Everton v Liverpool - A Quick Liverpool Perspective

27 Apr 2024 07:39:02
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Everton v Liverpool - A Quick Liverpool Perspective

1.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 08:06:49
This post perfectly echoes my feelings.

I think as a fan base and club we hang onto things for too long because we're sentimental

Houllier stayed a season longer than he should. So did Rafa. Torres and Gerrard both stayed about 6 months too long and now klopp. The one time the club were decisive was in sacking Brendan, we need to stop letting sunk cost determine our actions.

Had klopp gone two years ago he'd have gone out a hero and with everyone missing him. With time we still will but thanks to two years of awful football and little to no success everyone's feelings will be more of relief than anything.

I am not expecting the football to be anymore exciting under slot but we will probably win more. He has the same death by a thousand passes approach as guardiola which for me is very boring. If you watched city beat Brighton you'll know what I mean, never has 4-0 been so dull.

{Ed001's Note - I am with you on that, I find Guardiola's teams dull to watch.}

2.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 08:21:35
Completely agree,

It feels sad and wrong to be questioning Klopp after the man brought the club out of the doldrums, but it is clear that he's lost his mojo.

One of the more frustrating things, is it is so obvious the tactics don't suit, and earlier we'd go back to the thing that worked, but now we just seem to plod on regardless.

you would hope that now the new man is more or less confirmed, the players sit up and put in the effort and play to impress, but we also need the tactics to suit them.

The way it is going at the moment I'm worried for losses at West Ham and Villa, a draw against spurs, and a cagey win over Wolves.

3.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 08:25:21
Good read Ed1.

I can’t help but think a huge part of Klopp feeling exhausted is that if not for city (cheating or not? ) he would have won another 2 titles most likely.

It must be exasperating to get 94 and 97 points in two seasons only to lose the title in the last day by a point.

It’s true that watching Liverpool for the last couple of years has been a lot less enjoyable since we switched tactics. Even wining games, it’s rarely a truly enjoyable experience to watch (does that sound spoilt? ), hopefully you get what I mean.

I was devastated when Klopp announced his departure and have ended up looking forward to it as it’s so clearly time for a change (which funnily enough is also a bit devastating weirdly)

{Ed001's Note - thanks Shaq. I am looking forward to the future now, but I will miss Klopp.}

4.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 08:46:40
Are people still talking about heavy metal football? Klopp used the term over ten years ago when he was Dortmund boss. I think it was a flippant remark comparing his style to Wenger's orchestra style.
What does the term actually mean? Has Klopp explained what he meant?
If I remember when we started to play a more "controlled" game- the word used by his assistant at the time- we won the League, CL, FA Cup and League Cup.
Too much is being made of a jokey throwaway comment made by Klopp when he was manager of another club, in another league over ten years ago.

{Ed001's Note - are you for real? Or just being deliberately obtuse? His assistant, I guess you are referring to motormouth Lijnders, was talking nonsense. We won the league etc by playing high intensity football, which is why his own book was entitled Intensity. It is the last couple of years that we have been more controlled and won f all.}

5.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 08:49:40
Just reading the first couple of paragraphs is exactly how I feel as well Ed’s. We all adore Klopp and to say that am looking forward to a new manager feels like am betraying him but your right he should have gone when he felt the time was right and not get talked into it by the fans/ team or his wife. They say that you never stop learning and am sure Klopp has learnt from this experience. I still love the bloke am wish him all the very best in the future what ever that mite be. My only hope now is that we definitely finish in a champions league place. YNWA Klopp!

6.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 09:38:40
Ed01, that was not a match review, mate. That was a full-blown autopsy of our season (if not a proper therapy session) and frankly if we are being honest, we knew this the whole time but as fans are allowed to be, we were in a great position so well, we just ran with it and who could blame us?

