Liverpool Banter Archive December 01 2015

01 Dec 2015 20:53:39
Another goal for Lukaku, many times better than Benteke
I'd have bought him 2 seasons ago but what do I know.

{Ed002's Note - Lukaku was not available for sale two years ago Chris. He was sold by Chelsea last summer due to what they considered to be a major issue that happened in the Winter.}

01 Dec 2015 21:20:34
Pretty sure Benteke hasn`t been that bad for us? sure his movement could be better, but he has scored 5 goals and 1 assist for us pretty good return for someone who was injured for a couple games stop bashing players for no reason.

01 Dec 2015 22:18:40
I remember Lukaku going through a bad patch last season. I don't think he's much better than Benteke to be honest.

01 Dec 2015 22:55:34
Haha. You try to make yourself sound clever, but in reality, your comment is just another example of MOTD fever and needless player bashing.

01 Dec 2015 23:33:41
My best mate is an Everton fan and he spends about half of his life moaning about Lukaku and how he wastes golden chances all the time etc. He swears Koné is the more rounded forward because of Lukaku's inconsistency. Easy to forget how young Benteke and Lukaku are though. Both still u25's.

01 Dec 2015 23:45:09
Don't think he's better than benteke at all to be honest.

02 Dec 2015 00:03:12
You wouldn't see lukaku score a overhead bicycle kick goal.

02 Dec 2015 00:48:28
to be honest i think Big ben is the better player. He is better technically for sure! the way he strikes the ball is very nice indeed. Not to say Lukaku isn't great but atm he's in better from the benteke that's all. Both good forwards imo, i prefer Big ben though.

02 Dec 2015 01:46:51
Benteke is a beast. Very different to any striker I've seen with LFC. And he's been good so far. And he is young. Will only improve with time.

I also fail to understand why players aren't given at least two full seasons to prove themselves?

02 Dec 2015 02:42:19
That Everton team has been playing to lukakus strengths for the last 2 years and he still went through some very dodgy periods of not only not scoring but also looking a terrible player ( he was dropped a few times if I recall) we have had Ben 5 minutes and he's done okay, still getting back to full fitness and we're still trying to figure out how best to use him. can't believe this pointless player bashing with someone who has started about 10 games for us ( and been scoring! ) like you said you would have bought Lukaku two years ago but being so fickle you probably would have sold him by now.

02 Dec 2015 10:14:10
Totally agree! It's his first season with is, he's had a couple of injury niggles and let's be fair, we haven't exactly been playing to his strengths. I think he'll be fantastic for us going forward.

02 Dec 2015 11:02:35
I'd take Lukaku every day over Benteke however I am seriously hoping Benteke proves me wrong I want him to be a huge success
I've been wrong about players before, although to be fair not very often
It's all about opinions boys after all Klopp disagrees with all of us about Mignolet.

02 Dec 2015 11:16:02
And after the last World Cup in which lukaku was useless and dropped by Belgium for our 4th choice striker Origi, what was your opinion then?

02 Dec 2015 12:08:51
They are both very good players. It's that simple.

01 Dec 2015 21:32:56
I'm not bashing anyone I'm saying there was a player available nearly 2 years ago who I would have bought who is better than several we have actually bought.

{Ed002's Note - He wasn't available 2 years ago Chris.}

02 Dec 2015 12:39:45
Swish, my opinion was as it often is Origi had a purple patch but little consistency I don't rate him very highly on the other hand Lukaku was in a poor spell but has shown consistently that he's got something (I'll admit he can still improve)
I told you all that the signing of Andy Carroll was poor because he was one dimensional and you all told me what a beast he was and how good he'd be for us
I'm not always right about a player but I'm not afraid to have an opinion and I'm not afraid to either back it up or admit if I've been wrong
Ive seen many come and go on here with smart mouths and limp arguments (mainly backed up by feeble statistics)
I support my team through thick and thin
I support the players on the park but I'm also entitled to say when I don't believe a player is Liverpool quality and boy have we had some of them recently and actually a few right now.
I like Klopp a lot and I'm right behind him especially after the last mug but he's got to improve the quality of the squad and I'm sure he'll do that
Ed001 has always disagreed with me about Lukaku and who's to say he won't be proved right in fact we've had some vociferous disagreements about many things but I don't think I've ever needed to be banned and that's because I respect his views and the views of others and I'm sick of the mealy mouthed "fan" who can only slag off anyone who has a different opinion to theirs.
It's banter, agree or disagree is fine but do it with some class.

