Liverpool Discussion posts 2

07 May 2024 19:58:39
Forget about whether Darwin can be more clinical or more consistent. The issue for me is the number of times he is offside. I don’t have any data but I would argue he has been offside more times this year than all of our forwards combined in the last 3 seasons. That for me is a lack of footballing intelligence. He must have been told over and over to time his runs.

07 May 2024 20:43:10
"I don't have any data"

Fortunately, or unfortunately for you, this data does exist and isn't actually that hard to find. In the Premier League this season, Nunez has been caught offside 32 times. That is a most in the league, which is a concern, but "offside more times this year than all of our (other) forwards combined over the last 3 seasons" is not surprisingly a massive exaggeration. In total, Diaz (16), Salah (14) and Gakpo (8) have been offside 38 times between them in the Prem this season. 38 is more than 32 last I checked, and I don't even have to add in Jota's offsides (surprisingly low at 3). And you can't argue something that's not even close to being factually correct.

I could go into the cups as well, but I think this is sufficient to illustrate the point.

Last season he was caught offside less than Salah (22 vs. 17) although adjusting for Salah's extra 300 minutes, that gap isn't really worth talking about.

07 May 2024 21:05:37
Watch his runs and watch how many times the ball went sideways or backwards instead of forward to him. Probably find them stats are responsible for half his offsides.

07 May 2024 22:05:40
Scouse John
Agree
They way we have played this season means forwards are making 3 or 4 turns no the same phase of play
At our pomp under Klopp it was ball into midfield and early pass through
Now we have to go backwards and sideways multiple times before playing forward

I think Darwin would do miles better if we got the ball forward earlier

His asset is his pace
We don’t play to that asset.

08 May 2024 07:49:39
Not kidding you, he was offside on Sunday from a harmless pass by Alisson.

People around were saying “What has the ref given there? ” Before someone said “Darwin was offside” incredulously.

Blame the speed of transition if you want but the lad needs to work on his game to be a forward for a top team. Composure and awareness are desperately lacking.

08 May 2024 10:24:34
Mo Salah was offside from a harmless pass from Becker in a game not that long ago too. becomes a bit of a red herring.

{Ed001's Note - yes but they don't get highlighted by the media as the agenda against him has given up.}

08 May 2024 12:52:11
Mo silences his critics on the pitch - simple as that.

07 May 2024 18:14:25
Accidentally pressed send -
Following on from my previous Nunez, Ali and VVD stats:
LFC have played 56 games so far this year, and kept clean sheets in 15 of those games. That's 41 games and counting where our defence has been found wanting. Clean sheet percentage of around 25%. Meanwhile top of the league Arsenal's David Raya has 15 clean sheets in the premier League alone.
Gerrard and Torres did not win the league. Owen, Fowler and Heskey did not win the league, Suarez, Sturbridge and Sterling did not win the league. Time and time again we see that titles are decided more often by the best defence rather than the best attack, so blaming Nunez for us not winning the league when the stats show he is doing an extremely solid job as our number 9 is nothing short of hot nonsense.

Come at me lol. Actually don't. It doesn't matter. There is nothing anyone on here can say that's going to make me not support a player in a red shirt when they are performing well.

08 May 2024 01:43:36
A fantastic post mate, well said.

08 May 2024 07:56:16
You can’t blame one player for not winning the league.

Attack as a team, defend as a team.

There are focal points at both ends of the pitch.
Liverpool are great at attacking, we probably create more chances than any other team. But you can be great at attacking and poor at scoring goals. Chances don’t win matches, goals do. If you can’t put the ball in the net, you won’t win any games or any tournaments.

On the flip side, if you’re great at scoring - Suarez, Torres, Fowler, but you have a keeper who can’t catch (Karius, Mignolet) then you’re not going to win anything either.

So you need those focal points to be efficient against the best teams.

08 May 2024 10:25:53
I think Mo's goals disproves the theory that we need 'x' amount of goals to win titles.

08 May 2024 12:56:26
Goals win games. You can’t win any games without them.

Just being obtuse to argue otherwise.

Winning 10-0 or 5-0 against weak opponents is largely irrelevant except for goal difference.

Wining 1-0 or drawing 0-0 against a rival is hugely impactful on your chances of winning anything.

That’s where clinical finishers make a difference.