"He has brought so much joy that it is not that I begrudge him the money or wanting a break, I am annoyed that he stayed too long. Instead of dreading him going, I am now actually just looking forward to it all being over. It is a shame because it should not be that way after all he has achieved. It should be like when he left Dortmund and the BVB fans were just broken-hearted. Instead it is almost going to be a relief. "

Mate, that hurt. It hurt really bad to read that, man. Klopp's blindspots and loyalty to Lijnders has done us in for the second season running. I knew we were not a great team, for sure but I thought our mentality and desire to prove the doubters wrong was fueling us to the top and with players coming back, we would improve. As you said, we were top in spite of the tactics rather than because of them and many of us said that this inverted rubbish was a huge problem for starters.

Now, the bubble has burst and this has been coming. Scapegoating players is futile based on the current facts laid out at this point cos I ain't got the stomach for it. For now, the season is over for me so I look forward to the players finishing the season strong and giving Klopp the farewell and parade (if possible) he deserves cos in spite of all of his mistakes, he kept ALL his promises, even those I never heard him make. Klopp leaves us in a good position and the club in a much better place than he found it. That and MANY other things, will always be to his credit, IMO.

{Ed001's Note - that is a good point, he has left us in a much better place.}

7.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 09:39:21
Can’t believe all this negativity being given out to klopp. Yes the style of play has changed but it is still a style of play that has had us creating enough chances to win games at a canter. Its hardly klopps fault that our forwards have been missing chance after chance the last two months, these are the same players who up until then had been putting the chances away. If we had scored some of the dozens of chances we create in games then we would not be having this conversation, we would be several points clear and giving klopp the farewell he deserves instead of this undeserved critism which is frankly a disgrace!

8.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 09:48:52
Ed001, no, I'm talking about Peter Krawietz and the words he used after we won the League.
If you're talking about high intensity, that's another thing and Klopp himself has said himself that the "heavy metal" thing was a "joke". He also admitted to talking a lot "sh*t" when he was younger.
It may seem pedantic to bring it up but we have won something in the last couple of years.

{Ed001's Note - yes, we won something this season. I was being as obtuse as you. It is irrelevant what Klopp said, it has become the label applied to refer to the high-intensity football he brought with him.}

9.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 10:09:04
Nice review ed, not harsh enough in my opinion.

I read something that terrified me yesterday. Apparently slot is closed friends and although he prefers a high line pressing approach similar to Ange, apparently more pressing than klopp.

The scary thing was he prefers a sideways possession game and dominating possession. Linders ball?

10.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 10:12:35
Ed001, I suppose it is a weak label based on what Klopp has since said was a joke.
He did bring a high intensity brand of football with him but it evolved to a more controlled brand with more selective spells of high intensity and we won the CL and PL.
The season we won the League we had the best defensive record.

{Ed001's Note - I don't see the relevance in anything you are saying. You seem to be completely missing the point in your efforts to prove you are a superfan. The last two seasons have been dog muck and the intensity has vanished along with switching over to a tedious, turgid, controlled style of football. The only thing we have won, and that was a close run thing against an abysmal Chelsea side managed by a serial loser, was the League Cup. Not exactly a great return when you consider the way we flunked out of the FA Cup against an even worse Man Utd side.}

11.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 10:16:08
This is what Peter Krawietz said, after we won the League, about us moving away from the so called heavy metal football, if anyone is interested:

Dominance and control, that’s what it’s about. It has always been in our approach to control football games in a dominant manner. That possibly distinguishes us from other teams. We try to dominate, even when we’re not in possession. Gegenpressing is not some wild chase after the ball, it’s predicated on a trigger, designed to minimise the opponent’s time on the ball. But the high individual quality of our players also allows us to control games in possession now, and to take up positions close to the ball, to be able to win it back again quickly if we do lose it.

Having more of the ball shouldn’t lead to you resting on the ball but it does look more… controlled. It allows you to move the opponent around. We’re not forced to go for goal in every move, we can take a more strategic line, switching the play, preparing spaces and attacking situations in a systematic fashion. Our team have made great strides in that respect, mostly due to their individual quality.