02 Dec 2015 13:14:39
My point being that benteke has arguably been more consistent since he's been in the PL in a worse team. All players go through bad and good patches but lukaku has had more than most ( and been so bad he was dropped for an 18 year old in the World Cup) fair enough on Carroll, can't argue with that but hindsight is a wonderful thing. doesn't make you any better judge of player than anyone else, especially backing the likes of f lukaku over our own player when you talk about consistency yet the stats clearly back benteke as s he has a better goals to game ratio in the league - I don't call that feeble arguement. So what's your point to support your classy arguement 'many times better than benteke'?

02 Dec 2015 14:42:13
Typical Liverpool fans. Benteke almost scores a hat-trick against Bordeaux and now you want our rival's striker. Benteke is a beast of a player! Be happy we got him!

02 Dec 2015 17:06:23
I just don't get this at all - sorry Chris but to me it looks like you've just made a decision and that's now how you think. Fact is that they are both strikers and Benteke scores more often than Lukaku does over the time they've both been first choice strikers in the PL. You might enjoy Lukaku's style more so far or think he's more varied etc but the fact is that they are two players who can put the ball in the net and whose job is to do so, and Benteke does it more often. If you want to call that 'weak statistics' or whatever then that's your call.

However, as has been pointed out a couple of times, he was not available two years ago for anything other than a loan (which was not desirable for us for all sorts of reasons) . We also had both Suarez and Sturridge at the time (and he certainly wasnt better than either of them at the time) and had bought a third in Aspas who had a good La Liga record. He became available one year ago, for a fairly astronomical amount of money considering it coincided with half a season of form that saw him dropped to the bench during the WC for Belgium, and it would have been very difficult to justify spending that sort of cash on him.

I respect your opinion, but you're factually wrong on timelines and I don't see where the opinion side is coming from.

02 Dec 2015 19:12:52
Their goal scoring stats are actually almost identical I just think Lukaku has a better all round game
Sorry I forgot opinions on here are frowned upon unless they blindly support the majority feeling.

02 Dec 2015 19:47:35
Chris why not just hold your hand up and admit you talk utter bs with this one mate your point just has no substance at all, I just don't get were your coming from. Are you a closet blue nose hahahaha.

01 Dec 2015 18:29:07
Just listened to the podcast. Worth pointing out that the lack of flags on the Kop isn't due to a new ruling but a dispute between Spion Kop 1906 and the club. This stems from a supporter being banned by the club for abusing a disabled fan.

{Ed001's Note - actually I believe the dispute was initially started over issues with the league requiring flag carriers to be vetted or something. It then turned into a dispute with the club, who have been a bit heavy handed in their approach.}

01 Dec 2015 20:21:08
The man banned was a flag waver. He was subsequently banned from football grounds for 3 years I believe by the Magistrates Court.

01 Dec 2015 16:48:25
For tomorrow I'd like to see texiera and bogdan given games. If rossiter is fit and match day ready I'd like to see him as well. Whilst keeping it as close to the first team as possible. These are 3 players that deserve their chances, especially texiera.

01 Dec 2015 17:50:02
Bogdan will start.

I'm with you, I'd like to see Teixeira brought in, though I wouldn't want to start with many other youngsters. Perhaps some on the bench. By bringing 1 or 2 fringe/youth players in at a time (rather than wholesale changes a la BR) you maintain the 'team' feeling.

Looking forward to the match, will be a tough game no doubt, but every faith we'll progress and maintain the momentum we have.

01 Dec 2015 17:29:50
Apparently Klopp has come out and said he would field the strongest possible teams and I don't think you would see too many changes apart from Coutinho coming in.

