23 Jun 2024 23:43:31
TAA is the scapegoat for what?
We are top of the group after two games and likely to go through to the next stage!
I'm sick of hearing about TAA now ?. If he plays in midfield it's because there's nobody better and that's down to the state of English football, the manager or both.
If we go out it's because we were not good enough. We.
But let's not have the post mortem because we're not quite dead yet.
Yet ?.
24 Jun 2024 00:25:48
Alex Fergusson failed to get Scotland to the final of Mexico 86, indeed he failed to get them out of their group, indeed he finished last in his group only securing 1 point thanks to a goalless draw with Uruguay.
So @Irish Rover - I guess Alex Fergusson wasn’t a great manager then?
24 Jun 2024 01:04:58
For me TAA is a RB, he was a RB when we won every major honour and had a rediculous amount of assists from that position! Trent has obvious defensive weaknesses but with the right set up ( as we did when we won the league) you compensate what he brings offensively for what he lacks defensively… I’m not a fan of the inverted RB position or at least I wasn’t under Klopp because I don’t think we were set up very welll defensively but maybe in a 4-2-3-1 formation we may offer Trent more protection in that inverted role.
For me Trent is a great talent, not without weaknesses but a player you keep and appreciate, he has been exposed both at club level under Klopp and on the international stage and been made a scapegoat many times. I’m not trying to say Trent couldn’t defend better or apply himself more but at times over the last season or two we have given him no protection and asked him to almost cover the entirety of the right side of the pitch.
24 Jun 2024 03:07:59
Trent can play midfield for Liverpool.
This one isn't even that difficult. We'll play with way more movement and he can float out to the wing like how our CMs do. He does this on occasion with England too, but it's rare because the movement is so static that the only space he can really move into is the space he is currently in so he invariably has to just stay where he is.
I think people are being way too critical of his supposed lack of skillset. Do we agree that Macca has better skillset to be a midfielder? yes? yet he's lost the ball a couple times receiving the ball under pressure and facing our own goal. It happens to the best.
But we're in the early stages of Trent as a midfielder and I'm more than prepared to let him develop into that role and build upon his strengths.
24 Jun 2024 06:47:36
Not even comparable Ron. England with the depth of players they have are expected to do well in competitions. Nobody expects Scotland to do anything.
On the international stage, Southgate has done better than Venebles and Robson, that’s what we are talking about after all, not some managers club career.
24 Jun 2024 06:53:02
Dow-ney
I issue is does Trent see himself as a right back?
24 Jun 2024 07:28:01
Jk23, I honestly think your comment is the best on this thread by an absolute mile. In fact this is one of the most embarrassing threads I’ve read on here. You expect the witch hunt from rival fans or the media looking for a story. But why on earth are Liverpool fans buying into the BS when we watch him 50 times a season and know it’s not true. Or maybe some people don’t watch the games and are just jumping on the bandwagon. We should’ve sacked Klopp years ago if he chose somebody who can’t defend to be his starting RB. He was clearly brain dead, right?
You are spot on JK23. If Walker, James, Wan Bissaka, Trippier, White etc make a defensive mistake or get beaten a bit easily, or caught too high up the pitch, nobody bats an eyelid. Trent does anything and it’s straight under the media microscope and social media has a field day. It’s an absolute myth that he can’t defend. He does have 2 issues defensively to be fair; 1 being that he is very poor at defending headers at the back post, and the other 1 being that he is relatively slow off the mark so really quick wingers can give him the run around.
If he’s so bad defensively we wouldn’t have won every trophy in club football with him at right back would we. Of course he is sometimes caught up the pitch, he has been asked to play either as a wing back or an inverted full back by Klopp for years. So if possession gets turned over he can’t realistically make a lung bursting 80 yard recovery run every couple of minutes. His defensive issues are blown well out of proportion. Multiple times you see him get around the back of the CB’s and make a recovery tackle. He is brilliant at holding the offside trap. He has good timing in the tackle and rarely concedes silly free kicks. His positioning is excellent when defending low crosses or cut backs. He virtually never dives in to concede penalties. He’s one of the best in the world at playing out from the back which every manager wants to do nowadays. All these aspects he’s good at get completely over looked every time he gets cooked by Vini Jr, Mbappe, Doku, Martinelli etc. but those guys cook nearly every full back they face. All the BS about Walker, Mane had him on toast every time they played. It was never once highlighted by the media.
