20 Sep 2023 10:55:46
Hi Ed001. Great review as ever mate. I agree with the posters who have said this team really looks like we can go far this year and I am very excited for the season ahead. I just cannot understand these tactics when every game so far this year has only turned around once we have ditched the inverted FB system and gone back to playing to the players strengths! The red cards, etc., have actually helped us. I honestly think I am going crazy when it seems so blatantly obvious as to how we should play and yet the "powers that be" seems to think this FB system is the best thing ever. Anyway, still exciting times ahead.

{Ed001's Note - it is a head scratcher. I do not understand how Klopp doesn't see it either. I understand Lijnders not spotting it, as it is his baby and he will be looking for the positives, but Klopp should have spotted it by now. For that matter, what about the rest of the coaches? They really should be speaking up by now.}

1.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 11:27:19
Ed001 That’s what I was saying the other day at some point we are not going to turn one of these games around and are form could snow ball if Klopp does not stop this stupidity with this tactic. All so Jota should never start he just is not good enough but is a good impact sub and Mac is not a number 6 he was poor Saturday but after all the travelling he did he should not have started especially with Endo just having played for Japan against Germany he would have been full of confidence. I don’t get signing him then keep playing Mac out of position ok if we have an injury crisis but play the players where they belong. All so ed what do you think is up with Gakpo this season he has been so far off the pace.

{Ed001's Note - I am not sure what has happened with Gakpo, but I agree he hasn't looked right yet. Maybe he is just a slow starter? Bobby used to need 5 or 6 games on the trot to get up to speed, he might just be the same.}

2.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 11:44:17
Hi ed001, I tend to agree with you on this new system. It definitely doesn’t seem a good option when teams are attacking us or set up to counter.

However, in instances where teams are parking the bus, do you think the modified FB role is beneficial?

{Ed001's Note - not really, as teams parking the bus will do that to use the counter.

3.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 11:51:47
Oddly perhaps, I see the Europa League as being key to our season.
By that I mean if any injuries are picked up, to what extent the second string XI can progress and take the tension off the first team.
You'd assume that Endo and Gravenberch will get a run out this week.
If the first XI can stay fit and fresh, and maybe with an addition (or two) in January, things look a whole lot brighter than they did a few months ago.
Klopp looks fit and well too, that is a huge plus.

4.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 12:39:07
Gakpo is still adapting to a new role and played in midfield to start the season. He hasn't really had a chance to just set his feet and own a position. His versatility may end up being his biggest hindrance. The sooner we get him to just playing the Bobby role the better imo.

5.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 13:10:19
I really don't get the excitement of where we're going with this team? I get the we're Liverpool and get behind the lads.
The football was dire to watch and we was lucky to get the 3 points in my opinion.
I am really really hopeful we as a club can be improving and winning trophies but right now I just see an unbalanced team that's had luck on its side.
Hopefully klopp can churn out victories this season and get us back in the champions league.
I am genuinely hopeful that this will be klopps last season. Hopefully he can go with his head held high. ATM for me he's tarnishing his reputation. For what the man achieved he deserves to be remembered fondly, but we need new ideas from a new manager that can get us competing with City Arsenal and any of the other progressing teams.

6.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 13:28:12
Jota should only play as a 9 he’s useless out wide but seems to pop up with goals.

7.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 14:08:02
The system does not work and many of us have been saying it even when it was implemented last season. We all see it. We all know it. Some are not just willing to accept it yet, IMO. How anyone could have thought that a CB stepping in at RB to do a job there for the team could play the inverted role was a good idea, is the stuff of utter insanity. Had this been any other manager like say Ten Hag, we would be laughing our heads off and bantering him for fun.

At the end of the day, Klopp is in charge and if he doesn't, can't or won't see it then, he is setting himself up for a volley cos in the end, Pep work for him and all Pep will do is hide behind Klopp when/ if the repercussions come. I hope I'm wrong, of course.

8.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 14:17:33
Wow Negative. 4 wins and a draw in our first five games this season and on an unbeaten run stretching well into the previous season and you have already started a low-key "Klopp Out" shout. Now I know you are just a troll.

9.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 15:09:08
Edd001 it seems this system imo is to build the team around trent or believe in trents ability to make this system work. It's soo backwards this kind of thinking. We have a lot if very talented footballers that play much better when that inverted sh*te is scrapped. Robbos performance in rhe second half might have reminded klopp he has a top drawer left back when he's allowed to play his full back role like previously.

