15 Sep 2016 22:08:23
Evening MK scouser, I've just watched (on catch up) the panorama programme that was on a few nights ago I think, about gambling addiction. Remembering our slight disagreement from a few months ago, I would urge you to watch it if you've got time mate, it may give you a more balanced insight into the problem. If you do watch it, let me know what you think fella.

1.) 15 Sep 2016
15 Sep 2016 22:31:17
I'm open minded buddy. If I see it I'll give it a watch, and let you know!

Sadly I may struggle as i have moved into my own place and i now only have free view TV and 4G data haha. It's awful, I have to actually live in the real world! There is someone living with me as well who claims I knocked them up back when my mind was poisoned by Satellite TV and unlimited broadband! It's a bit unusual. It talks to me. Like not by messenger or text. Like actually talks; for real!

My generation don't cope well with no digital contact and communication.

2.) 15 Sep 2016
15 Sep 2016 23:49:25
it is known what can gambling do to a life not only to one but to destroy whole families, but i think you guys are missing a point. lots of clubs have betting houses as their sponsors, times move. it was a good buissnes offer for us so why not. society should be working on that problem not Liverpool f. c. don't get me wrong I would rather our club is sponsored by other companies but if the offer was good we should grab it. Anyway good post, read your conversation weeks back. Glad you mentioned that again waro.

3.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 00:38:01
Cannot agree with you, Mandzo. How would you feel if Benson and Hedges put in a good offer? Or, god forbid, The S*n?
Money and 'good business' shouldn't supercede morals and ethics. The issue of betting agencies and gambling in sport is debatable but we should be evaluating any negative impact rather just grab a good offer.

4.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 04:00:43
@Mandzo - It is morally bankrupt for the club to agree to any sponsorship deal involving betting companies. You say it is not a problem for LFC to deal with but surely, by welcoming a betting company as a sponsor, the club is adding to the problem? The club did not need to make such a deal, it chose to do so without any forethought of the potential consequences. Gambling ruins lives, plain and simple, and the club, as ambassadors of the community and a beacon so whom many look up to, has a responsibility to the fans - welcoming a betting company is not upholding that responsibility in my opinion.

5.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 07:12:04
Our longest running sponsor is carlsberg. I'm assuming you're all up in arms about that as alcohol ruins loads more lives than gambling?

6.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 07:31:26
Clubs act within the law, I'm not really sure they are interested in the ethicality of it.
But I would question the judgment of someone who acquired a gambling addiction because we had a certain sponsor. As pointed out, Carlsberg was our sponsor for years, how is it really different?

7.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 07:32:19
Both gambling and alcohol ruin many lives a year as they are extremely addictive but I would argue that a person who's going to gamble will gamble anyway, whether the club has the betting company's logo on their shirt or not. Betting can only be done 18 plus anyway and these people will be past the stage of getting influenced by what's on their favourite football team's shirts. I can see your reasoning Waro, you would feel the club shouldn't be giving promotion to such a destructive behaviour but with the influx of bookies in England in the decade or so, you can't go more than 10 minutes without seeing one. So I doubt the club having a betting company's logo on their shirt will have more effect than seeing a bookies on the road, or have added much or at all to the statistic of people with a gambling addiction.

8.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 09:11:16
I would prefer it if betting and alcohol companies didn't sponsor football clubs, particularly my club! But I agree with a previous poster in respect that the those who chose to gamble will do so anyway.
In my opinion I think the companies chose to sponsor a club in order to persuade there audience to use them instead of the thousands of competitors. Rather than aim to attract new customers. I think people decide to gamble then choose a bookie, rather than seeing a bookie and decide to take up gambling.
There is also the question as to where the line is drawn as fast food, fizzy drinks etc have a negative impacts on the lives of many when taken to excess.
So I'm almost on the fence on this issue. As a father I'd rather see those darn golden arches banned rather than a bookie. but as the years go by. that may flip about!
However, being morally responsible is an admirable quality and I respect those of you who have taken a stance against it.

9.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 09:47:38
OK MK, no problem mate. Hopefully you can catch it because it's content has a bit of science behind it showing the effects on the brain during a gambling session and how addictive it can be. Cheers for the contribution of all who replied, I realise it's a divisive subject, some think it's easy, just don't go into the bookies or on your mobile but I'd say it's just as difficult for some people to do as saying to an alcoholic to just not go into a pub or off licence.

The buzz from winning is like nothing else and the losing can be severely depressing, but what some people don't realise is to some people gambling is just for the buzz and they sub consciously don't care if they win or lose in the end it's just how much of a buzz they get from a gambling session.

10.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 10:12:40
Sorry Magician i find your argument a bit redundant. May as well bring back cigarette advertising if people are going to do it anyway. there's plenty of research that suggests the subliminal influence of advertising and i'm not sure it would do a recovering gambler much good to have reminders of bookies everytime he watched the footy.

11.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 10:29:12
This is such a silly post, so are we going to prevent Dunkin Doughnuts, Lucozade, McDonalds, etc, etc from sponsoring our club because they promote a brand that has the potential to cause obesity? Do you want the club to become ultra PC and only be sponsored by ultra ethical brands!

Yes the club have a moral duty to be ethical, and yes gambling addiction has ruined many families and lives, but how far do you go with it? Do you want it to be detrimental to the finances of the club?

12.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 10:33:26
Anything you can get out the bookies I say take it. Not too often they payout.

13.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 10:48:36
My point is that in comparison to things like TV advertisement, online advertisement and proximity and amount of bookies, a logo of a betting company on a football team's jersey will have nominal effect, people are there to watch the players not stare at the shirts. There are bigger fish to fry than shirt advertisement, such as the aforementioned ones. I'm sure if we were to do a study the majority of betting addicts would point to the TV, or just simply walking in rather than a logo on their favourite team's shirt for getting them started on this destructive behaviour.