07 May 2024 18:07:38
Just seen some stuff about it being Nunez's fault that we didn't win the league this year, so just wanted to put something out there, I'm not criticizing or admiring or anything, just saying it as it is.
Ok - So let's look at the narrative - Nunez is rubbish with his 31 goal involvements this year (only 1 behind Salah if you disregard penalties by the way. ) and his misses have cost us the title.
Meanwhile Alisson is the best goalkeeper in the world right? And VVD is back on form right?

08 May 2024 07:58:31
If you’re keen on stats, check out attempts on goal.

You’ll see Liverpool usually has many more than their opponents but don’t score the same proportion of them.

That tells its own story.

{Ed001's Note - yes, but you are applying no context and so those stats are meaningless bollox, like xG. Having lots of shots, but from where? Where are the opposition players when they are taken? Are they all back in front of the shot or have they been dragged out of the way? And so many other factors that make a difference. We have spent most of the season with no width, so every defence we face is packed in the centre and had no need to move out of position, meaning they can block most shots. Or they can force a player to snatch at them, as they do not have time to do anything else due to the bodies in the box.

Then go back and look at how we used to play, with so much width and movement dragging opponents around. That gave the likes of Mane and Salah so much time to pick a shot, rather than just hitting it.}

07 May 2024 16:17:20
Nunez is a good player with potential to be very good. He polarises opinion but I think if you analyse him rationally he's not the disaster he's made out ot be in the media or the next Suarez/ Torres we hoped he's become. You do have to question his mentality because he seems to blow incredibly hot and cold for someone of his age which points towards a fragile confidence. Then there is also the issue that he's still not learned to speak English, which in itself is not a good look.

Nunez's career so far looks like he might follow a similar pattern to Drogba. Different players in their approach but both architects of chaos who didn't always get the goal return their overall play deserves. Like Drogba I can see Nunez having years where it'll just click and he'll score 20-30. I can also see him having other years where he might only score 5-10. Drogba eventually peaked in his late 20's and only really had 2 prolific seasons in his Chelsea career, but he is still a legend there because his work rate and physicality allowed others like Lampard, Malouda, Anelka, Robben and Cole to shine.

It's comes down to whether Slot wants more technically in the build up and in front of goal from his centre forward. Chelsea during Drogba's time had goals spread across midfield and attack so they didn't suffer when he had a year with a poor return. If we want to build our system around the majority of the chances falling to 2 or 3 players in the forward line (like we did with Mane, Bobby and Salah) Nunez is not the guy in my opinion because you can't bank on him for consistency. If we're happy to build a system where the goals are spread around the attack and the midfield, then I think Nunez is worth persevering with because he can be a good focal point who will also get assists even when the goals aren't flowing.

There is also the Salah situation to consider though. He is getting too old to work up and down the flank beating full backs for pace, but he's still a very technically gifted footballer with a knack for putting the ball in the net. So it wouldn't shock me to see him playing as the centre forward next season if he does decide to stay. Although the reports he'll stay might just be a way of getting more money from Saudi to be fair. It's going to be interesting to see who Slot takes a liking to and who he leaves behind. I do think certain players might do better than others in his tactically and technically demanding style of play. Gakpo, Elliott, Trent, Macca and Virgil might shine. Meanwhile Nunez, Jota, Endo, Robbo and Konate might struggle. Players in between like Szoboszlai and Diaz who have a bit of heavy metal and technical guile about them might go either way.

Only time will tell but I know Nunez will go on to score a lot more goals in his career whether that is here or somewhere else, because his pace and movement is just too impressive for him to not score goals. I'd keep him myself because I think if nothing else he can be a game changer off the bench but if his Instagram activity is a message to the club that he wants to go, I'm also not going to lose much sleep over it.

07 May 2024 23:05:32
He’s more of a Cisse than a Drogba.

Physical attributes, quick, tries hard.
Lacks composure and that’s what differentiates good players (Nunez) from great players (Torres) .
You can’t teach composure, it’s innate.

07 May 2024 14:17:14
I'm not sure with Nunez, stay or go I'm on the fence. I do think with strikers who's finishing and touch are rushed and off, it should be able to be sorted with coaching, his in the right place to get the chances and is a nightmare to play against that's hard to coach. I am also conscious that Mo Salah joined us age 25.nunez is 24.Mo Salah was dubious when we signed him at 25, at 24 we would of been underwhelmed at the least had we signed him. I think it will depend on slot, I think out of possession slot is like klopp, in possession more Pep so possibly fine tune that finishing and there's a player there.

