Liverpool Banter Archive August 28 2015

28 Aug 2015 20:29:05
Eds I just read on NBC sports that balotelli has clauses in his new contract that if broken, will terminate his loan deal. And they seem a bit incredible to me.

Limits on haircuts
No smoking.
Alcohol is limited.
Social media posts limited
Missing training.

Stuff like that. Is that really true? I feel silly asking as it seems like only Mario could make such clauses believeable.

{Ed002's Note - Cool stuff.}

28 Aug 2015 22:43:17
I'm assuming that's your way of saying ignore it lol

29 Aug 2015 01:29:43
No mention of fireworks. silly AC Milan!

29 Aug 2015 07:14:40
If that's true then expect to see him on the bench against west ham.

28 Aug 2015 17:27:37
Can in Germany squad.

Great things ahead for the lad, no doubt.

28 Aug 2015 21:59:25
Let's not get carried away just yet. 2 bad games in a row and this place would off about how over rated he is.

29 Aug 2015 01:52:34
Great for his confidence. If Leow sees something in him then ghe moaners who were trashing him here early on or calling him overrated can do one. Germany don't pick you if you're overrated or if you suck.

29 Aug 2015 09:38:40
Ziege

29 Aug 2015 23:48:14
Zeigehad a great career and won trophies with Bayern, played and won the Euros in 1996 beating England in the Semis as well as played in the 2002 WC final if I'm not mistaken so again Ron, your mentioning him as a poor player makes no sense as many of your posts don't

28 Aug 2015 17:22:26
Hi Eds ....................

{Ed002's Note - They borrow from both. I am not going to get in to any discussions about money with you.}

29 Aug 2015 01:28:50
No that's okay, that is all I really needed to know.

Just one more thing though, ed001 once mentioned a website that dedicates itself to football finances, but I've forgotten the name. Can you please tell me?

{Ed001's Note - it is a blog by SwissRamble, you can find him on twitter or blogspot (I think) but searching his name online will bring his blog up. Excellent well researched stuff, but not a quick read. I highly recommend reading it when you get the chance.}

29 Aug 2015 01:29:18
Never mind, I found it.

28 Aug 2015 17:08:39
Is it me or does Brendan Rodgers come across more cagey/serious/not happy in his interviews he has done this season.

28 Aug 2015 17:37:59
I've noticed that. I would imagine the owners have reigned him in a bit. He made himself look a bit silly at times. The real test will be after our first "big" win. If there's talk of title challenges, we'll know he's reverted to type. I am pleasantly surprised by his pragmatism this season. O Driscoll influence perhaps.

28 Aug 2015 21:35:42
I think it's just the owners or Gordon telling him to keep it shut rather than the effect of o driscoll

29 Aug 2015 01:57:48
That must be part if ghe new rules under which he now has to work. For three yrs they have warned him to keep his trap in check and he did nothing to change so now, the owners have stepped to muzzle him and long may it continue

28 Aug 2015 15:37:57
I don't know how most people feel about Europa League. I feel we should really try to win it.

I know it is pretty arduous but I really feel under BR and with this team we have no Europe experience, last season even when we qualified champions league we were horrible for a club of our pedigree.

I think that Europa is a perfect platform. Also winners qualify for Champions League, that's a big bonus.

Of course I am not saying that the league should not be prioritised but I think our squad is really sufficient to handle this.

I think it has more to do with mentality of the Manager and team rather than any physical strain.

So to sum up, qualifying champions league is must from a financial point of view but its not much use if we don't go past group stage!!

Eds and Reds your views pls.

28 Aug 2015 16:17:43
Said from day one, go out to win it. It's the 2nd biggest euro comp and well respected everywhere outside the UK.

We will not with the EPL this year, but this Europa could help put us back into a good place for everything. Confidence, attracting players, belief, marketing, sponsors, cash etc

Anyone is only marked on current performance, we have one of the best histories, we need to start making the best of the present.

28 Aug 2015 16:20:54
We were hopeless in CL and europa last season, br had no European experience and it showed big time.

28 Aug 2015 17:09:10
Winning the EL could bring over £40m, £22-25m prize money and around £15-18m matchday revenue, (Ed2 any chance you could back up my sums?) plus qualifies us for the CL so definitely worth going for. Also gives a trophy.

We're the richest club in the competition which should put us amongst the favourites. We've got a squad that should be able to manage the extra games. Let's go for it.