{Ed001's Note - what has this to do with anything? Krawietz is talking about what we wanted to see, not this dire Lijnders-ball we have ended up with over the last two seasons. Clearly you are too busy reading and not actually seeing.}

12.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 10:18:14
Good read Ed1. People saying how dare fans questions Klopp. It comes more so out of frustration and sadness, not enjoyment. Well, at least it does for me. Sadness that we are seeing a legend go out in the manner that he is. Sadness that we don’t recognise who this version of him is anymore. Sadness that his mojo has completely gone. Sadness that he is making the same mistakes over and over and over again. And sadness that those fixable mistakes along with the players have cost us a number of trophies this season. Still a legend in my eyes for what he has achieved. But, he is not above the club and is not above criticism.

Like I said in a previous post. The man is human and not a machine. He told FSG in November that he was mentally exhausted. Either one of two things should have taken place at the point when he made them aware of his intentions to step down. One, he should have said he was leaving there and then. Two, FSG should have thanked him for his service and told him to leave as of immediate effect. The decision to stay on until the end of the season should never has been an option, and should have been taken out of Klopp’s hands. I maintain the stance that Both Klopp and FSG handled the situation completely wrong. An individual who is clearly mentally spent and is not fully focused has essentially been allowed to serve a 6 month notice period. And we are surprised it has seemingly filtered down to the players?

Personally it’s bittersweet for me. I will miss Klopp and will always remember the good times. He is a legend in my eyes, there are no two ways about it. I mean, the year we won the league and the 2/ 3 years before that when we ran City close, we were simply unstoppable. But we simply ain’t that team anymore and if we are having an honest conversation without emotions and sentiments, we haven’t been that team for some years now. And as the sayings go, nothing lasts forever and all good things must come to an end. Klopp’s time at Liverpool has run its course and I’m really looking forward to this summer’s squad refresh and the future under Arne Slot.

13.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 10:46:09
That was meant to say close friends with Pep linders never had my glasses on. I hope we don't have to suffer more linders ball.

14.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 11:05:56
Where is all the blame for Lijnders coming from? I'm not defending him so it's a genuine question.
I've not read his book, Intensity, and I don't know about his tactics but is he the reason we are playing slower, are more defensively fragile and can't finish?
Is there any evidence that he implemented a slower and more reckless brand of football?

15.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 11:27:45
Klopp made two huge mistakes at Liverpool, listening to Lijnders and leaving a season too early. This team is mid rebuild and with a few more right additions could be a great team.

16.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 11:38:04
What has Lijnders said to Klopp, polecat?

17.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 10:50:48
Ed001, Peter Krawietz was talking about us winning the League in 2019/ 20. He was talking about how the season went, how we played and he doesn't mention heavy metal football.
I've got to admit that I haven't read the Lijnder's book- I must have been too busy seeing not reading ?- so why was it called Intensity, if his ideas are to play in a completely different way?

{Ed001's Note - and why is what Krawietz relevant to any of this? He has never talked about at any time, why would you expect him to mention it? You are just not making any useful point. Like I said, deliberately obtuse trying to be a pedant about something that is utterly irrelevant. You are just hijacking a thread. I have wasted enough time, too much time, on you being a pain for the sake of it.

Why are you asking me? Lijnders is the man you need to ask, he wrote it. I am sure he will happily talk to you, just point a mic or camera at him and he will wax eloquent about how he is the kingpin of everything if you let him.}

18.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 12:10:30
I agree with Ed01 in his reasons as to what we could have done to potentially play better this season and last in hindsight but I can't agree Klopp should have gone 2 years ago just after nearly wining the quadruple. Maybe end of last year he should have gone but this season has been amazing up to 2-3 weeks ago with an entirely new midfield and we have still been the 2nd or 3rd best team in the land. Also 5 March 2023 Liverpool 7 - 0 Manchester Utd wouldn't have happened. No manager will do things exactly as we think. Klopp is too stubborn but he has given us great success in his era. If he'd left 2 years ago who would have come in and won more games than Klopp? I think it will be better to reflect on the success of the Klopp era at the end of next season / next couple of seasons when we see what a new manager can get out of the same players. That's not to say I disgaree with what Ed01 has posted in his review. Klopp would have played Jota and Gakpo if he could have done in the Everton game, probably Bradley as well which may have been different tactics, energy and result.

