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22 Jun 2013 11:38:16
Hi Eds and Red. Is it fair to suggest that the transfer budget has been used on these first four signings and that future player purchases will be dependent on player sales? If so, do you believe all monies made from sales would be made available for purchases? Thanks {Ed002's Note - I don't want to get in to the finances as it causes confusion as folks seem to struggle with anything other than the fee itself. What is paid would typically include:

(a) Transfer fee - the big number including any levy applied by the local FA.
(b) Tax due on the transfer fee – typically this will be VAT (at varying rates across Europe) some or all of which should be reclaimable.
(c) Agent fees – this may be to one or more agents.
(d) Tax due on the agent fees – typically this is VAT at the local rate where the agent bills from – it is not reclaimable.
(e) Intermediary fees – this may be to one or more sponging leeches.
(f) Tax due on the Intermediary fees – typically this is VAT at the local rate where the Intermediary bills from – it is not reclaimable.
(g) Signing on fee to the player (possibly including non-reclaimable VAT if the player is VAT registered)
(h) Variables and tax on variables which may or may not be reclaimable) – these would typically include legal fees, moving/relocation costs, paying up insurance costs on the player, football association fees, signing on fee etc.. This was off the top of my head and I may well have forgotten something. The big numbers are the transfer fee, agent fees (as an example, Liverpool have spent £25M plus VAT on agent fees over the past three years) and possibly other intermediary fees (what do you mean you have a super agent?}

BobbyF

1.) Super Agent. now that's a cool job!


2.) God agents are money-grabbing *****


3.) Thanks for this insight to how it works and costs involved Ed0002 eye opener.
chris


4.) Id love to go for a drink with you ed002 your a very knowledgeable person indeed


 

 

 

BobbyF's banter posts with other poster's replies to BobbyF's banter posts

 

14 Sep 2017 00:11:48
When winning 2 league titles and getting to a champions league final, were Klopp's Dortmund side as rubbish defensively as we are?

BobbyF

1.) 14 Sep 2017 05:19:36
He had a point to prove back then. Now he has simply been put on a pedestal by us LFC fans and treated like some war hero who can do no wrong. The defensive issues have been completely ignored and Klopp refuses to alter his style in spite of himself claiming there are very few players that can fit into his ideologies.
He had Hummels and an in-form Subotic back then. At LFC, he thinks Matip, Klavan and Lovren are reincarnations of his BVB defenders. How wrong he is. BVB had a perfect blend of attack and defence, but Klopp seems to have lost his way since joining LFC.

{Ed001's Note - who made Hummels into the player he was? According to Hummels it was Klopp. Subotic credits Klopp for his form as well. I guess you missed that. If you are not going to do your research, then you are just going to continue to make idiotic comments from a biased viewpoint. It is clear you have a personal issue with Klopp and that you are against him.}


2.) 14 Sep 2017 05:27:38
Sometimes Mats Hummels was caught napping and made mistakes, but their whole team performance was not as bad as ours, so poor Lovren :)


3.) 14 Sep 2017 05:40:17
Ed,
Correct me if I'm wrong, again, but wasn't Hummels a failing (defensive) midfielder at one point before he was "turned into" a centre back?
Is there no player at LFC who could undergo this conversion and was it Klopp who "trained" Hummels in the ways of defending?
For the first question I'm wondering about the likes of Grujic, Ejaria or even Can. They're all big lumps but are clearly not defenders at the moment. Grujic is going to lose his work permit, Ejaria is not getting regular football and Can is worried about getting game time. Maybe Can is a bad choice as he might not want to play there. Converting from being a midfielder to being a defender must be difficult, how do you teach a player about "new" positioning and reading the game? Did Hummels just have it "in built" or did someone develop it in his game and can't we get them to do it at LFC?
I appreciate in Germany said convert would get more time and patience to bed into the role 😄.

{Ed001's Note - Ejaria is not a big lump mate. Can will almost certainly leave and wants to play in midfield. Grujic is not defensive minded at all. I don't really see anyone he can do that with. Yes it was Klopp who worked with Hummels, the lad gave about 40 interviews talking about it after Klopp first left.}


4.) 14 Sep 2017 05:42:21
No one puts Klopp on a pedestal, most of us know he is not perfect but we support him because he is our manager.


