24 Jul 2023 13:53:57
Some things don't change though - defence is rubbish!

1.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:05:49
Okay, then. Anything else you would like to whinge about over a worthless preseason game where the result means absolutely nothing?

2.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:15:33
If preseason games are worthless, why play them. I know it is about fitness and blowing away the cobwebs, but Matip and Gomes have been very poor for at least two years now and we will struggle if injuries bite to Konate and VVD.

I am simply very concerned about our ability to keep clean sheets, which will be necessary to get top 4 and possible win anything. The reality is that we look fragile, and Matip and Gomes today have and continue to be very poor. We will be destroyed by decent sides in the Premier League if we have to rely on these two and the team as a whole does not provide a meaningful level of protection.

Not wingeing, simply calling out obvious issues that need to be addressed.

Lets see if i am proved right or not when the season is under way.

3.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:16:16
The first choice keeper and defence kept a clean sheet in the first half. It was the second string and kids who let the goals in in the second half.

4.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:16:19
Didn’t see the game and result means very little but performances do.

Who were the standouts today and anyone not perform well.

5.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:21:06
Context I guess is important. we didn't concede in the first half when we had our first team defence in.

Then we conceded from an Adrian error and an offside goal (side note, how is Adrian still here?! ) . And most importantly as Oli said, its a pre-season game where we can iron these type of issues.

All that being said, conceding 4 goals is poor. And I really think Gomez needs to go - just seems a shadow of the player he was post injury. Hopefully this is the kick up the backside we need and we address these issues.

6.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:17:13
Yeah Adrian can't kick and Tsimikas can't play inverted left back. Nunez took his goals well and good assist for Salah but missed a sitter at the end. Doak head and shoulders above the rest of the youngsters and definitely ready for some minutes. Diaz looked decent.

7.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:18:17
Olired - After last season’s shambolic season, we should be coming into preseason focused, eager, and prepared. Defensively, that was atrocious. We have conceded 6 goals to two very poor sides.

8.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:24:55
JK23 and BB, the second half wasn't the second string - yes there were some youngsters given game time, but there were also a number of first team squad players who will likely get a lot of game time this coming season - Matip and Gomes, Tsimikas, Elliot, Nunez, Salah to name 6 off the top of my head.

On the plus side, Salah and Nunez looked sharp and the latter took his goals very well. Very pleasing to see, but the forward line and creative element of the team is not a concern in my mind. Keeping a clean sheet and looking solid is.

9.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:31:49
Connorslfc in the overall scheme of things, they are worthless and they are nothing but glorified training sessions going against another team to build up fitness and execute certain things you have worked on in training. That's all they are good for and nothing else hence, worthless at the end of the day. If you are concerned about what happened in such "games" then, go ahead and be concerned and write a whole essay about it. That's none of my business.

But don't use that as an excuse to start going after players based on their performances good or bad as if it means something tangible. It doesn't and will never be the case. "Oh, We looked fragile. Oh, We will be destroyed by Premier League sides". After the second friendly game? Bro, do you even hear yourself? Are we playing Chelsea this coming weekend? Will we be playing these kids vs Chelsea in the season opener in 3 weeks? Man, take a day off. Good grief!

10.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:38:42
No one got injured, that's pretty much the only important thing.

11.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:39:57
OR, let's wait and see then. I'll take my medicine and will be very happy should we start strong and have a great season.

But will you recognise the issues if they show themselves and we fail to compete and challenge?

12.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:42:22
On the one hand we argue (one of the arguments) that last season's results were a direct result of the lack of proper pre-season preparation for the season. And then on the other hand, now that we're in a preseason again, we say "hey, it's only a pre-season game; no need to take it seriously nor even comment on it".

So which is it? Pick one argument and stick to it. Or, you can continue flip-flopping to suit the narrative for your post of the day.

{Ed025's Note - wise words indeed ArAy..

13.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:46:54
Regardless of any preseason game (and the defending in the second half was woeful from defence and midfield), we badly need a new CB. It is critical for next season that this is addressed.

