30 Jan 2023 20:25:49
Genuinely, have no idea what we are going to do.

We are backlogged with over the hill, regressing players that would not improve any other competitor, and those competitors are seeing that this season. Who would want any of our players, which player would fund our transfer activity next season.

Salah? Potentially, but I can't see anyone bidding a considerable amount for a guy that would be 31 by the start of next season. A player on big wages, family appear comfortable in the Liverpool area.

Kelleher? He is the one of the rumoured players to be sold to 'increase funds to finance the move for Bellingham. ' He is one of the few players whose value will not be affected by this season because he is untainted. But, what would we get? £15 million, around that mark maybe.

We have so much deadwood that needs to be sold in order to bring in funds, but doubt many would look at them. Also, would these players even want to leave, while on high wages.

In my opinion, we need to move: Adrian (Free), Kelleher (For his own development and in order to receive consistent game time), Phillips, Rhys Williams, Matip, Fabinho, Milner (free), Keita (free), Ox (Free), Curtis Jones, Firmino (free), Salah (In order to receive a transfer fee before his value depreciates even further) .

That's a lot of players to move on, and I haven't mentioned some that I personally believe need replacing (I. e. Van Dijk) because I know most would wish to keep them.

Many of these players should have been moved on a year or two before. Personally believe we should forgo Bellingham and instead use that money to strengthen various positions rather than one in central midfield.

For me, Trent needs to leave right back and a more balanced right back come in. Free Trent to play central midfield, give him a full pre-season to learn the position and use his crossing ability to target Nunez, Gakpo in the box. The man has one assist this season and the reason is simple, he is being told not to push forward anymore. Which means you are robbing him of his greatest strength while, at the same time, isolating him and forcing him to face his greatest weakness. No idea what Klopp or Ljinders were thinking with this change, incompetent to say the least.

As for the players to bring in, no idea because I have no idea what budget we will receive with no Champions League, our player valuations not being met, etc. I have no idea what we are targeting, outside of a central midfielder or two. No idea the level of player we could attract. No idea if we will have new ownership so as to reinforce and strengthen our spending. No idea who is even going to be our head of recruitment, is it Klopp? Ward? Ljinders?

The whole thing is a mess. I have no idea how we will overcome this, no idea if the players are even listening to Klopp and, more concerning, no idea where we will finish in the table this season. I know people think the bottom half is beneath Liverpool, but on current form can you really say it is not a possibility.

Honestly, want this season to end, pre-season to begin, so that we can put a line over this entire mess. A new start, a new rebuilding process, a new beginning with Klopp at the helm and new owners looking to make an immediate statement and impact. Will happen, no idea.

I suppose that would be the title of this entire thing. No idea.

{Ed025's Note - what i take out that very well written post mango...is that you have no idea mate..

1.) 30 Jan 2023
30 Jan 2023 20:52:35
So you off load half the team in one go! Yeah that would be a great idea.

2.) 30 Jan 2023
30 Jan 2023 20:52:49
Only bit I disagree with is Salah, he's actually still got good numbers for goals and assists compared to the rest of Europe although obviously below his best.

But the midfield behind him has been horrendous and the two other up top with him have so often been new, rotated, or average.

Salah will stay and continue to be good, we just need the quality around him. Even the best players can't do it in there own.

On Trent, I've always believed he's best at RB but we no longer play the system to use him so I think now is a better time than ever, as we transition to a new style, to have him play either CM or DM - I think he could play box to box or a deep quarterback role pretty well.

Time to finally say goodbye to the loyal servants though who aren't title challenging quality - Jones, Milner, Matip, Fab etc. it's a bit of a shame but you're right that it's time.

3.) 30 Jan 2023
30 Jan 2023 20:55:20
To summarize for those less into reading long posts

EVERYBODY PANIC!

{Ed025's Note - calm down corporal jones.. :)

4.) 30 Jan 2023
30 Jan 2023 21:00:07
Mango. I’m only responding to this because I’m really worried for you. Do you need someone to talk to?
Honestly mate it really isn’t as bad as you’re making out, we’ve had a poor season so far by our very high standards but that’s ok. It’s allowed.
You are writing us off way too soon in my opinion but even if what you say is true, the sun will still come up in the morning and the birds will still sing a tuneful tune.
The doors at Anfield will still open and we’ll all still sit on the terraces and sing our songs. The only thing is we might have to sing a bit louder because all of our players will be too old to hear us properly.
Keep the faith mate, all is not lost.

5.) 30 Jan 2023
30 Jan 2023 21:11:48
I reckon PSG would go for Salah, he would still be a big signing for them and may need a star if mbappe goes. I think paris has a big Muslim community (not that religion comes into a clubs decision but it may appeal for salah) . And trying to be the man to get them that CL, may be a new challenge he needs.

