09 Apr 2017 19:21:09
An interesting post further down about certain things involving Liverpool and ed2 opinion on it, namely klopps time at Liverpool so far. Klopp has had basically two seasons at Liverpool and at the very beginning he promised some level of success, ultimately promising the league title. Now a grown Liverpool fan would always take 'promises' with a grain of salt. We know it won't be easy for Liverpool to achieve this even with a top quality manager. We're financially behind the other clubs with a weaker squad than theirs so we have an obvious disadvantage, where we have to work within our means. This does not mean we can't, or that the owners do not back us. They have invested heavily on this club and are much better than our previous owners, even with their constant mistake making and lack of knowledge of the game itself.

I was happy when Klopp took over, it was a change that was required after rodgers tenure at the club which had its ups and downs. I had preferrences as to who I'd like as manager, and I'm sure most of us did, but Klopp was always a very good shout and I'd say most Liverpool fans where delighted. The embarrassing hysterics was what got me at first, certain fans had already rolled out the red carpet for Klopp even after the man himself said, let's not have a party just because I'm here, we have work to do. Fans ignored as if Klopp had earned their respect already even before a ball was kicked. Klopp has to earn respect just like every manager before him, he should be privileged to be here not the other way around, but some fans where so drowned of mediocrity that they kept their rose tinted shades on.

Klopps first season, was a failure. Not so much that he failed himself, but the resulting league finishes and two cup finals that meant nothing in the end meant that it was never a step forward. We took a step forward in terms of the mentality of the club and improvements on the football that was played on the pitch, but the facts are facts and 8th place with no cups is worse than the season before. It was failure under kenny, its failure now. Some fans choose to ignore that. I did not judge Klopp on that season, I knew he was a long term project, but when you hear fans saying 'I'm still over the moon we have klopp' you start to cringe a little, you start to think is this how far we have fallen. Be happy all you want but you have to have expectations, expectations that had to be met this season. Top 4 has been the goal for a while, and not only top 4 but being a stable top 4 team. I went into this season thinking the transfers have been hit and miss, some good, some bewildering, but it's a common theme at Liverpool hence the slightly above average squad. I thought, 5th place seems reasonable, as long as we see improvements elsewhere. I maintained that this was a long term project and even failing to achieve top 4 I knew Klopp was trying to build something that I have some level of faith in, even though it can be erratic at times. We then preceded to challenge for the title up until January, well in top 4 and destined for CL football at the very least. This was the success we knew we would achieve eventually but like rodgers, we knew we where slightly overachieving. But there is no excuses for what happened in January. This was the erratic behaviour I knew that could happen based on the past. This is why I reserved judgement. A combined problem with the players and the management saw us fall out of every competition we where in within 2 weeks with no real idea what the actual problem was, only that it kept happening against teams that where much weaker than us. This made it much more disappointing and the excuse making was getting out of hand. The rut has seemingly stopped and we are now back on form for the time being. Given the position we where in, top 4 should be the minimum we achieve. Anything less is failure. But I maintain that Klopp should obviously continue because it doesn't necessarily mean he's the failure. He is part of the problem as much as he's part of the solution, something I couldn't say with rodgers. I am satisfied with top 4, that is a huge step for us, that would be success. Klopp has done a decent job so far, but he has made mistake. Mistake I and some others have pointed out this season. Some call me negative because I point out these mistakes even though there's no malice or genuine negativity behind my comments. They also say the same thing about ed2 who's knowledge exceedes a lot of ours. At the end of the day though, it's an opinion, and no fan should be told 'you're not a real fan' or 'you're just being negative' when they are trying to be constructive in their support as well as their criticism. I haven't said Klopp out and fans that have, are the microwave fans I feel are a problem, but I get made to be in that bracket because apparently you can't question Klopp or the players and if you do then you're Klopp out. Nonsense. It's a double standard that has to be done with.

As for ed2, at one point I thought he gave Liverpool fans a lot more stick than other fans, I then realised there's a lot more of us here so maybe that's a factor. There's also the case of more fans means more morons. I think he has an unbiased opinion, that people need. Too many people want their ego stroked nowadays and don't want to be told the truth. 'Mirror mirror on the wall who's the most beautiful of them all' comes to mind. You want him to say all these wonderful things that just aren't true or are yet to be proved. I won't say all of the things he says I agree with, but he is right a lot of the time. People use the fact that he's not one of our own to suggest why they don't like him or why he might be wrong but I think that's a shallow way of thinking. If you are a yes man then so be it, but you of all people can not go around waving your wand saying who's a good fan and not, because you're just as bad as the ones calling for Klopp out. We argue over employees of the club, but we will always be here. Remember that next time we bash each other.

Good luck reading that, if you did, pat on the back for you. I hate reading essay posts but I felt I needed to get that off my chest.

{Ed025's Note - i thought it was a good read Kman...kudos mate..

1.) 09 Apr 2017
09 Apr 2017 19:43:17
I agree with you that the fans should take promises with a grain of salt, but I also think that the owners would have taken his promises very seriously and no doubt would be looking for reasons he has not fulfilled them. Which they have every right to do.

2.) 09 Apr 2017
09 Apr 2017 19:46:38
I just can't see klopp making thag kind of promise or even having too. We went for him. He had his pick of clubs from around the world. We needed to sell to him not the ither way round.

