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22 Jun 2013 11:38:16
Hi Eds and Red. Is it fair to suggest that the transfer budget has been used on these first four signings and that future player purchases will be dependent on player sales? If so, do you believe all monies made from sales would be made available for purchases? Thanks {Ed002's Note - I don't want to get in to the finances as it causes confusion as folks seem to struggle with anything other than the fee itself. What is paid would typically include:

(a) Transfer fee - the big number including any levy applied by the local FA.
(b) Tax due on the transfer fee – typically this will be VAT (at varying rates across Europe) some or all of which should be reclaimable.
(c) Agent fees – this may be to one or more agents.
(d) Tax due on the agent fees – typically this is VAT at the local rate where the agent bills from – it is not reclaimable.
(e) Intermediary fees – this may be to one or more sponging leeches.
(f) Tax due on the Intermediary fees – typically this is VAT at the local rate where the Intermediary bills from – it is not reclaimable.
(g) Signing on fee to the player (possibly including non-reclaimable VAT if the player is VAT registered)
(h) Variables and tax on variables which may or may not be reclaimable) – these would typically include legal fees, moving/relocation costs, paying up insurance costs on the player, football association fees, signing on fee etc.. This was off the top of my head and I may well have forgotten something. The big numbers are the transfer fee, agent fees (as an example, Liverpool have spent £25M plus VAT on agent fees over the past three years) and possibly other intermediary fees (what do you mean you have a super agent?}

BobbyF

1.) Super Agent. now that's a cool job!


2.) God agents are money-grabbing *****


3.) Thanks for this insight to how it works and costs involved Ed0002 eye opener.
chris


4.) Id love to go for a drink with you ed002 your a very knowledgeable person indeed


 

 

 

BobbyF's banter posts with other poster's replies to BobbyF's banter posts

 

30 May 2018 13:54:01
Reds and Eds - you are allowed one further signing for LFC, so who is it?

Having made improvements defensively over recent months I think it is crucial to keep that going so, for me it has to be a gk. My choice, purely because I think he is the better keeper, is Oblak.

BobbyF

1.) 30 May 2018 13:57:25
Fekir.


2.) 30 May 2018 14:08:43
We need 2 - a GK and a pacy attacker/ wide forward so we don’t have to change our game plan when Mane or Salah are rested/ injured.

Of the two I’d have previously gone for the forward, but I don’t think Karius can start with confidence after the CL final, so I think i would go for the GK if forced to choose. It would also be the position that would improve our first 11 the most, and we could use Wilson to rest our front three until Jan.

Oh and did I say we need another pacy attacker/ wide forward?


3.) 30 May 2018 14:10:06
On the basis that players can register with 3 clubs within a season (not sure what the rule is, someone will put me right! ), I'd love to sign Messi on a free transfer.

Then sell him on to PSG for £400m, and invest that money wisely in people like Fekir, Alisson, Dembele, Alderwereild, etc ;-)

Failing that I'd choose Alisson. Purely as Ed001 has said that he better suits our game than Oblak, who is more used to sitting behind a team than defends first. I'd also like to add to our Brazilian contingent as that will hopefully mean they'll never leave! Samba boys!


4.) 30 May 2018 14:38:22
SGR the perfect pacy wide forward for backup/ rotation imo would be Malcom.
But the question was if you could only have one.
We don't have a really creative midfielder, which we do need to turn some of those draws into wins. That's why I'd actually pick Fekir over Alisson and just go with Karius + Ward between the sticks.


5.) 30 May 2018 14:40:22
Zed, you're definitely smoking something. 😵 . (pass it around 😁)


6.) 30 May 2018 14:47:23
Fekir for me. We can win every game 6-5 for all I care, after all this is hypothetical fantasy land.


7.) 30 May 2018 15:01:46
Allisson
Fekir
Leon Bailey
League title 19.


8.) 30 May 2018 15:48:31
Its a bit like the "you have one wish" thing, Ra.

Always, but always, use that one wish to wish for more wishes!