As for a re-build that started last year with Manes departure. Nunez Diaz and gakpo are all the future of our front line. Add to that Bobby (who I think will stay) and jota and Elliott. And I'm not overly concerned about the frontline.

We all know midfield needs some new faces, Bellingham would be nice but no idea on other names. I haven't watched a lot of football this year, but I wouldn't sell fab and I can't believe I am going to say this, I would be tempted to keep Keita for a year (2 year contract) and try get a fee next year.

My reasoning is we need a lot of work to make the midfield changes and in one summer, without a lot of money, may be difficult. Keep him a year as cover, his body can't be much more and then see of there is interest next. Gives us midfield options of, Bellingham (if it happens) +1, bajectic, thiago, fab, hendo, keita and some youth.

I'd sell kelleher for funds and for his career and philipps like wise, I'd let milly and ox go too. I'd let Williams decide if he's OK with limited game time, if not let him go.

Curtis Jones we all need to get together and call him the second coming. If Gordon is going for 40m we can surely get at least 20m for the lad. I just don't think he will ever get the games to develop so needs to move for his career in my opinion.

I get all the frustration of this season, its been dire, but I do believe we will come back stronger. It might be blind faith, but that's the joy of football no?

6.) 30 Jan 2023
30 Jan 2023 21:40:20
Everyone needs to calm down, the sky is not falling. It's been a rough season but for all this talk of us not making top four, and Klopp should blow up the team or leave, and FSG out, blah blah blah, take a good hard look at the teams above us (setting aside Arsenal and Man City) . Newcastle - drawing as many as they win (do you think they will maintain? ), Man U - 5 losses, Tottenham - 7 losses, Brighton - 6 losses, Fulham - 8 losses, Brentford - 4 losses. We've lost 6. Point is, the teams ahead of us aren't exactly lighting it up, they're all having a bit of an up and down season, just like we are. So. take a deep breath and try supporting the team for a change, regardless of the result. And who knows, maybe they will surprise you in the end.

7.) 30 Jan 2023
30 Jan 2023 21:44:47
I'll resist the temptation to compare your desire to have a new beginning with Klopp at the helm vs. what you said about him yesterday.

I think we should look to target 2 or 3 first team midfielders and a first team center half, maybe two, in the summer. I'm not going to name names, because I just don't watch enough footie outside of Liverpool matches to be able to make good suggestions. You can make absolutely valid arguments for more signings than that, but I'm trying to be realistic and conservative in my expectations.

We've needed new blood in midfield for a while, the extent to which we used Keita last season was proof enough of that. He's gone in the summer, so is Ox, Milner should be as well. Unless he's brought into the first choice picture and gets a run between now and the end of the season, I'd loan out Jones to a bottom half PL club next year so he can play every week (assuming he doesn't get crocked) to establish how good a player he is or isn't. Morton can come back and take his place in the squad.

I'd sell Fabinho if he doesn't turn it around big time in the next few months. What would we have valued him at last summer? £60m? So even if his 'performances' this year have wiped 2/ 3rds of his value away, we'd still get £20m for him. He'd probably do just fine in Spain or Italy, and we'd have a few quid to get a replacement squad level player for him, so Bajcetic wouldn't have to do a whole season at DM at just 19.

That'd give us a midfield of: New Bloke, New Bloke, Henderson, Thiago, Rehabbed Fabinho or a Replacement, Bajcetic, Morton. A lot will depend on the quality of the new signings, but if we get good, dependable lads in, that'll be plenty.

At center back, van Dijk is on the wane. I don't think he's necessarily finished yet, but we do need to plan for him to be phased out in the next 2 years and not be caught like we have been before. When he's done, his replacement needs to have been at the club for 12 months already. Which means we sign him this summer. Konate's a little raw but is about good enough atm and should get better. I don't think Matip and Gomez are reliable. Largely they do the same thing - which is be ok for 85 minutes of a game but in the remaining 5 do something stupid that costs us a goal, or at least presents the oppo with a clear cut chance. It's frustrating as hell to watch. Gomez was having a good game on Sunday, but now all everyone remembers is him being slow to get out to Mitoma and then turning away and flopping on his arse. And it's hard to argue with that when it cost us the game. (Although there's blame to go around on that goal, but let's not go too deep for the purposes of this convo) I'd sell Matip, along with Phillips and Williams, and put it towards a better player. Gomez I'd do the same if we can afford to get two new CBs, but if we can't he'd be the one I keep for a season and then sell and replace him the following summer. Unless he suddenly morphs into Sami Hyypia.

