Liverpool Banter Archive October 30 2015

30 Oct 2015 19:59:20
4 games in and I am still excited by the klopp appointment. I know it has been 3 draws and a win. But the improvements are obvious already
1.Press conferences no need to say anymore.
2. Klopp interest in young players and review of loan "system"
3. With klopp you feel it is about the club rather than him, he is going to try to build something like he did at Dortmund . He is humble and has depth he doesn't talk for the sake of it.
4. Our defensive shape is much better.
I am convinced klopp is the right man for the job and tbh I was surprised he came to us, from talking to man utd and arsenal fans they would have had klopp in a heartbeat. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

30 Oct 2015 20:42:29
It's true what Klopp says though sending players out on loan for the sake of it and end up not playing when they could be spending that time to train with the first team at Melwood.
Play together even if in the U21 league so that they could build deeper relationships on the field to take into the first team.
Be properly monitored and assessed so that we will have better information on whether to go out and buy players or if the better option is to promote from within.

Rather that approach than sending a hand full on 18 year olds on season long loans.

30 Oct 2015 16:54:36
I hope Ibe gets a start tomorrow. He looked a lot better last game linked up well with Firminio. Moreno, Ibe and Clyne give us really good pace.

30 Oct 2015 18:27:20
I just hope Firmino starts instead of Lallana - he added the bit of class and and spark to Wednesday night's game that we'be been missing.

30 Oct 2015 18:51:56
Rather him play than couthinio at the moment he's offering nothing, he must be only Brazilian that can't do a simple 5 yrd pass seems like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders.

30 Oct 2015 19:45:16
Pressure heaped on him from previous regime. Lad needs a break.

31 Oct 2015 00:13:09
Hey let's get behind all that play; maybe the more we get behind them the more will want to play and cause the manager selection issues.

4 games and we are slating players. tut tut.

30 Oct 2015 13:14:56
I just read on this page by a poster that firminho is better than coutinho because he is picked more for brazil?
Are fans already drinking before Halloween with that type of thinking.
for the sober posters. Coutinho is certainly not at his best but aren't most of the players recovering from Rodgers era? Very few are in top form and klopp has only been in the job a couple of weeks, not to mention coutinho has been dropping deeper to receive the ball as the midfield lack serious quailty going forward. The "top class" Milner certainly hasn't been helping in midfield.
Back coutinho lads. he's our best player on form and carried the team last season. He was the only one scoring the goals and even if he has a poor game he has the quality to win the game in any moment.

30 Oct 2015 13:37:27
You don't seriously believe Coutinho is better than Firmino do you? Firmino is a proven 10-20 goal a season player. Coutinho gets about 5. Last season Gerrard and Sterling were actually our primary goal threats. Coutinho had one good month were he hit about 4 in 4 games. He is massively inconsistent.

A great player when he's on form but since he's been at the club he's showed absolutely no signs of improvement offensively.

I honestly can't believe people rate him as our best player. I'd put Lucas, Sakho, Henderson, Sturridge, Clyne and Firmino ahead of him.

If Barcelona are genuinely interested his price will sky rocket. We'd be wise to sell him whilst his stocks high. Before everyone realises just how wasteful and inconsistent he is.

30 Oct 2015 13:44:12
Coutinho is very on and off, firmino when he is use to the league will be better for more of the time.

30 Oct 2015 13:51:10
Frimino scores more, but creates less. Probably because he plays further up front. They are very different players, neither are suitable or best for every chance or every opportunity.

30 Oct 2015 13:53:05
Coutinho is a good player. Miles of the level of Madrid and Barcelona though. He is becoming very selfish though always trying to be a hero. As for firmino I'd suggest you to go and watch some of his games from Germany. He was at his best better than Coutinho. Coutinho first need to work on hi consistency. One good month in a whole season is not good.

30 Oct 2015 14:21:41
Why are fans all of a sudden so critical about Coutinho? Every player goes through inconsistancy. You all raved about him not so long ago! I see Coutinho as trying to hard to get Liverpool back on track, he clearly feels much of the burden lies with him as he is one of the very few genuinely creative players we have. I see a player whO is desperately trying to raise his game and not someone who's been turned by the lure of the Spanish giants. YNWA.

30 Oct 2015 14:28:14
Too early to judge Firmino.

30 Oct 2015 14:43:37
Coutinho turned 23 in the summer. Give him a break. he's still young and inconsistent but i want him in a Liverpool shirt for a long time because unlike flavour of the month fans he's still our best player.