01 Dec 2015 20:17:50
and Lucas of course!

02 Dec 2015 01:20:04
He's trying to win a trophy hence, he will field a strong enuff side because City, Everton, n indeed Southampton did n will not field weakened sides.

01 Dec 2015 11:17:19
I very much doubt there will be any transfer ins as we currently stand in jan. I expect Klopp to be buying in the summer of next year where FSG will back him and hopefully he will achieve a CL spot.

01 Dec 2015 12:33:19
He said in the interview about no goalkeepers coming in. I know he's not going to say yeah mignolets crap, but I think he means it at the moment.

01 Dec 2015 12:47:09
He can acheive that this season! We don't need to buy. Flanagan and Sakho are back soon, Henderson and Sturridge just returned. soon we will have a fully fit squad bar Joe Gomez and Danny Ings. let klopp work with that first. We also have many players coming back from loan who klopp would like to have a look at before spending money, Markovic, Ojo, Kent, Wisdom, Ward, Canos etc.

01 Dec 2015 16:31:03
First time I've thought to myself regarding Klopp "what the . is he on about? "
He said we have plenty of high quality goalkeepers and there is nothing to criticise Migs about since he's been here.
Ok he must have been watching a different game last Thursday then. From my viewpoint he kept hold of the ball for 21 seconds, gave away an indirect freekick which resulted in us letting in the first goal. I would say that is worthy of criticism. We don't have any "high quality goalkeepers".

If he'd said "there is no story I'm not looking for another goal keeper" then fine, that's reasonable and kills the story.

We will never have a decent defence with this keeper.

01 Dec 2015 16:59:54
Probably trying the arm round the shoulder approach with migs. definitely don't see him as a player who would react well to a public slating. agree with Ron's sentiments for the most but maybe klopp just felt he needed a bit of public support for his confidence.

01 Dec 2015 17:02:57
Ron maybe he is trying to install confidence into his players, I don't see a problem in that.

01 Dec 2015 17:14:06
Ever since Klopp's come in people have been predicting what player's he's likely to drop, I think most of us will be forced to eat our words.

01 Dec 2015 18:51:51
Why dent someone's confidence that's already not 100%?
The chances of us landing a new keeper are very slim so in my mind there's only one way to approach the situation.

Whilst I am no fan of Migs, denting his confidence even more would be disasterous for us, there's a lot a lot of football to be played between now and the end of the season

I'm sure behind closed doors, Klopp has pulled Migs up for his errors and is trying to turn any negatives into positives!

01 Dec 2015 20:01:37
Just don't see the need to tell everyone how we have plenty of high quality goalkeepers and how Migs is one of the smartest keepers he's ever had.

Makes me worry about his judgement.

01 Dec 2015 20:33:12
We need a better goal keeper. The teams that win the premier league always have a half decent keeper.
Migs isn't even top 7 in the prem.

{Ed002's Note - I have explained over and over about this. Again, to placate the fans, maybe Klopp is lying or perhaps he will change his mind in the summer - but regardless, January is a time when goalkeeps (as we now call them) are much less likely to move.}

01 Dec 2015 22:52:00
The man is a master of man management. Absolute perfect man for the role, the way he looks at things in football are so outside the narrow minded, short tempered idiotic lenses of many english fans, coaches and the press.

His quote about how the english love transfers but he prefers training. that's so true you might as well get a tapestry of it.

All these lads (even mignolet) have all made it to the top league one way or another. They can't be that bad. Put them in just one division lower and they will look world class.

So despite what us know-it-all fans say, these lads have ability. Klopp sees them in training, he knows what they can do. If you can't make subtle tweaks to a players game, and get them to stop making mistakes, you are a bad coach, eg rodgers. He clearly was incapable of improving a lot of these players. Klopp is. His track record is one of taking nobodies to the top of the game.

As awful as players like mignolet and skrtel are in my opinion, i'll follow the man to the end with his judgement on players. He has been there and done it, and knows way more than we do.

