19 Dec 2023 07:39:01
{Ed's Note - Seano_ has posted a new article entitled, Liverpool vs Manchester United Overview
1.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 08:35:35
Just a note on Salah I think we are see a definitely decline in his play this season. Don’t get me wrong he will still score a lot of goals I just feel we are seeing more bad performances sneaking in.
2.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 09:13:23
Personally if we have a declining right sided attacker who will score or assist in 40 - 50 goals this season or a ‘striker’ who, to quote Dave Bassett, “couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a banjo”, I know who my choice for first pick on the team sheet would be.
3.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 10:19:57
Spot on with all you said, Ed01. The inverted FB stuff has been done to death so won't comment on that. Also as many people have said, we just made very poor decisions in the final third with when and how to do things effectively. That's all the game boiled down to.
Sure Utd played deep BUT we have seen this team be able to batter teams who play deep lots of times over the years cos we move the ball quicker and more incisively to open them up and Utd were there to be had, for sure. This is why I keep saying we are a work in progress cos Klopp 1.0 struggled a lot with Parked buses and as soon as we got it right, we smashed them for fun finishing with 90+ points and a near 100 points season when we strolled the league in 19/ 20.
This team has a couple of gears to go so hopefully, they will continue to work hard and improve cos I think we are really good and have the potential to be great over the coming years overall.
{Ed001's Note - that wasn't me.}
4.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 11:14:24
Ed01 sorry, it wasn't you who did what?
{Ed001's Note - I never said anything in this thread Oli.}
5.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 11:22:03
There were many games in the past when we failed to break the defense even when we didn't employ the inverted full back thing.
There was no lack of intensity from the players. There is a lack of pattern in the play. It feels so chaotic like Nunez. Quite a bit of first half was messed up by miss passes from Szobozlai in the final third. There were some really decent situations and we could have really taken advantage of, but couldn't. He clearly had a bad day.
And nothing of note came from Nunez except for an unprovoked shove to Evans which resulted in a yellow card mid way through first half. I was worried all game that he would see a second yellow. Luckily that didn't happen. Salah was pretty poor until Nunez was playing. The link-up play seemed to improve when he was subbed. I think the lad needs some goals desperately to get his confidence back. There is no lack of trying, but we need a bit more quality to win the league.
6.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 11:50:24
Oli, the article was written by Seano_.
7.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 12:00:20
In our last five games we have scored 10 goals, only one by a forward.
We haven't being playing well since befor the Luton game.
8.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 12:02:58
We went to a flat back 4 in the second half and it didn’t change our intensity and the 2nd half Utd had their 2 best chances whether that’s a coincidence or not.
I’m not saying inverted full back is the problem or the answer because I’ve never left a game of football overly concerned about our formation especially over the result or performance.
We have the players that can cause any team in world football problems when we are in possession but the last few games especially we look like a sports car with the handbrake on and 4 wheel clamps.
And that’s with the inverted full back or flat back 4.
9.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 12:12:36
Did it surprise you @ArAy :)
10.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 12:14:36
@Jk23. according to OLi mate we are in a rebuild. so no more dicussion. Agree with you. What jack arse did we do after going back to a flat back 4? precisly nothing.
11.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 12:43:06
I know it's difficult for you Harry, but try to be nice. ?.
12.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 12:43:39
Oh, sorry Ed01. I thought you wrote the review.
Nice one, @Seano_.
{Ed001's Note - no mate, mine isn't done as I was out all day yesterday.}
13.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 12:51:08
Harry, we are in a rebuild and that's a fact regardless of what position we currently hold in the standings. You yourself said preseason that we would finish midtable and now our issues be damned, we are 2nd.
So here's a thought: Why don't you do many of us a favor and go home and try to make up your mind as to which narrative you are going to stick to till the end of the season cos right.
Is it the Preseason Harry? Or are you going to keep waffling around and changing your tune on a weekly basis depending on where the wind blows as in, the results du jour? And by all means, take your time.
14.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 13:01:23
We are not in any sort of rebuild, We are a fully functional team that somehow can't score goals. you call this as some sort of magnetic correndum? You often talk about the system issue, what is the issue with the system other than full backs not bombing up and down?
who told you only the full backs are supposed to provide the width? which book is that? please refer me? wingers can also provide width. Two of the three best teams in the league (arsenal and City) are successfully playing this way.
Gakpo should be playing on the Left wing and not on the right and that has no relevane to neitehr a rebuild nor the system.
Diaz can't beat a man nor dribble past anyone and that is not down to a rebuild process or system.
Nunez can't hit a barn doow and that is not down to a rebuild in process.
We have 7 central midfeilders. all of them are offensive, this system is a tailor made of those midfielders to influence the game and that includes scoring goals.
So if we beat arsenal by a 5 goal margin i assume our rebuild is over then lol.
15.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 13:43:21
But we still need a DM?
16.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 14:40:31
Think Harry's hit the nail on the head with his last thoughts. I am quite thick and struggle to write/ type the way Harry puts his views across.
