31 Oct 2022 16:22:29
Hello ed1 hope u well? tough times for us reds at minute. u mention about us changing playing style, what is it exactly where trying to do because I have no idea what we at!

{Ed001's Note - we are trying to save the players' legs by not going full pelt, but it would be better to save the legs by getting the ball and keeping it.}

1.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 02:33:14
Weren't our intensity and fitness levels what made us so good and difficult to play against in the first place 3-4 years ago ed? Also what formation are we planning to go with in the long-term? We have had so many variations this season that I can't tell. I am trying to work out where will look to strengthen but I suppose it depends on how we will set ourselves out.

{Ed001's Note - I believe they were yes.

As I understand it, the plan is to be more flexible with formations to open up options.}

2.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 03:56:08
hey ed1! - just trying to catch up on all the chat and I see a few comments from posters and you about tactics and our Pep. You seem down on Pep and I wondered if that is based on inside info or just your observations?

Also if it something to do with evolving playing style, then I tend to agree with what you've said about our playing stock. End of the day the players need to match the way we set up to play. But I would be so interested if you have inside word on the direction the coaches are taking with tactics and how the players are responding to that.

{Ed001's Note - it is based on both. Pep was a very good coach but stepping up and putting his own ideas forward has shown that was his limit and he is not a tactician or leader. I know Klopp has to find ways to deal with the stress of his job by delegating as much as possible but it is important to delegate to the correct people and give them the right role.

The players did buy into it and were on board with the change, but confidence has been destroyed and it is only natural that they are going to be unsure about the new direction when performances have been so poor. When Guardiola took over the B team at Barca, at first results were not ideal but the performances made the players feel that it was working. We can't even point to performances as suggesting we are on the right track. Nothing looks right about it at all. Performances are good every time we revert to the high intensity game, such as against City. As soon as we go back to the new way, we are struggling. The players heads are dropping and it is clear Klopp feels under pressure and his head is dropping too. It is worrying.}

3.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 05:03:40
thanks ed1 - were you saying that it's Pep's idea to play this more measured approach? It would seem the antithesis of his playing identity. That's why I'm interested in the inner workings of that coaching group.

For me and my observations, I've not really considered that a change in identity has been part of the problem. I've felt it's been more a mix of an absence of emotion, energy and leadership particularly in those leaders who have been out of form (fab, VVD, etc) . Because I see the players at times are trying but are just that half yard too slow or too late. When we've played well, we've pressed well and created a lot more in-between the lines.

{Ed001's Note - Pep Lijnders yes. It is very similar to the way NEC Nijmegen fans say he had them playing in his time in charge there. I can't say I saw them under him to be sure though, so I am having to take their word for it.

The times we have played well are the games where we have set out to play the old way, with high-pressure, high-pressing and high-intensity. As soon as we revert to the new way, we are poor again. We have a huge squad, there is a break for the World Cup to come, there is absolutely no reason we couldn't have gone high-intensity for the first part of the season and then looked at where we were with injuries and fatigue during the World Cup. There is no reason to worry about tired legs at all in this first part.}

4.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 07:12:05
Pressing starts form the front and with mane (whose huge in regards to pressing) and Bobby gone, we couldn’t do that anymore. Our midfield is older than tower clock in England. There are no legs to do 90 minutes non stop pressing.
If the club wants to revert back to pressing 3 times a week then they need to bug two world class B2B players and play then either side of Fabinho.
We did not do that in the summer!

5.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 07:20:25
Ed1 - I’m glad you said we have a huge squad lol I been saying this for a couple years when arguing about squad depth haha. Well Back to playing style I do think that comes back to Klopp at end of the day to make a call. I still believe in this playing group and we’ll find a way to get our mojo back. Whether it means top 4, trophies or not, I think they is getting things right to sustain our competitiveness for the next 4-5 year run.

Also regards recruiting where do you sit in terms of accountability for buying midfielders last summer? I tend to think this one sits with Klopp for not moving on after missing out on thcouameni. Surely there was money there to go for him, so why not move for an alternative if we had identified there was a need?

{Ed001's Note - the squad is bloated which is part of the problem imo. Again another thing that goes against Edwards, he was unable to move them on and mainly because of the contracts he gave them. I have no idea why everyone worships at the Edwards' altar.

There was money available for a midfielder, it might have meant more loans from FSG, but the money would have been spent if the right players were available. Klopp was the one who decided against most of the options, though he did show interest in some who simply were not interested in joining us, such as Laimer.

Then he realised he did need one and wanted to take a punt, which FSG were not keen on. I can understand both sides in this. Klopp had thought he could make do and mend, but then realised it was not working so suddenly wanted to sign. FSG wanted to avoid signing players such as Keita, who was not given the full background research etc because Mane recommended him so highly. So FSG were not keen to take more punts like that.

Imo both of them were wrong and right. But Klopp should have been more ruthless and forced FSG's hand at the beginning of the window by getting Ox and Keita's contracts paid up and getting the club to release them to make space in the squad. He should have made a decision on the centre-backs and sold one of them to reduce the wage bill. By hanging on to players, he made it difficult financially for the club to just add another player and so increased the risk engendered in making another signing.

