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24 Apr 2024 07:39:01
{Ed's Note - Lets Be Rational has posted a new article entitled, Has PGMOL turned into an impossible to overthrow dictatorship?
1.) 24 Apr 2024 09:59:38
Feel like you’ve parroted a lot of what Goldbridge said in his podcast. I don’t disagree with the sentiments but this borders on plagiarism.
23 Apr 2024 17:57:54
Lets Be Rational has written an article entitled, Has PGMOL turned into an impossible-to-overthrow dictatorship?
1.) 23 Apr 2024 19:08:01
Ya think, LBR?
2.) 23 Apr 2024 19:46:33
I'm happy to die on this hill, but VAR isn't the issue. There is a huge lack of competency from officials, top to bottom. the officials make basic errors, whether that's communication or failing to have the balls to overturn something.
The powers that be put officials in games they shouldn't be in. How many times have we argued about Manchester refs. They may not be biased but it opens up the question.
The rules are vague so open to interpretation. Handball being the main one.
offside is black and white but i don't think the tech is foolproof. Its reliant on taking measurements when the ball is played but frame rates make it impossible to be accurate. So there is no element of wiggle room as officials are told to keep their flags down. So you can't have the equivalent of umpires call.
The tech can help them, but PGMOL need to get their house in order.
{Ed025's Note - i think your right WYred, the referees are incompetent fools who are using VAR as a crutch mate..
3.) 23 Apr 2024 20:49:25
Ed25, a former referee in Mike Dean saying that he decided to not alert a fellow referee to a wrong call in a match via VAR because he doesn't want him to get "more grief". The match referee also happens to be his friend Anthony Taylor. It just show the state of refereeing in this league. Its beyond a joke.
{Ed025's Note - it really is mfahmee, its no wonder people are calling it corruption mate when you hear stories like this , they dont know their arse from their elbow at the PGMOL and its become a total joke..
4.) 23 Apr 2024 20:52:14
I think people are to quick to scream corruption after every var call is incorrect. They give the refs to much credit, there not smart enough to make a correct call never mind be able to hide thousands of pounds of bungs. Incompetence is the word people should be using, and it highlights the incompetence of the PGMOL for not getting the structure right at the top. Webb is out of his depth, the team of “elite” refs are all out of their league and it’s just the brown stuff rolling down hill and the fans have to suffer.
5.) 23 Apr 2024 21:13:43
PGMOL is a limited company, so it would be interesting if any aggrieved party took them to court for failing to provide a service with reasonable care and skill.
6.) 23 Apr 2024 21:21:51
Andy, I just think it's time to call it out in more drastic ways. If not, as I write, it is only get worse before it gets better.
Corruption is a strong word to use, it holds a lot of significance. Incompetence can more easily be swept under the carpet. It's all in the ways we challenge these decisions, and the words used simply hold a lot of power.
I don't necessarily call every decision corrupt - but the way PGMOL handles every case, openly make mistakes and then in secrecy make sure that no one is punished or held responsible, sweeping everything away, what else are we going to call it.
When you see the pundits and journalists being well paid by the mainstream to time and time again side with PGMOL, to not call out the glaringly obvious mistakes, I think corruption is a fair term to use. They are literally getting paid to take part in a machinery that decides who wins and who don't, a lot of economical structures rely on these decisions, and those keeping quiet only add to worsen the conditions.
As I write, not until especially the pundits and journalists grow a pair and quit their comfortable positions, will I trust it to get better.
{Ed002's Note - There is no corruption - an overused and misunderstood word. Who is paying them all off?}
7.) 23 Apr 2024 21:44:48
At least Nottingham Forest has discovered that VAR is, in fact, Eric Morecambe.
Cup of tea, Ern?
Seriously though, I agree with Ed002. There is too much incompetence and too many incompetents for it to be corruption.
I'd do away with it tomorrow.
8.) 23 Apr 2024 21:55:19
No-one can explain to me why VAR is not run by Artificial Intelligence.