9.) 30 May 2018 16:45:45
lol Harry, only £200 mil more then?


10.) 30 May 2018 17:08:29
I wouldn’t mind that Jurgen to be fair. it’s a close call, let’s hope we get both!


11.) 30 May 2018 18:55:26
Butland or Ali I can't decide both are better than we currently have.


 

 

28 May 2018 12:23:46
Ok let's try to get our minds off Saturday.

With teams commonly having do mine in charge of pre match music in the changing room, I was wondering what would be your choice if pre match tunes if you were in charge of the stereo/ I pod/ gramaphone Tec?

Especially interested in Ed002 answer as this could be fascinating. For me, heavy metal football deserves something like Iron Maiden.

Ed025, if you are playing along no Z cars or The Farm please.

BobbyF

{Ed002's Note - I am sure others will have ideas.}


1.) 28 May 2018 12:52:56
Stuff like 'Enter sandman' by Metallica. Imagine that blasting, it'd get everybody hyped up. Also ' Jump around' by House of pain, youtube 'house of pain jump around wisconsin' it had them bouncing. I'd love to see Anfield like that.


2.) 28 May 2018 13:37:29
I'd have Freebird. Play it so that the boys are just leaving the changing room as it gets wild.


3.) 28 May 2018 14:29:02
Liverpool - Welcome to the jungle (Guns n Roses), we’ve got fun and games

Man City - Money Talks (AC/ DC), same football style, different message

Man Utd - get out of your own way (U2), used to be rock and roll royalty but now just a bit boring. title speaks for itself

Chelsea - Plastic Zoo (Ginjack), enough said

Tottenham - Don’t get me wrong (Pretenders), great music but it’s not rock and roll, is it? Band name sums it up really.

Arsenal - I can’t get no satisfaction (Rolling Stones), definitely Rock and Roll but can’t help but think the lead singer has stayed on past his retirement. What started as a rock song is starting to sound like a plea for mercy.

Everton - As you were (Liam Gallagher), not bad, but let’s face it he’s not as good as his brother is he 😉.


4.) 28 May 2018 14:52:55
Rage against the machine, just outclassed interstellar overdrive by about 20 years but very very close.


5.) 28 May 2018 17:16:40
Oasis rock n roll star.


6.) 31 May 2018 15:11:42
lol great list SGRed. I'd go with Metallica's Metal Militia for Liverpool.


 

 

26 May 2018 23:49:28
Based on the starting XIs we could match any team in the world, but the two benches highlighted why we are not able to win things just yet.
This summer is vital in terms of recruiting top class talent to improve both the first team and squad as a whole.
Gutted for the boys. Mo's injury clearly affected the team and swung the game in Reals favour. As much as I feel for Karius, there is no getting away from the fact that the errors cost us the game. Without them we may still not have one but it certainly would have been much more in the balance. Unfortunately, for the lad, on the biggest stage, we have seen that he probably hasn't got what it takes to play at the highest level.
I can't really fault any of the outfield players and thought they all played with heart and passion and for that I am proud of them
Hopefully, next season will see 3-4 top quality additions, another journey across Europe and an opportunity to put right what went wrong tonight.
I feel we are at the dawning of a period of success for the club. I believe boys.

BobbyF

{Ed0333's Note - great post Bobby. Totally agree with your sentiments.


1.) 27 May 2018 02:10:13
Exactly, if Mo goes off to be replaced by Bale its a different story isn't it? Lallana isn't a winger - we have played with two top wingers all season, i think dealing with this change killed us. It seemed Marcelo got more adventurous, probably not because he was less worried about Mane than Salah, he just knew that Varane and Ramos would find it much easier to cover Mane than when they had to worry about Salah too, same on the other side, i don't think nacho worried too much about Lallana.


 

 

31 Dec 2017 15:04:54
Is it possible for Barcelona to sign Coutinho in Jan, but agree to a loan back for the remainder of the season? They get the player they want and we keep his momentum for the rest of the season? Something similar to the Mbappe deal with PSG?