{Ed002's Note - I have no idea where you get this "richest club" thing from, Liverpool has massive debt.

You are also adrift with the prize money a bit.}

28 Aug 2015 17:31:53
It's worth winning now you can qualify for the big time via coming 1st

28 Aug 2015 17:44:19
Pommy

We were rubbish in the league as well.

Rodgers is rubbish in general lol

28 Aug 2015 19:24:02
We should aim to do well. Go out to win. In the past, fans have been disdainful towards Europa League, and that may well have transferred over to the players and the coach. The chastening experience of the CL last season should be reason enough to take this competition seriously, and win a trophy.

28 Aug 2015 18:23:52
Ed 2, maybe most valuable club with the highest turnover would be more accurate, I expect highest wage bill too.

Had another look at the finances, my prize money was too much but I can't see how to accurately work out the market share thing. The winners may get as much as €9m which would mean around €24m overall (£17m) so still a good wack.

{Ed002's Note - You need to understand that whilst the money is a decent addition , getting to the quarters is critical.}

28 Aug 2015 20:28:27
We should go out to win every game. All this tactical selection is nonsense IMO. Players will need resting, that's a given, but beyond that we should be looking to win every game.
Winning is a habit, it breeds confidence.

28 Aug 2015 23:36:43
What happens after the quarters? significantly more money or an expectation for Rodgers set by the club?

{Ed002's Note - The money ramps up.}

28 Aug 2015 12:49:21
Group B Sion, Liverpool, Rubin Kazan and Bordeaux.

28 Aug 2015 13:13:05
Good group for us I think. Although I'm not sure how the trip to the far east of Russia will do us any favours, but still.

Unless they are still playing the European games at a different stadium?

28 Aug 2015 13:20:21
I think that BR had previously indicated that Liverpool may play a pretty much 'B' team for these games.
Despite our poor UEFA rankings, why not though ?
Horrible format for this tournament, it should revert to a straight knock-out, for me.

28 Aug 2015 12:18:39
So what do you guys think of Pot 1 in the Europa league draw?

Schalke, Dortmund, Basel, Napoli, Spurs, Ajax, Villarreal, Rubin Kazan, Bilbao, Sporting Lisbon, Marseille, Dnipro.

I don't think any of those teams are unbeatable and I think it's very possible we'll finish top of our group, no matter who we get from that pot. This is also assuming we continue to pick up form.

28 Aug 2015 13:40:18
We need to sack this competition off or at least play our reserve squad and utility players.

28 Aug 2015 11:06:19
Good luck to Markovic I say!

He's never had a regular run in his best position and he doesn't look like he's going to.

He needs to get his confidence up. He played with a swagger and a confidence about him at Benfica and he's lost that, partly due I think to being played out of position and partly because I think he wasn't ready for the Prem yet (As Chelsea and Ed002 both said)

It was a ridiculous transfer and could well be money wasted if he isn't given an opportunity to improve, which he is not going to get under Rodgers.

And for those saying that the Turkish league is wrong for him, yes I agree a move to a Prem team (Stoke would have been my choice) would have been best, but no one wanted hi.

And as for the Turkish league it is intense out there, and it's competitive and quite often combative. He will need to bulk up or get smarter to be a success and either of those will be good for Liverpool, either to play him or to sell him.

A foolish transfer in the first place but I think this is a good way to try and rectify something from the situation so we don't end up with another expensive flop being sold for an 80% loss after paying him loads of wages for no game time.

Cheers all and Eds especially, have a good day!

28 Aug 2015 13:08:04
The press release around his loan makes it clear he's expected to return to the squad next season.

28 Aug 2015 13:46:01
The administration of Liverpool's football affairs is nothing short of chaotic and ignorant.

This will continue as it has done since 2012.

28 Aug 2015 10:46:55
Eds, I see Sunderland have signed Toivonen. If I am not mistaken, I remember we were linked with him a few years back and everyone was raving about how we had to sign him. Did he ever live up to the hype?

{Ed002's Note - Try the Sunderland page.}

28 Aug 2015 12:02:35
Toivonen "rejected" the chance to play for LFC if I remember correct. Someone should ask him how he has been.