Gotta say I am really enjoying Harry and Oli on here of late, it's nice to get a good discussion going.
17.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 16:21:48
Salah has been fantastic this season creating and scoring. He can’t do it all by himself he needs other top forwards to play with.
{Ed025's Note - really Onekiss ?, i think he has been very underwhelming by his own very high standards mate, still a very good goal and assist record but gives the ball away too much and has been very wasteful for me, and im a big fan..
18.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 16:41:22
The only problem I have with Harry’s comments is when he says ‘We are not in a rebuild’ I’m not sure who he is talking about. Surely if Harry says we he means Man City. Isn’t that his team.
19.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 17:31:51
Where are you located @Negative. Doesn’t matter I am going to chart a private flight to meet you ????.
20.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 18:00:25
Cue the intro music from "The Love Boat". ?.
21.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 18:34:21
fun fact. in Klopp's tenure as Liverpool manager, excluding his first part-season in charge we've scored an average of 38 goals after 17 games played. This season we have 36.
hardly call that "can't score"
The conversation is fun but it's gets turned into dumb when random comments are put forward as absolute facts.
22.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 18:36:49
The problem with Harry’s posts are that any good points get completely lost in the unnecessary hyperbole.
example:
“We are a fully functional team that somehow can't score goals”
That is the first game we haven’t scored a goal since last season.
23.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 19:00:16
How about rephrasing it to our forwards can’t score? I am sure you guys deliberately missed the actual point. This “we are in a rebuild” is a loser mentality. It’s a coward stance, when the going gets tough we bring up this useless excuses.
When the forwards don’t score the midfield bloody MUST chip in with goals. This system is designed to get the best out of them.
24.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 19:17:42
City (haaland, Alvarez, foden, silva) - 26 goals
Liverpool (salah, nunez, Diaz, jota) - 22 goals
Arsenal (saka, nketiah, odegaard, havertz) - 18 goals
Spurs (son, kulusevski, richarlison, Maddison) - 22 goals
Villa - (Watkins, Bailey, luiz, McGinn, ) - 23 goals
So our forwards can’t score no?
Compared to what exactly?
For the record Harry I’m not backing Oli’s stance in any way but if you’re going to counter him don’t just respond with nonsense like this. It really doesn’t do you any favours.
25.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 19:18:06
I don’t get the “work in progress” notion. What are we working towards? The inverted is here to stay so that’s done and dusted.
In the past we had arguably two of the world best wingers at their peak in Mane and Salah and one of the most intelligent footballer in Firmino. They could score against anyone. This won’t happen again dude.
Can you tell me what exactly is Klopp working towards? Is he exploring secret recipe to beat teams that park the bus ?.
26.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 20:03:05
Harry we are always a work in progress as all of the best teams are. I have been watching and playing football all my life and I’ve seen some great teams but never have I seen ‘the finished article’.
We are still integrating new players into a new system so in that sense there is lots of room for improvement but if people are waiting for us to become perfect then I’m afraid they’ll have a long wait.
No team, player or system is ever perfect because every team, player and system will have weaknesses that can be exploited.
Oli is right in that we are playing new players in a new system and they don’t perform with the consistency we’d all like just yet. That will get better as we go along as they become more familiar with each other and their roles within the system. In the meantime we will have some inconsistencies but we have largely managed to compensate for that just with sheer desire and quality throughout the squad.
Sunday was actually probably the most dominance in a game that I can remember for a very long time but because we don’t score suddenly we have gone from a team with so many attacking options to ‘a team that can’t score goals’ which is just a ridiculous assessment.
In my opinion the reason we didn’t score is because we tried too hard to score. The team wanted to put on another 7-0 show so they tensed up in front of goal and didn’t perform the system and tactics properly. If they had, we would’ve won easily. But these are the exact inconsistencies I mentioned earlier. It’s a learning process so they will analyse and learn from the experience and it’s another step towards being the team they want to be. You have to make these mistakes to learn.
27.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 20:26:49
@Wassa
Did you include all the games or is it the league. I am not really a Stats guy. I don’t remember our forwards scoring a lot since the break.
28.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 20:56:16
If we ask Klopp whether we are a championship ready team, I am 1000% certain he will say no and that we are building towards being that kind of team.
This year's team is not near the levels of the 2017-2022 era. We are building towards that.
29.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 21:11:56
@Wassa thank you for providing a valid argument to this nonsense that our forwards can't score. It's ludicrous and again only proves to work as nonsense to hide behind any sort of negative agenda that so many has on top of losing or drawing a game.
Our forwards have hit a periodical bump, that much I can agree to - with that said, Jota is injured, Diaz understandably still affected, Nunez still young and improving, Salah still putting in the same amount of numbers he has in previous seasons. At the same time, we've had a few more goals from midfielders than in previous seasons - I don't hear anyone talking about that.
People are putting different weight to what the word rebuild refers to. Football changes quickly and drastically. New players come every season, teams constantly change tactics, change managers, change staff, go through injuries (which have been insane this season btw), always looking for ways to improve their own way, while still trying to counter everything the opposition teams try to do differently. It's ever changing, so of course football teams are in a constant loop of improving and adjusting. Otherwise what's the point in having training sessions?