I only have both pre season games to go on but Quansah needs more cooking from what I be seen. 5th choice/ Europa league works for me though. Matip is done I think. That leaves 3 CBs I'm comfortable with in Van Dijk, Konate and Gomez in a top match.

Like I said in earlier post, it's as obvious as midfield. One really good new CB addition could improve the situation massively.

I think we should all agree a new CB should be top of the agenda. Hopefully Klopp and co. Can get it done as well as a DM and CM.

14.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:51:48
Genuine question (because I've never been good enough to play at any particularly decent level), but I would assume that the level of intensity is a tiny fraction of what it would be in an actual Cup, or PL game.

I would also assume that there is some instruction given in terms of the type of challenges to make and back out from?

15.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 14:52:25
The main difference between the halves was the possession and game management. First half we had the ball, played some good stuff, if chances were taken it would have been 3 or 4 nil. No complaints from me and the patterns looked great. It looked like the team had 5 attackers and 5 defenders, front press very evident and all good signs. Second half was a bit ragged. More like a basketball game end to end. The goal where McConnell got a short pass from Adrian wouldn't have stood in the premier league, it would have been a foul. Darwin and Mo look so sharp and fit, great to see.

Onwards and upwards! Think the double sessions end now before the middle east trip. Good to get some time for everyone involved. Only negative for me was Kelleher wasnt involved at all. I have heard its as all the other keepers had game time today, but the lad is clearly needed as number 2 to Alison.

16.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 15:07:46
First two pre season games mirror last Pre Season.
We’re making the exact same mistakes and are still a Lot of players short.

17.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 15:18:01
Spot on Aray ?.

18.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 15:21:53
I haven't played pro level Parma. Played at high amatuer level but yeah, there's an unwritten rule in friendlies to avoid meaty challenges.

That does not excuse not being in position though.

Honestly though, forget preseason. Let's not beat around the bush here and call a spade a spade. The last season has showed us a CB is urgent requirement.

We can't let moss descend on the team. We need to be a rolling stone.

A new CB in the team would be like killing two birds with one stone. Not sure exactly how. You will need to use your imagination for that one.

Point is, we need a new CB.

19.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 15:33:56
Oli you say preseason games are worthless? Why play them then? You then say they are glorified training sessions. Isn't training important then? You then say they are use to execute things you've worked on in training. Isn't that even more important then? If that is the case then the experiment of whether matip, gomez, Adrian and tsimikas are good enough to play the system we've been playing since the back end of last season is a failing experiment. Shouldn't they be going out there proving they are good enough back up or fighting for a first team spot? Isn't that also what pre season is about? You talk about people writing essays about the friendlies but you've commented on 3 posts to say how pointless they are yourself.
Bit strange.

20.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 15:36:51
@Davey Sulls - thanks, I guess my thought has always been that you can't really make much of a comparison when it comes to friendlies. You're right, though; you can't be caught out of position in either.

My hope is that we definitely bring in another CB (left-footer), it's been required for a while now. My concern is that we seem to be linked with several, but haven't made an approach to any. I can well believe we're looking to get the DM position sorted first, but there just doesn't seem to be any concrete links with any defenders.

Colwill was the name that kept being brought up a couple of weeks back, but it seemed very unlikely then - seems nigh-on impossible now.

Makes me worry that we'll just stick with what we have in defence.

21.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 15:50:57
Are you saying some posters are fickle ArAy??.

22.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 16:01:21
Irish ("hiding-in-the-shadows-troublemaker"?), you know me very well. I would never dare to call out my fellow posters, from my favorite site. ?.

23.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 16:05:02
I think another DM and CB are equally important. I do these two first before adding another CM. My concern is we focus on DM and CM first. Focus should be on DM and CB first.

I think we all argue a lot but sometimes we are pretty close to the same hymm sheet. Eg. Oli and Connor probably both think a CB is required but are about to come to blows over the importance of friendlies even though Connors main point I think is we need a CB.