5.) 14 Sep 2017 05:47:24
Personal issue against Klopp? I was probably one of the most elated fan when we appointed him. Hell I wanted him over Ancelotti as well.
But that trust comes with the manager backing up the faith shown in him through team performances. If the players are not able to repeat their tactical drills on match day, why has Klopp not done anything about it? Its been 2 seasons now hasn't it?
Yes, he made Hummels and Subotic what they are today but clearly its blatantly obvious that was not going to happen with Klavan and Lovren. You cannot build each and every player to the expectations of a football club. If they are not good enough, get rid and sign better ones.
And the GK fiasco? Oh dear God is all I have to say and I am an atheist.

{Ed001's Note - for heaven's sake! It takes time to build a team when you do not have unlimited money to buy one like City do. 2 seasons is nothing. Modern day fans are so fickle.}


6.) 14 Sep 2017 05:54:27
At BVB he had world class players all over the pitch for a few years and during those few years he won everything possible. The moment he sold Lewandowski and Gotze his side started to crumble. There is no comparison between Hummel to Klavan, Lovren and Matip! Like every manager in the world he too need WC players!

{Ed001's Note - he made them world class.}


7.) 14 Sep 2017 06:09:09
Thanks Ed,
Ejaria always looks like a big lump to me, but I guess he's not big for a defender.
So Klopp helped develop Hummels (a midfielder) to convert into being a pretty solid classy defender who played for the world champions. My follow up question is how come he can't develop Lovren and Matip to the same degree? Is it the case that Hummels always had the ability/ attributes and Lovren/ Matip don't? Or is it just far more difficult/ different to be a central defender in England and would Hummels find it much more difficult?
Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - you are right in what you say, it is more difficult, but the main differences are age and willingness/ability to learn. Hummels was young and willing to learn with the ability to do so, Lovren and Matip just aren't. Hummels did have a lot of the basic attributes to succeed as well. However it is difficult to see the fans giving a player the time to learn here. You only have to look at the reaction to TAA's performance at the weekend. No one has any understanding for young players learning a role.
By the way, the big question should be why does our recruitment team not come up with suitable alternatives? I mean Leicester under Walsh had a deal set up for Kante when Ranieri arrived he put it on hold as he was not convinced. They went for alternatives, none could be got and Walsh kept working on Ranieri every time he saw him to convince him of Kante, leaving him footage of the lad playing, constantly talking about him etc until he convinced Ranieri. Twentyman used to do a similar thing when he was our scout, he would sell the players to the manager, until they were convinced to move for them. Why do we have no one doing that at the club now? If they do not trust their judgement enough to put their job on the line by putting players forward, then they should not be in the role!}


8.) 14 Sep 2017 06:38:48
Cheers ed, I lost faith with our recruitment team years ago. We're good at recruiting attacking players - Mane, Salah, Firmino, Keita. Just not good at finding players with the abilities needed to defend in the premier league. Did Van Dijk improve that much since his Celtic days?

{Ed001's Note - personally I do not rate him at all, he has that Matip lazy streak which annoys me. Amazing how players like that can bring the ball out from the back with the pace of a scalded cat but chase back with the pace of a sleeping tortoise.}


9.) 14 Sep 2017 07:04:46
Gomez is that player Ed - think he could be moulded into something special. We should really leave RB to Milner and TAA and put Gomez and Matip together for an extended period. Leave Lovren and Klavan to play vs slower attacks or in cup games (lovrens also always looked better at RB IMO) .

The other issue is also GK and FBs, we need a more defensive minded LB and to stick with on keeper (should be Karius) .

I do think if Klopps got anything wrong he's not making any concession for the teams weaknesses. Don't know why. perhaps he figures get the team playing the way he wants the slot this missing pieces in defence in later. but I wish he'd play Robertson at LB and tell him to play a more cautious game, then play more of a 4-2-1-3 and two deep midfielders to protect the back 4, then play Gomez at RB. I'm pretty sure we'd still create loads of goals with our front 3 and Coutinho in behind them.

Yes I know Robertson is essentially an attacking LB too, but fundamentally he looks more balanced than Moreno.

