11 Jun 2024 21:56:57
The team last season suffered a lot of injuries and if they had been available, i believe we would have won the League.
We have a team as good as any team in the premier league we are losing a couple of players soon but they were always injured and missed long periods so the team may need three or four players, but there are four new players who have had one season with us.
I would also say if you do not have expectations or your new manager has no expectations, then we may as well invite Roy Hodgson back to run the club. I am reading people happy with a third or fourth placed finish this next season, so that is your expectations for Liverpool. so if we don't get third or fourth and finish below that, you would accept that then because we have a new manager?
I don't think that way, i expect this manager to go for the premier league from day one after all he has won a league and it may be in a different league, but he has the experience of winning it.
11 Jun 2024 22:26:12
We were the third best team in the league last season and we finished third. Unlike Arsenal and City almost every game we played was in the balance going into the last 10 minutes. We didn't put teams away when we were on top and too often we conceded the first goal.
I hope to see a title challenge next season but I expect us to finish top four. Expecting a new manager in a new league to get the 90+ points it would take to win the league is unrealistic and is setting him up to fail and yourself up for disappointment.
11 Jun 2024 22:49:07
What is Slots assistant called then? I need to know who I’m going to Blame when we’re playing total crip now that Pep Lijnders is gone.
11 Jun 2024 23:50:28
We were third best last year and I can’t see that we’ll fare much better this coming season if the rumours are true of a very quiet transfer window. Third or fourth at best for us. City will have the title wrapped up by April unless by some miracle the FA gets its act together and their charge’s stick which would derail their season.
12 Jun 2024 00:28:02
Nah, we can carry on blaming Lijnders for a couple of seasons - his legacy (and his book is still being read in secret by some of the squad trying to figure out what an introverted full back is …) .
I think, on our day, we had as good a starting eleven as anybody. Jurgen reckoned we played our best game against City in his time here and we had them on the run. I don’t think we had the best squad in the league and I think injuries (to players in form, like Jones and Jota) broke our rhythms and we were never really sure what our starting eleven was. Plus Jurgen’s announcement had a toll on confidence and morale. Confidence also took a tonking losing the cup game to United - bitter blow to take and we never really recovered from that.
All that said, we do have the makings of a very good squad which is nowhere near the finished article. I think we are - assuming Slot knows what he’s about, which a lot of observers (some of them even informed) seem to think he is - capable of kicking on and doing well. A couple of starter quality signings for the holding role in midfield and a left sided defender, a closed window with the TAA and Mo dramas sorted out one way or another @nd we should kick on and, don’t forget we have Wednesday nights to look forward to this season.
{Ed001's Note - and yet while we had injuries was our best period. So not sure how they broke our rhythm? What broke our rhythm was the first choice players returning and the intensity dropping along with them as they followed instructions to play with more 'control'. So yes, we can carry on blaming Lijnders for his tactical instructions were a massive part of the problem.}
12 Jun 2024 02:11:07
I think we are probably agreeing - the rhythm that I was talking about was liar in the latter part of the season and ironically it was 2hen the ‘big’ names were the ones returning. I hadn’t considered the ‘Pep factor’ and attributed most of the decline to a lack of confidence based on Jurgen’s decision to go. I suspect there were elements of both . Either way, the end result was disappointing after so much (probably unexpected) promise for most of the season.
{Ed001's Note - I do agree Klopp's decision to go will have affected them, but only once it started to fall apart. Before then it would have been a reason to keep going. Once it went away from them, it becomes a burden to bear.}
12 Jun 2024 07:41:24
Jurgen was the man in charge, not Ljinders. The buck stops with Klopp. Pep can be blamed for the tactics but it was Klopps decision to run with them.
12 Jun 2024 08:06:33
Remember the name Hulshoff! People will be slagging him off in a few months, just like folk are still blaming Ljinders. For gawd sake.
12 Jun 2024 08:32:33
Simple fact is, we were not good enough. We also had a pretty poor record against the top 6 sides, you can't win the league unless you beat your rivals.
12 Jun 2024 08:24:40
I'd imagine the target would be to try and win the league and CL as we aren't really the club or have the players who just turn up for participation.
Aiming to win the league is obviously very different to actually winning it though.
During Klopps tenure we never ever set up or played for a draw which I'd love see continue moving forward. If you're trying to win every game then we will be in amongst the mix come the end of the season.