30 Oct 2015 14:49:32
Agree with Ron for once. People harping on about Firmino like he's the messiah come again.

Half of these people probably only saw youtube tid-bits before he joined us and have declared him world class.

30 Oct 2015 14:58:15
Firmino has only scored more than 10 league goals once in his career and it was two seasons back in 13/14. Outside of that season, he's been a consistent 5-10 goals per year player, similar to Coutinho really.

30 Oct 2015 15:06:22
Hsf
that's true however i have seen firminho and he is a very good player. Its not whoa better between firminho and coutinho ultimately, its some certain fans who haven't a clue about players quailty underestimating what a player coutinho has been for us. The boy has only turned 23'

30 Oct 2015 14:03:12
Why can't we keep both? All of a sudden Coutinho is crap and we should definitely sell him because we have a player who hasn't even completed 90 minutes for us yet and played decent against an injury hit Bournemouth. Who needs Klopp eh. Yes Firmino is very gifted, but he is still adjusting. quite frankly I would like to keep both players as long as possible as they are both extremely talented young individuals who will both improve the squad.

30 Oct 2015 16:28:17
Al think you'l find firmino on form while couts looks jaded is what's folks saying. I am of that opinion .

30 Oct 2015 17:12:22
Why has firmino suddenly added a h to his surname? It's like ilori and the L.

30 Oct 2015 17:22:01
Clyne better than Coutinho? I think you need to keep the hyperbole in check Adam. IMO Coutinho is LFC's best player, and as good as Firmino maybe, he has done nothing so far for LFC yet, so some poor points all over there.

{Ed001's Note - Clyne is an extremely average right back with a lack of positional awareness, who is easily distracted chasing after his man when he should be passing him over to the many players we already have in the middle. Coutinho is an excellent attacking midfielder who is suffering from a lack of options to play the ball to, nothing more.}

30 Oct 2015 17:22:10
Btw coutinho single handedly dragged us out the duldrums at times last year. He was consistent. especially from deep. Calling Clune better is f ing insulting. Come on adam.

30 Oct 2015 17:37:45
Llorhi.

30 Oct 2015 18:30:25
I'll give you an agree there Ron. Rather funny. even if you're a habitual offender.

30 Oct 2015 18:34:16
Isn't firmino only 24 himself?
Not seen enough of firmino to judge if he is better than coutinho or not, firmino does look the real deal though and coutinho has always been inconsistent to me. But yeah both are young and we should have a good idea who is better after a season or 2.

30 Oct 2015 18:39:19
Real Ag
with you on that man but i couldn't entertain talking to a certain brick wall.
bobatron, yes coutinho did and that has been forgotten. I mean the boy hasn't had sturridges movement or Henderson giving him the ball to feet near the goal. Coutinho will shine again soon enough.

30 Oct 2015 21:00:17
I only do it for a giggle boba. Like Flirminho. 😉.

31 Oct 2015 04:13:54
Don't understand why people feel the need to pit Coutinho against Firmino. Both must be first team starters if we are going to be successful.

Coutinho's form, it has been said, has been off.

The real problem is that he needs to play with creative forwards with movement and pace. Suarez offered that in spades. Sterling too. Sturridge as well.

Right now, instead of Suarez, Sterling, Studge, it's mainly been Origi, Milner, Lallana. No movement, zero pace, and little technical ability (beyond Lallana, who ball watches too often) . Benteke, too, moves better than Origi, but also doesn't do pacey, creative runs. He's waiting for crosses in the box.

So, with zero options to feed, or play off, Coutinho has been frustrated and tries to do it himself; but he's not fast enough to penetrate the box alone, so he blasts outside the box, or has been dispossessed.

And we need more pace, skill, movement in front of Coutinho.

Firmino *does* do creative runs and has the quality to beat a man or two with a technical dribble (OR A MEG! ), but realizing this doesn't mean we sit Coutinho.

Rather, we should drop Coutinho deeper, into a no. 8 position. where he can get back to playmaking instead of trying to blast inaccurate shots off outside the box.

In short, people have been on Coutinho's case, but I strongly believe his dip in form is mostly explained by the dip in quality of the players he's been playing with.

As I've said before: Coutinho's best game? Aston Villa, where he linked with Sturridge.