My point is that a CB is an urgent need even if we defended superbly in this friendly. Last season alone proved it. We are short of credible options for tough opposition. If there were no injuries in the world, sure. We are not too bad. But there are injuries in the world. CB is priority 1A. DM is priority 1B. CM is priority 2.

We are 2/ 3 players away from having a really strong squad. No need for the bickering. The management team just have to get the job done and we ll be flying.

24.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 16:31:45
ArAy, you know me well ?. I’ve just no time for Bullsh#ters ?.

25.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 16:37:05
ArAy1969, Im consistent. Preseason matches (which is what I'm talking about) didn't mean squat to me last season and it means squat to me now or will they ever mean anything. Darwin scored a quadruple vs RBL last season and I didn't care about it then, so why would I care about preseason games this season? Last season, our guys were simply not fit after preseason was over which is what affected us really, not the preseason games nor their performances within them.

And no, Im not saying nobody should comment on it either as my post to Connorslfc clearly states. All Im saying is that preseason games should not be used to start berating players for poor performances cos clearly some players start fast while others need more time to get up to speed. To me, preseason games are just that, preseason games which are glorified training sessions, IMO. That's my opinion. Others are free to disagree. Peace and Love.

26.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 16:50:39
Awk I'm not overly concerned about results in pre-season tbh, those games are primarily there to work on the fitness of everyone and give fringe players a chance to prove themselves

That being said, these games also serve to highlight some issues that have previously been seen in training or in the previous season - in this case, the 2nd string defence we have is worrying. This would emphasise the need for a new cb, which is what the club has already been looking at - and that's the thing, mistakes happen, goals are conceded and it shows what the club already know - starting cbs are very good, but there are concerns over their cover

That's what this game highlights for me guys, the back up defence is worrying. Sadly I'm not sure whether or not Gomez will ever recover his form pre-injury, Matip looks far too hit and miss these days and, given his age and the fact his contract expires after this season, would we sell now whilst we could still recoup a fee?

Adrian is a strange one too, I remember when he joined he played a right bit cos Allisson was injured and he looked solid enough at that time - what has happened him?

In fairness though that is what these games are for - give players a chance and assess those players and let them get their fitness, especially if we wish to return to a high press - in terms of results and overall performances though, I try not to get too invested. I used to, but way back when a certain Voronin looked amazing pre-season and I was so excited to see this guy in the league because of how good he was in the games I watched - and well we all know how that turned out ???.

27.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 17:04:18
Redwills1, I propose you read my post second response to the OP again cos majority of what you are saying I said, I did not even say. You're the one saying training is or is not important. I did not. You're the one going after players and dooming and glooming cos Tsimikas could not execute the inverted role (something I could have told you he would fail at) or Matip, Adrian, Gomez and the kids making mistakes in a preseason game. I did not. Im not the one drawing hasty conclusions after the second preseason game. You are and you did all this on your own. Strange, isn't it.

Listen, feel free to doom and gloom (and write your essays) as you wish and go after players based on the second glorified training session of the preseason. Im not bothered about it under the clear circumstances which makes drawing any type of credible conclusion good or bad, futile and a waste of time, IMO.

28.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 17:44:20
Embarrassing reading these posts demanding signings and wholesale changes constantly.
Ever heard of patience and supporting your team?

29.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 17:53:03
I just think these sort of pre season games are pointless. Not saying pre season games are pointless. but the opposition should be much better than played so far. Not challenging any1 isn't pushing any1.
On a side note gomez and matip could both go for me, and keeping adrian was a waste of time.

30.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 17:55:36
Erm I propose you reread your post because you clearly keep saying pre season games are 'glorified training sessions' and 'worthless'. This quite clearly indicates you feel that training sessions aren't important and training sessions against other teams where you actually get to see if the training is working is worthless.

It's strange how Doak managed to look so assured and stake his claim and virgil and konate managed to look solid (not exactly impressive) against a terrible team and matip and gomez managed to look so shakey (quite worrying to me at least) against the same terrible team. If you don't think that means anything and the whole thing is pointless then I hope you're not wasting your time watching it? Or commenting about it on other people's posts and therefor wasting your own time.