{Ed001's Note - that is the point, the system is built around one player when there are 11 in the team and that one might not even be available for the games anyway! You have to build a system that focuses on getting the best out of as many of the team as possible.}

10.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 16:59:26
@ Oli

“The system does not work and many of us have been saying it even when it was implemented last season. We all see it. We all know it. ”

The same system under which we are unbeaten since we switched to it and haven’t the longest unbeaten run in the league?

I’m not saying the system is perfect and doesn’t have issues - it does.

But I don’t agree with you that the system doesn’t work. I think it’s worked reasonably well actually and is getting us results.

I know others on here agree too.

11.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 17:38:05
We started playing the inverted system in the 2nd half against Arsenal. 15 games we have won 13 and drawn 2. But the new system is not working? I suggest the old system was the one not working.

{Ed001's Note - we were playing a new system then. Why do people rewrite history to suit their attempts to defend this system? We changed for last season and had a disastrous season, mainly as a result of the change. Towards the end of the season we made a change to match up with Arsenal's inverted full-back set up in the second half and got a result. It caught people off guard last season and unprepared, but this season it has been a disaster, forcing us to continually revert to the actual old system of high press, high-tempo football with attacking full-backs mid-game in order to get results. So yes, this inverted system is not working and it is the change that is fixing the error of continuing to use it. Last season it was fine because opponents had not worked it out, now they know that it creates no width and they can just overload our flanks to get in on our goal.}

12.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 19:13:13
My interpretation is I understand that while he has less mobile players in midfield, the extra man was invaluable to us last season.
Given the players we bought, and the players we already have (Robbo and Tsimi etc) I see no reason to continue the experiment and I said that before a ball had been kicked this season, based only on the signings we made.
Now, if we’d signed a top LCB and reasonably had somebody to step into the Trent role when he was unavailable, there is at least an argument to be made. Without the correct players to fit the system, it’s designed to fail.

13.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 19:21:56
I couldn’t disagree more Ed. Every system has its flaws and weaknesses but the fact that we are unbeaten since we reverted to this system means it works.

You can dress it up as much as you like but it works. In the one game this season we’ve actually been able to adopt the system properly for the full game with Trent was against Villa and it tore them apart.

We can all sit here and pick holes in any system but the bottom line is the results and they’ve been pretty good since we reverted to this system. To be quite honest with you, results are all I care about.

If we have the ability to play this system and tear through teams, like against Villa or if the system isn’t working revert to a more orthodox 442 or 443 and still get the result where’s the problem?

We can all say, yeah but against a better team we’ll get battered but that hasn’t happened has it? Against a better team we could get battered playing more conventional set up too. The argument just doesn’t hold water when you look at what matters, the results.

{Ed001's Note - You seem to have not even watched a game or you would have noticed we have been battered as recently as the last game playing the inverted full-back system, forcing a half time change.}

14.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 20:04:36
I watched it Ed of course. The poor performance was as much about players playing badly as it was the system.

The reason they were able to isolate Gomez so often was because we kept giving the ball away cheaply. That’s one thing in this new system you just can’t do and we did it regularly in the first half.

An inverted fullback had nothing to do with the 3 midfielders being unable to complete a 5 yards pass.

{Ed001's Note - if you say so. But having no width and everyone crammed into the width of the penalty box does not help. This is the problem with analysis, too many are like you and only see a tiny portion of the actual picture and miss most of what is going on.}

15.) 20 Sep 2023
20 Sep 2023 20:39:51
I agree BP. We used to live in a house with subsidence and we kept getting cracks in the walls. I’m sure if we just had stronger paint it would have held it together better. It only fell down after we had moved out though so it’s not all bad.

16.) 21 Sep 2023
21 Sep 2023 00:17:40
That’s such a bad analogy Quo. If you know something is broken you fix it.

Our system is not broken it’s giving us results and when it’s not working we change it and get the result. Plus the more we work on it the better it will get.

It’s become fashionable to criticise this ‘stupid inverted fullback thing’ without looking at the bigger picture, the results.

People complain about teams creating chances against us as if they are not allowed to. I’ve got news for you all, inverted fullback or not teams will still try and succeed in creating chances against us and they will even score against us sometimes.

How dare they and how dare Klopp use a system that allows this kind of thing to happen.

17.) 21 Sep 2023
21 Sep 2023 02:13:10
I have to disagree with your analysis Becker. True, we have gotten results playing this system, especially last season, but I see more flaws in the system than strengths. We may have gotten away with it last season but this season, bar the Aston Villa game, we were battered each time we played this way and only got a result once we changed it. Prior to the change, we looked toothless up front and open at the back each time. And if we have to change the system to get a result, that indicates to me that the system is the problem.

