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25 Apr 2016 10:25:53
First of all, apologies for the length of this post. I haven't stuck my oar in for a while, and I intend making up for it!

Hate to say it, but over the weekend, it felt like the wheels had come off. After the highs of an historic quarterfinal victory and the demolition derby, we've lost our captain, a midfield stalwart, an emerging insurance policy in attack, and now the nearest thing to a rock in defence. And that's just on the field. Off it, the ramifications of the Sakho doping allegations are at best a serious professional misdemeanour, and an embarrassment for the club, but at worst another costly European ban for the club.

This situation will put the club under greater scrutiny. As I understand it, if any other player were to be found to have traces of banned substances in their system, the club would become answerable. In this respect, the very public bromance between Sakho and Toure doesn't inspire the same confidence that it did last week.

This stark contrast in fortunes, for individual and club, is further underlined by Sakho scoring in his last two matches (goals from corners, by defenders being as rare as hens teeth this season) . The last against a ten man Everton, in a 4-0 win, doesn't seem so significant, but scoring the goal to draw us level in an internationally high profile EL quarterfinal is another matter.

I need hardly add, that had Sakho not scored, Lovren's goal wouldn't have knocked Dortmund out of the competition, and Anfield would not have another historical comeback in its pantheon. I hope that, should Sakho be found guilty, our special relationship with Dortmund, extends to them not seeking legal measures to alter the outcome of that glorious two-legged quarter-final.

I know that winning the semi-final is by no means a forgone conclusion, let alone winning the competition with a weakened team, but imagine the opportunity to win a cup, at the same time qualifying for the CL, being taken away. Imagine what a ban from European competition would mean for the club, recruitment and possibly the tenure of our inspirational manager.

Having supported the club since the mid-seventies, I know what it's like to climb the mountain, to leap from peak to peak, and then to go slipping down the icy slope. Have no doubt, it wasn't the cream coloured suits, 'that' slip, or the devine intervention of ol' red nose, that ultimately cost us our crown, it was the extended European ban following the Heysel disaster, that had the single, most profound effect on the fortunes of the club.

I would argue, that we are currently in a better position to launch a sustained pursuit of the highest honours than we have been for years. We have a clear long term plan, ground redevelopment well underway, a proven manager of international standing, and a team no longer reliant on one or two individual superstars (ageing and ensconced, or with eyes on greener fields) . It would be a travesty if all this were undone for a few milligrams of urine and blood (albeit combined with a stadium sized dollop of ignorance, or stupidity, on behalf of one individual) .

As a supporter, I pray that somewhere along the line, there has been a horrible misunderstanding, but as a realist I hope the ramifications of this remain contained, and well managed, in a dignified manner by the club.

You'll be relieved to know, I've had my say. I'm going to have a lie down.

Raised Eyebrow

1.) 25 Apr 2016 10:58:35
Surely, as the failed test was against Man Utd, the only team who could question the result is them?
I don't think Dortmund would protest. Sure Sakho wouldn't have scored if he'd been banned, but he also wouldn't have been hopelessly out of position for Dortmunds second goal and may have been more alert for Dortmunds first.
All " if's and buts" so I think Dortmund will keep out of it.

{Ed001's Note - all ifs and buts but they could still call the result into question. And they would be right to do so if one of our players was found to have cheated.}


2.) 25 Apr 2016 11:11:43
Very very good post.


3.) 25 Apr 2016 12:01:18
Not sure about this as its complex and not my background but if guilty then he cheated against Man Utd. Is there any evidence he cheated against Dortmund? How long does this stuff remain in the system?
I don't think Dortmund would have a very strong case but then I'm not up on the legal ramifications.


4.) 25 Apr 2016 12:01:25
I would caution against being quite so doom and gloom - no doubt our minds were on sakho and other games to come against Newcastle but we still ruled them supreme for 45 mins and had one of the most obvious penalties ever not given that would have destroyed their spirit. Add to that Can and Ings both seem to think they can be back before the season is over and we have a lot left to go this season - trust Klopp not to take that second half lying down and get them concentrating again.


5.) 25 Apr 2016 12:17:14
Do you think Dortmund would ed001?
Seems a bit desperate and un dignified to me and not sure they would want to go through on a technicality like that.
I would hope Liverpool wouldn't question Dortmund if the tables where turned, just seems a bit ungentlemanly to me, although so is doping so now I have contradicted myself lol.

{Ed001's Note - not as ungentlemanly as deliberately cheating, which is what Sakho could well have done. It would make him an ineligible player, the standard punishment for fielding an ineligible player is a 3-0 defeat to the team which did so. They would be perfectly entitled to question the result. Not sure they would do so, but I certainly would not blame them if they did so.}


6.) 25 Apr 2016 12:41:19
In that case ed001 wouldn't we lose 3-0 to Man Utd and never get to face Dortmund?
It would certainly be messy for UEFA to sort out. Man Utd would need to play Dortmund twice, the semis would be delayed and possibly the final.

{Ed001's Note - no mate, I wasn't saying he was an ineligible player, I was saying in essence it is a similar thing, so you can understand why they would want to complain.}


7.) 25 Apr 2016 13:29:46
I definitely can, if the clubs were reversed I'd be calling UEFA all the names allowed if they didn't reinstate us.

It's too complex for me, but I can see some wriggle room for UEFA/ LFC as he's not technically ineligible until found guilty. It puts the club in a very embarrassing situation. It's for this reason I can't understand why some people want to welcome him back if he's guilty.


8.) 25 Apr 2016 17:07:45
He definitely should not play for the clubs sake and I'm glad they've come out and said as much. If we had lost to any team then discovered one of their players was on a banned substance we would all be on here baying for blood, regardless of whether he was technically banned at the time or not. Whether it's through stupidity or deliberate cheating it can't be tolerated, I just hope the club comes through this with a degree of leniency applied. Massively disappointed in the lad.


