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04 Oct 2015 11:45:38
Does anyone have any info/theory re the reference to a mystery person having been bought a house for in formby on the BBC gossip page?
stoneage's banter posts with other poster's replies to stoneage's banter posts
19 Oct 2020 18:23:21
Hi Eds. Do you know if there are any ongoing talks to refine the VAR system? In particular- the offside rule?
The current system is not fit for purpose. The rule exists to prevent goal-hanging. Mane's position on Saturday was in no way an advantage and VAR has overruled a brilliant goal.
There was talk last year of making the lines thicker. Has that been dropped now? Personally, I would change the rule back to there being daylight between attacker/ defender, as this would at least represent a clear advantage.
Another thing I don't understand is why the VAR official has the 'draw lines'. Surely they should just click a dot on the last defender and the attacker's shoulder (or whatever), and the lines should auto-generate?
{Ed002's Note - They have done what they can by changing it to using the concept of a part of the body that a player can score with. Every week there is some level of controversy about it - there is no "thicker line or 2%" type ruling. The VAR official does not "draw the line" per se. You need to get over this - it is not a conspiracy against Liverpool. They are well aware there needs to be improvement in the system - but it will never be 100%. I have always contested that it was not the way forward, but I did go and look at the set up at Heathrow and it should suit the intended purpose. They will try and refine it but it will never be perfect. To me the issue right now is that the referees are not making use of the on pitch technologies to even look at simple replays - that is the solution I would prefer over VAR, and that is the solution one club has pressed for. For me, I would scratch VAR and let the referee see the replay and make a decision.}
1.) 19 Oct 2020 20:07:57
Totally agree with the Ed's view. What is happening now is its completely taking away decision making by the referee. The definition of a referee is 'an official who watches a game or match closely to ensure that the rules are adhered to and in sports to arbitrate on matters arising from the play'.
This did not happen on Saturday. The referee did not make the decision on the goal and he also didn't take action against Pickford, as I honestly think he was waiting on the decision on the offside from VAR and probably thought as VAR did not get him to look at the Pickford tackle maybe it wasn't relevant as it was offside. For the decisions that are as tight as they were Saturday if we are going to use video technology at least then let the referee review it again as when this has happened which is few and far between they generally then get it right.
2.) 19 Oct 2020 20:54:51
Personally I think if an offside decision can't be made within 10 seconds then it it's extremely close and the decision that was made on the field at the time should stand. They do something similar in both the NFL and Cricket.
3.) 19 Oct 2020 21:14:24
Thunderbird 2, I am with you as well. VAR has WAY too much time to come up with a decision esp. one that close to near non existent. It is like checking if a tackle warranted a penalty. If you have seen 4/ 5 replays and STILL cannot see evidence to overturn the call on the field then, the ruling 9penalty or not) on the field stands.
On the Mane goal or no goal, you could see the VAR operator working really hard to draw and re-draw the lines on the frames several times and even after that, NOBODY can still conclude it was clear-cut offside cos it was way too close.
In the NFL like you say, the Mane goal would have stood cos it was called a goal on the field and there was NOT enuff evidence to overturn it. That is what VAR should do in these situations.
4.) 19 Oct 2020 21:08:24
Ed02, maybe you can help me out here. I just watched a podcast where Melissa Reddy said that before VAR was implemented, she and some footie journalists had been invited to Stokley Park which is the national hub where all the VAR technology would be. She said that they had asked about how the off-side would be ruled upon.
They said that they were going to rule on offsides objectively and that it had to be black and white so it is either you are on or you are off, right? Here's the kicker. They then aid that we would do it this way BUT we do not have the technology to determine 100% if it can be judged that objectively.
Therefore, VAR is set up to check on offsides on a black and white basis YET openly admitting they do not have the tech. to determine it that way so what we currently have is that a HIGH bar has been set for VAR that the administrators themselves KNEW they could never meet. If this is the case then, it only explains the complete shambles we are seeing with VAR, coupled with the rank incompetence up and down the system. Could you pls, elaborate on this? Cheers, man.
{Ed002's Note - You can whine as much as uYou want because Liverpool may or may not have lost out this week. But the bottom line is they are trying their best. If Melissa Ready says that she was told that the knew they could never do it then she needs to stand up and make this clear to everyone. I am not aware of this position at all.}
5.) 19 Oct 2020 21:42:13
Thicker lines won't work as you are just moving the goalposts you'll still have someone a mm over the line at one point.