BobbyF

{Ed002's Note - Yes but that is not the deal with Mbappe.}


1.) 31 Dec 2017 15:15:26
What’s this Mbappe deal? PSG signed him and he’s playing.

{Ed002's Note - No. Take it to the European pages.}


2.) 31 Dec 2017 16:29:49
PSG have an option to buy at the end of the loan. You’re talking about Coutinho agreeing to move but staying put on loan. Opposite to Mbappe. It’s more similar to Keita.


3.) 31 Dec 2017 17:23:01
It’s not really an option to buy isn’t it a duty to buy?


4.) 31 Dec 2017 17:32:01
A Keita style deal may be a decent compromise here but probably won't happen. Barcelona look to be in control of the league and Coutinho can't play in the CL for them so agree a fee and leave him here with us to help us qualify for the CL again in 2018. Win win all round I reckon. won't happen I guess.


5.) 01 Jan 2018 04:06:09
Apologies my explanation was a bit arse about face. Yes more similar to Keita. Barcelona do deal for Coutinho but he stays with us till end of season.
Think it would be good all round.


6.) 01 Jan 2018 11:37:15
Because if that were the case he'd be playing for Monaco and not psg wouldn't he. Dear me 🙈🙈.


 

 

14 Sep 2017 00:11:48
When winning 2 league titles and getting to a champions league final, were Klopp's Dortmund side as rubbish defensively as we are?

BobbyF

1.) 14 Sep 2017 05:19:36
He had a point to prove back then. Now he has simply been put on a pedestal by us LFC fans and treated like some war hero who can do no wrong. The defensive issues have been completely ignored and Klopp refuses to alter his style in spite of himself claiming there are very few players that can fit into his ideologies.
He had Hummels and an in-form Subotic back then. At LFC, he thinks Matip, Klavan and Lovren are reincarnations of his BVB defenders. How wrong he is. BVB had a perfect blend of attack and defence, but Klopp seems to have lost his way since joining LFC.

{Ed001's Note - who made Hummels into the player he was? According to Hummels it was Klopp. Subotic credits Klopp for his form as well. I guess you missed that. If you are not going to do your research, then you are just going to continue to make idiotic comments from a biased viewpoint. It is clear you have a personal issue with Klopp and that you are against him.}


2.) 14 Sep 2017 05:27:38
Sometimes Mats Hummels was caught napping and made mistakes, but their whole team performance was not as bad as ours, so poor Lovren :)


3.) 14 Sep 2017 05:40:17
Ed,
Correct me if I'm wrong, again, but wasn't Hummels a failing (defensive) midfielder at one point before he was "turned into" a centre back?
Is there no player at LFC who could undergo this conversion and was it Klopp who "trained" Hummels in the ways of defending?
For the first question I'm wondering about the likes of Grujic, Ejaria or even Can. They're all big lumps but are clearly not defenders at the moment. Grujic is going to lose his work permit, Ejaria is not getting regular football and Can is worried about getting game time. Maybe Can is a bad choice as he might not want to play there. Converting from being a midfielder to being a defender must be difficult, how do you teach a player about "new" positioning and reading the game? Did Hummels just have it "in built" or did someone develop it in his game and can't we get them to do it at LFC?
I appreciate in Germany said convert would get more time and patience to bed into the role 😄.

{Ed001's Note - Ejaria is not a big lump mate. Can will almost certainly leave and wants to play in midfield. Grujic is not defensive minded at all. I don't really see anyone he can do that with. Yes it was Klopp who worked with Hummels, the lad gave about 40 interviews talking about it after Klopp first left.}


4.) 14 Sep 2017 05:42:21
No one puts Klopp on a pedestal, most of us know he is not perfect but we support him because he is our manager.