I do think it can work on occasion, as shown in the Aston Villa game. But it should not be our default one. Our players looks so much better and more comfortable playing a simpler system so that should be our default. Trent inverting should be a good option to have when neccessary but that should not be the first thing he looks to be doing each game.

18.) 21 Sep 2023
21 Sep 2023 07:34:13
Sorry Becker but I completely disagree. We were god awful in that first half against Wolves. Someone obviously noticed something and had us revert to the simpler, high press/ high tempo and we looked so much better in that 2nd half. I am just hoping it was Klopp and he has realised that the way to play is not this complicated inverted fullback trash.

19.) 21 Sep 2023
21 Sep 2023 08:04:25
First of all I never seen Gomez up against 3 or 4 Wolves players once in the first half. I seen him, Szobo and Matip (slightly further back) get roasted by Neto for the first goal, albeit a Wolves player did over lap. I seen Gomez get nutmegs on a one on one with Neto again before the Wolves player missed a sitter after it floated over our young CBs head.

Up until this game I don’t think you can criticise any of the 4 goals conceded (2nd best in the league by the way) down to the system we’ve played and also against Chelsea we scored in the first half and Bournemouth we scored 2 in the first half. Against Newcastle we HAD to change early because Virgil got sent off and again Newcastle’s goal comes from an individual error, not the system.

So reality is that only the Wolves game were we changed at HT had a direct impact on our result.

20.) 21 Sep 2023
21 Sep 2023 08:29:21
Beckers Pecker - Our run of results using this system proves absolutely nothing. Liverpool have better players than almost every team they face and should be winning the majority of the time. There is absolutely no reason why a full back needs to be inverting into the middle of the pitch - none whatsoever. It’s a silly idea brought into fashion by Pep Guardiola, a manager who needs to feel special because of the absurdly lopsided advantages he’s enjoyed throughout his career. It doesn’t “give us an extra man in possession”, it clogs up the midfield and signals to the opposition that Trent is looking to play one of his missile long passes, not to mention how it pushes our best player into areas where he is far less devastating. If we want to take advantage of Trent’s quality in possession, just trial him as a full-time central midfielder and see how it goes. A 4-4-2 will be too much for most teams, and we can prepare more specific tactics for elite opposition.

21.) 21 Sep 2023
21 Sep 2023 08:30:56
Ok, I’ll change the analogy (though the first one was fine) . It’s like you sticking with your arguments and trying to squeeze logic from them to save face. The management team seem unable to admit that the tactics are wrong because it means their ideas are wrong. Bar a few games it has only been after reverting back to more standard tactics that we have looked comfortable. The tactics are clearly broken hence why they keep fixing them. How many matches on this run have we not had to revert to a different system in order to have success? How many times in the last 5 years have we changed to suit another team? Hardly ever vs now I’d say.

22.) 21 Sep 2023
21 Sep 2023 08:34:26
Trent didn’t play the inverted role until the second half of the Arsenal game. Since then, we are unbeaten. The main problem has been that the other three in the back 4 have had trouble adapting to it. That will improve. Trent used to get caught out of position in the old system, just that he was high and wide. He can do more damage in the new system. I think you’ll find Klopp agrees with me.

23.) 21 Sep 2023
21 Sep 2023 09:20:34
Becker’s pecker, against villa trent was moving to centre back the only game he’s ever done that so how is that the same system? Bizarre post even by my standards.

24.) 21 Sep 2023
21 Sep 2023 09:37:01
Quo it’s completely the opposite. All these people jumping on the bandwagon in criticising the inverted FB system are grasping at straws every time a team creates a chance against us. Like teams have never created a chance or scored against us ever before.

You give all these reasons why it’s the worst thing that’s ever happened to LFC whilst completely ignoring the fact that since we made the change we have shown title winning form.

I’m not blind, I see the issues with it and I agree at times we will get caught out using it and at times we have and will, need to change it to win games. But we got caught out sometimes with high fullbacks too. Sometimes we had to change and sit in and hit teams on the break.

As a tactic that’s not perfect but I don’t know one that is. The facts are the facts and the results show that whatever we are doing is working. I just think it’s time people acknowledged that and stopped banging on about how much more they know about tactics than the manager.

The results are all that matter.

25.) 21 Sep 2023
21 Sep 2023 15:36:01
If all you see is results then clearly you have the incapability to see the bigger picture. We used to steamroller teams because our system was simple and our energy and quality were rarely matched. Now we have to recover in matches to get a result. Great that we have a team that is capable of doing that, but you ignored my main point really. It is only after we have reverted back to an uncomplicated system that the have wrested control of the match in the majority of matches.