As ed says use the replays and imo leave it to the naked eye.
Offside with current technology won't be 100% accurate but it can definitely be improved on.
Fans want as many mistakes removed as possible, the game to flow and football to be the talking point.
6.) 19 Oct 2020 22:09:45
I've no issue whatsoever if a player is offside, even by a millimetre but it did seem to me that Mane's offside was taken from his elbow? Maybe there has been more evidence to prove other wise, but if it was his elbow then that amateurish to say the least.
7.) 19 Oct 2020 22:19:50
Hey Ed02, what's with the name calling and all that mess? Who is whining about what? Where in my post did I whine about the decision? I gave information that I learned from Ms. Reddy herself and asked you to comment on it to see if you knew anything about it and you now accuse me of whining?
If you did not want to comment about my post, you could have simply ignored it and moved on instead engaging in petty name calling and calling me a whiner, in effect. Good Grief! So one cannot ask you a simple question without you attacking the person personally, now? Good heavens!
{Ed002's Note - I am very much interested in what Melissa Ready has said as quoted by you. Nobody is letting go and the whining I s going on an on. It looks stupid now - the world class team is now a one horse town.}
8.) 19 Oct 2020 22:50:27
It's done now but it's natural for discussion to continue as both incidents could have huge impacts for the season.
On VAR, I'm with Ed that the refs should just use the monitors.
As for offside, I'd simply go with where feet are planted.
9.) 19 Oct 2020 23:14:44
Sorry if Iv missed something in other posts. Not complaining just want to clarify? What was the reason for the offside decision? Looked clear as day on to me? Hearing chatter about an elbow but you can’t be offside with a part of the body you can’t score with right? More than anything else I’m very confused.
{Ed002's Note - There is no rationale for inches here or there. Move on.}
10.) 20 Oct 2020 02:35:02
For me offside has to be offside or not offside. I don't think you can muck around with trying to make a subjective ruling in an objective decision.
The thing that gets me is how inconsistent the lines are, where they're drawn etc lol the offside line for Mane, flat out looks like it's on an angle lol I think it be good to change the lines to be focused on only the feet.
11.) 20 Oct 2020 06:38:57
Faith, you cannot have that if the technology available cannot guarantee it completely and the FA knew it. That is what Melissa Reddy has said. It is like you are setting a very high bar knowing full well you do NOT have the means to ever reach it. If she is correct then don’t b surprised with the absolute shambles you are seeing.
Now I just read that the VAR guy did not even know that he could recommend that Pickford could be sent off hence, did not even look at the tackle on VVD. Now If I and footie fans all over, know the rules of officiating more than a ref does then we are all done for.
12.) 19 Oct 2020 23:53:22
Ed2, I don’t think it’s just Liverpool fans whining about VAR though is it? You’re right we need to let go and move on, no point moaning about a result that we can’t change. The fact is though VAR is spoiling the game and is not working like it was meant too and something needs to change. Football for me and many other fans I’ve spoken too isn’t what it used to be and I for one don’t enjoy it anymore.
Why is it in some leagues refs are watching replays and making decisions with the aid of VAR and we’re seeing VAR bad decisions in nearly every game?
{Ed002's Note - No, the fans of other clubs whine as well, but the Liverpool fans simply go on and on and on and repeat the same thing over and over again. The site will become unusable.
13.) 20 Oct 2020 07:41:17
Just go back to the old methods for offside and or let the ref watch the replay as ed2 says. No one is whining ed2, it's called discussion, last I checked that was what this site was for? Thanks.
{Ed002's Note - It is whining - that is all the Liverpool fans do.}
14.) 20 Oct 2020 08:36:01
Surely the litmus test for VAR, solely offsides, is to compare how many instances A) good goal has been ruled out/ B) how many too close to call cases there were/ C) how many offsides that wouldn’t have been picked up by a linesman were identified. If A and B far outweigh C then the system is broken and needs to be abolished until a better one exists. This thicker lines/ elbow talk is futile and a waste of everyone’s time.
I only monitor decisions involving Liverpool because I do not watch other teams play. I cannot believe we are the only team’s supporters debating the VARce?
It would be some stat compilation but it would be transparent and would maybe result in a more enjoyable spectacle next season. It doesn’t look like the technology would improve with a sticking plaster approach. It needs more than a patch update to my unprofessional eye.