5.) 14 Sep 2017 05:47:24
Personal issue against Klopp? I was probably one of the most elated fan when we appointed him. Hell I wanted him over Ancelotti as well.
But that trust comes with the manager backing up the faith shown in him through team performances. If the players are not able to repeat their tactical drills on match day, why has Klopp not done anything about it? Its been 2 seasons now hasn't it?
Yes, he made Hummels and Subotic what they are today but clearly its blatantly obvious that was not going to happen with Klavan and Lovren. You cannot build each and every player to the expectations of a football club. If they are not good enough, get rid and sign better ones.
And the GK fiasco? Oh dear God is all I have to say and I am an atheist.

{Ed001's Note - for heaven's sake! It takes time to build a team when you do not have unlimited money to buy one like City do. 2 seasons is nothing. Modern day fans are so fickle.}


6.) 14 Sep 2017 05:54:27
At BVB he had world class players all over the pitch for a few years and during those few years he won everything possible. The moment he sold Lewandowski and Gotze his side started to crumble. There is no comparison between Hummel to Klavan, Lovren and Matip! Like every manager in the world he too need WC players!

{Ed001's Note - he made them world class.}


7.) 14 Sep 2017 06:09:09
Thanks Ed,
Ejaria always looks like a big lump to me, but I guess he's not big for a defender.
So Klopp helped develop Hummels (a midfielder) to convert into being a pretty solid classy defender who played for the world champions. My follow up question is how come he can't develop Lovren and Matip to the same degree? Is it the case that Hummels always had the ability/ attributes and Lovren/ Matip don't? Or is it just far more difficult/ different to be a central defender in England and would Hummels find it much more difficult?
Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - you are right in what you say, it is more difficult, but the main differences are age and willingness/ability to learn. Hummels was young and willing to learn with the ability to do so, Lovren and Matip just aren't. Hummels did have a lot of the basic attributes to succeed as well. However it is difficult to see the fans giving a player the time to learn here. You only have to look at the reaction to TAA's performance at the weekend. No one has any understanding for young players learning a role.
By the way, the big question should be why does our recruitment team not come up with suitable alternatives? I mean Leicester under Walsh had a deal set up for Kante when Ranieri arrived he put it on hold as he was not convinced. They went for alternatives, none could be got and Walsh kept working on Ranieri every time he saw him to convince him of Kante, leaving him footage of the lad playing, constantly talking about him etc until he convinced Ranieri. Twentyman used to do a similar thing when he was our scout, he would sell the players to the manager, until they were convinced to move for them. Why do we have no one doing that at the club now? If they do not trust their judgement enough to put their job on the line by putting players forward, then they should not be in the role!}


8.) 14 Sep 2017 06:38:48
Cheers ed, I lost faith with our recruitment team years ago. We're good at recruiting attacking players - Mane, Salah, Firmino, Keita. Just not good at finding players with the abilities needed to defend in the premier league. Did Van Dijk improve that much since his Celtic days?

{Ed001's Note - personally I do not rate him at all, he has that Matip lazy streak which annoys me. Amazing how players like that can bring the ball out from the back with the pace of a scalded cat but chase back with the pace of a sleeping tortoise.}


9.) 14 Sep 2017 07:04:46
Gomez is that player Ed - think he could be moulded into something special. We should really leave RB to Milner and TAA and put Gomez and Matip together for an extended period. Leave Lovren and Klavan to play vs slower attacks or in cup games (lovrens also always looked better at RB IMO) .

The other issue is also GK and FBs, we need a more defensive minded LB and to stick with on keeper (should be Karius) .

I do think if Klopps got anything wrong he's not making any concession for the teams weaknesses. Don't know why. perhaps he figures get the team playing the way he wants the slot this missing pieces in defence in later. but I wish he'd play Robertson at LB and tell him to play a more cautious game, then play more of a 4-2-1-3 and two deep midfielders to protect the back 4, then play Gomez at RB. I'm pretty sure we'd still create loads of goals with our front 3 and Coutinho in behind them.

Yes I know Robertson is essentially an attacking LB too, but fundamentally he looks more balanced than Moreno.