{Ed001's Note - we can't have Milner at full back, he was awful at the end of last season because teams worked him out. He and Clyne were the players teams were targeting. Which says a lot when we had Matip and Lovren at the back....}


10.) 14 Sep 2017 07:05:34
Ejaria, Can and Grujic are all attack minded players, and not particularly very intelligent off the ball. Grujic tends to slack off when the opposition has the ball and Ejaria is just not ready. Can is as good as gone. I think he wants regular game time as a B2B midfielder and Klopp won't give him that. Gomez is our best bet at the moment till some decent CBs are targeted by Klopp. Jose Gimenez and De Vrij (a bit weak physically) are out of contract in the summer. Manolas is another CB with a mean streak and would do well in Klopp's system.
Not sure why VVD at 60 million is such an attractive prospect for Klopp. He is just like Matip but more of a physical specimen. That's what worries me about Klopp. He seems to be targeting these players good on the ball but not very good in their defensive duties. VVD falls into that bracket.


11.) 14 Sep 2017 08:02:37
Harry, what world class players did Klopp have at BVB? You mean the ones he himself create? Nonsense. If you don't know anything about Klopp's BVB, then go do your research cos I have. Years ago, Hummels was at the Bayern academy BUT could not break into the first team with Lucio and the rest at CB. He went to BVB on loan and when Bayern wanted him back, he told them to get lost and that he would not come back as he loved it at BVB. Hummels owes everything to Klop. Same with Subotic who he had at Mainz before he went to BVB with him. Lewandowski was signed for 4m from Polish football and he had to wait his turn as Lucas Barrios was the starter. After Barrios left, he became the starter and the rest is history. He too, owes his world class status to Klopp. He created Lewandowski, Gotze, Kagawa (who he got from the Japanese SECOND division) Reus (who he sold but signed back) Kuba, Bender, Perisic, Scmelzer and the rest.

IB, no one is putting Klopp on any pedestal so that is nonsense. He is our manager and tho imperfect and fallible, I will not trade him for anyone. The team is not the finished article yet as he wants to change the CB's and make the team stronger. You can't do that in one window. The problem may be that the scouting dept. is not doing it's job, as Ed said. We have to stick with what we have cos we will not be dropping 300m on CB's and defenders anytime soon.


12.) 14 Sep 2017 07:48:38
@IB

Coz VVD wins headers something our entire team doesn't! VVD is a physical monster against one on one opponents. VVD has excellent pace to track back and play up front of the defense. VVD is one of the best ball playing defender in the league. VVD is technically head and shoulders ahead of what we have! VVD will deal with all the first time ball that's thrown at our defense!

{Ed025's Note - im with you on that harry, hes excellent for me and would improve liverpool massively mate..


13.) 14 Sep 2017 07:55:25
Jose Jimenez is suspect in the air and doesn't speak a word of English.


14.) 14 Sep 2017 08:28:40
I have kind of had enough of the constant mistakes from both CBS if it was me Ed I would put Gomez at CB with Matip and have TAA, Flanno Rotate for RB, Moreno and Roberston for LB its worth a punt we need to see how Gomez performs and then get behind them its not working with Lovren and Matip, at least with Gomez he has the youth on his side like Hummels to learn from his mistakes what do you think Ed01? I would even but Masterson in even tho he is 18 he looks a good player.

{Ed001's Note - I was saying before the season started I would go with Gomez, nothing I have seen has changed that opinion.}


15.) 14 Sep 2017 09:11:22
Couple of months back there was a report of klopp in echo what BVB fans think about him. You can easily find if you want.


You'll be shocked to see a lot of BVB fans don't rate him despite winning trophies there.

{Ed001's Note - the same Dortmund fans that had a campaign to persuade him to stay you mean? The same Dortmund fans that never stopped singing his name even when his final season saw them off the pace? I doubt the Echo would have a bloody clue what Dortmund fans think to be honest. Since it became a part of the Mirror group it has been nothing but a rag.}


16.) 14 Sep 2017 12:27:23
Kopite, none of that crap is true about Klopp and BVB. He is revered over there as a god who gave them their dignity back after being the punch line of German football. Just take a look at the welcome he received when he went there. A majority of the fans would take him back tmrw if he ever wanted to come back. Don't believe anything you read about Klopp in the rag media, bro. It is bullocks. I propose you do your own research as many of us have done.