{Ed002's Note - Rubbish.}

3.) 09 Apr 2017
09 Apr 2017 20:59:24
With due respect to your opinion, I would like to add few things

1. There is line between criticism and plain bashing of players. Everyone knows our squad has weaknesses and they will be addressed in the transfer window: Mane, Wiji and Matip were good buys. We have to work within our means. But still we need to support our players as long as they put their effort in. I mean why would you tell you boxer before a fight that he is not good enough. even if you maybe right. It doesn't help anyone. We are in a fight to get Top 4 and the team needs our support.

2. Klopp has made mistakes. People like to point at Caulker, Klavan etc. But compare it to what Rodger's bought and you see perspective. People say that Klopp drove Sakho out and he is better than Klavan, Lovren etc. But it was Sakho's fault for not taking things seriously which is disrespectful to the other players and staff who are putting so much effort in. If Sakho can't be professional enough then maybe Liverpool is not his club.

All good managers have a philosophy, they live and die by it. Guardiola, Mou, Wenger come to mind. They don't betray their way of playing, so why do people want Klopp to change.

3. I am behind Klopp and the team. Not because they are world-class and perfect but because they represent my club, they work hard, play awesome football most days and most importantly because Negativity never ever helps.

Stay positive, support the players the best you can. Iam not saying turn a blind eye but stop the constant whining.

{Ed002's Note - And it isd everybody else's fault.}

4.) 09 Apr 2017
09 Apr 2017 22:11:32
Kman, very good read that. I visit this site a lot as well as all the others, and often find your posts are very honest, say it as it is. Supermane just opitimised everything you just said in one post below.

5.) 09 Apr 2017
09 Apr 2017 23:13:25
My question about the above posts is.

We all know how the season has gone.
Great pre. Christmas terrible January etc. etc.
But no one has given a reason for the dip in form.
We perform better against the higher placed teams but fail against the lower placed clubs which in itself a mystery.
Is it psychological? As if it was physical fatigue then we shouldn't be able to match the higher placed teams.

6.) 09 Apr 2017
09 Apr 2017 23:18:19
What Klopp has done well;
made one excellent signing,
got the team scoring again,
completely changed the atmosphere around the club.

What Klopp hasn't done;
made any improvement to our defence,
delivered any consistency.

7.) 10 Apr 2017
10 Apr 2017 04:26:34
What Klopp has also done:

Made 3 quality signings in, Mane, Matip and Wij
Improved our record vs our top 4 rivals
Gotten the best of out players and a squad deemed "average"
12 points better off than at this stage last season
Made Anfield a fortress again
Most points accrued in the PL after 19 games
First double over Arsenal since 2000
Undefeated vs the so-called Super Managers

What he hasn't and MUST do:

Improve the mentality of the team vs lesser teams
Improve the defence
Improve the depth of the squad quality-wise as another Jan meltdown will NOT be tolerated
be more flexible and adaptable to the rigours of the PL.

8.) 10 Apr 2017
09 Apr 2017 21:20:04
Yes ED02. its everybody else's fault :)
Mostly yours. Lol

Few other things which I blame on ED02 and Chelsea in general

1. Liverpool loosing out on Sanchez and Alli
2. Mane, Henderson, Lallana and Sturridge's injury
3. Trump winning elections.
4. Global warming (which Trump denies by the way)

9.) 10 Apr 2017
10 Apr 2017 01:08:03
I disagree with a few things here. If you were hoping that Klopp would win you the PL or get top 4 realistically with the squad low on confidence, bereft of ideas, going nowhere fast (which many thought was full of dross) that BR himself trashed for not being good enough, within the 8 months, then I think you need to give your head a wobble cos that make no sense at all.

Also, I know this is becoming a narrative on BUT Klopp has NOT had two full seasons yet. He didn't have a pre-season to evaluate the squad when he came in midseason cos if he had (like he did this summer), the players who are no longer here now, would have been gone by then. A bit of context is needed here before making such inaccurate and "convenient" statements cos BR, Roy and Rafa, all had a full pre-season in their first season's and BR and Roy didn't win a thing before getting sacked so how has Klopp failed exactly esp. if his first full season is not even over yet?

Finally, if you thought we would win the PL with a small squad with holes in it, blighted by injuries and all that, then you were duped either by the media or by yourself cos NOWAY on God's green earth would that have happened and Klopp NEVER mentioned that we were in for the title.

And even if he said he would win the title this year? So what. he over-promised? Did BR not do that in his tenure here and didn't even make a final in three years and Klopp made two in 8 months with a squad he did not pick? Did Rafa win the PL when he promised he would after six years? NO! And if he's such a failure, why did he get an extension from FSG? Then, John Henry is who your ire needs to go to for paying for a known failure, then.

Klopp is no genius (neither does he pretend to be one) and is prone to mistakes like EVERY other manager in sports and needs to improve BUT it seems the knives are out for him now cos we drew a game vs B'mouth and pulled a win out of the hands of defeat, 18 points won from losing positions (Best in the PL), 12 points better off than ;last season but clearly we have gone backwards. GET A GRIP!

10.) 10 Apr 2017
10 Apr 2017 10:22:30
Are the defensive lapses a result of the team being set up to attack the ball as far up the pitch as possible?

This obviously leaves a lot of space behind for the opposition to exploit on a counter attack especially when the 2 full backs are high up the pitch providing width.

Compare this with the likely champions elect who seem to defend deeper as a team and then counter attack with the lightening pace of Hazard, Willian etc. With Kante all the while backing up play while protecting the defence.