{Ed001's Note - we can't have Milner at full back, he was awful at the end of last season because teams worked him out. He and Clyne were the players teams were targeting. Which says a lot when we had Matip and Lovren at the back....}


10.) 14 Sep 2017 07:05:34
Ejaria, Can and Grujic are all attack minded players, and not particularly very intelligent off the ball. Grujic tends to slack off when the opposition has the ball and Ejaria is just not ready. Can is as good as gone. I think he wants regular game time as a B2B midfielder and Klopp won't give him that. Gomez is our best bet at the moment till some decent CBs are targeted by Klopp. Jose Gimenez and De Vrij (a bit weak physically) are out of contract in the summer. Manolas is another CB with a mean streak and would do well in Klopp's system.
Not sure why VVD at 60 million is such an attractive prospect for Klopp. He is just like Matip but more of a physical specimen. That's what worries me about Klopp. He seems to be targeting these players good on the ball but not very good in their defensive duties. VVD falls into that bracket.


11.) 14 Sep 2017 08:02:37
Harry, what world class players did Klopp have at BVB? You mean the ones he himself create? Nonsense. If you don't know anything about Klopp's BVB, then go do your research cos I have. Years ago, Hummels was at the Bayern academy BUT could not break into the first team with Lucio and the rest at CB. He went to BVB on loan and when Bayern wanted him back, he told them to get lost and that he would not come back as he loved it at BVB. Hummels owes everything to Klop. Same with Subotic who he had at Mainz before he went to BVB with him. Lewandowski was signed for 4m from Polish football and he had to wait his turn as Lucas Barrios was the starter. After Barrios left, he became the starter and the rest is history. He too, owes his world class status to Klopp. He created Lewandowski, Gotze, Kagawa (who he got from the Japanese SECOND division) Reus (who he sold but signed back) Kuba, Bender, Perisic, Scmelzer and the rest.

IB, no one is putting Klopp on any pedestal so that is nonsense. He is our manager and tho imperfect and fallible, I will not trade him for anyone. The team is not the finished article yet as he wants to change the CB's and make the team stronger. You can't do that in one window. The problem may be that the scouting dept. is not doing it's job, as Ed said. We have to stick with what we have cos we will not be dropping 300m on CB's and defenders anytime soon.


12.) 14 Sep 2017 07:48:38
@IB

Coz VVD wins headers something our entire team doesn't! VVD is a physical monster against one on one opponents. VVD has excellent pace to track back and play up front of the defense. VVD is one of the best ball playing defender in the league. VVD is technically head and shoulders ahead of what we have! VVD will deal with all the first time ball that's thrown at our defense!

{Ed025's Note - im with you on that harry, hes excellent for me and would improve liverpool massively mate..


13.) 14 Sep 2017 07:55:25
Jose Jimenez is suspect in the air and doesn't speak a word of English.


14.) 14 Sep 2017 08:28:40
I have kind of had enough of the constant mistakes from both CBS if it was me Ed I would put Gomez at CB with Matip and have TAA, Flanno Rotate for RB, Moreno and Roberston for LB its worth a punt we need to see how Gomez performs and then get behind them its not working with Lovren and Matip, at least with Gomez he has the youth on his side like Hummels to learn from his mistakes what do you think Ed01? I would even but Masterson in even tho he is 18 he looks a good player.

{Ed001's Note - I was saying before the season started I would go with Gomez, nothing I have seen has changed that opinion.}


15.) 14 Sep 2017 09:11:22
Couple of months back there was a report of klopp in echo what BVB fans think about him. You can easily find if you want.


You'll be shocked to see a lot of BVB fans don't rate him despite winning trophies there.

{Ed001's Note - the same Dortmund fans that had a campaign to persuade him to stay you mean? The same Dortmund fans that never stopped singing his name even when his final season saw them off the pace? I doubt the Echo would have a bloody clue what Dortmund fans think to be honest. Since it became a part of the Mirror group it has been nothing but a rag.}


16.) 14 Sep 2017 12:27:23
Kopite, none of that crap is true about Klopp and BVB. He is revered over there as a god who gave them their dignity back after being the punch line of German football. Just take a look at the welcome he received when he went there. A majority of the fans would take him back tmrw if he ever wanted to come back. Don't believe anything you read about Klopp in the rag media, bro. It is bullocks. I propose you do your own research as many of us have done.


