02 Nov 2018 19:58:32
Shout out to ED002, you told us everything about the break away leagues and their alternative a long long time ago. First time I read about it here was in 2009! Amazing job sire, massive respect to you.

1.) 02 Nov 2018
02 Nov 2018 21:14:11
Incredible insight as always from Ed002. The league still doesn’t sit right with me personally but us mere fans have little say 😂.

2.) 02 Nov 2018
02 Nov 2018 21:28:58
Maybe I didn't read it thoroughly enough, but is that league to replace the champions league or is it a break away European league meaning Liverpool, Man U, Man City, Arsenal, and Chelsea would leave the Premier League?

3.) 03 Nov 2018
03 Nov 2018 00:12:38
Stone. Correct me if I'm wrong but, I think Ed 002 has stated that Liverpool won't initially be part of a break away league. It will mean that teams will be leaving the Premier league and other top leagues around Europe, meaning the football league will be reformed.

4.) 03 Nov 2018
03 Nov 2018 01:45:29
According to ED02 the top European teams would leave their leagues and join to create a pan-european league.
However I recall that ED02 kept stating that Liverpool were not involved or had not been invited to join such discussions.
So it is interesting to see the rags write LFC are involved.

ED02 also suggested that such a break away league would lead the the exisiting premier league set-up to possibly be disbanded as such a league would leave the league financially very much weaker.

BTW this is all from memory so I could be wrong on somw of it.

But this all gies to prove how insanly this ED02 chap is connected and knowledgable on football matters.
I for one have stopped reading newspapers for football news of any kind - there is no doubts to be had in ED02 info.

5.) 03 Nov 2018
03 Nov 2018 11:23:48
the latest reports have Liverpool, Man City, Man U, Arsenal, and Chelsea all involved.

{Ed002's Note - That is incorrect.}

6.) 03 Nov 2018
03 Nov 2018 13:33:06
Ok thank you ed. I know that if I want accurate information that I’ll get it here from you.

7.) 03 Nov 2018
03 Nov 2018 15:05:32
No Arsenal?

{Ed002's Note - Arsenal has been involved in the discussions but has so far been one of the clubs not to commit to the breakaway, or explicitly say they won't be joining. Having now looked at what Der Spiegel has actually written it is clear that they have generally gotten matters right but have muddled what appears to be probably three or possibly four pieces of information, one of which is perhaps four years old. A lot has happened in that period and the "elite" sides continue to meet between one and three times a year to discuss matters, including this. I am pretty sure that I have sahred a lot of information, but certainly not all. You need to remember that this is not something new and there has been much publicitly given to the efforts of UEFA and others, to some extent now involving FIFA, to block it and somehow keep these clubs happy. There are counter-proposals to the pan-European breakaway that have partially been backed by UEFA to try and save their own skin. The first proposal is to rename and change the format of the UEFA Champions League to make it an elite closed-shop pan-European league with a fixed number of teams – and these would be the same teams every year and be based on past winners of the Champions League and European Cup and a few (not specified) more. It would then require the restructuring of the Europa League and the possible introduction of a lower-tier European competition again. Although they have yet to flesh out the detail and there is now a major concern that the impetus for this is not coming from Europe, although one major Football Association has given their support and discussions have also been held with the leading clubs from England (Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal - which is where Der Spiegel have their list from). The American backer, Stephen Ross, of the Miami Dolphins has on several occasions requested a meeting with an extant group of sides considering the pan-European breakaway to discuss his proposals. They have still yet to respond but having identified the source of much of the funding (and that raising a concern) will wish to discuss it between themselves first. This has dragged on for a year or more and nothing has happened - and I doubt it will but FIFA and some Japanese fincing are now supporting his proposal.

UEFA are also considering a variant proposal that would see some places in the CL fixed (probably to previous winners) and then see it supplemented by Champions and second place sides each season. This complicates matters again as it means the re-introduction of a third competition or the significant restructuring of the EL. The plan put to clubs is a summer/preseason tournament that will evolve in to a parallel league, and of course eventually in to a complete breakaway for these clubs. As a first step to all of this, UEFA have negotiated minor changes that will see the four entrants from England, Germany, Spain and Italy enter the existing Champions League group stages without any qualification beyond their National League position (so no entry to qualifying rounds). This has been agreed by the European Club Association but UEFA did not want to discuss it with the separate group of “elite” sides discussing the Pan European League (and that “elite” group includes three English sides) as they are aware they will get no more than a shrug and no long-term support - and that is where we are now.

Another major counter proposal is a Chinese proposal from the Dalian Wanda Group proposes to open up the lucrative Chinese and Far Eastern media markets by extending the league to include Chinese and South American clubs. This has yet to be discussed by the "elite" sides as a group although the proposals have been presented to a number of them already on an individual basis. The proposals are very broad-based and lack detail - their selling point is significant additional income for the "elite", European "guest" sides, Asian sides and South American sides. The general feeling from informal discussions over cocktails is that the "elite" would not want it on a league basis but could be open to including other sides in a some sort of expanded World Club championship. FIFA see this as something they could control, hence their involvement in the matter. THis is also something that was added to the agenda of the Autumn 2018 council meeting but there was no vote - and little discussion I am told.}

8.) 03 Nov 2018
03 Nov 2018 16:11:49
Outstanding Ed, thank you so much.

9.) 03 Nov 2018
03 Nov 2018 20:03:01
Wow ed002.
That blew me away. Thanks!

10.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 00:01:54
Will Brexit have any effect on this ed002?

Personally I don’t think I could support a club in a European league. It would be a bit of a sideshow for me, like the world club cup. I’d have to support a team in England.