02 Dec 2015 01:28:32
Ron, what do you expect him to say vis a vis Mingo? Call him names and stupidly bench him indefinitely before bringing him back like you know who did? Nonsense! He knows he needs Mingo to be on top of his game because like it or not, he's all we have till the summer when Klopp can reevaluate the situation. Chill out, men. The man knows best so let him work.

02 Dec 2015 04:38:07
Or maybe, a Manager/Coach that has knowledge and an eye for tallent, really does Migs is talented and smart? And maybe, he has identified faults (like holding the ball too long) and knows he can rectify it. Maybe, this Manager/Coach knows that he can actually coach and manage players, so he can actually improve and get the best out of them.

02 Dec 2015 10:59:00
Ohio, I mentioned in my post what I expected him to say.
- "there's no story and I'm not looking to sign a new keeper"

Kills the story stone dead without blowing smoke up Mig's hole and making up things like "we have plenty of high quality keepers"
Absolute nonsense and worrying.

02 Dec 2015 12:04:16
I've been a massive critic of Migs so imagine my surprise to hear that he's kept more clean sheets in 2015 than any other PL keeper. I may have to eat my own words soon 😖.

01 Dec 2015 06:32:10
Everyone says 'hope the kids get a chance tmr'.

I actually hope we play the strongest team possible. I mean, we're 4 games away from a trophy. How about let's give ourselves the best possible chance of bagging a cup.

Some kids can get a run out from the bench late on if things are going well maybe?

But for me, Allen is surplus. Don't think he offers a lot more than, say, Rossiter or Chiv .

01 Dec 2015 08:04:43
SingaporeRed - we hope the kids get a chance because every time they have gotten a chance, they have shown they were up for it and were worth their chance. Not just cause they are kids and you play the kids in the cups.

And no, they will not get more from the bench, or from playing when things are secure and the rest of the team has become a little less expansive and stopped taking chances. That is just nonsense, you might as well be saying they will get just as much from watching in the stands. They will get the most out of full match experience.

01 Dec 2015 08:14:37
Last time I checked it's 3 games, tomorrow QF, then semi final, then final. But agree with allen, I don't think he is long term future, much rather get the kids game time where possible.

01 Dec 2015 08:37:50
If I was manager the wya I would look at it is always on the previous game.

Would Tex really offer any less than firmino did?

Would bogdan offer less than migs

Would rossiter offer so much less than Milner

Would origi offer less than Lallana

Not that the above are bad players lr they played badly but during that game on Sunday I just wouldn't see the above being unable to offer what they did.

That's how you should pick the young or younger players.

01 Dec 2015 08:39:49
But then why aren't the kids good enough to play first team football?
Should be training with the the 1st team and being coached under Klopp. No reason why they shouldn't play and be capable of putting in the performance to win the match.

01 Dec 2015 08:44:15
The semi final has two legs.

01 Dec 2015 10:19:21
I think out out a strong team with a couple youths in. We have enough forwards to rotate them, but maybe a full back and tex or something.

01 Dec 2015 10:42:51
Guys,
Klopp sees these guys everyday and still doesn't pick them.
Now either you trust the manager that we all wanted or you don't.

He picks the team he thinks will get the results and he's done very well up to now.

So let him do his job and stop whinging about kids not getting picked, he'll pick them if he thinks they're ready.

{Ed001's Note - is it whinging or making a suggestion? What you have put is more of a whinge than most of what you call whinging! If you don't want to discuss the club, then you are best not coming on to a discussion forum and avoiding the internet in general....}

01 Dec 2015 10:45:32
the thing is tho if we lose, klopp will get blamed for putting the kids out there and not taking the cup seriously.

01 Dec 2015 08:55:43
Paul96, that's certainly not the way to pick a team, The couple of young players you have mentioned occupies two most important positions in the team The spine of the team, CM and DM. You just cannot go and pick the best U21 player.

Rossitter is the only player I would give a chance to play in the first team.

01 Dec 2015 12:00:15
Well said Ed001!

01 Dec 2015 12:37:30
EG to be fair to Paulo he said tex for firmino so that's not cm, I don't think rossiter would start but if he did start with Lucas and tex lallana and Ibe as the attacking three, I don't think we'd get destroyed through the middle. It's not like he's just putting in two completely new players in centre mid together who have never played before.