30 Oct 2015 12:03:59
Ho eds and reds,

First post for a while, was just wondering that with klopp clearely happy to use the youngsters if he feels they are good enough, do you believe that Allan could be in for a cameo any time soon?

Believe that he was impressive in finland (massive difference in quality of league and players) he scored twice and had 5 assists in about 13 games i believe.

Any reply would be appreciated.

{Ed002's Note - No, he doesn't have a work permit.}

30 Oct 2015 11:36:49
Ok so if everybody's fit, who would u all have playing in the midfield? For me has to be Lucas, Hendo, can in the centre pushing firmino and coutinho into the wide positions. What do you all think?

30 Oct 2015 11:48:24
Think Firmino is wasted out wide needs to play central for me just behind the striker.

30 Oct 2015 11:52:27
I wouldn't be against that central 3 however I think Can has to step it up a couple of gears. He is still a young lad and obviously has the potential but I think he has been average this season.
His decision making can be poor and has a tendency to get caught on the ball too often.
I do think that Hendo and Lucas are shoe-ins at the moment when fit.

30 Oct 2015 12:48:11
Personally still think the players we have would be suited to a diamond as we have no natural wingers apart from maybe IBE but even he seems to want to cut inside all the time. Would like to see firminho playing off benteke upfront, coutinho at the top of the diamond, lucas at the base and henderson and can either side.

30 Oct 2015 11:31:26
Chelsea Game:

We need to boss the game, take it to Chelsea and i hope the players show Klopp that he has come to a great club with great players. We beat Chelsea that will be a great confidence boost for all of us from the manager to the fans. Benteke has to start with coutinho and firmino behind him possibly texiera for the first half and attack them and hopefully hit them hard. I just can't see anything but a Liverpool win here as Chelsea have struggled all season with results i just hope tomorrow isn't the day they decide to turn up.

30 Oct 2015 11:37:19
Jose will do exactly like he did when they came to anfield year before last (the gerrard slip game), will NOT want to lose but hopefully get lucky on the break.

30 Oct 2015 12:34:25
lfc-1984

its a good job Chelsea aren't as good at defending then lol.

hopefully we get the 3 points but it is still going to be a tough game.

30 Oct 2015 09:24:22
From what seen frim klipperty it seems, he is giving due importance to skrtel and lucas.

At the same time youngsters who will get regular chances going to be origi and can.

I would like to see both belgians playing for liverpool. origi and benteke upfront.

30 Oct 2015 03:37:47
Hi ed001

I've heard many people compare Rossiter to Gerrard. I watch clips of him on youtube, and I just can't see it. If anyone, his play more resembles Scholes in my opinion.

Would you agree?

{Ed001's Note - no, I don't think he resembles either, he has far more defensive responsibility then the pair of them.}

30 Oct 2015 05:59:08
More similar to Lucas in style and position than Gerrard or Scholes IMO.

30 Oct 2015 06:00:59
He is a fine passér of the ball and could also work on his defensive attributes. All he need is regular playing time, nothing else.

30 Oct 2015 06:04:34
So he's like a deep-lying playmaker? Because if he's a DM then I had no idea.

{Ed001's Note - it is far too early to say for sure, he has shown an ability in the past to make those driving runs Gerrard made, also to sit deep and spray passes, but it is hard to be sure what role will suit him best until he physically matures. He might bulk out into a powerhouse, though I would think that unlikely, ala Yaya in time. It really is just about teaching them technique and positional sense as kids and letting them evolve naturally. One of the major mistakes in youth development in the UK is the way players are shoehorned into one role early on. They need to be play in different positions more to gain a better understanding of the game itself.}

30 Oct 2015 06:10:05
But first, he needs to recover from his injuries.

30 Oct 2015 06:24:48
Yeah fair enough.

I only said Scholes just because of the way he moves and his stature. Scholes was also a bit more deep-lying.

What you say about the youth development is interesting, because wasn't Sterling upset with Rodgers because Rodgers *didn't* shoehorn him into one role?

{Ed001's Note - Scholes first started off as a striker in first team football, he dropped deeper later in his career, as he matured. Sterling was bothered about being used in the first team in a role he was unsuited to, not about being used in the youth teams in a role to learn from. There is a huge difference. Sterling played a number of different positions at youth level and learnt a great deal from doing so, including which role he was best suited to playing and which he was utterly unsuited to, such as striker. The problem is that the manager had never bothered to watch him play at that level to see what he was suited to and which roles did not suit him.}

30 Oct 2015 07:39:24
Lol, so that's why I always used to somehow score with Paul Scholes if I played as United in this 2000/01 champions league computer game I had. unless I was great at scoring goals from midfield.