15.) 20 Oct 2020 08:36:41
We are so contradictory as fans. One minute we want them to make the right call and get the guns out if they get it wrong. Then they are taking too long.
Before var we had exactly the same issue with refs every week.
We should just go back to refs and assistants. Maybe the ref can see a replay if he's not sure. What'd ghd point in a the training they go through?
16.) 20 Oct 2020 11:35:13
Ed, out of interest what’s the busiest site? Also what other sites get a lot of interaction?
{Ed002's Note - The Liverpool site is the busiest - the Scottish sites are also very busy. Manchester United is also very busy. Arsenal is periodically busy and the West Ham, Aston Villa and Wolves sites have got much busier over the summer.}
17.) 20 Oct 2020 14:12:56
Robbie, that is not the point. We are talking about an overall system that is set up to fail from top to bottom and it is killing football and football officiating as a whole. THAT is the issue here, IMO. Ask yourself this: How is it possible to create a system that is supposed to make things better YET it is making things worse? That should tell you that it is the way it is implemented.
Everybody is getting done by the way VAR is implemented and this pathetic idea (not that you made the point) of saying "Oh well, it happens to everyone so why bother moaning about it" whereas these same people will bitch about it even louder when the system screws them, is the absolute worst.
It is like saying that cos everyone suffered a break-in in a neighborhood hence, there is no point calling the police to investigate the issue. Really? Nah, I a not having that. If people don't speak out, nothing will change. People never spoke out about poor refereeing in the PL for yeas and now, look at it. A dumpster fire of epic proportions. There are several things that can be done to improve the situation for all clubs concerned BUT the people in charge seem to like the constant controversies and hence, will do NOTHING. That s where my prob. is.
05 Oct 2020 02:41:13
Look at it this way: to be the first reigning champions ever to concede 7 goals, first you have to be reigning champions ;)
1.) 05 Oct 2020 07:36:31
Class.
2.) 05 Oct 2020 08:48:48
Sunderland v Arsenal 7-2 has happened before apparently (1953?) 😂.
3.) 05 Oct 2020 09:09:57
Love it, OP.
08 Sep 2020 20:47:03
Ed001's tactical analyses are second to none, and one of the reasons we're here.
Harveys Man Bun - Just wanted to say I think your analyses are spot on too and I enjoy reading your posts. Keep up the good work.
Did you used to have a different log in name, I can't tell if you replaced an existing poster?
Shout out to Plain Bread, wherever you are- hope you're well Adam.
{Ed001's Note - wow thank you stoneage.}
1.) 09 Sep 2020 00:22:35
Between HMB and Plain Bread no wonder I'm putting on weight.
2.) 09 Sep 2020 06:38:31
Cheers mate. Been an avid reader for a decade and you have been one of my favourite contributors in recent years. I really appreciate that.
3.) 09 Sep 2020 17:56:51
Obviously forgot me there stone age. No worries mate, just think fowler celebration in the 90s!
08 Sep 2020 20:50:54
Just a thought- there's always plenty of discussion re what constitutes a 'legend' for LFC, with lots of debate regarding it depending on whether they won a cup, or which cup they won etc.
Just wanted to throw my hat in the ring and suggest that the word HERO could be used a whole lot more instead.
Georginio Wijnaldum, for example, probably not an LFC legend, but a hero of the Champions League, 2019.
1.) 08 Sep 2020 23:32:29
I'd disagree stoneage, he was instrumental in bringing our 6th European Cup and the pl title after 30 years. For me he is an absolute legend.
2.) 09 Sep 2020 00:23:45
Gini is a TOTAL HERO but a legend no sorry.
3.) 09 Sep 2020 09:38:51
Legend has to be someone who will be remembered for a long time. The likes of Hansen, Souness, Dalglish and Rush. Everyone knows Barnes, Whelan and Aldridge. Everyone knows Hughes, Keegan, Clemence. Everyone knows Yeats, Callaghan, St. John. Everyone will still remember Gerrard, Carragher and Fowler in 20 years. They are legends. Players who transcend their era and never get forgotten.
None of the current crop can be defined as legends yet until they retire and in 10 years we are still talking about them and in 30 years people still remember them. Henderson and Trent are the only shoe-ins for me, because they'll both play for Liverpool for over a decade by the time they retire.
4.) 09 Sep 2020 09:39:44
I was at the home game against Barcelona when he came off the bench to score 2 goals and we went on to win the champions league. He then played 37 league games in the year we won the league for the first time in 30 years. TOTAL LEGEND for me Barry.