01 Dec 2015 12:43:51
Rossiter and tex I agree put them in. Lallana certainly offers more than Origi, and leads by example as well with his work ethic, not to mention He's good at the edge of the 18 in my opinion, and converts his chances on goal well. Bogdan sure play him, I don't think Migs has done terribly, I think people are just finding that 6 second rule as a reason to jump on his case again, as I said before they did it with Jones and Jones was even worse hen he finally played. Bogdan has been competent in the cup, but I see no difference in what he offers to migs.

We could look to play randall again, and brannagan and put sinclair/origi on the bench.

01 Dec 2015 12:51:25
I was referring to Chira and Ross fancy. You just cannot pick players on the their performance in U21. you have to ease them slowly unless they are an Owen or Gerrard.

And yes, I would swap Tex for Lallana. If Tex could score goals then I am more than happy to drop Lallana.

01 Dec 2015 13:52:13
When do you ease them in the Harry if not in cup games?

01 Dec 2015 14:46:47
Knightyred who fells a bit silly now lad the fella is right qf to nite sf home and away and final that makes 4 games. You owe the guy an apology lol.

01 Dec 2015 14:57:18
I think Klopp has this right. Pick mostly your best team and rotate in juniors on a selected basis to allow key players to get a rest through the season.

We know he wants to bring youth through, but he needs to do it when the player fits the game strategy, and will benefit them and the overall team in the long term.

I'm happy to let him be the judge of that given he's actually turning up to watch them.

01 Dec 2015 15:01:27
I think there's a lot of whinging ed and that's my opinion which I'm allowed otherwise ban me.
Everyone wanted Klopp now he's here and picking players to get results. If he sticks in youth and they don't perform this site will go crazy for playing them.
Why not let the manager do his job and get confidence in for the players he does pick because after the last year we need to rebuild team confidence, plenty of players learned their trade coming on as subs.

{Ed001's Note - sounds like you are just whinging. No one is whinging about the youngsters, they just want to see them, that is not whinging, it is hoping. The whinging is coming from the likes of you about people giving an opinion, because you don't like it. Just because the manager is doing his job his way, does not mean people should not give other options for him to look at. Look up why the leaders in history used naysayers and learn something.}

01 Dec 2015 15:44:16
Anyone know if Rossiter is fit? Would like to see him get some minutes preferably.

01 Dec 2015 16:02:00
He played for u21s so busy getting back to full fitness. I am looking forward to him getting back.

01 Dec 2015 16:09:18
Im fed up of the wet lettuce handshake teams that we put out in the cups under rodgers, it was disrespectful and pathetic.

However, the kids last time around showed they could play. i'd like to see teixeira start and maybe brannagan. Other than that same as usual.

01 Dec 2015 16:54:42
Well EG then again you should apologise to Paulo because he didn't even mention chiravella, he said origi bogdan rossiter and tex. Only one cm there still.

02 Dec 2015 01:02:00
I think Tex would be up for it.

I want to see the youngsters get a game at somepoint but i want the best chance of winning tomorrow. Klopp knows what he's doing so i'm sure he will make the right move.

I think one thing to bear in mind is even technically the younger lads are up for it, Mentally they might not be as strong. Ibe really went downhill start of this season, he couldn't get past someone to save his life and we know he's got bags of ability where as know he's transformed! So also have to make sure if they are playing well at their level, introduce them at the right time!

02 Dec 2015 08:46:27
Mentally the youngsters might not be as strong. Unlike Lovren who couldn't wrap his head around his role for over a year? Unlike Milner who managed to get himself a suspension for 5 yellows within the first quarter of the season due entirely to him making stupid challenges/revenge? Unlike Mingolet who gave away an indirect free kick (and ultimately goal) for timewasting whilst we were on top, and drawing, with just 30 minutes gone? Lallana who has been pretty good recently but I can't remember the last decent final ball he delivered? Those mentally strong older players? Another poorly thought through argument on how waiting around and not playing youngsters will magically get them ready for senior roles.