04 Jun 2024 16:16:30
World Class players like Alisson, Salah and Virgil can play well into there 30's. We should not be rushing to bomb them out.
Looks at what Benzema, Kroos and Modric did for Real Madrid. Look at what Iniesta, Xavi and Pique did for Barca. Look at what Neuer, Muller and Lewandowski did for Bayern. Look at what Giggs, Scholes and Neville did for United. Look at what Terry, Lampard and Cech did for Chelsea.
World class players endure the test of time and when you think they're down and out they reinvent themselves and keep coming back. You can't compare these 3 with Henderson, Firmino, Fabinho, Mane and Milner. They were great players but Salah, Virgil and Alisson are a level above. They always stood out to a frighteningly consistent level.
We should definitely be planning for the future by bringing in the right players to phase them out gradually and learn from them. But these are the kind of players you happily let retire on your books because they're genuinely that good. Look at the send off 34 year old Kroos got the other night. Does anybody really want to sit there and tell me they should've got rid of him 2 years ago? Does anybody genuinely believe Salah, Alisson and Virgil don't deserve that same loyalty and respect?
Personally I'd contract them all to 35 years old so they can help bed in the next generation and the new era, and then let them go out as legends. World class players always find a way to keep rising to the top and when they're not up to it anymore, they will let you know themselves.
04 Jun 2024 16:58:08
Great post.
04 Jun 2024 16:59:32
Allison is the only one I’d absolutely contract to 35, I’m not entirely that VVD has the legs anymore and it’s plain to see that Salah doesn’t. The players you cite are exceptions to the rule and additionally, were surrounded by world class players in their teams. It would be difficult to argue the same in our situation.
Additionally those teams don’t operate on a hand to mouth basis and didn’t need to sell to be able to adequately replace, which we would. I’d say contracting Salah to 35 gives us a Ozil situation that Arsenal had, where they had a once great player on huge wages, unable to contribute as his legs has gone, but on such terms as they couldn’t sell as he was past his best and couldn’t do anything but let him wind his contract down. Sentimentality does not win trophies.
04 Jun 2024 17:15:02
VV, don’t talk nonsense. It’s nothing to do with sentiment. Salah just finished a season in which he had an AFCON and a hamstring injury with 25 goals and 13 assists. 38 goal involvements in two thirds of a season and you want to talk about sentiment? Pull the other one pal. Your trolling is boring now.
04 Jun 2024 17:40:42
did ozil really ever need legs? i'd say the ozil situation was more that he no longer fit the way the team wanted to play (and was also constantly made a scapegoat with people saying he had poor work rate and was a maverick luxury player), whereas wenger knew exactly what he needed from him and how he wanted to use him. ozil is a one of a kind player and a true genius of the game imo, who won't be remembered the way he should because position-centric tactics don't have a place for him. as such i don't think it's a good comparison with mo at all, mo is a player who once was instructed to play a certain way, and has shown signs that he can play an entirely different way.
it's examples like these that make me think you sometimes make sensationalist claims without really considering the actual basis behind arguments you make. on paper it certainly seems like your argument makes sense, but in reality football isn't simply about being able to run really fast for 90 minutes, mo isn't just a sprinter who plays in transition in behind, he also has the ability to create with first time passes with the outside of his boot in central areas, when participating in overloads and one twos in the right flank, his game can evolve because he's just a very good footballer.
the question is whether the evolution of his game will come with us- i personally hope so- or whether he does it somewhere else. whatever the case i'm sure this evolution will make sure he isn't pegged eternally as the right winger whose trick of running really fast in behind or dribbling inside to smash one into the to corner no longer works because his legs are gone.
and mk- excellent post, but for me. i think mane was a world class player too, as an athlete covering massive amounts of the pitch every game back and forth with an without the ball and as a footballer. we really miss the combination play he had with robbo and his instinctive finishing. i don't know if he could have evolved in the same way as mo but i guess we'll never really know after the bayern misadventure.
04 Jun 2024 17:44:33
MKS as I have said, I would not mind seeing Salah go as clearly he has lost a step and the injury he sufferred esp. including the setback he had, hurt him badly on an individual level.
However, he is not the only one who struggled amongst our forwards cos well, they all did. So if we can't move him and he wants to stay then, I will come that cos he has the power and like it or not, he knows where the goal is.
As for the others, anyone rushing to bomb them out is off his rocker. Those players (Trent, AB1, VVD) are still well on top of their games and it would be completely stupid to get rid of them on a whim or cos "Look how much money we can get for them". Nonsensical logic. IMO, those players esp. now under a new regime, are worth more to us than whatever fee we could get to them. You don't sell your best and veteran players during a new regime. That makes no damn sense at all, IMO. At least not in the short term.
04 Jun 2024 18:09:06
It all depends on the type of player. If a player relies on pace, reactions and skill tend to not do well when they lose one or more of those attributes.
