28 Mar 2018 20:43:20
Regarding any Standing returning to Anfield - MK, I understand there is a lot of emotion surrounding this particular subject.

I agree with some of your views and am personally in no place to argue over the structural claims made as i have no qualifications or experience in that field. What I would say is that I would hope all the issues were looked at before construction and people constantly standing would not be enough to jeopardise the integrity of the structure.

In terms of standing meaning more people in the same sized area, that would not be the case. The proposed safe standing in England would be a one seat for one seat with stand basis, The standing installed would need to also have retractable seats for the European ties in the champions league. I have looked at the Rushden and Diamond safe standing area on google and from what I can see it is completely different type of standing than the type I am referring to. Here is a link with an image showing the type of standing areas I am suggesting. This also gives you a visual representation of how, in my opinion your comment on him being able to fall, is better than crushed is an unfair comparison as the bars stop people crushing forward into the people in front of them.

goo.gl/JpmrV1

One of the things you said I do agree with is about the difference in fan culture between England and Germany, although personally I do not believe that would have anymore of a negative impact than what it already does when adding standing areas into the equation. I say this because every fan already stands at away games, if you want to watch the game at an away game you need to be standing in order to see.

I do however disagree with your point on policing, The policing situation at Hillsborough was down to failing to control the amount of people they were allowing into the stadium. I'm not sure how having safe standing areas that are clearly set out into individual areas with numbers would hurt the polices ability to control the amount of people anymore than as it is now. It would not effect the amount of people being allowed into the stadium and
as shown in multiple other countries can be successfully stewarded with the correct training.

I'm more than happy to agree to disagree, everybody is entitled to their own opinions. But i do feel it a necessity to have an open dialogue between fans for and against safe standing. Both sides have valid points and arguments. People on both sides need to do the research and educate themselves on the subject before making concrete opinions as I have spoke to people for safe standing that just want a better atmosphere, when in reality my key focus is on safety. I have also spoke to people against safe standing that have not actually looked at the type of seating being proposed and have an opinion based on safe standing being the pen cages of old, which is 100% not the case.

Its nice to have these discussions and share opinions, even if at the end we still disagree. My key focus is on making football matches safe, and as of now after personal experiences and the statistics of injuries at games I do not believe it to be. Maybe a new seating style needs to be invented to stop surges yet to allow supporters to sit, fingers crossed this will happen in the future.

1.) 28 Mar 2018
28 Mar 2018 20:59:50
Seats are allocated and you don’t move.

If standing is introduced then people can move around and no longer be in the spot they purchased.

This then creates lateral, as opposed to vertical, movement.

To stop people moving too much you then have to restrict their lateral movement.

Not something that should return. Ever.

2.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 00:30:34
I can tell you are very passionate about this mate, and I'm glad there is more to your argument than "atmosphere".

I Don't know if you read Waro's first hand account of Hillsborough on the original thread, but if not, you should. I doubt it will change your mind, but it might help you to understand why I Don't support it.

I can't back it for as long as even one person who was affected by Hillsborough is against it. I simply have to back them. They've fought for justice for nearly 3 decades and endured horrors nobody should ever have to see.

I fully respect your opinion, but as you say, I will agree to disagree. I hope yourself and Smeg Don't still think my view on this is "mindless". I just can't back something that killed 96 Liverpool fans, no matter what tweaks are made.

3.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 02:14:47
For the record I am neither for or against standing, I can’t get to many games but I would rather sit than stand, that’s a personal choice. However I do think there should be an open discussion rather that just shutting down the whole subject. Obviously the families of those who died in 89 need to be consulted and I believe some of them will be visiting Celtic at the weekend, I just think all of the facts and possibilities need to be explored before a decision should be made.

4.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 10:09:51
I see people trying to revisit and revise history all the time. It's a part of human nature, I guess. But I really don't understand the motivation or why LFC is considering this "standing" option.

I respect people's rights to have an opposing point of view. However, we've seen Ed01 say that it was found by the investigation that the Hillsborough tragedy was related to standing. We've read a first hand account of the horrific events by Waro and we're also reading various impassioned posts by MK and Smeg (among others) . And Ed002 has said that it's basically only the hospitality seats that add any value to the club's coffers - so any financial gain for the club from standing is probably nil.

So I don't get it. Why is the club even looking at this? Where is the gain and to whom? The facts all point to a genuine safety hazard - one of which the club faced, and after the tragedy, commemorated with a memorial.

Human memory is selective and fickle, at best.

5.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 17:38:25
I am MK, yes. And I would like to add that before the incident that caused serious injury to my gfather at Anfield I shared the same opinions of yourself and Waro. After the injury I took it upon myself to find out more about safe standing as it had been brought up in a conversation whilst discussing what happened. I discovered it was nothing like I had pictured in my head and after booking to go and check out a stadium that had the railed seating in place it completely changed my mind.

I did read through Waro, s account of what happened and cannot imagine what it was like. The emotion surrounding the subject is always going to be there and nobody should ever question somebody who was there's opinion on standing. Although like I have done with 2 members of my family, who were directly effected by the tragedy, I would encourage you to travel to Europe and see how safer railed seating has made standing at games safer. Even if its from a distance. I travelled with two people, both firmly against railed seating, one changed their mind, one didn't, but both came away with a far better understanding of how this style of seating is being safely implemented across Europe.

As for Smeg Head, I agree with your statement. I'm also not bothered with sitting at football matches, but as we all know it is not possible to sit all game, especially away. My point is to make standing safer than a small plastic chair in front of you being your only protection when you're forced to stand during the game. All facts and possibilities should be explored even if minds are not changed, its about making football safer.

6.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 09:15:04
European fans are different to English fans
Sitting is safer than standing
Safety is number 1 consideration
Atmosphere argument is a total fallacy. Newcastle 4-3, Chelsea CL semi final. 🤝.