Trouble is we have City and Arsenal who will also be going out trying to win it and are top class teams with financial muscle.
Either way i'm looking forward to next season.
12 Jun 2024 08:51:30
I think realistically top 4 finish and a cup would be a fair expectation for most LFC fans. The team will need to adapt to a new formation, tactics and relationship with the coaching staff and that will take time. Arne Slot will need time.
Plus a few players leaving and a few new additions arriving so all that will take at least a few months, however I do feel the team will will be comfortable with their playing identity towards the end of the season and the following season is when we can confidently challenge for the title.
Let's remember when new managers' came in and their first end of season finishes:
Gerard Houllier - 7th
Rafa Benitez - 5th
Roy Hodgson/ Kenny Dalglish - 6th
Brendan Rodgers - 7th
Jurgen Klopp - 8th
The main advantage we have is that the team is more or less settled and no massive re-build needs to be done which the above managers had to do.
12 Jun 2024 08:55:00
Injuries are part of the game and we can't blame them for us not winning the League. I think we were third best last season and as Thunderbird said, we didn't seem to be as dominant as City and Arsenal were throughout the season.
Also, we'll never know what would have happened had Salah, TAA, Robertson etc not returned from injury but I doubt it would have made the difference between finishing third and finishing third because we were the third best side.
And I think the two sides that finished above us played with more control than we did.
12 Jun 2024 09:16:57
LiverpoolFC8:
His name is Spike, Spike Hasselhoff.
12 Jun 2024 09:19:52
Ed001 is absolutely spot on, our intensity dropped when the first team players came back
Maybe some should get to a game, then you’ll see exactly what ed001 is saying regarding the slow, controlled Laborious build up with no width and a congested midfield. Only when you watch the team live can you see the true picture of the game.
I was at Spurs away for Klopp’s first game and it’s like chalk and cheese what we were watching for the last few seasons.
Drogie.
12 Jun 2024 09:26:10
Sorry, I meant to say we'll never know if the first team players returning would have been the difference between finishing third and finishing first.
12 Jun 2024 09:32:54
Last season is gone, let’s look forward not backwards.
12 Jun 2024 09:50:37
We rode our luck in several games prior to our capitulation. Forest away, Brighton at home, to name just a couple. We rarely won comfortably all season and, like Drogie, I was fortunate enough to be at most of the home games. I don't buy that intensity dropped when first teasers came back, which led to our downfall, but we're all entitled to our opinion.
12 Jun 2024 10:14:40
Problem is the opposition know Darwins strength is giving him space so that's not going to change anytime soon.
If he improves the timing of his runs, composure whilst finishing then he would be unplayable.
12 Jun 2024 12:18:30
Pretty sure most fans are able to notice the slow laborious build-up from the comfort of their armchair too in fairness.
12 Jun 2024 13:25:37
Don't we have to play slow- or patient- build up football when the opposition plays deep and defends?
For me, a bad run was always going to happen and it happened when some of the first team players came back.
I don't agree that Elliott playing instead of Salah or Gomez instead of TAA or Robertson helps us win or go closer to winning the League.
12 Jun 2024 16:10:31
The thing that confused me a bit with Liverpool last year was we seemed to be doing the sort of press baiting very deep build up that the likes of Brighton like to do, but when we were actually pressed in our own half we didn’t seem to be able to handle playing through it the way Brighton are drilled to do, against Atalanta we simply crumbled after conceding and everybody looked so nervous on the ball (though to be fair we got a few excellent chances early on in the first half because of good movement from several players dummying their markers and wriggling loose to break through the lines, Elliott especially was very good in the opening exchanges doing this at the midway line), every time a team actually pressures us we looked distraught, so I don’t know what the team was actually trained to do?
Even though slot himself loves to build up from very deep and bait the press and even though he also likes to invert one full back, his team is actually trained to effectively move very fast up the field when the opposition actually takes the bait, so I expect that our build up will actually look like it makes sense next year, rather than being a sort of mishmash of de zerbi ball and klopp’s more direct full backs staying wide and spraying the ball quickly out wide style.