{Ed001's Note - you make some good points. The reason I always thought for keeping him is simply that there was no one out there to replace him. As we saw this time around, there is still no genuine outstanding candidate. I mean to compare to Klopp. I would gladly have Klopp stay if he was going to be back to being the Klopp that first came in.}

19.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 12:28:57
ED1 great review of the game n esp klopp. we all wanted the Klopp we know n love but he took a back seat n let others do more, when we all know their incapable of it . he let it slide but Love how the man took to the city fans etc . going to miss him but its gone stale. time for fresh ideas n hopefully players taking on board the new managers ideas.

20.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 12:32:41
Another 12 months would risk tainting his legacy more if he made the same mistakes you rightly point out ed01 which when we are winning we forgive but when we are not appear obvious to everyone outside of Klopp and his team. Hopefully the new guy takes us onwards and upwards. A good performance now at West Ham will ease some pain.

21.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 13:30:47
I wonder how much buvac leaving contributed. Buvac always struck me as a person who will disagree if he thinks you're wrong. Ljinders strikes me as the kind of person who doesn't do that so that he can gain favour.

Our style did noticeably change when buvac was swapped with ljinders in my opinion.

22.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 14:56:14
But Klopp was listening to and agreeing with Lijnders, not the other way round, apparently.
I think you're clutching at straws, Nevada.

23.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 15:08:24
@rigsby my point was has removing a dissenting voice had a negative effect?
Whether it's klopp being ljinders yes man or the other way around there is a lack of dissenting voices. Why else would keep persisting with a style of play is having negative effects?

I suppose the alternative is just that klopp and ljinders are a very limited coaching team who can't take us where we want to be.

Because you can't claim they're a great team of people that know how to solve problems when the team is playing badly and set up badly.

24.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 16:27:07
Nevada, Buvac? You mean "Pep Lijnders" in terms of shooting his mouth off after Klopp sent him packing B4 Pep Lijnders himself? Had to use a time machine to remamber that bro. Buvac is irrelevant here. Keep it moving.

25.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 18:26:35
It must be hard to select a decent assistant manager, that’s probably why managers like to keep their staff together when they leave jobs.
Klopp didn’t get a good one in Ljinders.

Also the need for change has to be appreciated at the highest level. If you keep exactly the same blueprint, you will get found out. Every system has weaknesses which can be exploited.,

I don’t think Klopp knew had to change blueprint or what to change to, so he took Ljinders advice. Turns out it was bad advice ?‍♂️.

rubbish happens.

Looking forward to Slot-ball ?.

26.) 27 Apr 2024
27 Apr 2024 20:18:45
Lol, well if we can't talk about that because it's the past and therefore irrelevant oli then so is klopps achievements, it's the past now and by your logic - irrelevant.

27.) 28 Apr 2024
28 Apr 2024 01:17:11
Ed1, that must've been quite difficult to write I'd imagine? but a very real perspective on what is happening/ has happened. Very well written mate as always and this is probably one of the first times I bloody hate to agree with you lol but everything you have said there is very true.

That loss and today's draw are so unnaceptable for a team like ours which proves your point, it's on the tactics. You've been saying it mate since the beginning of the season, I remember you saying about it and it's turned out to be true. I know in this case you'll hate to be right but it's one of them mate, it came back to bite us in the end.

Hope all is well Ed1 mate and you have a good day.

{Ed001's Note - a good day might be asking too much when I will be working on a review of the West Ham game! At least it won't be as bad as this one to write, so that is something.}

28.) 28 Apr 2024
28 Apr 2024 01:40:10
Will be interesting Ed1 because I couldn't watch the game but ah I don't even want to ramble on because I feel like a broken record at this point. Rather you than me mate writing these, good god it'd do my head in. Thank you though mate for taking time out to write them.

{Ed001's Note - you didn't really miss much to be fair. And you are very welcome, it actually does help to talk about it I think.}