28 Aug 2015 12:03:00
well its self answered since Sunderland signed him

28 Aug 2015 15:15:13
He was a Hodgson target so work that out

29 Aug 2015 02:18:17
He' been poor at Rennes and we signed Suarez that window so no harm done there

28 Aug 2015 10:14:16
Any truth in Tottenham having interest in Borini or is it a closed deal that he is off to Inter?

{Ed002's Note - Neither.}

28 Aug 2015 09:45:37
hey lfc fans.

i just want to add one more thing about the markovic loan deal.

lallana
ibe
seem to be the only two who can play out wide.
with coutinho/firmino. who can play there but will come inside etc etc

carling, fa europa. +any injuries =plenty and plenty of games for markovic to play either left or right!
so why the hell would u loan him. u can see already lallana is injured.

defence, midfield. and striking options and. the number 10 area are very good

i can't say that for out wide

so coutinho and firmino are going to play every game hm. any wide youngsters out there guys
i only know teixera and rossiter an ibe. making the step up

28 Aug 2015 10:09:10
I think Moreno could do it if asked. Plus Milner

28 Aug 2015 10:19:42
Youre talking to us like we have all personally loaned him out? I'm hoping he has regular games and gets his value up because we need to sell players desperately still.

28 Aug 2015 10:21:21
Stuie is right Milner can play there and Moreno did ok when he came on as sub. We also have some youth players too who could possibly see a chance eg Dunn and Kent who are both named in the first team squad.

28 Aug 2015 10:36:31
Red

We need to sell playes who wouldn't fit in our plans not players you don't fancy.

28 Aug 2015 08:38:21
It seems we are trying to sell players without taking a loss but failing, and we are buying well over the odds all resulting in the mess we are in. Would a)selling players, even at a loss, b) achieving champions league football next season and c) selling the naming rights be enough? I am asking this because the club seems to have no idea on how to handle the finances

{Ed002's Note - It is not as simple as that Steph.}

28 Aug 2015 09:30:52
If only it was. Do you see a way out of the money pit?

{Ed002's Note - Of course.}

28 Aug 2015 10:09:25
The way out will include using more academy players and not signing as many players each season, with a plan for where each player is to fit into the team/squad done too.

28 Aug 2015 12:47:29
Take the credit card off Brenda for starters

28 Aug 2015 08:16:58
I feel that the whole Markovic debacle is a complete shambles. We shouldn't of brought him last year as there wasn't a need for him, hence why he was played out of position. Because of that he struggled to adapt. Getting used to the PL style and English culture would be hard enough without learning a new position. As ed002 said we need to try and balance the books because of our awful purchasing methods. But it will be difficult as we over pay for players, play some out of position thus not allowing the player to show there true worth. We then try sell them but we can't recoup the cash so we loan them. A cycle we need to get out of quickly as its having regularly and started with aqualani. But one last point in Markovic, the lad needs regular game time not 90 mins every couple of weeks or 20 minute cameos. Loan may be frustrating with the original outlay but it's the right call.

28 Aug 2015 08:28:46
Y do you think the club don't need a winger?. Utter rubbish. We lack a genuine winger on the flanks to an extent our manager and fans are now demanding Moreno to play there.

He was played out of position becoz BR had no clue how to use him. He played sterling out of position.

He is a very intellegent footballer. He has pace and his goals shows composure in finishing.

28 Aug 2015 08:36:41
Before he came to LFC I was extremely excited about the Markovic signing.
I did however feel he is better used through the middle (tip of the diamond) and he was never going to play there with the players we already had on the books.

Feel he is a real talent, just badly mis-used which, for the club is a real shame, for the player and complete injustice

28 Aug 2015 11:38:10
I think next season I'd rather markovic in the squad than lallana (even though I like lallana) because markovic offers more pace in the attack and should improve a lot. But this season a bit of regular football will help

28 Aug 2015 11:40:16
You do have to wonder about BR, who buys a player for 20 million, barely plays and when he does he plays him out of position then loans him out.
This is not an academy player, he payed 20 Million for the guy, WOW.

28 Aug 2015 11:55:25
EG, i like the player, and have nothing against him. However with what we have currently, firmino, couts, Ibe, lallana (I don't think he should be ahead of Markovic but he is) and Sturridge to come back he isn't going to get the consistent run of games he needs for his development under BR. I would love to keep the player for the cameos but keeping him here would halt him further.

As I said before this all comes down to our shocking planning as a club, we should be understanding what the team needs then purchasing a player. Rather than splashing the cash then fitting them into the team where possible.

