02 Oct 2023 01:23:29
You watch Jones's red get rescinded as a 'good will gesture' I can really see this happening.
Someone earlier made the comment of the team walking off as a protest, magnificent idea. Following on from this, I think the time is coming where managers are going to get 2 "challenges" one in each half for any wrong doings. I would've been against this last season, however with the standard of refereeing this early in the season, I personally see this as a great way forward for any teams guilty of hideous referee's decisions.
Thoughts?

1.) 02 Oct 2023
02 Oct 2023 05:28:28
I think walking off would be a mistake. I could be wrong but I believe that is an automatic 3-0 loss to us. Playing on despite the wrong calls shows professionalism and would be more ideal.

2.) 02 Oct 2023
02 Oct 2023 06:23:15
I’m not a fan of a challenges system, it will just slow the game further and give officials something else to hide behind, “they didn’t use their challenge so the decision couldn’t be over turned”.

3.) 02 Oct 2023
02 Oct 2023 06:49:04
Walking off seems like it would create more problems to the game. The backroom staff can do this without the team demonstrating in front of the cameras and then being the face of the whiplash. Although heroic on principle, I don't think it would be professional either.

I think the best thing that's come of the circumstance is everybody knows how wrong the decision was. that's penalty enough. I wouldn't expect anything other than an apology and an 'investigation' into the circumstances.

4.) 02 Oct 2023
02 Oct 2023 07:05:44
We should go back to old days without VAR.
Have 2 or 3 challenges available each team, only captain or a manger can take it. They can contest anything from goal to corners.

It will surely only have some stopages per game.

Also the explanation or how they are doing review should be shown on big screens.

5.) 02 Oct 2023
02 Oct 2023 08:09:52
We couldn't walk off for the offside (or the two reds, really) because I bet the players didn't realise that Diaz was definitely onside. Look at Diaz's reaction.
Whatever happened to not flagging unless the linesman is certain that the player is off?

6.) 02 Oct 2023
02 Oct 2023 08:24:08
Walk off because a decision or decisions go against us? Never.
What sort of precedent would that set? VAR is hindering the game as it is without teams walking off, maybe coming back on and having games replayed possibly more than once.

We should just take it on the chin. We know that referees are influenced by players, crowds and other things but the smaller teams get it worse than we do.
It's not right but it's the way it is.

7.) 02 Oct 2023
02 Oct 2023 08:31:26
MyrtleBeachRed, I get your point overall BUT walking off the pitch is and will never be a good look despite the circumstance. By doing that, you are playing right into the hands of the "powers that be" who would just LOVE for two wrongs to make a right as a route to wash their hands off the absolute dumpster fire they now have on their hands and then, turn around and "blame the victim" like they did with the VVD/ Pickford incident.

I cannot say enuff about how proud I am of the way the team, the staff and the club have handled this whole debacle on and off the pitch. The players have my deepest admiration and respect. Klopp for all his flaws, deserves all the credit in the world. When you have rival fans (even Spurs fans) baking the club and Klopp on this, just shows that there is something bigger than tribalism among fans cos at the end of the day, we all love the game.

8.) 02 Oct 2023
02 Oct 2023 10:55:38
(eds, for some reason when i post a new post it rarely goes through or takes days to do so please could you post this as either a new post or an article if it meets the criteria. Cheers)

I have seen on various threads ideas about whether the issues this weekend were simple mistakes right through to targeted corruption. I believe it was somewhere on the broad stretch between. Either way, these weekly occurrences simply can not be allowed to keep happening.

The thing is, there are no repercussions. There is no dumpster fire. You’ve got people like Neville saying the statement from Liverpool was wrong, but that statement is just about the only thing thing I have seen that does anything other than saying, “grrr, nevermind”.

Every week on MOTD the same words get used to describe not just officiating, but VAR officiating. I am all for VAR and it could be great, but the way it is implemented is all wrong. From the wording, “clear and obvious”, which is bandied around like it makes sense in subjective decision making, to the way decisions are reviewed themselves with super slow, split second perspectives without showing any broader context, to the way we know the siege mentality means they will not readily change decisions because it undermines the quality of officiating if multiple decisions get overturned each game. The whole system sucks.