17.) 14 Sep 2017 16:50:39
"Amazing how players like that can bring the ball out from the back with the pace of a scalded cat but chase back with the pace of a sleeping tortoise"

This killed me ed1 xD but its true, I never understood why quite a lot of center half's are faster with the ball than without. Yet every other player is slower with the ball.
When Matip runs with the ball, every step he takes he covers about 10 yards (bit dramatic), but when tracking back to defend. Well he is never back far enough which is weird considering the only player who should be behind him is the GK, not half our team xD

The only other player I can think to compare his weird speed glitch too. is Kaka. Just a shame that’s where the comparison stops 😓.


 

 

 

BobbyF's rumour replies

 

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31 Jan 2018 12:57:32
Altitude issues? Just as well our CL games is in Portugal and not Russia. Poor soul would have to do a Bergkamp and drive everywhere.

BobbyF

 

 

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03 Jan 2018 19:04:29
Duncan Castle full of tosh on everything. He can’t see past his Jose blinkers.

BobbyF

 

 

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03 Jan 2018 07:52:50
Lock96 - that isn’t even remotely funny. Please think before you post irresponsible messages. Yellow card offence.

BobbyF

 

 

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02 Jan 2018 19:22:40
NO thanks to Sanchez. Didn’t want to come when he had the chance originally and he hasn’t covered himself in glory with his current contract situation.

BobbyF

 

 

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02 Jan 2018 13:03:22
Could it, in fact, be Coutinho as the old friend moving back in for the remainder of the season, after signing for Barca?
Hope the Mascherano link is a misleading one. Spent enough time trying to get out the club. Donna rummy is wishful thinking in my opinion. Just wish Sparky could tell someone a secret.

BobbyF

 

 

 

BobbyF's banter replies

 

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11 Jun 2018 21:44:45
Ed002 have you ever written an autobiography - reckon that would be one hell of a read on my holiday?

BobbyF

{Ed002's Note - No, I have some questionable periods - like the lost summer in the Hollywood Hills with Father Yod in 1974.}


 

 

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11 Jun 2018 21:45:58
I knew we hit rock bottom when we were being linked to Carlton Cole.

BobbyF

 

 

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04 Jun 2018 07:50:12
That is said with hindsight though. Bruce's first 6 months were not convincing at all and in today's world of trial by social media the fans would have hounded him out by the January window.

BobbyF

 

 

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31 May 2018 01:54:32
I think redwillis has it right. When comparing both players in comparable sides this season they had fairly similar records. The main exception being is that Zaha is not considered the central striker where Origi is.
For me, they play different roles so goal stats is not necessarily the right bench mark to use. Based on what I have seen in sides at a similar level, Zaha is the better player, although I dislike his falling over of thin air. Frankly neither should be in our first team though.

BobbyF

{Ed001's Note - Zaha has played all season as a striker, very few games he played wide. Zaha has no end product except to run and run and run and hope to get someone brush him so he can throw himself to the ground for a penalty. His shooting is wildly inaccurate, as his crossing. If he leaves Palace, where the whole club is built around him, it would be a huge mistake.}


 

 

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28 May 2018 11:48:15
Ed002, would you consider the club's level is debt at a dangerously high one should we, for example, miss out on CL football for a season or two? How do we compare with other top 6 OK teams in terms of managing debt levels?
I take on board your point around the owners gambling on success but should our financial position give reason for us, as supporters, to temper our expectations with regard to high value signings thus summer? Thank you for your time and appreciate your insight.

BobbyF

{Ed002's Note - The owners made a clear statement that they can sustain servicing the debt but they cannot endlessly throw money at the club and must comply with FFP or take the consequences. Right now they are fine and only two English PL sides had an issue last season and both were related to wages and not expenditure or debt. The situation has been eased by the additional PL income and the club will continue to spend in search of success, but they need to stop taking on new debt.}