It's always the same. We have a game off and suddenly negative facts are thrown into the air, be them true or not, as people already have their own unshakable narratives, as to change one's mind and have a moment of clarity is one of the hardest things we humans can do. We can give critique, I am one for doing that too, but some of the posts I read on here are just verging on absolute toxicity and entitlement.
30.) 19 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 21:23:52
Sunday was actually probably the most dominance in a game that I can remember for a very long time but because we don’t score suddenly we have gone from a team with so many attacking options to ‘a team that can’t score goals’ which is just a ridiculous assessment.
You are being blinded by the fact that UTD had no interest in retaining the ball. They would have sat there for the rest of the night and yesterday.
It won’t be the case against Arsenal. The same team though!
31.) 20 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 22:52:04
Habibi - not sure what you're basing your opinion on. But you'd be right in thinking that the forwards hadn't score a lot since the break. In 5 games and 9 goals scored the forwards have accounted for one goal and 2 assists.
I'm not sure how you assess we can't score goals, but it seems a bit silly to base that opinion off of your memory of the games since the break. before the break the forwards accounted for 24G/ 7A in the league.
It's a random comment stated as fact based off of your memory of just the last handful of games.
32.) 20 Dec 2023
19 Dec 2023 23:26:41
Those stats are just the league games
Harry.
For the record I actually think Liverpool played right into Uniteds hands. United were so passive and largely useless that we almost entered a stage of absolute complacency. The tempo of our football just dropped off a cliff. Every time we injected a bit of pace and we created something.
Had Liverpool showed any level of composure in the final third and United would have got absolutely pumped. I’m sorry but the only reason why they never left with a hiding was entirely our own fault.
33.) 20 Dec 2023
20 Dec 2023 00:06:41
How can you use a point that requires a stat for it to be used, and when people call you out with a stat to counter your point, you simply goes "oh I'm not a stat person"?
Wow!
34.) 20 Dec 2023
20 Dec 2023 02:25:59
This Harry and Oli bromance thing is hilarious.
35.) 20 Dec 2023
20 Dec 2023 05:50:58
I think Salah has been pretty average this season (by his standards) He was very poor against United and made the wrong choice on multiple occasions. Diaz has been through a lot with his dad etc but again has been pretty poor imo. Nunez when starting hasn't been great. I like Gapko and really want him to play in his preferred position and give him a good run of games to settle. I think we are missing Jota tbh. I know he's not everyone's favourite but we missed him massively against united. With Salah leaving at the end of the season (likely) we really need to sign someone who can score freely. I'm not a fan of Sane at all. I'd personally go all out for Oshimen (sp) The lad is class.
36.) 20 Dec 2023
20 Dec 2023 15:48:20
Salah, absolutely. It's absolutely great fun watching the two go at it. Makes my day when I check in to have a look.
The smartest one, of course, is JK23 who carefully picks his battles, slips in, with a comment here and there, and then slips out. ?.
37.) 20 Dec 2023
20 Dec 2023 16:28:15
Watch it, get out of the way, someone back peddling at a fair old rate.
How can you can’t say the forwards aren’t scoring and then say you didn’t check the facts? I understand you say stuff ‘for effect’ but your assertion in this case is just silly. In fact, if you remove the Norwegian troll-like creature our front four would be head and shoulders above the rest of the League.
38.) 20 Dec 2023
20 Dec 2023 22:16:44
I'm a stats guy and here's what the very basic numbers are:
Liverpool in all 27 matches played so far (including today) :
G A G+A G/ g A/ g G+A/ g
FW 42 16 58 1.62 0.62 2.23
MF 12 11 23 0.46 0.42 0.88
DF 5 18 23 0.19 0.69 0.88
Liverpool in 17 PL matches so far:
G A G+A G/ g A/ g G+A/ g
FW 24 12 36 1.41 0.71 2.12
MF 5 5 10 0.29 0.29 0.59
DF 4 7 11 0.24 0.41 0.65
Numbers increase when adding in Europa and League Cup but I wouldn't consider that a significant jump to suggest that those competitions are inflating the numbers.
Posters have been crying out for the midfield to deliver more goals and assists. I think we're getting that so far, and their increased production could also be out-weighing the necessity of our forward players to produce even more than they are already.
Note - that these numbers consider Trent as a defender not a midfielder.
39.) 21 Dec 2023
21 Dec 2023 00:44:06
Sorry, the table format looked way better before it got posted lol
Will just show the forwards:
Goals (All games) = 42 vs Goals (PL) = 24
Goals/ game (All) = 1.62 vs Goals/ game (PL) = 1.41
Assists (All) = 16 vs Assists (PL) = 12
Assists/ game (all) = 0.62 vs Assists/ game (PL) = 0.71
G+A (All) = 58 vs G+A (PL) = 36
G+A/ game (All) = 2.23 vs G+A/ game (PL) = 2.12.