17.) 14 Sep 2017 16:50:39
"Amazing how players like that can bring the ball out from the back with the pace of a scalded cat but chase back with the pace of a sleeping tortoise"

This killed me ed1 xD but its true, I never understood why quite a lot of center half's are faster with the ball than without. Yet every other player is slower with the ball.
When Matip runs with the ball, every step he takes he covers about 10 yards (bit dramatic), but when tracking back to defend. Well he is never back far enough which is weird considering the only player who should be behind him is the GK, not half our team xD

The only other player I can think to compare his weird speed glitch too. is Kaka. Just a shame that’s where the comparison stops 😓.


 

 

01 Sep 2017 19:35:58
On the assumption that he isn't sold tonight, can anyone see Coutinho, or Alexis Sanchez for that matter, do a Diego Costa and have an extended break on South America?

BobbyF

1.) 01 Sep 2017 21:03:44
I don't see it. Cou is not that type of guy and his team mates love him regardless. Sanchez is diff. as his own team mates want him gone due to his attitude and slagging them off on the pitch with the whole world watching. Costa has a personal issue with Conte and both can't stand each other so that is a lot of male pride going on there. Can't really see a way out for Costa really.


2.) 01 Sep 2017 23:26:47
Couts is not that kind of guy? What does he have to add to his recent list of indiscretions to say he is that kind if guy?


 

 

30 Aug 2017 01:25:12
AOC turns down Chelsea apparently. Is there anything to read into this (i. e. Giving up on Lemar and now looking to AIC)?

BobbyF

1.) 30 Aug 2017 05:18:18
OX doesn't want to be another Mosses! He wants to be a Steven Gerrard lol!


 

 

16 Aug 2017 13:20:47
Ed001 and fellow reds, just want your take on what has happened between the end of last season and the beginning of this?
At the end of last season we looked and were significantly more solid - recording a number of clean sheets on the run in and with only one defeat in our last 10 or so games. Yet this season, the same players look all over the place again.
Is it just rustiness or hare we doing something materially different?

BobbyF

{Ed001's Note - looks like rustiness.}


 

 

13 Aug 2017 20:36:56
I am not advocating sacking Klopp but wanted to gauge opinion. Do you prefer the style of football we play; good attacking flair but crippled by defensive frailties, or would you prefer the approach adopted by someone like Simeone; a more pragmatic approach built on a solid defensive unit, but less likely to get you out of your seat?
For me, I want to see us win and if that means losing some flair in exchange for regular cleans sheets, I think I would take it - despite loving some of the football we play at times.

BobbyF

1.) 13 Aug 2017 21:05:29
Bobby, it is a fine line we have to walk regarding attacking flair and defensive steel. We are who we are. We are built to attack and we are darn awesome at it and would not change it for nothing as our players are not built for this. Our system may need to be tweaked defensively to mitigate against allowing attacks.

Also, you have to look at the nos. Yesterday, Watford only had 3 shots on target from open play. That is darn good defensive work away from home. We scored 3 goals and could have scored 5 had we taken our chances. That is how darn good we are offensively. But as we all know in football, set pieces are the greatest equalizer and that is how we blew the game.

Our defensive setup on set pieces was crap from the jump plus, if you have players who lack the leadership and bottle to attack crosses, remaining static when the ball is in the air whereas the opposition already has a running start on you, don't be shocked when you concede. VVD will not help you here. The setup and leadership qualities is what is at fault here esp. with players not taking charge of clearing the ball efficiently when it gets to them.


2.) 13 Aug 2017 21:02:49
Not at all, i think the football we play is what sets us apart from teams like chelsea and utd.

For longer than i can remember 3 of my mates (all utd) have been crying about the boring style of football their team has been playing.

We might have defensive problems and we may have only won 1 league cup in the last 10 years but i love watching my team slaughter the likes of city, spurs and arsenal with our high tempo fast flowing football.

I think poor defending is easier to fix than poor attack.


3.) 13 Aug 2017 21:37:33
Proof that any system works is shown by trophies and progress. Last year we got 4th, that's progress.

Can we build on that? Not if we lose key players and don't strengthen where weak.

Have we done that? As of yet, for me, the answer is no and we saw signs of the same mistakes and defensive frailties on Saturday.

If we don't have the quality players we have to change system. With Mane and Salah's pace do we have the perfect players for a strong defensive set up and hit on break?