06 May 2024 19:33:46
Nunez gets paid by the club a wage that was negotiated by his agent and the club were obviously happy to pay that. When you pull on the shirt most fans just want that player to give everything he can for the club. Nunez does that, where as Suaraz a great player loved by the fans embarrassed the club a number of times and just used Liverpool to get to Spain. I honestly believe Slot will improve Nunez and all this negativity will disapear.

07 May 2024 09:10:56
Difference is suarez was our only top class player, we all hoped he stayed because of good he was, we all wanted him to stay regardless of his antics, but we are in a better position nowadays . Nunez has got great strings to his bow but his finishing is bad, been here 2 years with the most offensive manager he'll ever have . I hope he can turn it round but I can't see it myself.

08 May 2024 01:56:54
We all didn't want him to stay. I didn't want him to stay because he was a fool and dragged the club and the king through dirt. Great player but an absolute piece of sh*t who should've been sold way before we got rid.

I'm one of them, I don't care how good a player is, they are never above the club and when they start acting like they are - Goodbye!

{Ed001's Note - I certainly never wanted him to stay. I am embarrassed that he is still associated with the club.}

08 May 2024 09:14:27
Absolutely right Ed1 mate, a shame but it's true. Up there with Barton for me, can't stand either of them. Toxic.

08 May 2024 09:36:37
He was a absolute beast of a player . yeah he was wrong on a lot of things he did . but fact was we were a poor team n his football made us a decent team, we had no chance of making a title challenge then. but he made it happen . pure football genius with the make up of a mad man. everyone I knew was gutted when he left .

09 May 2024 02:39:48
Jesus, the thought comes to mind 'there's always one'. Can't argue with people like you mate but all I will say is if you and your mates were gutted when he left then you clearly don't value the club or respect it like it should be respected. Kind of like Suarez, remember how he didn't give a damn about our club? you appear to be in the same mindframe as he was.

One thing for certain is mate, we're not going to debate his ability, we all know he was an excellent player but that doesn't give him the right to drag the club and an absolute legend through dirt. I don't care what he brought to the club, I wish to Christ we'd never of signed him. He might've helped us on a title challenge but did we win it? no, it's irrelevant.

06 May 2024 12:49:01
Sorry but fans are entitled to their opinions on players. At the end of the day, they pay good money to see them perform so when a player who cost £85million has shown no improvement in the 2 seasons he’s been here, some fans are going to get vexed. I mean how many clear cut chances has he missed? How many times has he hit the woodwork? How many times has he been caught offside? Yes he puts a shift in, yes he is passionate but we bought him to score goals, not miss them. If he has scored even half the chances that have been created for him, we’d probably have won the league this season! I don’t with abusing a player and making it personal but I can understand why some fans are peed off with him. I actually think we should sell him this summer as I just think he isn’t good enough and can’t see him improving enough to be a goalscorer like Torres or Suarez.

06 May 2024 13:44:44
Whatever his shortcomings have been, it does not warrant the abuse. Having watched useless tossers like Balotelli and Diouf coast through games and do nothing, at least Nunez is man enough to put a shift in and try. His confidence is probably at rock bottom at the moment and confidence is a huge thing for strikers. He’s (and all of our forwards) also not helped by our porous defending and inability to keep a clean sheet, that puts immense pressure on our attackers to either get us back into games or knowing we can’t effectively provide a solid basis to attack from.

06 May 2024 14:29:43
"I don’t agree with abusing a player"

Great. Having an opinion on a player is not the same as abusing one. So that begs the question as to why are you making this defence of fans' rights to express their precious opinions immediately after Nunez deletes a load of social media content over abuse he got?

06 May 2024 14:57:16
Well Hitler had an opinion too. . .
Darwin has literally improved this season
So those fans saying that whilst also abusing himare dumb
Just my opinion.

06 May 2024 17:12:17
Criticise his ability - fair enough, but be proportionate.

Don’t criticise his hair, his family, his intelligence.

07 May 2024 07:00:45
Big Popper - and yet we won nothing with Torres and Suarez. Nunez has also scored more goals than Suarez did in his first two calender years at the club.
In terms of club success, Bobby is our best number striker in recent years, yet again Nunez is outperforming him in terms of both goals and assists.
It's easy to focus on the offsides and chances missed, but that shouldn't over shadow what Nunez brings to the team, which is a lot and there's no reason he cannot get better. Seeing as we are comparing people used to say Suarez couldn't finish either, then he exploded. I back Nunez to do the same.

07 May 2024 21:13:25
More goals than Holland, outscored everyone at Arsenal too he’ll do for me.