Thanks for clearing up that situation about Sterling. I could never decide if he was a better winger or attacking mid, but I always knew he's not a striker.

{Ed001's Note - he had played at wing back and full back to learn how to play the wing role more effectively, it was bizarre that he was suddenly switched up front when we had strikers not even getting in the squad. If he had given Sterling some help, so he was playing off someone, that would have been closer to his skillset. Putting him up front on his own was just plain idiotic and showed a complete lack of tactical understanding.

Scholes was a very decent striker in his first season or two, but even better when played deeper as he evolved his game.}

30 Oct 2015 08:58:55
And there is the problem for academy players we have gone from comparisons to Gerrard then to Scholes and even onto yaya. What expectations does that place on the kid.

For me even though I am being a hypocritical user and will accept any critism I receive if he is like anyone it is more Roy Keane. Energy, atrirutude and heart. Followed by good skill levels. I don't think he is going to hit 15 in a season nor do o think he is going to dictstw a game, but does Lucas and how much do we need him in the set up. If the plan in the future is to pair rossiter and say brannagan then that's a perfect mix going on.

Another thing ed you alluded earlier to playing different positions when younger, is there not a fear that you will become a jack of all trades and a master at none. Yes it improves the understanding of the game but at what point do they get to nail down there position. I also know that pepjin wants the kids to be training in one position and mastering it as he isn't a fan a of playing all different postion, do you think his influence will go down into the academy or is his job to just ease transition into the first team for these players and inglethorpe sets out hos vision for the academy?

Sorry for being a hypocrite and if it seemed like I was just trolling, its notibgz againt the actual posters but just in gernsral the problems the kids face is purely down tk the expectations we put on them. I mean origi is receieving comments noa saying he should be dropped after what a few starts and ir definatly comes partially from big brendans he has the potential to wbe world class comments, as we all expect that bow rather than just letting the kids get on with him game.

One way I try to look at it is I was still living at me mums when I was 20 and yet we expect a 20 year old to be the worlds best stirker and to live the perfect life etc just ask yoyrselfs did you?

{Ed001's Note - I was not comparing him to Yaya at all, quite the opposite. I was pointing out that they can develop a number of ways as their body matures and it is pointless to make the kind of comparisons people do.

Players should develop into one position as they mature, rather than being forced into one and kept there while young. The jack of all trades thing is nonsense, that is nothing to do with developing them as children, where they learn very little from only playing one position. Pepjin is not in charge of that decision, he is with the first team, not the academy now.}

30 Oct 2015 10:00:08
Reminds me more of jay spearing, hopefully I'm wrong.

30 Oct 2015 10:39:27
Take emre can for example.

Lb and lw for Leverkusen, lb, rb, cb, cm for us and rb for Germany. He doesn't actually have a position that's his and I also see him tactical understanding for his own preferred position iskt there and we paid nearly ten mil and gppd wages and we have yo teach this kid how to play that position. Would it pf not been better to have been for the most part of his youth, tp be learning the ins and outs of the postition, how yo read the game. He has all the skill but not the brain and now there isn't much patience in football might he always be that player that players everywhere but his own position.

I get maybe looking at a player and going you know what he will be better here or there. I did it as a coach we had a lb who was like bale for pace I might add but couldn't cross to save his life and didn't fit the position but was great driving with the ball and tackling so we put him at lcb and he was fantastic, bailed us out numerous times with his pace but when we got better him having more time in the ball in the middle was good aswel.

But just moving someone for the sake of it isn't the best in my own view. If there deemed not good enough cor there own postiin then try a move for sure, you might have someone like Randall who maybe doesn't suit rb but could do a better job and cb but I he is going to be a good rb then keep that development going and work on all his weaknesses, rather than say he could do a job elsewhere and potentially neglect his development at his proper postipn.

30 Oct 2015 11:43:09
I think more a Van Bommel type, no nonsense commanding mid with calmness and ability on the ball. He seems like he will have that heart on the sleeve hardman persona as he matures and just is a natural leader.

30 Oct 2015 15:55:16
Similar in style to Daniel do rossi for me.

29 Oct 2015 23:28:28
The real ag, i generally agree and like to read your posts, but why are you so against the youngsters to start? Regardless of the opposition, if they're good enough then play them. experience isn't everything pal. Sometimes it's turns out better for them playing against world class players rather okay players. Imo, tex should get his chance on Saturday. lallana doesn't warrant his place due to experience. Let's just hope the team play well regardless of personel, and the red men take the points YNWA.