9.) 23 Apr 2024 22:19:38
@Ron At times I think it is run by Artificial Unintelligence.
10.) 23 Apr 2024 22:44:35
Money doesn't have to change hands for something to be corrupt or corrupted.
The Tories are currently corrupt in their ability to tell the truth, propose sensibly policy or not stoke fake culture wars.
11.) 23 Apr 2024 22:49:37
Refs don’t need to run VAR. It should not be used for “interpretation”. That’s the on field refs job.
It should be used for line calls and handballs.
If it hits the hand in the box it’s a penalty.
Fouls -ref looks at the screen.
12.) 24 Apr 2024 04:56:51
It's a multi-clown circus of inconsistency and incompetency in equal measures.
I'd like to go back to the "win some lose some" decisions in football and be done w VAR. We can have video review on a Monday to either clear or award red cards. I'd bring in the CL offside AI to replace VAR.
But as we all know it's here to stay. What is it year 5 or so now. it should be seamless by now just catching seismic errors and not used for picking gnat rubbish out of black pepper.
13.) 24 Apr 2024 06:44:00
"If it hits the hand in the box it’s a penalty. "
Ron it is not always that simple. What if a skillful player is able to kick the ball into the defenders hand, or the attacker pushes the players hand into the ball.
However, i guess i am being pedantic and I suspect your argument is that clearer rules are needed, as well as appropriate application.
I would argue another use of tech would help here, instead of running over to a screen on the opposite side of the pitch, is there another form of tech the ref can carry to get a quicker look?
I would love to have refs with a microphone to get clarification on things. Also to stop players crowding the ref.
14.) 23 Apr 2024 22:06:18
Ed02, by now it is such a big machinery and so much money is being thrown around, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
It might just be the unfairness of it all, that makes me and others take words like corruption and dictatorship and misconduct etc. in use. I don't claim to know everything that is happening, I'm not saying PGMOL are the literal meaning of a dictatorship, and I don't want to go all out on conspiracies that I don't know the half of. But I don't know a single supporter of football who isn't sick to death about the current status of the game, and the way rules are being bent and swept away to fit some of these absurd narratives. And I think that the fact that no one is happy about it, yet it only seems to get worse, there just just has to be some kind of sinister favouritism or fraudulence going on.
Maybe if the pundits and journalists, who's voices could have a big impact, weren't siding with these absurdities meanwhile being paid decent money (I'm not saying they're bribed), it would sit better with me. But the fact that money seem to at least have the possibility of playing a huge role in all of this, the word corruption is just what springs to mind.
Words hold a lot of power, and as I say, I think more drastic words need to be taken into use if anything needs to get better.
{Ed002's Note - So who is paying PGMOL to be corrupt?}
15.) 23 Apr 2024 22:31:12
I’ve never thought there to be corruption ed2, gross incompetence yes but not out right corruption. However, that statement that forest released has suggested corruption. Did Clattenburg have anything to do with that statement because if so what would lead him to make a thinly veiled suggestion of corruption by stating that they warned about the var being a Luton fan. What else can be interpreted from that particular line of the statement, and why on earth would a former ref suggest that the var would not be impartial, is it from past experience?
{Ed002's Note - I am not aware of Forest suggesting anyone is paying off anyone to be corrupt. You seem to be struggling to understand the words you are using.}
16.) 24 Apr 2024 00:10:18
If it's not corrupt refs, then they're just useless, Ed002 and something needs to change very quickly.
{Ed002's Note - IF you think it is corruption, please share who is paying them.}
17.) 24 Apr 2024 09:49:02
You do not need to pay everyone off for corruption to work, just pay enough of them. Look at the Chicago White Sox.
Referees jetting off to the UAE on Etihad airlines to referee games during this season? Was that for free? Would it be deemed fair and proper conduct in any other vocation?
However, I am falling on the side of incompetence. I don’t want to believe it is corruption.