12 Jun 2024 16:24:28
I’d also like to add that the way Trent was used as an inverted fullback wasn’t necessarily the biggest problem, there appear to me to be a whole bunch of ways in which a fullback inverts, in slot’s system geertruida moves into midfield to simply create an overload in midfield as well as make up the numbers in the center so they don’t get played through the middle when they lose the ball, rather than take time on the ball to play the quarterback launching the perfect ball upfield like Trent
I think Trent playing that role (as well as not having a very well designed way to fall back into a decent defensive shape if we lost the ball in transition), with him tasked with picking out the perfect ball into the forwards, just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense sometimes, he gets slated for losing the ball when it doesn’t come off and then gets slated again for not getting back into position, I get that the team wants to make best use of the best progressive passer probably in world football, but surely there is another way and surely there are other ways this team can create? If Trent does play the geertruida role in slot’s system, he won’t be playing as a quarterback but will be asked to move up in passing triangles, so it looks like slot will have to change the way his system works to accommodate his glorious long passing or Trent will have to move upfield finally
Was wondering about your thoughts regarding this subject, ed001.
{Ed001's Note - I find myself agreeing with you completely, but I hope Slot will look at the squad and see that Bradley is such a good wing-back that it makes more sense to allow him to drive on from wide areas and play Trent as a normal midfielder. You are right that an inverted full-back can be made to work, particularly by understanding how to revert, which Lijnders never seemed to understand. Nor how to control the play for that matter, which he seemed to think simply came down to having more bodies in a particular area, with no understanding or appreciation for space and movement etc.
I can see how it can work, but it doesn't make the best use of either Trent or Bradley. Both offer far more threat, when playing at full-back, by getting down the flank. Geertruida, that he used in Feyenoord, was a more defensive player who was capable at centre-back. Neither Trent nor Bradley are adept there and it would be shoehorning players into a system, rather than adapting the system to make the most of the abilities of the players that he has at his disposal.}
12 Jun 2024 16:53:35
Completely in agreement there, Ed, neither Conor nor Trent can or should play the Geertruida role the way that slot has designed it, but here’s hoping slot has the sense to adapt his system to use the qualities of both of them in the starting eleven…
I hate to always slate ljinders, it makes him out to be a scapegoat, but I do think it’s ridiculous that we were once the deadliest and fastest team in world football in transition, and that went out the window once our tactics basically became let the other team assume their shape once we get the ball, and have Trent try to hit a hallelujah pass with laser precision.
{Ed001's Note - it is not just slating Lijnders, as Klopp was the one who chose to let him take charge of tactics. That is why it is so difficult to criticise, as Klopp brought so much joy. But the system didn't work and was badly organised. You can see why Lijnders didn't succeed as a head coach at first, he has a lot to learn. I just hope his ego does not stop him from realising that and from making the adjustments to his system that are so desperately needed. He is still young in coaching terms, he has lots of time to alter and adapt his approach.}
12 Jun 2024 16:57:23
Nobody held Klopp to ransom demanding him to accept the ubbish tactics proposed by Lijnders. He made that choice and that's on him, not Lijnders.
Now there are a lot of things that hurt us down the stretch and as I've said, many of us knew the issues we had from the off and when those don't get fixed and when Klopp's loyalty kicks in relying on senior players too much, that does not help when the team eventually hits the wall.
As @WDW said, we have a really good team on paper BUT they have to play the tactics that suit them which IMO, is the press-high tempo style cos we simply do NOT have the players to play slow, possessive footie and if there is one "good" thing with Klopp going, is that he has take Lijnders and his wretched style with him. It is what it is.
12 Jun 2024 21:00:41
I think another point to consider is the change in personell and being used to the players your playing with plus some/ most being new to premier league football, Look how many times we went 1-0 down, so we're on the back foot early and trying to get into games with new personell. We didn't do too bad tbf but if you remember we did also go 1-0 down fairly often with our previous personell. Previously I was always confident we'd turn it around, I used to say to my fellow watching mates (whether LFC fans or not) "not to worry, we are comeback kings"! More often than not we did with the likes of Mane, Firmino, Salah, Hemdo, Wijnaldum, Milner, Van Dijk Matip, Robbo Becker et all. Last year going 1-0 down, Like I said we did fairly well but I was never as confident of turning i around as before but i think that could be largely due to new players playing together and of which some being new o prem league football. Remeber the time we used to fly out of the blocks, sometimes we would go 1 down but didn't seem to really matter. Conseding the first goal this year so often hindered overall end of season acheivments IMO, I'd llike to see that resolved next season now that my fingers nails have grown back!
13 Jun 2024 08:59:27
Good point about the personnel, fezza.
This team's defence, midfield and frontline are all weaker than the ones that won the League and CL.