30 Oct 2015 02:22:42
And one game against relatively week opposition does not mean you are the business. A controlled transition is the best way for all. He has had one senior start. The champions away may not be the best place for his second.

30 Oct 2015 04:07:17
I am definitely not against youth being given a chance, kuckles. I have often endorsed younger players and think we need to utilize our youth system better as under Rodgers, it had become perfunctory.

But I still don't think it's a good idea to start him in a high stakes game like the one tomorrow, and that is regardless of what he did on Wednesday. It's my opinion on the matter, and nothing more. But it is more probable that Lallana and Coutinho will start anyway as they were rested by Klopp against Bournemouth.

30 Oct 2015 07:16:27
AG
Yes maybe the Chelski of last season is what your thoughts based on? Theee is no better time to play this Chelski team. Injuries loss of form bans and confidence. Jose losing the plot and the media / owner pressure. Now us bouyed from jurgen's arrival He has to make the step up one day? Think after his midweek performance he deserves a shot along with firmino? Play your form players it may gee the rest up who knows we may even score a couple of goals? With couts an lallana we just about managing 1 ( goal)

30 Oct 2015 10:15:49
Knuckles, Scouse, can you explain me your (and others here) obsession with youngsters? I mean I can understand if it is a local lad, but why are you more excited about Tex playing than say Couts or Lallana (if we are talking of locals Lallana is the most local of the three)? I really don't get this. Why does a youngster success is more meaningful than an established one? Unless you are the academy manager and see it as your personal success.

The problem with this obsession with young players is that it makes people create hype over young players that is nothing other than rediculous. At this stage of their career, Couts, even on his current form is better than Tex with his hand tied behind his back. Scoring two against Chelsea, ye right. Because against a weakend Bournamouth side he made two passes and had one back hill towards goal (that was cleared quite easily, and yes ok Clyne was there and scored, lucky us) . Now I admit I don't rate him. You think I am harsh with him? You think he is a great player? Fine let him come from the bench first see him making an impact from there against the big teams in big games.

Iheanacho came from the bench several times for city this season. This week he scored his second goal against Palace midweek and he also had two assists (all as a substitute in two games) . By the way, he may not be even on the bench on the weekend even though Aguero is injured but even if yes he will defo not start.

For me there is only one creteria who should play, have your best 11 on the pitch on every game. If you have a player in his late 30s who is even one percent more likely to score, he should be on the pitch and not someone else jsut because he is younger (in other words maybe we should call back Kuyt back, he doesn't stops scoring this season including two hatricks. )

30 Oct 2015 10:50:45
Fano, So pick your best " fav" 11 over form? So what incentive have the " none" best 11 got? I've no fixation with youth. I'm fixated with us winning. Doesn't bother me if the player is free or cost £60 million as long as he is good enough. Couts been playing like the world on his shoulders looks jaded. Yet firmino looked on blob last couple of games you can see him getting better whilst couts in my opinion going backwards. It's not about Texiera It's about would you play him and yes I would. He's got something to prove so let him. BR picked his faves every week where did that get him?

30 Oct 2015 12:53:08
Fanobip where is my obsession with youth all I was saying is regardless of age, name, or experience if a player is ready he should play, letc not put words in people's mouths turkish? Excited agen where did tht come from? Let's not get silly here klopp will pick the team tomorrow and will pick who he wants, and I will support them who Eva plays. Agen Al spell it out for you regardless of age name or experience if a player is ready to play then he should regardless of who we are playing. Instead of rambling on, let's stick to what was said and not try puts words or assume there is sum kid of obsession.

30 Oct 2015 12:58:48
An ag is the game tomorrow really high stakes pal? Don't get me wrong if lallana is the better player then rightly so he will play mate. All a was enthicizing was if your ready then your ready. All in all let's hope we play well and hopefully nick the 3 points.

30 Oct 2015 13:24:40
A stopped reading the fanobip but maybe a should of carried on as you controdict yourself by saying we should play older players. then saying we should bring kuyt back Why would you want kuyt back? cause he is free scoring in a league he was before he joined us? . Unless your been serious?, how many other reds would want kuyt back, he can it handle our league come on lad we do have better in youth than our dirk.