Southgate fuelled this agenda with his ridiculous comments a few years ago. I can’t believe Trent even wants to play for him. He’s not the best 1v1 defender in the world (but he’s still better than people imply) and he is admittedly weak in the air. And yes these are important aspects, but they do not define him as a player because there are so many things he is world class at.
He’ll be absolutely fine under Slot as a RB or a CM and then a lot of people will be eating humble pie in my opinion. Someone else said it, but why on earth do Real Madrid (best team in the planet) want Trent if he is such a dud, that he doesn’t even fit a position. Typical of modern fans really that the first world class talent out the academy since Gerrard is totally unappreciated. This threads absolutely shocking. By all means, have that opinion though. Maybe myself, Klopp and Ancelotti are the ones who are wrong ??♂️.
24 Jun 2024 08:22:41
@TIR, Roston and Venables and even some bald managers have actually on trophies, Southgate has never won anything. In that respect Robson, Venables and a variety of bald professional managers have won more than Southgate.
24 Jun 2024 09:09:19
Trent = Good attacking fullback, technically great on the ball but absolutely awful defensively at right back and will never ever be a top midfielder because he lacks is much to play in there.
24 Jun 2024 11:03:45
Spot on MK, am sure there was a not so famous footballer a few years back with a wand of a right foot, wasn’t that fast couldn’t skin players yet seemed to have a relatively ok playing career, was eulogised and vilified throughout, what was his name Beck-something or other!
It’s about actually having a plan for him to be able to use such a weapon not stick him in a low block, static midfield with no runners to be able to use his ability. The only outlet currently in the England team is Saka which then makes it an easy situation for other teams to nullify. Nothing on the left and nothing in the middle to be able to place an incisive pass through. So he becomes the scape goat of Englands poor performances. Bellingham on the flip side plays 30 mins of decent football in 2 games and is the worlds best and Englands saviour.
Did anyone actually see the pass Trent made to Grealish in the warm up matches, I could watch that over and over, pace, swerve, absolute precision to his feet when Jack was in full sprint, that you can’t put a price on?
Why was that? He had options and runners. What’s is his best position IDK, but he’s one of ours with a right foot sprinkled with fairy dust and a left foot that most right footers would die for so let’s all get behind the lad.
{Ed025's Note - wow really KNG?, so you are giving Trent exclusivity into the national side because of a pass he made to Grealish in a friendly??...wow just wow, i think maybe you and Southgate could be the next big thing mate.. :)
24 Jun 2024 16:40:33
Going up the thread a little. Nevada, are you talking Xabi Alonso? While he wasn't a defender, he was great defensively! A master at reading the game and breaking up opposition play.
He really didn't rely on anyone next to him. I assume you are referring to having Mascherano by his side. They played in the same midfield but as much as I loved Masch, Alonso was levels ahead and didn't need him there. We were just lucky to have them both there.
25 Jun 2024 14:29:06
:-) Not at all Ed, in fact under the current tactics wouldn’t play him at all. It doesn’t suit his game. Was more a criticism of current state of watching Eng with no width or movement and stating not just Trent’s fault a la media and trolls. Southgate’s as clueless as you think I am? and it’s been over debated but I feel given the right system you get a player who can put a pass to perfection to open up defences (maybe I need new glasses) But hey, what a pass to Grealish, we surely must agree on that ?. Btw agree or disagree with your comments -I love em, I don’t post hardly at all but l appreciate all the comments from posters and esp. the Ed’s YNWA- even the blue side like you 25.
{Ed025's Note - we all see what we want to see KNG, i would love Trent to be this world beater that a lot say he is mate but i just dont see it im afraid especially in midfield, but i must agree on that pass to Grealish, some people get their rocks off by watching porn...not me though...its You Tube and that pass to Grealish that does it for me every time.. :)
25 Jun 2024 19:22:19
Nice one 25, great to have a bit of a debate, appreciate ya, (as the yanks would say. )
{Ed025's Note - cheers KNG, its what we all here for mate a bit of friendly banter..