5.) 09 Sep 2020 10:09:43
Ok, so years ago we had a plethora of legends, some bigger than others but we were dominant in all competitions for years and we had a multitude of really great players.
Moving onto now I think there is an arguement to say that these players should be in the "legend" category. Granted they haven't won any near as much but the did break a 30 year wait. That was some achievement if we are honest.
I only hope they don't think its job done, but as Harvey has already said, you only become a legend in years to come, not now. Work to do still.
6.) 09 Sep 2020 11:04:15
100% Rover.
7.) 09 Sep 2020 17:57:11
A legend must be dead.
{Ed025's Note - gini was a decent midfielder and thats how 99%of the footballing world will remember him robbie, you dont half get carried away you reds with your own players mate...but you do make me laugh..
8.) 09 Sep 2020 19:31:24
I think it's those two Barcelona goals ed025.
{Ed025's Note - 2 goals does not really make a player a "HERO" or a "LEGEND "mate, a good solid player but not in the top 200 midfielders to have graced the premiership im afraid robbie..
12 Dec 2019 18:28:31
Hi Eds. I've read through the posts re Minamino and seen no mention of work permits. I know that the rules are different in Austria and Germany, hence the higher number of Asian players in those leagues.
Would you foresee any problem with Minamino getting a WP to play in the Premier League? Is he an international player, or is he sufficiently rated in the FIFA World Rankings? Thanks.
{Ed002's Note - It will be down to what price Liverpool pay for him but I would expect it will be sufficient.}
1.) 12 Dec 2019 18:46:15
Thanks, Mister Number 2.
2.) 12 Dec 2019 18:46:15
Thanks, Mister Number 2.
3.) 12 Dec 2019 19:26:09
Does this look like it’s happening 002? I get very suspect when it’s all over the press.
{Ed002's Note - I understand it will happen subject to a medical and a Work Permit.}
4.) 12 Dec 2019 19:47:05
Happy days, he looks a really good prospect.
And, probably unlike Brewster, may play a role in the title run-in?
The new Coutinho?
5.) 12 Dec 2019 20:09:28
Looked a good little player to me. I have go say, every time he got the ball he looked dangerous.
Will it spell the end for Adam lallana? Similar types. Mimomina looks like the lallana of 5 years ago with a better shot.
6.) 12 Dec 2019 21:09:36
Ok cheers. Work permit a potential stumbling block? We’ve had a few issues recently.
7.) 12 Dec 2019 22:16:10
while watching the game all i was thinking is "dam, imagine if he played for us! "
8.) 13 Dec 2019 00:59:25
He is number 9 for Japan i don't think there will be wp issues.
9.) 13 Dec 2019 05:36:04
Reminds me of yossi.
30 Apr 2020 04:45:30
Port- count again smartypants 🤦♂️
What would your team be anyway?
King- why would VVD not be good at 5 aside. Positionally sound, no?
29 Apr 2020 20:52:08
I'd like to see it resolved by a 5-aside tournament over a weekend.
Representing LFC:
ALISSON
VAN DYKE
FIRMINO
SALAH MANE.
17 Mar 2020 20:08:18
The stoneage!
Seriously, if I could have a superpower it would definitely be to time travel. I'd aim for the end of the Neolithic, the start of the Bronze Age, when we were starting to build stone circles, and find out what the motivation was.
09 Mar 2020 20:01:57
It's not like there won't be millions of people on the streets outside Anfield anyway!
09 Mar 2020 19:59:38
Wouldn't it be fun if they introduced a rule where you could sub a player on just to take free kicks?
01 Oct 2020 05:13:47
We’re getting the band back together! :)
01 Oct 2020 02:46:51
MK Scouser- is that you Adam?
Have you moved back?
29 Sep 2020 15:32:37
We could play exactly the same, but if at the start of the game, rather than 4-3-3, they showed LFC set up as 4-4-2, with Firmino in the middle and he had a 7 on his back no one would have a problem with it.
22 Sep 2020 02:05:08
Great idea! 😆.
21 Sep 2020 20:03:28
How about two different penalty spots depending on the severity of the offence.
If you are punishing a clear goal-scoring opportunity, then use the traditional 12 yard one. Then have an 18 yard penalty spot for lesser offences, or offences deemed as possibly accidental.
I like a good old rule change, just to keep everyone on their toes!