31.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 18:30:02
It’s a free society. Anyone who wishes to stress about pre-season games has every right to do so. If you take today’s game. Two thirds of our squad had valuable time in a practice match. Get’s match fitness into the squad’s legs and sharpens up their reactions in a real game situation. If we want back and played the same team when the players are physically and match fit the result would be a lot different. If we’d played our fully fit first team for 90 minutes today the result would have been a cricket score. So some of us should also be allowed to think (and to express our thoughts) that whilst a win in a pre-season friendly is a ‘good thing’ it’s probably secondary to getting players ready for the new season when results do actually matter.

Anyway, we have the same conversation every pre-season, so it’s reassuring to see that the forum is on track for another good season.

32.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 19:11:16
The 1987/ 88 team got thumped 5-1 in pre-season by A. Madrid.

They were OK at the start of the season, win the league by the beginning of April.

33.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 19:23:50
Olired, while I was not specifically referring only to you (that's why I used the plural "we") you are certainly consistent, I'll give you that. I clearly remember you saying pretty much the same things after almost each pre-season game last year (if memmory serves correctly, you said "I've watched one game only - Salzburg- and it's enough for me" - today you are saying "they were not fit") .

My point is that there are those of us who don't necessarily share your viewpoints. Yes, maybe they are glorified training sessions, so don't mind if we watch and then comment over here. If I had visual access to the U18's, U23's games, and Ladies games, I would come on here and comment on them too. Yes many of us will feel doom and gloom over non-consequential games but let us do it. And if Matip and Gomez stunk up the place today then let us say that they did. Berating those two players? I don't think so. Berating their performance for the day? Certainly and definitely. You can even add Tsimikas to the list for today.

It's fine if you think Liverpool football is only about games where either 3 points are involved or knocking out an oponent to proceed to the next stage. There are those of us who don't agree.

And about the "essays". We posters are like footballers in preseason training. Some of us take "longer time " to express ourselves. ?.

34.) 24 Jul 2023
24 Jul 2023 21:38:45
ArAy, I like apples and I also like oranges. If I’m going to eat an apple I expect a certain taste. If I expect an orange I expect a certain taste - they are different tastes but they are different tastes. Apples and oranges are both enjoyable but in their own context. Same with pre-season friendlies and champions league matches. Within their context they can both be enjoyable but they are both different things. The problem I have is that people (sometimes including my good self) ignore context and carry the same set of expectations into a game no matter what. The upshot tends to be that things get judged (usually in a detrimental fashion) out of context. Anyway, let’s crack on to the next one, eh?

35.) 25 Jul 2023
25 Jul 2023 00:40:53
WDW, I see what you're saying and it's got me thinking deeper into the matter. I prefer mangoes myself, they're my favorite, what's your point of view on their taste? ?.

36.) 25 Jul 2023
25 Jul 2023 00:58:17
ya play pre-season to practice combinations, game plans and importantly improve fitness and sharpness. The results really don't matter. If we'd won 15-0, it wouldn't matter.

What would be important would be how we played together. I like the inter-play from midfield to attack, it is looking a lot more fluid and I think Mac Allister adds that kind of swag to how we move the ball one-touch, playing different angles etc.

I was interested to see that, even with Bradley at RB and Trent as the 6, we still played the hybrid role. Seems to be here to stay regardless of the personnel. I'm not sold myself, but hey it gets Trent into areas where he can be more influential, so that is a positive.

People fretting about the defense need to look at how we play. it isn't always just 1 on 1 defending, whilst obviously that is helpful as a backstop, ultimately we defend as a team. Turn the ball over in dangerous positions like we did and any team will be scrambling. The defense is more dependent on how in sync we are from the front to the back, not just relying on 2 CBs to stop the tsunami of attackers flying at them.

37.) 25 Jul 2023
25 Jul 2023 03:44:27
@ArAy, I prefer figs and mandarins - although that. ’s me being lazy as they grow in our back garden.