14.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 11:02:10
Don't know much about gambling but know plenty about alcoholism and don't really have a problem with shirt sponsoring for either as that isn't the problem. We both it isn't that either are inherently bad things it is to do with he people who suffer from it. It isn't the gambling or the drinking it is that the people who suffer struggle with not doing it to excess. For lack of a better term 'normal' people can do it in a controlled manner, eg bet a fiver when they go to a game or a few pints with a mate. Someone with addiction will bet all their wages or drink till they black out, regardless of the consequences of either bankruptcy or a detriment to their health.

But big issue is with the adverts for betting during a match. With drink it isn't seeing carlsberg on an lfc shirt that triggers temptation (partly because when drinking didn't care for name brands or beer, was more tescos own vodka) it was things that cause euphoric recall or gave an excuse to drink. Which is why I think the adverts showing odds are wrong, showing an advert tempting you to bet on Liverpool to make a comeback after losing a first half to me is the same as showing an advert to drink to take stress away of watching your team lose.

So don't see seeing sponsors on a shirt as a necessarily bad thing, as people in addiction know this stuff exists. It is more adverts glamorising it or providing temptation that's a problem.

15.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 11:20:41
I can't really understand how anyone could disagree with waro on this, I'm only 19 yet I've already been through a heavy gambling addiction and I think that's another part to the problem, it's becoming a lot more common in young lads who just get easily influenced by it.

I'll give you a run through of how it started with me and maybe a couple might understand, so I turn 18 I'm buzzing obviously I can now legally drink alcohol, buy tobacco and gamble, so what's the first thing I do, I go to the shop grab a crate of Stella a pouch of gold leaf and get ready to have a drink and watch the football, up pops an ad for gambling - about the 50th gambling ad in that 5 minute segment- so obviously realising I can now crack on and place a bet if I want, I jump on the computer make an account and place a £10 bet, I won it picked up a nice £30 and thought decent I'm up £20 which I just leave in the betting account for now, fast forward a couple days later up pops a promotion in my emails, telling me that because I'm a new customer (customer always makes me laugh, what they really mean is now I've allowed myself to be their next mark in their hustle) I can have up to £20 to spend for free on any selected casino game, so again sounds decent let's give it a shot, £20 on 1st twelve (roulette) oh balls I lost, oh I've got £30 in the account though so obviously I decide to use that I lose, by this point I'm thinking rubbish that's £30 and I become greedy and want it back and deposit more (biggest mistake of my life) before I knew it that was the months pay check gone, comes to next month and even a week before my pay day I'm already looking at what game I can play and how to maximise my odds of winning (which you quite simply can't do) so my money comes in and before I know it it's gone, eventually my partner started asking me questions as to where my money goes and why it's her paying for our pub lunch all the time, and through sheer embarrassment I lie and say I leant it to some one, who was paying me back go again to the next pay check and I now have to find a way to come up with the money that I said I was getting paid back so I end up back at it and trying to win it back. At this point I'm in an endless cycle and I'm screwed.

Luckily I escaped it all in the end by coming clean to everyone and they helped me get through it, that's not to say it's escaped me though as I'm left owing over £1000 to loan companies that I borrowed from to fund the addiction after all my money had gone, but I was so close to losing my partner, my dad was ready to chuck me out as I was still living with him at the time and basically my life was nearly torn apart by it (I know it was my own actions that caused it) so after telling you the long winded story, which if anything was nice to get off my chest, I'll get to my point, it started with me being a giddy 18 year old placing a little football bet after seeing an advertisement and ended with me nearly losing everything that mattered to me.

Sorry for the long post and to anyone who reads it I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

16.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 12:12:42
Paradise, I'm sorry to hear about that and glad you're back on track. Your post shows the dangers of gambling but also reinforces the point that TV gambling Ads are a far worse problem than a logo on a shirt. That is a far more effective battle to fight as I believe that it is thee main cause of gambling addictions developing. Logo's on a team's jersey have a nominal effect on people gambling. The issue would be convincing the likes of the morally bankrupt Rupert Murdoch to take the betting ads off his channels. I feel us getting £20m (not too sure on the amount suggested) to stick a companies' name on your jersey is broad daylight robbery, helps the club and has minimal effect on people buying or simply researching the company. Betting adverts on the LFC TV channel would be a completely different story however.

17.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 12:24:29
Sorry to hear that paradise but glad you've come out of the otherwise and hopefully a wiser person mate, unfortunately there are some who don't have a support network such as yours and they stuck in the cycle that you've mentioned, but I take my hat off to you, well done kid keep it up. Don't bother yourself about the disagrees to my post pc it's the name at the bottom not the content!

Scarface, why was it a silly post? I asked a fellow poster a question about a subject we had discussed a few months earlier, a subject he didn't really know a lot about so the panorama programme may have opened his eyes to the subject in question, nice to see what a selfless and sympathetic person you are, you must be a rock to your friends and family.

18.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 12:39:28
Interesting thread this one. My own conclusion. Surround yourself with people you trust and be honest. It's inevitable someone you know will be affected one way or another by some form of addiction. I don't think advertising necessary is the root cause but it sure doesn't help prevent it.

19.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 14:13:17
So is advertising for gambling sites as innocuous as promoting McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts or as sinister and detrimental as cigarette advertising? I guess it all depends on how much you believe advertising affects the psyche of the viewing public. I once bought a Hitachi sound system because the team were sponsored by them but i also accept that not every supporter is as gullible as I was.

20.) 16 Sep 2016
16 Sep 2016 14:20:53
Did anyone know LFC has their own official 'coconut water partner'?
Ridiculous what the game has been reduced to by businessmen and the filthy lucre.