You can't just keep adding players to a squad. We don't have unlimited funds but even Citeh sell their fringe players to make room and keep the squad tight. We have too many being paid first team wages and not contributing fully. No team can continue that way, it unsettles the squad when you have players who are not pulling their weight. And players that can't get in the team are never happy and struggle to perform when they get a chance as they are not match sharp.}

6.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 07:27:08
Ed001, surely Klopp sees that Pep’s system isn’t working and we have to revert back to high intensity?

{Ed001's Note - it is difficult to see it that way when everyone has been telling you for years that the high intensity is the problem.}

7.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 08:30:56
Can I just say a HUGE thank you to all the Ed’s and Ed01 for the info they provide to us free of charge cos without them and all that they do, I would be such a low informed fan to the point of prolly believing everything the lazy journos write about us. Once again, huge thanks to you all.

Now in to the topic at hand, it seeks we have a whole host of issues and there is more than enuff blame to go around even to the “legendary” Edwards. I don’t blame the owners for not putting money up cos they got burned badly by Keita BUT like Ed said, Klopp should have made his case stronger to get him and Ox out. Either way, there is no silver bullet here. Maybe we may have to rip everything up and start afresh after the WC. Heaven help us.

{Ed001's Note - very welcome.}

8.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 08:59:13
Ed001, I feel exactly the same, there should have been more ruthlessness shown.

9.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 09:16:27
This is an enlightening and interesting thread.
No mention of last season's efforts and the strain that could/ did put on the batteries of the players, which (imo) must be one of many contributing factors.

Klopp's loyalty is a double edged sword for reason's mentioned above, yet perhaps this season's experiences will encourage him to create the space that Ed mentioned above.

Ed's do you see much chance of LFC spending during the winter break, and if not, could this be a transitional season where some younger players are given opportunities to develop through first team experience?

With Naby, Milner, Adrian, Ox and maybe Gomez set to be moved on, some space will be created, yet in the mean time how does Jurgen make this off season help build foundations for the next?

{Ed002's Note - I would hope that Liverpool do not spend for the sake of it. They should stick to their targets but will know it can be difficult to buy in January.}

10.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 09:29:37
@Oli

So FSG are upset of a signing they mad some 6 years ago but had no problem spanking £70 mill on a striker who couldn’t control a ball in day light. Imagine my shock.
Klopp is your jackpot and if he wants a signing on the last day of the window, so be it and get him one without him this club won’t move an inch.
Agree on Edwards, he is a clown and so is his successor. That’s what happen when you don’t have a DOF at the top.

11.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 09:24:09
Thanks Ed. Do you see the capitulation in the CL final as due to mental/ physical fatigue, bad tactics and a stubbornness on Klopp's part or something else?
How things petered out at the end of last season was demoralising, especially Vs Real.
I wonder how deflating that was for the players.

{Ed001's Note - I think the tactics failed badly. Physically and mentally I think we had something left that we never used.}

12.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 10:28:52
Arya, I don’t know what your post even means but I’ll try to dissect it. First off, we had a DOF named Michael Edwards who has been replaced by Julian Ward, his former deputy.

And Yes, I think FSG are right to be wary cos Klopp fought hard to convince the hierarchy to sign Naby to the point of tapping him up like he did VVD which is of course illegal. Can one blame Klopp for wanting him? No cos he was a stud at Leipzig cos I watched him a ton before he arrived. It didn’t work mainly due to Naby’s own making. It happens. We’re not City who can buy expensively and if it doesn’t work just buy his replacement the next season. That’s a fact.

We couldn’t get rid of him cos if the crazy wages he us on so he’s still here. As for buying Darwin instead of a mid, that’s not true. Klopp was provided funds to get both Darwin (Klopp’s no. one Target) AND Tchouameni (the first choice midfielder he wanted) . It was NOT an either/ or situation. Ed01 confirmed that.

If Klopp decided against it when Tchouameni went to Madrid and after alternatives like Bellingham and Laimer were not available, how’s that FSG’s fault? The money was there still, right? Did I miss anything? Cheers, mate.

13.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 10:47:44
Two things,
To the poster who said pressing starts form the front, I agree but Bobby not being there doesn’t make a difference nunez is all over the pitch been defending all over it too I think no?

2. What’s your opinion on FSG ed001? I know it’s easy for fans to call out FSG for ‘not spending’ but I think the problem isn’t that, more the FFP system we have in place just isn’t fit for purpose. The money in the game has been insane for a long time now but seems to be getting more and more obscene?

{Ed001's Note - FSG have been trying to bring in investment to allow them to spend more, they are building strategic partnerships and increasing revenue by increasing capacity. They have invested money. I know people think we should spend like Man City but it is simply not possible now. Like you said, FFP makes it difficult.