As with everything we have these days, the deference to third party organisations to oversee or run things just muddies waters and adds more layers of politics to the governance of things. The PGMOL is only going to be self serving and is not going to admit lack of desire to change fundamental systems, even if they are not fit for purpose, because that shows they don’t know what they are doing. That, for me, is where the corruption lies. The layers of covering up for each other, for no consequences for egregious title/ relegation changing errors, or the ability to change the rules to save referees. All VAR has done is make referees more visible and enable them to cover for their mates more easily.

The PGMOL should not be able to decide the rules, nor decide how the rules are implemented. Because the Premier League is the only league in England to use VAR, the Premier League should set the rules for how it is used. It needs to be implemented so that all 20 clubs are happy and so that no conflicts of interests occur with appointments of referees. If heinous errors are made, a Premier League panel is responsible for dealing with repercussions and ensuring that referees are held to suitable standards. I don’t believe it should be to chastise them at every juncture, however.

If we stop revering referees as these robots with super vision and computational abilities and taking their split second reactions as the basis for all decisions, then they will be able to relax more and be used for what their purpose is; a tool to enable the game to run smoothly. When breaks of play occur after a flash point, then conduct a review. Ask the ref to indicate that a review needs to happen, not that a decision has been made. Easy for fouls when the whistle gets blown, not so much for penalties or handballs, but if everyone knows checks are happening in the background and will be significantly reviewed in breaks of play after an indication from the ref or an interjection from VAR then the game can still flow. The point is not to stop the game for every decision, but to bring play back if necessary.

There are a whole raft of ideas for how VAR should be used, but the point is that the players and clubs are affected the most so they should be the ones who get to decide how it is implemented. I think it is fine to have the PGMOL provide a stable of officials to referee matches, but to enable them to keep covering for themselves will continue to affect “sporting integrity”, as Liverpool put it.

As for how change is made, the clubs and the fans need to take a stand - together. It is clear that one set of fans complaining i. e. the Liverpool ones in particular this week, will achieve nothing other than saying we are sore losers from all around. Next week it will be someone else though so we all need to get together and do something. Groups seem to have no issue with protests against owners etc, but a mass protest against a corrupt, self serving, organisation would prove a much more worthwhile exercise. Likewise, a single club making complaints achieves nothing and while you could understand Tottenham not joining in this week, next time it’ll be them who is affected. En masse, the clubs really do have the power to affect change. The PGMOL are not above everyone in terms of accountability, they have just somehow convinced everyone that they are unaccountable it seems. Allowing officials to simply officiate and not govern really could give them a new lease of life.

{Ed002's Note - You have posted it to the Banter page as a reply - it cannot be moved elsewhere.}

9.) 02 Oct 2023
02 Oct 2023 11:14:34
It should be mandatory that all offsides decisions are shown with lines drawn on the big screen and the tv viewers.
All contentious and borderline decisions should be verbally announced once they have been made.
No ambiguity, no coming up with feeble excuses a day later.

{Ed002's Note - How would that change the decisions taken?}

10.) 02 Oct 2023
02 Oct 2023 12:54:56
It wouldn't change most decisions but it would show reasons behind those decisions.
The rules are ambiguous and we are told that the officials are the experts in implementing them. Should we just accept that they are always correct in their decision-making? Id like to know why Joe Gomez can be slide-tackled in the penalty area without the opposition touching the ball. If the rules are not transparent id like them explained in real time to prevent so much frustration and vitriol from fans along with cries of corruption.
If the lines of offside were drawn live in the stadium it might negate the chances of ‘human error’.

{Ed002's Note - The officials understand the rules and human error happens. There is certainly no proposal to start trying to analyse the decisions inside the stadium.}

11.) 02 Oct 2023
02 Oct 2023 13:40:56
Im sure there is no proposal (despite it being successful in other sports) as the officials wouldn't want to have their understanding of the rules scrutinised. Unfortunately, human error happens on a weekly basis despite having the technological assistance at their fingertips.

12.) 02 Oct 2023
02 Oct 2023 13:42:56
I understand the sentiment of everyone in this thread, but I have to disagree. If every team walked off it would make PMGOL's position untenable. No lessons are being learned, the dust hadn't even settled on our game and Brentford were denied a clear penalty, ultimately costing them 2 points. This simply cannot continue, this is not football and extreme action needs to be taken.