18.) 24 Apr 2024 10:03:08
Ed002, no one knows for sure as it's all just speculation and accusation. But if i was to start digging, i would start with referees who go to Saudi Arabia and UAE, only to return and immediately officiate prem clubs linked to those nations. I would also investigate 'insider trading' in the betting industry. Is it coincidental that Sly's pundits fail to speak out about the heinous decisions week in and week out, and that same organisation is heavily invested in gambling? We all know about players taking money to throw matches and gambling on the outcomes, would it not be feasible for this to go higher up the chain? There's buffoons that run things on a daily basis in all walks of life. Too many screwups and they get replaced. That happens in every single industry on the planet except politics and football.
19.) 24 Apr 2024 14:10:31
So who is paying enough of them?
12 Apr 2024 15:35:31
It was a very disappointing display last night, tactically outsmarted, Anfield sounding like a graveyard, and it seemed players were just not up for it. Hat's off to Atalanta though for taking full advantage of that - can only beat what's in front of you, and they certainly whooped our behinds. Credit to Gakpo who's had a bad patch, but seemed to be one of the only getting out of first gear.
But there's still another leg to go, and we have overturned far worse results. Liverpool have a knack of finding that extra bit of magic on European nights, in recent time Dortmund and of course Barcelona springs to mind. Let's go full throttle. A quick goal and who knows what might happen. It ain't over just yet!
If there is a silver lining to be found, this might have been the kick up the backside we need. A true earful like this has been coming for a while. Let's hope Jurgen and the players wake up for this last stretch of the season, and let's show them all that we're still in the run, we need a reaction from this!
On a side note, can we please hide away Gomez' shooting boots. What started as an encouraging thought and seemingly supporter's and Gomez' biggest wet dream, has now become a bit of a dead meme.
1.) 12 Apr 2024 15:56:15
3-0 down but few willing to bet against us getting through.
We are Liverpool and that means a hell of a lot.
2.) 12 Apr 2024 16:35:34
I’m going for a 4-1 win for Liver In the return leg and seal the deal in extra time.
3.) 12 Apr 2024 16:48:50
Verdo - I would certainly bet against us going through. No chance (screenshot this and beat me over the head with it if we win next week :) .
This is not Barcelona at Anfield and that miraculous turnaround. The second leg is away, we're bang out of form, can't keep a clean sheet and need about 20 efforts on goal for every goal scored.
If we can hopefully muster something for the remainder of the season, it's going to be all in on the league now. Europa League has gone.
4.) 12 Apr 2024 19:04:48
Does anyone else think that by not having the banners last night, subdued the crowd which in turn had an effect on the team.
5.) 12 Apr 2024 17:58:51
We’ve gone from mentality monsters to tsimikas over hit cross has affected everyone’s mentality and performance in one night.
On the Anfield crowds criticism why didn’t those who are criticising create more atmosphere themselves.
6.) 12 Apr 2024 18:33:01
Bit disappointed JK didn’t own the tactical blunders. He was completely outthought but sought to infer the issues laid everywhere else. Not a disaster and we’re not out of it, but sometimes be nice to hear when he owns some of the problems created.
7.) 12 Apr 2024 19:45:29
Ashy no mate. Crowd were in good voice before the game and even up to about 10 mins in. I can take the lads losing but they really looked like they were in cruise control and that showed to the crowd.
We started the Jota song and numerous others but it was hard to stay enthused when the players looked far from it.
Only criticism of the crowd for me were the ones who left early but I suppose that’s their rights.
8.) 12 Apr 2024 20:12:44
JK, tsimikas did more than that, for the second goal, I thought he was in the crowd protesting the 2% he left that much space.
9.) 12 Apr 2024 20:39:36
Stuie he was awful mate. But Kelleher didn’t let it go under his body because of Tsimikas. And we were even worse 2nd half when he was off the pitch.
If the players were that awful because there was no flags then mentality monsters they are not.
10.) 12 Apr 2024 23:43:30
I thought the Utd games were the kick up the backside for us, season might be over before these kicks up the backside take effect.