In terms of other sales, I think Jota will go and we could get away without a replacement for a season if we can reach a deal to keep Bobby for another year (he might want 3 years. Wouldn't give him that) . It's not that Jota's a bad player, I just don't think the role he was bought for - bigger goal threat through the middle than Bobby and cover for Mane on the left - exists anymore following the signings of Gakpo, Nunez and Diaz in the space of 12 months. Diaz and Nunez are both better than him, and he's carrying to much value, imo, to be worth retaining as squad cover or as contingency in case Gakpo flops. Attack is probably the area where we have the best squad depth atm, and I'd like to think we'd get the £40m back. He's scored at a better rate for us than he did at Wolves, although a couple of bad injuries and large wages might put people off. But even if we didn't get £40m, we should get close enough to it. That's money I'd rather spend on the midfield or defence than retain Jota.

I think Kelleher could look for a transfer or at least a loan. Ideally I'd like to loan him out for a couple of years, so we have the option of bringing him back in case Alisson looks for out, but if it's an area where we can make money by selling him, we should consider it.

Salah. He's on £350k a week with a long contract. Forget it. He's not going to go anywhere, and despite his poor form of late, he's still on 17 goals this season in all competitions, I think. Not exactly awful is it? Get the team functioning around him, so opposition sides have to pay attention to players who aren't him, and he will score goals again.

Trent. I think if we bring the team back to what it was a couple of years ago, then Trent's defensive frailties suddenly cease to be an issue. People talk about him like he's Abel Xavier grade rubbish or something, but he's won everything in this country. So he can't be entirely terrible. I don't think moving him to midfield is the answer, he's not quick enough to be a winger for us and he has one senior game in midfield afaik. I think with the extra pressure on him and less time to make his mind up and pick passes, he'd struggle. And a full pre-season at it isn't necessarily going to make up for that. If it did, players would cease developing once they hit 21 and had a full season of first team footie at a high level on their belts. I think part of Fabs' problem is that he spent a lot of his career as a right back and he hadn't got the store of midfield experience to adapt the the tactical adjustments Klopp tried to make this season. Trent I think could struggle the same way. You say we should try and get his crossing ability into the game again and I agree 100%. Surely the best place to do that is from attacking right back though? If he was playing midfield, he'd end up drifting to the right flank to get crosses in. Midfielders drifting out wide and leaving massive gaps has been a recurring problem with us this season. So why not put him back where he was at his best, and set the team up to suit that like we did before?

Really that's what we need to do - Go back to what worked for us when we won everything. Pacey defenders that can play out from the back. Attacking full backs who can deliver good quality balls into the box - we have 2 at the club, arguably 3 depending on how you rate Tsimikas. Use them.
A solid no. 6 with midfielders that are fit, aggressive and tactically aware enough to press effectively and cover spaces left by the fullbacks. Forwards who can take on a man and threaten in behind - Nunez is one. I think Salah could still do that (albeit not quite as well as a few years ago) in the right team. Doak could potentially be one.

I guess it becomes a matter of investment and identifying the right players then. I'm not in a position to really make educated comments about those.

8.) 30 Jan 2023
30 Jan 2023 21:53:27
Jaysus that was long. Sorry lads.

9.) 30 Jan 2023
30 Jan 2023 23:01:31
@OP, what was the point of your post after the first sentence, mate?

To be fair, you are not alone and most of us (with me being right there with you) have no idea.

Fortunately, that’s what the club and the board and the managers and the back room staff are there for.

I think this season is an aberration with lots and lots of things going wrong. We aren’t going to win anything and we probably won’t qualify for the CL. Like the old saying goes, when you are in a hole, put the spade down. That’s not me giving up, by the way, it’s just a recognition that the club needs to ease off on 5he self I, posed pressure and to collectively say “Eff it, let’s forget about results and find a system that works for us” and see where we go from there and look at who we need to replace, if we want the chosen system to be improved and who we might need to bring in / what we need to do in order to achieve our goals in the next two or three seasons.

Of course the club will know some of the stuff we need to do (anybody think we need a RB, CB and 3 new Mids? ) and all things being equal after the window closes the situation will not have changed but I’m sure if the club ‘doze off’ someone (perhaps even one or two on this board) will remind them whenever we don’t win (or perhaps even if we do) .

10.) 31 Jan 2023
30 Jan 2023 23:40:47
A bit defeatist don’t you think WDW? Not like you mate. A fee on the bounce and you will feel different. Nunez will start at the weekend and then some players will be back.

11.) 31 Jan 2023
31 Jan 2023 05:53:22
@Mark, I just think the ship has sailed for this season. I’d be delighted if we started playing football and won a few games on the bounce but I’m also happy if we can work through some of the problems and get ourselves back on track for next season. No being defeatist, just being a bit of a realist I think.