It might be a positive thing for the game, get rid of the mercenary rich kids playing with our game and bring back some integrity to football.

{Ed002's Note - No Ron, it is unrelated to Brexit and the European Union. I am not sure of the rationale behind switching your allegiance if Liverpool have shifted up to a pan European league but Everton would welcome your support no doubt. When Liverpool were part of the last evil breakaway did you also consider no longer supporting them? There is a natural progression and things are going to change, like it or not. I assume you would never go to a supermarket nor drive a car with 5 gears nor use a credit card?}

11.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 01:09:18
No ed002 I’m not a Luddite. I just won’t be watching or fully engaging with a competition that doesn’t take place in the UK. The champions league is special because it is a rarity and you have to be successful in your domestic league to qualify. Plus most matches are midweek sandwiched between the premier league.

A pan European league will have no interest for me. Do I care if Real Madrid are better than Liverpool or PSG are better than Liverpool?

No, I care if Man Utd is better than Liverpool, I care about being the best in the Uk. How many Real Madrid fans will I be able to taunt down the pub? How many PSG fans will I meet at work?

The money men just don’t understand football and if they do leave the best and most successful league in the world - the premier league - then it will be to their detriment. Football in England will thrive with or without these so called “elite clubs”.

{Ed002's Note - Ron, it really doesn't bother me if you decide to support another side instead of Liverpool.}

12.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 04:53:29
Ed002 apologies if I misunderstood, but is this breakaway league designed to completely replace standard domestic league play? Or will teams still participate in their domestic league and just replace UCL/ cups. I understand if it’s the latter there would likely be adjustments made anyways but I was just curious.

{Ed002's Note - If the clubs get what they want then they will leave their existing leagues. If I had to speculate, I would think (1) you might eventually see something like five or six EPL teams leave for two-tier pan European league - but it won't be based on the UEFA rankings; (2) the Premier League would be disbanded as an organisation; (3) the FA would restructure in to two 20 team divisions with lower leagues regionalised as they were many years ago; (4) FIFA would ban all players from the breakaway teams from International football - perhaps rescinding that position to stop FIFA breaking up as well - they don't want further issues but the troubles are not going to go away. I could also see many teams lose their professional status. I would think we are probably 10 years away from any significant move at this time.

I hold a reasonably strong view in terms of the need to restructure football in Europe in any case. For me an eventual a breakaway pan-European league would force the restructuring of many of the national leagues, possibly resulting in a British league with perhaps only a couple of professional tiers and then regionalised amateur leagues below that. Financially I do not see that so many pro sides can be sustained within the sport which, like it or not, will see more and more money going in to the highest levels of the game. Governments will ensure that grassroots sport get funding but everything in the middle (Southern, Northern, Conference, Division 2, Scottish Divisions 1-3, League of Wales will not get the funding needed to continue on any sort of professional basis. For me, clubs should already recognise this and put their efforts in to getting there finances in order to see if they can make it to a British professional league that will need to flourish without perhaps six sides that have eventually gone down the pan-European route - and have gone for good (it would be two or perhaps three initially). Clubs like Accrington Stanley will need to carry on as amateurs or face extinction (yet again). Recently Hartlepool has been struggling - again it needs to adapt. The mighty Third Lanark have started their long journey back to the top - it can be done.

The game has changed significantly and will continue to do so whether the Liverpool supporters like it or not. Football at the highest level is big business and attracts the sponsorship it does because the sponsors wish to tap in to the disposable income of the fans and ride the back of the advertising that flows naturally from the success some clubs achieve. Long gone are the days of the cloth-capped, hobnailed-booted, chimney sweep making his way, rattle in hand, to cheer on his team at Anfield on a Saturday afternoon. I have explained that there will be changes, probably within the next 10 to 12 years, which will force the restructuring of all of the leagues in Europe and likely do away with the likes of UEFA. You will have the opportunity to see the likes of Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus and the other major European sides play in week-on-week regular competition at The Emirates, St James Park, Stamford Bridge or wherever. Fans of the sides who take the plunge will have the opportunity to visit cities such as Milan, Barcelona, Munich, etc. every couple of weeks to watch their team play. If you want to don your cloth cap, have a pint of wallop with your chums before going off to the local match through the grim, wet and cobbled streets of the Northwest of England where there is smog, dead & dying pit ponies laying on the street and only chips and fried curry to eat., perhaps one of the sides from the suburbs will have survived so you can go and watch them?

If UEFA get what they want they will tighten their grip but the existing leagues would be intact and they would have expand competitions that would bring more income.

If FIFA get what they want they will leverage the popularity of the European sides to leverage the Asian markets.}

13.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 12:42:15
Ah I love threads like this when Ed2 posts info about things we'd never have a clue about! . Thank you very much Ed2, have a great day mate.

14.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 13:04:24
Totally agree with you Ron.

15.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 14:31:45
Der Spiegel gives a fair breakdown of the events and communications rumours. English version


16.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 15:02:18
Ed002 you’re the smartest rodeo clown and gentleman adventurer around. Thanks as always. I can’t see myself liking this change but at the end of the day I love the game. I’m sure I’d eventually come around to watching it. I can’t help but wonder what the finances would be like. Would they continue with a FFP sort of system that permits spend what you earn? Or perhaps an NBA/ NFL type salary cap? I would think this breakaway league would run the risk of setting up huge financial disparities just like current leagues are facing. Surely a breakaway league would want every team to be competitive.

17.) 05 Nov 2018
05 Nov 2018 14:13:09
If this happens ticket prices and tv subscription will be climbing exponentially.

18.) 08 Nov 2018
08 Nov 2018 09:12:23
I fancy a pint of wallop.