11.) 13 Apr 2024 00:40:02
RR - sounds like the odds are against us. I like our chances.
12.) 13 Apr 2024 11:35:37
Mcgoveb, we were still the better team for large portions of both the FA cup game and the one at old trafford and were sat with more of a feeling that we should've won both.
This one was just pure annihilation from top till bottom. I'm just hopeful we'll see a reaction to it.
17 Dec 2023 22:39:33
I seem to have chosen my username before realising the sheer nonsense people on here spout. The entitlement is bursting through my screen like an C.V. C.V., not even the most capable firewall could ever protect me.
With all the s*** going on in this world, the amount of toxicity even logging into this site contaminates you with is so embarrassing, I sometimes forget that we're fellow supporters of the same club.
Fine, it wasn't the best of games. Some players weren't at their best. At the same time, another team consisting of 11 players actually ran around on the field today, almost as if the game is supposed to be about 22 players fighting for each their team, not just a one man team of 11 players kicking the ball into an empty net. A shock, I know. It was a derby. These games are as unpredictable as a summer day in Wales, one moment you're in your swimsuit, the next you're wrapped in a thermal blanket with a flask of hot tea, hats, gloves and a 7-day survival kit.
Step down from your entitled pedestals, stop jerking off to your own obsessive ideas that hating everything is in any way a constructive way to lead life, take a moment to appreciate 2nd spot, start supporting your team and your players, and get a grib.
1.) 17 Dec 2023 22:58:04
Spot on mate, some of these people need to get another pastime as supporting a football team clearly isn’t for them.
2.) 17 Dec 2023 23:58:15
Good post mate.
3.) 17 Dec 2023 23:06:36
Quality post. Right on point too.
4.) 18 Dec 2023 03:25:51
Return of the Superfan, it seems. It is possible to support your team through thick and thin and also call out where we were poor.
We lacked intensity and creativity and were toothless in the final third. We created almost no clearcut chances against one of the worst Utd teams of the past 2 decades who were missing 8 first teamers.
We should be beating teams like that. Its not entitlement. Its the same kind of expectation that we would have against a Championship side or a European minnow.
Im not buying the excuse that they are always up for this game or Utd is always a tough match. They were weak and absolutely rubbish for 99% of the game. We just couldn't capitalise on a game we should have won comfortably.
5.) 18 Dec 2023 06:41:15
Idreamofgini - people don’t crawl out of their caves to just point out deficiencies as a sense of duty to the club. They do it with the insinuation that there need to be sweeping changes from coaching staff to management to ownership to government to the universe.
I exaggerate obviously, but this is where the line is.
6.) 18 Dec 2023 06:56:39
Sorry Faithinworks but i've just been pointing out deficiencies and im not calling for sweeping changes to the club. I just want our team to become more clinical. We have a talented side that should put teams like Utd to the sword yet we have trouble hitting the proverbial barn door.
7.) 18 Dec 2023 07:46:22
Faithworks has zero ability to recognise valid critiques. It’s always ride the moral high ground for some sense of personal gratification. The team have been substandard lately, particularly the finishing. If that doesn’t warrant critique, then football ain’t for you either.
8.) 18 Dec 2023 07:44:42
When did football become emotionless for some fans?
9.) 18 Dec 2023 08:40:22
@IDreamOfGin Quality post. Right on point too.
@JK23 It’s always the way. It’s okay to be blinkered to any problems but unfortunately the super positive fans who feel nothing is wrong no matter the result or performance - have a superiority complex over any fan that shows any sort of criticism. Apparently those that show emotions are less of a fan and don’t support the club.
10.) 18 Dec 2023 08:52:00
This post clearly isn't about not being able to give critique where critique is warranted. It is very clearly a post to those throwing their toys out the pram. Expecting to beat every team, and then crying like man-children, calling out the whole club, slating and giving s*** even to the players who has been putting in the fight, just to fit their own narratives of negativity - that is not emotion, that is pure entitlement, pure toxicity.
