28 Aug 2023 19:11:03
Now the dust has settled a bit for me although very soft Virj should have been sent off yesterday in my opinion, I know the rule and I know he takes the ball but he comes through the man to take it and given the pass that was played and the line it was running on Isak would have had an opportunity on goal whether it was a true goal scoring opportunity or not we will never know because he was fouled during the development of the play.

Carraghers assessment of Virjs poor handling of the situation from a defensive perspective was correct but I do still think he should have gone it was my feeling at the time and still is now. The more worrying thing for me was his behaviour afterwards, I know the standard of reffing is somewhat absurd at the moment and yesterday's debacle would have wound anybody up but his aggressive demeanour, foul language and refusal to get off the pitch is going to bite us in the arse more than anything I feel. Not how a captain should be acting in my opinion, determined willing to fight for any cause etc but as the leader you need to keep your decorum about you.

Something needs to be done about the standard of refereeing in this country and how the governing body rules this beautiful game but so do a lot of things in this world.

1.) 28 Aug 2023
28 Aug 2023 19:55:13
I would have given a yellow but it was a stupid lazy challenge and he was last man so can see why it was given as a red. Should have just done the basics and followed his man.

2.) 28 Aug 2023
28 Aug 2023 20:36:12
The problem with refereeing is that they are a professional body beyond reproach. You can’t criticise them or hold them to account, we are no closer to having live in game commentary either. They need to be 100 % transparent and accountable, only then will they improve. You only need to look at Mike Deans comments to know how bad and deeply rooted the problem is.

3.) 28 Aug 2023
28 Aug 2023 21:24:04
VVD was a red if it was the other way round we would all say red. My biggest concern with VVD was before then when he chose not to make a challenger on Almirón when he broke down there right and the VVD of old would have gone over and just taken the ball off him but he just did nothing just remained of last season.

4.) 28 Aug 2023
28 Aug 2023 21:48:34
Definitely not a red based on this year's guidance unless you say he made no attempt to play the ball. Maybe you can debate if contacting the player first means it wasn't an attempt to play the ball, but I'd argue against that and also argue that goes against the spirit of the guidance given to clarify this situation. It's still just poor reffing for me.

5.) 28 Aug 2023
28 Aug 2023 22:45:14
I don’t think it’s a red. I’m dubious whether it’s even a foul.

We’ve all heard the refs talk about initiating contact and for me Isak steps across the line that Virgil is taking, takes contact and goes down. Virgil clearly gets the ball. It’s not from behind it’s from the side. Yes he gets the player too but it’s a contact sport. Did he go for the ball? Yes. Did he get the ball? Yes.

How many times do we see Salah get the ball and a defender clatter through him from behind and get the ball? Hardly ever given as a free kick.

Utd’s keeper can even clatter players without getting anywhere near the ball!

It’s the inconsistency that winds me up. You will see loads of challenges like that throughout a season and I will bet there won’t be another red card shown.

If you know the game then you instinctively know when it’s a red card situation. With both Macca and Virgil’s challenges I was completely caught by surprise when the red came out. Neither looked anything like a red for me.

6.) 28 Aug 2023
28 Aug 2023 22:58:37
Good post that beckers.

7.) 29 Aug 2023
28 Aug 2023 23:38:38
good point Beckers. I think that is why the Virgil one feels even less of a red cos you expect a red card to be for really bad challenges.

8.) 29 Aug 2023
28 Aug 2023 23:44:40
I think if you remember back to the Men’s World Cup last year, refereeing and VAR was rarely an issue and complemented. Proving VAR can be unobtrusive if used competently. Meanwhile only three weeks into the season multiple controversial calls, no consistency and games results hence competition integrity at risk. It’s just a case of competency. We should examine bringing in foreign refs and explayers to help VAR refs.

9.) 29 Aug 2023
29 Aug 2023 01:11:24
Beckers pretty much summed it up. It's going to be a long season the more these decisions happen.

10.) 29 Aug 2023
29 Aug 2023 02:13:14
The guidelines haven’t changed. The triple punishment is only applicable inside the box because the foul results in a free shot (penalty) and not a more difficult fk.
Whether one thinks it’s from behind our side the tackle comes from behind Isak. VVD’s positioning was terrible he allows him to roll him, kicks through the attacker to get the ball.
Before the replies begin ask yourself if it was the other way around would you want the defender sent off.

11.) 29 Aug 2023
29 Aug 2023 05:48:03
Beckers I tend to agree with you most of the time mate, but there’s a difference between initiating contact (which I read as trying to create a collision yourself) and protecting the ball, which Isak is entitled to do. VVD clearly takes the player before the ball down his having to tackle from the wrong side, which is a free kick offense. Given Isak would otherwise be through in a 1-1 with the keeper, it’s a red IMO even if perhaps a slightly harsh outcome.

I do still fully agree with your inconsistency question though. Gordon’s push on Trent is a good example of an obvious piece of foul play ignored, and I believe may have figured in Trent and VVDs sense of injustice and their subsequent reactions when decisions went against them (even if they were still wrong to respond) .

12.) 29 Aug 2023
29 Aug 2023 09:48:46
SGRed, I agree. The initial problem is not whether it is a red cos the challenge was bad. It is deemed a red cos it was the denial of a clear goalscoring opportunity. Now we can debate whether it was a clear opportunity but that is up to the interpretation of the ref. He took the player before the ball and that is a foul and the ref deemed it a clear goalscoring opportunity hence, red card, IMO.

As for consistency, we all await that with baited breathe cos even in that game, our players like Trent were getting done for the exact same things Newcastle players were doing and nothing was done by a ref who is clearly not up to the job.

Now IMO, the real prob here is that VVD did not play this right, IMO. He could have just engaged with Isak when he receives the ball and occupy him. If he scores from that tight angle then, great play. As the captain, he has to recognise the situation and know he can't be rash nor use his head cos he could get done by a ref who was clearly out of his depth. He needs to do better and not hurt his team by being rash. Good thing is the staff and the players played a blinder and rescued the 3 points. Just my take.

13.) 29 Aug 2023
29 Aug 2023 09:59:54
It was a clear foul. Van Dijk went through him to get the ball. Van Dijk was the wrong side of Isak and panicked.

14.) 29 Aug 2023
29 Aug 2023 10:09:38
All this talk of him being 1 on 1 with the keeper is driving me crazy. If vvd did make the challenge he's still in position to defend and it'd be 1 on 2. For me that's why it's not a red; vvd was defending and got the player while making the challenge. Fine, but by both this year's guidance and common sense, as long as it's not excessive, it should be a yellow. Especially because if he doesn't make the challenge he's still there to defend and force him out wide.

Also totally agree with Becker: the inconsistency is the problem. We've seen defenders take out salah, Diaz, etc by going through the player, no foul is even given, and it's justified because the defender "got the ball". Its the double standard that people (and I) are upset about.