Players that rely more on creativity, footballing IQ and technique tend to do much better as they adapt to different roles better as they age.
The players that you've listed for other clubs were not like that, except for Giggs, who completely changed his style of play to stay useful.
Out of the Liverpool players you've listed, VVD and Alisson are most likely capable of adapting as they get older, however I'm not so sure about Salah - there is just something that makes me think he'll be unable to adapt as his legs go.
04 Jun 2024 18:09:25
I expect Virg will get a new deal.
Can see Mo running his contract down as I don't see us being willing to improve his existing terms.
Don't think Alisson's deal is up for renewal.
The Premier League is physically unforgiving, and drop offs can happen overnight. It's right that PL clubs think very carefully about extending contracts in the mid-30s.
04 Jun 2024 19:25:40
For goals and assists per game it was one of Salah's best seasons for us. Not many right wingers out there that guarantee 25-30 goals a season lads.
04 Jun 2024 19:30:09
Patrik, Mane got very close but I think he was always more reliant on his explosive pace than Salah.
Oli, i’d say Salah could easily move central like Messi and Ronaldo did around this age. Honestly, I’d just give Salah and Virgil 2 year deals and reassess when they’re down to 6 months left and coming up for 34/ 35. Alisson and Trent there is no argument for me, give them both 5 years and put those conversations to bed for good.
We’ve got 4 world class players and people want to sell them because they are saleable assets. Of course they are. Because they are world class and everyone would be interested!
04 Jun 2024 19:47:32
MK - For such a consistently good writer your words to Viktor here suprise me. It isn't nonsense or trolling. He just has a subjective pinion, one that happens to be different from your subjective opinion. I also happen to think Salah is worth cashing in on now based on the quality of his overall play, but hey that's my opinion and I'll support any player in a red shirt next season come what may. If someone called me a troll for having an opinion that I'm fully entitled to have and share on a public forum I'd probably think a little less of them, at a minimum. There's no need to get personal. Please do better.
04 Jun 2024 19:51:19
I’ll hold my hands up MKS and say that I don’t agree with all of your posts but I 100% agree with your original post here, Allison, VVD, Trent and Salah are the back bone to this Liverpool team, to write 3 of them of is a travesty, Salah is not a striker, posters tend to forget that but yet year after year he’s scoring consistently 20 goals or more a season and I can definitely see him doing that this new season and to think that while he’s been with us he’s scored I think over 200 goals, I’m with you on this one, Salah has to stay and personally I think he will but hey if he does decide to go, he can leave with his head held high and he’ll rank with Rushie, Fowler, Gerrard, Torres as a Liverpool scoring legend.
04 Jun 2024 22:33:26
Westwood he accused me of being sentimental. Yet, Salah was our top goal scorer and joint top creator this season! Keeping him has absolutely zero sentimentality about it. In the here and now he’s been our best forward (again) . So that wound me up admittedly, but his comment here wasn’t necessarily trolling.
When I say trolling I’m referring to how he is so overly negative all the time and I honestly just find it boring now. The Eds have even said they are having to filter out his more nasty posts. It’s bad enough when he torpedos every player we’re linked to, let alone when he starts on a bonafide modern day Liverpool legend.
I’m not going to be doom and gloom if Salah goes, because we have lost great players before and come back. But in this instance we don’t need to sell him. We are in a strong position financially with other players in the squad we can sell who are less effective.
04 Jun 2024 23:15:37
Fair enough MK. I missed some context then so sorry about that. I admittedly also just get wound up when I read a lot of subjective opinion stated as fact on here and normally I wouldn't even respond to it. But from you it just seemed a bit off, not like you at all, that's all. You have a higher standard. in my opinion of course.
05 Jun 2024 01:18:11
Well said MK, a great post that mate.
05 Jun 2024 05:22:06
Just wanted to add as well that this "hand to mouth" model doesn't seem to be true in recent years. Who did we sell to fund the summer transfers of Mac, Grav, and Szobo. Those three are already in excess of 100m. And that is not to mention that we made a bid of over 100m for Caicedo. I don't think we need to sell the exact amount that we need to buy players at. We have shown that if we want the player, we would do what we can within reason to get him in.
05 Jun 2024 07:45:05
GKs can play well into their 40’s
Outfield players are different (Giggs being an exception) .
Most get recurrent injuries and gradually their ability fades. That’s happening to Salah. I noticed he’d lost his pace right at the beginning of the season - I think it was Newcastle away. I put it down to form and early season stuff. Then in the first home game with Fulham it was reinforced for me. Basically he wouldn’t get a new contract from me. If he stays another season, he probably hasn’t had a better offer.
Trent - he gets a new contract but £300k a week is pie in the sky
Virgil - maybe an extension but a short one.
05 Jun 2024 12:34:21
Nice one, Dracred. "Hand to mouth" model. Another clickbait buzzword that means absolutely diddly squat in reality.