11.) 18 Dec 2023 10:13:37
It is perfectly possible to be appreciative of where the club is while at the same time, recognise the glaring issues and concerns people have with the way the team is operating on a game by game basis.
The issue for me is that people go to the extreme on either side whenever it suits them and go OTT on either count as if football is some kind of binary phenomenon that has NO grey area nor perspective. When we complain about the inverted system being useless and unnecessary as an opinion, some people respond shouting us down by telling us to keep it moving cos we are top of the league so by speaking on a glaring issue (s), we are somehow calling Klopp clueless or no longer worthy fans? That's the part that needs to change, IMO.
12.) 18 Dec 2023 10:24:38
Alonso this is going go sound like a high horse post but I don’t care.
I blame sky and streaming. Since that came in football is like a tv programme to lots of fans. The game finishes and they switch channel and that’s it done for them or another week.
Also fans are being priced out of match day tickets so lots of match day fans are there for their tourist day out and don’t sing because they don’t know the songs or are too busy on their phones posting to social media.
Look back to the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s the stadiums would be bouncing and the atmosphere would be electric from 30 mins before kick off to the final whistle.
No doubt’s lots of posters who watch games on tv or stream will read this and have their knives out for me but this isn’t aimed at the majority of them because football is a for everyone and they clearly care and love the club.
This post is aimed at the fans who seem to show zero emotion to any game and then tell the rest of us how we should and shouldn’t feel to be a better fan.
I left Anfield yesterday gutted and so disappointed and frustrated that we didn’t get the win against our biggest rival.
If I ever start to feel emotionless before, during or after a game then that’s the day I’ll stop watching my beloved club.
13.) 18 Dec 2023 11:22:18
IDreamOfGin, I agree with all you have said not just about the game, but about this whole "super fan" topic and all that. On the game, I agree that it was super frustrating and painful to watch us completely fluff our lines creatively and in the final third cos the decision-making and all that. Even worse, we had a chance to put some decent distance btw us and City (who are still the team to beat, IMO) and again, we missed that chance vs a team that really were there for the taking, had we had our creativity and finishing on point. We need to do better and we can all agree on that.
On the other topic and I mentioned this, it seems there is too much going on in the extremes of the topic and that is what i hurting the debate. It feels like being OTT is the way to go these days, sadly. People seem unable to assess things in a measured way anymore and need to be OTT in their approach to everything re: Liverpool. Cos now you gave IMO a very measured assessment/ critique of the game and of our performance YET people may now think you are no longer worthy of being an LFC fan anymore cos you dared speak your mind. Wait, is that what it is now? Sorry, Ain't having that.
14.) 18 Dec 2023 12:53:03
Guys it completely fine to get emotional and criticise the team/ players when they are playing poorly - no bother with that whatsoever.
Think the op refers to some of the OTT reactions and posts we see when we have a poor game - most from usernames that we haven't really seen before. Look the fact is some poster only come on to comment and criticise when we have a poor game, you never see these guys when we win - live chat is the same, same posters every game then we lose/ draw and a pile of new posters are on criticising everything and everyone and calling 'Klopp out' lol - just ignore them as best you can, we've all been on here long enough to recognise the regular posters and it's easy to see that we get frustrated at losses/ poor performances etc but some of the toxicity is wild - just ignore and scroll on lads, some of those psts are just irritating to read lol.
15.) 18 Dec 2023 13:51:17
United were shocking so were we. Looked like both teams had been out having Xmas drinks Saturday night. I predict we might give Arsenal a good beating, hopefully todays game was a one off for the sake of football really. We move on.
16.) 18 Dec 2023 18:44:03
Frode - thank you for providing the example of the kind of over the top reaction that I am referring to.
idream - I get ya, and as I said in my reply I was exaggerating and obviously I don't mean every single person who says something negative is being over the top. It is noteworthy the ones who don't say anything but then pop up when we draw or lose
some interesting points being made tho. imo they get amplified and are presented as absolute and factual statements following a game we don't win.