4.) 13 Aug 2017 22:17:48
I like how we play. I just don't like how we've recruited. we don't often have a succession plan that is good enough to build on top of whichever player is heading out the door.
We've struggled to identify players who can play our style and also have that strength of character to pull us out of these kinds of lapses of concentration. I think we have genuinely good guys in the team who are genuine fighters at what they do best. But everyone's resilience is tested best when faced with trauma, and our guys haven't been able to consistently step up to the mark. It means we can compete, but that ultimately we're constantly fighting an uphill battle. cos eventually poor form and injuries will come, then it becomes about the leaders in the team who can pull us through. my view is that we haven't thought through that aspect of the recruiting very well.


5.) 13 Aug 2017 23:26:41
If we ever started playing defensively I guarantee the chants around the stadium will be
"Attack, attack. Attack attack attack. " which we haven't heard for some years now 😂
I myself love goal galore games because it is entertaining. Our defence being so brittle and conceding so many goals keeps my heart rate metabolism extremely high and the goals we score bring joy after joy.


 

 

 

BobbyF's rumour replies

 

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30 Aug 2017 20:58:45
That's it Mr Dennis, get behind the lad before he has joined.
Could it be that he wasn't best utilised at Arsenal, could it be that the development he gets with us will result improvements to his game?
Shocking that a player is written off as hopeless before he has joined.
Konchesky, Poulsen, Jovanovic - these are examples of shockingly bad signings (judged after a number of games for the club) . I firmly believe AOC is better than all of these and I, for one, will be delighted for the lad if he rams all those negative posts down people's throats. He obviously wanted to join us from a while back and I expect he will be very motivated to perform.
Welcome to Liverpool, Alex. Some of us are pleased to see you and won't judge your performances for the club until you have had a chance to play a few games and settle in.

BobbyF

 

 

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30 Aug 2017 18:20:18
Agree with Paisley. He obviously wants to join us - let's make him feel welcome. With a consistent run of games and part of a midfield 3 he could show a greater level to his game than he did at Arsenal.
I am fully behind the lad.

BobbyF

 

 

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26 Aug 2017 15:24:25
Lmao - love that picture of the car Macca flogged. Hope it comes with a full years mot. If rumours are to be believed, we would have paid a pretty penny for this runaround and wouldn't want to see it parked in the garage all through the winter.

BobbyF

 

 

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23 Aug 2017 18:13:48
What is the relevance of the 'away' strip? Could it be Coutinho going away? Or could it be 'go away barcelona'?
Too cryptic. we need a dog whisperer.

BobbyF

 

 

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16 Aug 2017 21:45:55
I thought the unwritten rule was never to have a United player in your team, let alone one captaining it!

BobbyF

 

 

 

BobbyF's banter replies

 

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06 Sep 2017 21:39:21
In case the link in my previous post can't be published, I have worked it out to be roughly 20, 579 days (not including leap years) . To keep it simple - 56 years, 4 months and 19 days.

BobbyF

 

 

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06 Sep 2017 21:23:55
Injury was the only thing that prevented Lallana getting injured during the current round of internationals.

BobbyF

 

 

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05 Sep 2017 18:32:34
No room for Stevie Nicol Ed? Wasn't he football writers player of the year in 88/ 89? In fact, has any other full back won that of the PFA footballer of the year awards?

BobbyF

{Ed001's Note - Nicol played midfield and left back as well, I nearly put him in as the left back because he was an awesome player but Jones is the best right back of my lifetime without a doubt.}


 

 

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04 Sep 2017 22:01:46
Steer clear of Spearmint Rhino - on the face of it it's tits and bum but was as dodgy as hell.

As for the football, should be plenty of bars showing it. I recall watching Betis v Liverpool in a champions league group game in one of the bars in the airport.

Have a great time - if you stay in the tourist areas you'll have a great time.

BobbyF

 

 

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31 Aug 2017 21:37:53
AL, in what way are FSG keeping the wallet closed?
For me £92million for Lemar is a huge risk on someone who has only broken through in the last 12 months - nearly double what we will pay for our record signing Keita. Yes, in 12 more months it might prove a bargain, but I understand why we wouldn't go back in at that level.
No one can accuse of FSG keeping the wallet closed. If we had been more professional in our actions we would have a £50 odd million defender also on our books.
Not FSGs fault.

BobbyF