9.) 25 Apr 2016 23:05:07
Over the top or what. Who died?

He'll be banned for a year or more. That's the end of that. He's a dope. Has had weight problems and took the easy option. He's a youngster at the same time. If I had doping controls at work in my 20's, I'd have been banned for life.

The club have reacted well and properly. All good. Put away the kleenex and let's go again for Thursday.


10.) 25 Apr 2016 23:55:34
So if it turned out another teams player used a fat burning substance you all would be looking for the result to be over turned. Come on people. Yes he deserves a ban and can not complain but it's not Ben Johnson we are talking about.


11.) 25 Apr 2016 21:10:02
Sorry Ed01, in response to your replies, I think I didn't quite get you, and maybe it's because of my English.

Are you saying that if found guilty, United or Dortmund could complain? Those games' results can be rescinded?

Thanks Ed.

{Ed001's Note - no, I don't think they will, I think they should.}


 

 

25 Apr 2016 10:25:53
First of all, apologies for the length of this post. I haven't stuck my oar in for a while, and I intend making up for it!

Hate to say it, but over the weekend, it felt like the wheels had come off. After the highs of an historic quarterfinal victory and the demolition derby, we've lost our captain, a midfield stalwart, an emerging insurance policy in attack, and now the nearest thing to a rock in defence. And that's just on the field. Off it, the ramifications of the Sakho doping allegations are at best a serious professional misdemeanour, and an embarrassment for the club, but at worst another costly European ban for the club.

This situation will put the club under greater scrutiny. As I understand it, if any other player were to be found to have traces of banned substances in their system, the club would become answerable. In this respect, the very public bromance between Sakho and Toure doesn't inspire the same confidence that it did last week.

This stark contrast in fortunes, for individual and club, is further underlined by Sakho scoring in his last two matches (goals from corners, by defenders being as rare as hens teeth this season) . The last against a ten man Everton, in a 4-0 win, doesn't seem so significant, but scoring the goal to draw us level in an internationally high profile EL quarterfinal is another matter.

I need hardly add, that had Sakho not scored, Lovren's goal wouldn't have knocked Dortmund out of the competition, and Anfield would not have another historical comeback in its pantheon. I hope that, should Sakho be found guilty, our special relationship with Dortmund, extends to them not seeking legal measures to alter the outcome of that glorious two-legged quarter-final.

I know that winning the semi-final is by no means a forgone conclusion, let alone winning the competition with a weakened team, but imagine the opportunity to win a cup, at the same time qualifying for the CL, being taken away. Imagine what a ban from European competition would mean for the club, recruitment and possibly the tenure of our inspirational manager.

Having supported the club since the mid-seventies, I know what it's like to climb the mountain, to leap from peak to peak, and then to go slipping down the icy slope. Have no doubt, it wasn't the cream coloured suits, 'that' slip, or the devine intervention of ol' red nose, that ultimately cost us our crown, it was the extended European ban following the Heysel disaster, that had the single, most profound effect on the fortunes of the club.

I would argue, that we are currently in a better position to launch a sustained pursuit of the highest honours than we have been for years. We have a clear long term plan, ground redevelopment well underway, a proven manager of international standing, and a team no longer reliant on one or two individual superstars (ageing and ensconced, or with eyes on greener fields) . It would be a travesty if all this were undone for a few milligrams of urine and blood (albeit combined with a stadium sized dollop of ignorance, or stupidity, on behalf of one individual) .

As a supporter, I pray that somewhere along the line, there has been a horrible misunderstanding, but as a realist I hope the ramifications of this remain contained, and well managed, in a dignified manner by the club.

You'll be relieved to know, I've had my say. I'm going to have a lie down.

Raised Eyebrow

 

 

 

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30 Jul 2017 22:01:31
Always assumed Ox would be wing back if he came.

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02 Jun 2016 09:05:09
It's not just that, it's the latest of a list of reported things that might, or might not, have happened. Not least, the way he left Dortmund (& Klopp) when things were going well, for Bayern - think of something similar happening here between rivals.

Add to this the indication that Bayern appear quite happy to let him go at a loss, and whereas walking off in a sulk rather than celebrating with teammates, might be down to any number of things, I think it fair to say, we've had our fingers burned in recent seasons.

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02 Jun 2016 08:37:10
Not sure about this transfer myself. Not wanting to get on a player's back before he hasn't even joined (etc etc), but I'm not convinced we need him: position, injury record and questionable attitude. Seems like another cut-price/ high wage gamble.

Might need some humble pie somewhere along the line, and I'll try to see the silver (ware) lining if it happens, but won't be that disappointed if it doesn't.

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19 Jun 2015 13:01:47
That, and the fact that the transfer window isn't even open yet.

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20 Aug 2014 17:27:06
I agree, there does seem to be something there - you may 'like the guy', but you also seem to like the chance to have a bit of a dig. And for what it's worth, I should think it's more likely to be the latter - after all, he'd hardly be the first manager to 'mislead' the press. Would've thought you'd be well aware of that.

Of course, it could also be that he was telling the truth, because as we all know, the truth changes

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13 Aug 2017 21:51:19
I tried the search function and found nothing either, 2hotty. Perhaps it's a smokescreen to distract everyone from a marquee signing? I'm hating this transfer window.

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27 Jul 2017 06:32:44
I expect it's Rosenthal.

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10 Jun 2017 08:58:52
Christ - a positive post! I'll do a screenshot to get through the next few weeks.

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10 Mar 2017 12:32:59
So, that'll be Leicester and Man Utd then.

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07 Nov 2016 07:25:54
Suggesting we rely on Sturridge following an international 'break' is reckless talk AG.

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