28 Aug 2015 13:47:04
The players you mentioned are names who are picked ahead of him. one is a striker, one an ACM, Ibe has been utter poor in the first 3 games. Countinho plays in the middle.

28 Aug 2015 07:03:48
Markovic looked hungrier than ibe and worked harder even as right back.

In last few games ibe looked like, he is not interested in playing football. Hopefully ibe works harder and cement his position.

28 Aug 2015 08:02:48
I think he trying to hard to get on the scores hey rather than playing his natural game. He is a very hardworking player

28 Aug 2015 08:15:53
Well Markovic has a fantastic atttitude unlike others who would have either opened up of playing out side their position on TV or handing a TR.

28 Aug 2015 10:07:22
Are you really questioning ibes attitude??!!! Oh my god.

28 Aug 2015 12:07:12
Ridiculous. Ibe forwent the chance of a summer break like almost every other including your best buddy Markovic, to stay back and train at Melwood. He looks under pressure and perhaps needs to be taken out of the team and put back gradually.

I understand people are disappointed that Markovic is being loaned out, but why they need to put another player down to make their point, that too an erroneous and poorly constructed one.

28 Aug 2015 13:01:07
Is that the same Jordan ibe that spent his summer holidays training!?

28 Aug 2015 00:46:03
Quick one for ed2 as you always seem to be the most clued up on here about this topic.
I'm wondering about the prospect of Liverpool being in financial difficulty in the near future. There have been subtle hints and references at this from this site recently but iv always been a bit confused by it all. I understand lfc have splashed out a lot over the last 2 years, but I'd always assumed that with big sales like Suarez and Sterling, the trimming of the wage bill that everyone at the club seems so happy about, Ian Ayre making sponsorship and partnership deals left right and centre, the massive new TV deal, our return, albeit short,to CL, increasing commercial revenues plus the fact that surely, FSG know their way around the business and finance world, they must be sensible enough to know whether or not they can cope with the expenditure and not put the club in trouble. At least, I would hope this would be common sense???
Any knowledge, details would be greatly appreciated! Thanks as always!

{Ed002's Note - I have explained on many occasions that Liverpool has been not been well run financially since the owners arrived. Have you forgotten that they lost £1M per week for the first three years of ownership? The club has very significant debt. The club is building new debt with the stadium whilst they continue to attempt to sell the naming rights to help pay for it. The "new" television money doesn't arrive until 2017 but the club will already be borrowing against it. On transfer fees alone the club spent three additional years worth of FFP owner contribution allowance last season alone - and then you have to add the additional transfer costs (signing on fees, third party payments, registration fees, agent fees etc.). The club has tried very hard to sell players this summer but have priced them out of moves - as agents have explained to the club and I have explained here. This summer has been a real mess with the club now trying to get the wages off the books. Again they have over paid for players this summer (the €41M rising potentially to €50M for Firmino is laughable). The Liverpool Echo (which seems to have even less grasp of the finances than most of the Liverpool fans) has said that the club have gotten £49M for Sterling - they haven't. Of the £44M fee (potentially rising to £49M), Sterling gets £2.2M rising to a little less than £2.5M, QPR get £8.8M rising to money £9.8M - so Liverpool before other expenses get £33M (potentially rising to £36.7M). It won't have covered the costs of Benteke even after the rise if you start looking at the other costs. People forget the costs of Ings which will be not insignificant. The signing on fee for Milner is not insignificant. Liverpool have spent vast amounts of money on agent at third party fees in recent years. It adds up. Commercially they are doing well and increasing income - but they need to sell. They need to be better at this than they are. They need to stop over paying for players - Markovic is another example. He wasn't ready. He is now nowt ready and they cannot sell him at anything like the asking price. I am not even going to tell you what the club paid in additional and agent fees for Balotelli, nor what they were asking to sell him earlier this summer. He has done nothing for the club except cost them money. They will likely get around £7M for him next June. It is far from rosy in the Liverpool financial garden.}

28 Aug 2015 09:44:36
Ed02 - quick question from me. How do we compare with other premier league clubs? Are we all in a similar boat financially? Also, which clubs are operating a much more cost effective model?

Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - No - Liverpool are living well beyond their means - hence the massive debt. They are not self sufficient because of the transfer spending.}

28 Aug 2015 10:25:25
Do you think the owners will learn their lesson Ed? I really hope so I don't think there's any need for a transfer window like the last 2/3.

{Ed002's Note - I cannot possibly answer that - this might well be the final throw of the dice.}