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25 Apr 2024 07:38:54
I'd love to be added too Ed33 if possible mate.
{Ed033's Note - Lets Be Rational added to Liverpool live chat
23 Apr 2024 22:06:18
Ed02, by now it is such a big machinery and so much money is being thrown around, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
It might just be the unfairness of it all, that makes me and others take words like corruption and dictatorship and misconduct etc. in use. I don't claim to know everything that is happening, I'm not saying PGMOL are the literal meaning of a dictatorship, and I don't want to go all out on conspiracies that I don't know the half of. But I don't know a single supporter of football who isn't sick to death about the current status of the game, and the way rules are being bent and swept away to fit some of these absurd narratives. And I think that the fact that no one is happy about it, yet it only seems to get worse, there just just has to be some kind of sinister favouritism or fraudulence going on.
Maybe if the pundits and journalists, who's voices could have a big impact, weren't siding with these absurdities meanwhile being paid decent money (I'm not saying they're bribed), it would sit better with me. But the fact that money seem to at least have the possibility of playing a huge role in all of this, the word corruption is just what springs to mind.
Words hold a lot of power, and as I say, I think more drastic words need to be taken into use if anything needs to get better.
{Ed002's Note - So who is paying PGMOL to be corrupt?}
23 Apr 2024 21:21:51
Andy, I just think it's time to call it out in more drastic ways. If not, as I write, it is only get worse before it gets better.
Corruption is a strong word to use, it holds a lot of significance. Incompetence can more easily be swept under the carpet. It's all in the ways we challenge these decisions, and the words used simply hold a lot of power.
I don't necessarily call every decision corrupt - but the way PGMOL handles every case, openly make mistakes and then in secrecy make sure that no one is punished or held responsible, sweeping everything away, what else are we going to call it.
When you see the pundits and journalists being well paid by the mainstream to time and time again side with PGMOL, to not call out the glaringly obvious mistakes, I think corruption is a fair term to use. They are literally getting paid to take part in a machinery that decides who wins and who don't, a lot of economical structures rely on these decisions, and those keeping quiet only add to worsen the conditions.
As I write, not until especially the pundits and journalists grow a pair and quit their comfortable positions, will I trust it to get better.
{Ed002's Note - There is no corruption - an overused and misunderstood word. Who is paying them all off?}
21 Apr 2024 10:43:17
OP what I disagree about with your post is that you don't offer any perspective as to why people might be reacting as they do, more than just adding insult to them. I think what happens is that emotions get the better of us - some supporters more than others. And since we're on a forum where expressions and emotions are very much interpreted by our own minds and our own agenda, as well as not always coming off in the best way possible, it might come off as entitlement or lacking perspective. In truth I think the fairytale of Klopp and this Liverpool team, the hope of ending with four, the end of all of this - is what makes it so much more disappointing. It's the hope that kills ya.
I don't agree with the people saying we should sell half the team, or that we need to throw every player and coach under the bus. And I do believe that some people forget the perspective, and I honestly believe I see plenty of entitlement too, yes also on here - but just as well, it's the emotions running high and you can't take that out of the supporters. Why would you want to? You'd get Anfield sounding like the Etihad, this forum would be completely static and empty, banter wouldn't exist etc etc.
Hell, I might not often moan on here, but I've had my fair share of insults thrown at this team through this last month (and in general all the years of supporting this team) - it's the way football has always been, and this time around, it just all feels that much more disappointing. It's okay to look at what's in front of you and pointing out that it needs changing. Even Klopp himself has admitted it - and unfortunately, his battery died out about a month or two too early. But I think we all see it. Then we might all disagree on what exactly needs changing and why - but I believe most of us are now looking forward to the change. We just all show it differently.
13 Apr 2024 11:35:37
Mcgoveb, we were still the better team for large portions of both the FA cup game and the one at old trafford and were sat with more of a feeling that we should've won both.
This one was just pure annihilation from top till bottom. I'm just hopeful we'll see a reaction to it.