There is a reason I keep mentioning the wage bill, that is a huge obstacle to spending money. It keeps us tight on FFP regs as there is so much going out. It is things like that which cause our problems.

We are moving forward, income is increasing, which gives us more to spend in future. FSG are not perfect, but at least they are moving the club forward. At least they back down when the fans disprove of things they get wrong. I am not sure we will find someone better very easily, if at all.}

14.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 11:15:04
THat's quite fascinating ed1. I love Klopp but I do think too much bad blood has been afforded to FSG when it comes to transfers. You mentioned both Klopp and FSG have been right and wrong with the transfer approach over summer but then didn't touch on FSG's right/ wrongs. What were your thoughts there?

Otherwise I completely agree with your breakdown of the squad, Edwards over-credited for the good that dismissed the long-term impacts of his downfalls, and also how Klopp could have managed the renovations of the squad better. If I am FSG, I am 100% looking at the millions of dollars worth of players occupying the rehab center every day of the last 2 - 3 seasons as evidence Klopp making ill-advised moves in the market.

{Ed001's Note - I think FSG should have given Klopp less freedom and made him move out some fringe players. They should have been pushing Klopp to improve the team and clear the wage bill. Unfortunately Klopp's success has made it nigh-on impossible for them to challenge him, even when he is in the wrong.

As for what they did right, they held off signing just any midfielder out of desperation. The club simply can't afford to bring in more and more players with a squad so large. Don't we have something like 28 in the first team squad if I remember correctly.}

15.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 11:18:04
Brilliant thread. Very enlightening and informative. I would hope that the club is starting to realize what the Eds are seeing.

16.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 11:35:18
stone - I think the club are realizing it. that's why we didn't panic buy hahahaha but there is a bit of a double edged sword in working with Klopp as Ed has laid out in the last couple replies. For me I think we take it, because the alternative is a power struggle between manager and owners and we chop and change every few years. and I'd rather have the stability and steady growth that we have.

17.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 11:40:27
ed1 - appreciate the chat. We have and have had a massive squad. I've never understood the "FSG don't invest" point tbh, and actually think it's a mindless point to make. It's not FSG's role to pick and choose who we buy and sell, so I can't see how the players brought in whom bloat the squad size and wage bill are FSG's fault.

Overall, and despite the current results, I think we have plenty in the squad to keep building with. But perhaps priority should be put on identifying and securing the fresh blood in midfield who can come in and take away some pressure from Hendo and Fab to drive the team. Whether that happens in Jan or in the next summer to me is ok, as getting that decision right will be better for the next 5 years not just the next 5 months.

{Ed001's Note - that is exactly right. Sometimes you have to take a short-term hit for a long-term gain.}

18.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 12:46:32
There is some irony in us not wanting to just sign anyone throughout the window and then signing a player in desperation in the last throws of the window who is probably worse than a “just sign anyone” type signing on loan. A lot is made of us being interested In Tchouameni but if we never actually made an offer for him to Monaco, then our interest in him is no more tangible than my interest in knocking boots with Jennifer Aniston. I’d hope if we were going to bring someone in the work had already been done so that we weren’t scrambling around at the end. I’d also hope that all further contract renewal discussions had ended with Keita and none were planned with ox as they’re not the long term future of the club and haven’t been able to offer anything on the pitch.

{Ed001's Note - it is hardly irony. It is just a case of trying before buying as the normal research wasn't able to be done on him. As for it not being tangible, there is no point making a bid for someone who has told you that he is going to Madrid. Just like we didn't bid for either Laimer or Bellingham bit the interest is tangible, they just said no. It is not like you and Aniston. It is more like you and every woman that knocks you back on a night out when you speak to them.}

19.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 13:25:39
Do u think we will buy in Jan ed 1? I think we will myself, champ league qualification is 50/ 50 at the v best at min. 1 signing can do wonders sometimes, like diaz last jan gave us great lift for rest of season.1 good signing won't be enough to cure all our problems but it might be enough to get u top 4.

{Ed001's Note - it is not that simple, what if there is no one to buy? There is no way of knowing what will happen after the World Cup, it is such an unknown quantity it might cause mass movement in the market or kill it dead.}

20.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 13:58:37
This is a great read. One of the best threads going I’d say.

21.) 01 Nov 2022
01 Nov 2022 19:47:52
Absolute boss thread this one. Ed01 is spitting some serious knowledge on here and i am enjoying all the input from ALL the posters on here. So much to learn and so many takeaways. I thank Ed01 and ALL the posters for participating. This is why I LOVE this forum. I literally would be an ignorant fan howling at the moon and living in misery supporting my club without it. YNWA!

22.) 02 Nov 2022
02 Nov 2022 12:32:42
So the money was there for Bellingham and Tchoumeni so it should be there for Bellingham and Rice next window/ summer? Then add in the seasons revenue / sponsor money etc we should be able to bring in a top forward too? Do you know if Rice would be interested in us?

{Ed001's Note - I doubt Rice would want the move, he wants to stay in London. However, you never know, it is possible he could be convinced if Chelsea show no interest.}